La Niña

Sara, post your question on the Pennsylvania board - you might get better response.

Once again, I made some very good martinis this weekend. I used a 3 to 1 ratio - Tanqueray (not "10"). Yum.

I spoke to Mario and several of his team (two of those present were Italian) last Tuesday. Originally, they wanted to do something very similar to "carta da musica," or Sardinian flat bread. It failed. It was too dry, too cracker-y, and didn't work with toppings. So they modified it and made it a bit more moist, a bit thicker, etc. (god knows what it was like when they first did it - a piece of wood?) I asked what it was similar to now, and they said "nothing." That it's Otto's style of "pizza alla piastra" - which means pizza on steel, aka grill. I asked whether it had anything to do with Neopolitan pizza verace...and they said absolutely not. It is now a unique Otto creation. They described it as similar to the food in their other restaurants - Italian style with their own take on it. There's a description of this approach on the Babbo website: http://www.babbonyc.com/vision.html That being said, some more words on the pizza - I have been to Otto 3 times. The last time, when I was with an egullet group on Friday, the center was markedly soggier when it arrived at the table. When I picked up a piece, the corner even flopped over. But the several inches starting from the edge arrived hard, with an unpleasant texture. And moments after it arrived, the whole crust turned similarly hard. Once again, I tried the crust plain on each pie, and found the crust utterly tasteless, odorless, and tough. At one point I attempted to cut a piece off with a fork and a knife, and I had to saw and saw just to get the knife through (and this was not at the edge). Blech. Also, a definition. Pizza Margherita was named for Queen Margherita, wife of Italy's King Umberto I, who was known for her very sensitive palate as well as her patriotism. It contains mozzarella (and no other cheese), plain tomato sauce, and basil, with some olive oil, on a crust. The colors of the Italian flag - white, red, and green. That's it. So the Otto margherita is that, but DiFara's makes no such thing. Even if one were to ask for such a thing, his sauce isn't plain. Some words on the Otto service: although I have been made aware of the existence of coat room by other people - all three times when I came in, nobody offered to check my coat or take my bags or any such thing. The wine service is comical (see Robert Nesta Marley's comments on this thread). They did change their policy about handing people a dessert menu (they refused to do so on my first visit, saying that "they" didn't like them to do that, rather, they preferred to give a verbal list). I overheard another table ask their waitress what bufala mozzarella was, and instead of knowing the answer (it's made from buffalo milk), she said "well it just means the finest mozzarella." The service is somewhat haphazard and full of glitches. The gelati remain superb.

I made all kinds of open-faced grilled cheese things this morning with leftover bread of various kinds. We went to Fairway on the way home last night and bought gruyere, mozzarella, bleu cheese, ham, tomatoes, basil, etc, etc. We made lots of combinations - some with butter, some with olive oil, some with garlic, and with many combinations of the stuff we bought...delicious. Thanks to everyone!

When you get to El Manara, please do try one of their lamb and/or beef sandwiches in addition. And go across the street and down a bit to Laziza, and have some pastry.

I disagree. Think about the variability in intensity of sensual pleasure. It's completely subjective.

I assure you that both Steve and jaybee, with all their differences and similarities, are among the most charming dining companions one could hope to have.

Actually, it might be genetic and closely related to the initial dislike of Cilantro (which is easier to overcome), so it probably is your probelm. But I love cilantro! In all its forms!

Flushing, baby, Flushing!

Are you going to try other food at these places besides chicken schwarma?

I don't like anise, ouzo, black licorice, sambuca, etc. I do think something is wrong with that. I'm sorry I don't like them. I can't help it, hard as I try over and over again - but I do think it's my problem.

I don't purport to be some kind of Chinese food maven. I'm not, not by a long shot. But I've had good meals in the recent past at Congee (on the Bowery), Yeah Shanghai Deluxe, Spicy & Tasty, New Green Bo, Joe's Shanghai, David's Taiwanese, Tangra Masala...and a lousy meal at Ping's on Mott St.

What a great list! Can't wait to read the reports...

