Todd in Chicago
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Posts posted by Todd in Chicago
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Well boom-chaka-laka....
My copy has landed!
Well it looks like perhaps the price went up. If I remember correctly, I put in my pre-order the day it was announced and available for pre-order at Amazon (US). I paid $89 from Amazon and now the price at Amazon is $103. Wow....
My opinion, this book probably has a limited market. Who would buy this book?
So depending on the price you got, it's roughly $90 - $104. The book really is a coffee table book of pictures with pretty much no text. Some double-page spreads. So who would buy this book? Would someone who likes food photography buy this book? Maybe.
Would someone who wants to learn how to take great food photography pictures buy this book? If they did, they would probably be disappointed for $90-$104 since it's really a picture book with a few pages at the end about high-level equipment and techniques. And remember what most of the pictures in modernist cuisine look like, they are not your typical plated dish pics, but rather extraordinary pictures of ingredients and equipment.
So who would buy this book?
Someone like me. :-) I guess I'm a collector. I have 1 of the first 500 copies of Modernist Cuisine shipped to the states, and probably the same for Modernist Cuisine at home. I'm guessing also probably of this photography book. Funny thing is, I put in my pre-order of Modernist Cuisine when I didn't even have a job, hoping that I would get one before it shipped, or I would have to cancel. I was a believer. Lucky for me it worked out.
I have no qualms about getting this book; because I really enjoyed what Nathan did with Modernist Cuisine and the follow-up of Modernist Cuisine at Home. I also enjoy photography, and in particular food photography, or probably more appropriately, pictures of food!
The book is full of really great pictures of the pictures you have seen and would expect to see in Modernist Cuisine, and I think two others (and iceberg and a modernist building). The last 15 or so pages is devoted to equipment and how they created some of these pictures. Granted, some of these techniques may be in some other food photography books, but remember when you are a millionaire or billionaire, you may be able to do things a wee bit differently.
One thing that really surprised me was the size of the actual book. This mutha is BIG and heavy! When I retrieved the package from our doorman, it was the size of a smaller carry on luggage! Granted of course the crazy amount of packing and materials. Seriously, if you are considering purchasing, review the dimensions, it is much larger than the other books. This is perhaps the biggest book I have ever seen and is absolutely the biggest book we own, regardless of content. It's silly large.
Overall, I'm glad to have it in my collection. If you love the photographs in the Modernist Cuisine books, well then you'll probably love this book. Food porn for a large coffee table. I give it two thumbs up, but as I mentioned I think this has a limited market, but I'm in that demographic.
I bought this book because I'm a believer.
YMMV....
Todd in Chicago
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Well, I should be able to shed some light on this, my expected arrival date is 10/1/13.
:-)
Todd in Chicago
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Todd (or anyone else) -
Would you comment on the quality of the reheated food, particularly highly seasoned food? I am having a cinco de Mayo party with barbacoa, chile con carne, cochinita pibil, etc. I would love (and my wife would love) being able to spread the prep over weeks instead of a few days. I tend to use a lot of curse words and become a bit maniacal. I've heard salt might be an issue, but not from a trusted source. It would be great to have everything ready and taste tested beforehand.
Just to be clear, very little of the food will be cooked sous vide, just reheated sous vide. In fact, if this works, I might be motivated to cook more outside than I would otherwise.
Ttogull....
If you look in my "Meal Planner" report above, the following items have been cooked traditionally and were then vac-sealed for freezer storage:
Sauce
Kung Pao
Masala
Pesto
Poblano Mole
Soup
Coconut Curry Squash
Marmite Consomme
I can tell you that I've not had any problems with those items. I think as long as you can vac-seal your items, and it is not an extended period of time, I think you'll be just fine. For sous vide cooked items, I believe you can freeze them for longer periods of time. I've had a beef tenderloin that was cooked for a year before we ate it, and you wouldn't have known the difference between that one and one that had been frozen for just a few days.
If you are worried about the salt in particular, maybe you can salt lightly while cooking and add additional seasoning before serving.
Anyone else care to chime in for Bonkboo?
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Bonkboo....
Probably about 95% of my sous vide cooking is done exactly this way; meaning I cook quantities of items and freeze for reheating later. My "go to" reheat temp is 130 F. I typically find that putting pretty much anything in at 130 for about 30 mins will reheat the food through, particularly if adding some additional finishing such as searing (blowtorch, pan, grill, etc.). The only exception is if for some reason I've originally cooked something at a temp LESS than 130 F. Obviously, I only want to reheat AT or LESS THAN the original cooking temperature, or more appropriately the original CORE temperature that I sought to achieve with the original keeping.
There are additional problems that arise from this technique however; such as in my freezer I currently have approximately 120 bags of frozen items! Yikes! You may ask, "How can I keep track of all this "stuff"?".
;-) Easy! Myself and a fellow eGulleteer (BHSimon, programmer extraordinaire) created a website to do exactly that! It's called ModernistCookingDB. Not only that, but one of my favorite uses of the site is what we call the "Meal Planner" report. This is something your wife can use to see what your current inventory in your freezer is, and pick and match items to put together a meal. Attached is my current "Meal Planner" report. Of course note that each item you see is already completely cooked and just needs to be reheated (which I accomplish via the method I described above). The nice thing about reheating is that even if I'm going to reheat items that were originally cooked at different temps, for example a beef tenderloin originally cooked at 130, and some beets originally cooked at 180, the reheat temp is the same for BOTH items since you are not cooking, but only reheating. So I can put in the beets, some carrots, the steak, and a bag of demi-glace and reheat all at the same temp. Darned convenient!! :-)
Cheers....
Todd in Chicago
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Announcing open free registration to the Modernist Cooking DB site!
A short time ago, we announced a request for pilot users for a new website we created to track your sous vide efforts and your freezer inventory. We had several pilot users and fixed some bugs along the way, as well as adding some great features. Thank you to our great pilot users who inspired those additional features and helped find the bugs. The pilot period is now over and registration is now open for anyone. The site is free, and we hope that you enjoy it as much as we do.
The site is: www.modernistcookingdb.com
You can create your own login on the site, or