If that's the case, why did you choose Congee Village for the eGullet banquet? Because it's fun, accomodates a big group, has private rooms, is reasonably priced, and the food was decent, and they serve some unusual things. I never claimed that the food was spectacular, or the best of its category. But some of the highlights of the comments after that banquet: "The food: I enjoyed both the congees, the squid being perhaps slightly more flavorful. The duck tongues were extremely well-flavored but had a high proportion of gristle to meat and were therefore hard word... A couple of cold dishes were actually very interesting. Jellyfish salad, with the flesh cut much more thickly than I've seen before - like really fat noodles - and served slightly spicy; the boned chicken feet, like little three-fingered rubber gloves, were good too. I thought the whole fish was a little overcooked and bland. The squab, when we got to them, were great: crisply cooked to a deep mahogany color, and served...with the head. I particularly liked the tender flesh around the neck. There were about a dozen more dishes. It was an exceptionally large quantity of food for $40, and mostly of a very satisfactory standard." "The food was excellent, especially the duck tongues, the chicken feet, the jellyfish and the goose intestine." "The food was good to excellent. I particularly liked the ducks tongue, the McChicken feet and the shrimp with mayo."

"Pizza," or Sardinian flat bread or that carta da musica thing or....? And then why did FG say this: "That's why I've basically ignored the published claims regarding what Otto is trying to serve. What comes out on the plate is clearly something that's striving to be a Verace Pizza-style DOC-type thing." What did Mario say, exactly?

FG, I have not had pizza in Sardinia, but I have had variations on pane carasau -- e.g. pane frattau where they turn the flatbread layers back into a kind of lasagne, by dipping them in salted water and then layering them with tomato sauce, cheese and finishing with an egg. It tastes much better than it sounds. Pane carasau -- if that is what Otto are serving -- would not work well for pizza. It is too thin and crisp to hold topping ingredients. In any event it is not made on a griddle, but in a woodburning oven much like a pizza oven. I have seen griddle breads called, I think, piadine. But these are Roman. And they taste nothing like a pizza. Jonathan, I think we're in agreement about the definitions here. That's why I've basically ignored the published claims regarding what Otto is trying to serve. What comes out on the plate is clearly something that's striving to be a Verace Pizza-style DOC-type thing. Can somebody please check with Mario or one of the team members and get a real answer?

Woah! Please report what you see!

We had an egullet banquet at Congee Village a couple of months ago - there's a long thread about it. I've been several times since then - I really think it's not as good as it used to be (not that it was ever *that* good, mind you).

It's not open yet, so no definitive information on the pricing. I can't wait. Right in my 'hood!

Taste in the crust? You found taste in the crust? I've had lots of pizza in northern Italy - the areas closest to Switzerland actually - and I love the thin crusts there. This was nothing like it. It's not even baked in an oven.

What I mean is that Neapolitan or Sardinian or whatever-the-hell crust he's trying to emulate is supposed to have many of the characteristics that people seem to be complaining about. But more importantly the crust simply does not stink. I just can't see how anybody could take that position. It's not a great crust. That doesn't mean it stinks. There's no need to portray it as an extreme situation. It's not. Who cares if he's emulating characteristics? That doesn't mean it's good - even if he's emulating them well, it just means he's trying to emulate something bad. Again, a culinary error. I think the crust does stink. Tasteless, bland, lousy texture, uninteresting, flat, boring, no salt - it's like somebody threw some flour and water together - no kidding, this is what the Israelites carried out of Egypt.

FG, what do you mean by "decent technical showing in that regard?" If the crust stinks, which it does, how is it in any way "decent" pizza?

I have enjoyed meals at Kang Suh - the staff tried to be nice - but man, it is SO rushed that I will NEVER go back during a peak time (weekend dinner). Really unpleasant.

I don't know. I have such mixed feelings on this subject. But I"ll say this - after eating that disaster they call a "pizza" today at Otto - anybody who likes it is wrong. Just wrong.

Let's not forget the desserts. Among the four of us, we had the berries and cream (as Steve mentioned), hazelnut & chocolate palatchinken, farmer cheese strudel, and linzertorte. All mit shlag, of course. They were all good, albeit falsely described on the menu. The "strudel," although very nice, had no dough - it was basically a baked cheese custard. The palatchinken were not "chocolate hazelnut" - they were filled with hazelnuts and dribbled with chocolate sauce. The linzertorte had not enough rasberry jam, and too much allspice. They did bring us over glasses of eau de vie on the house. My main course was zwiebelrostbraten, which was nicely done (rare), covered with crispy fried onions and roasted cippolinis. The liver terrine came with a lovely compote. The shnitzel was well done, too - although the accompanying cucumber salad was a bit mild for my taste. Spaetzle was very nicely done - good texture, good taste - very authentic. All in all, a very satisfying meal, and a nice atmosphere - and aside from the misunderstanding about corkage, reasonably priced for what it is. I'll definitely go back and work my way through more of the menu.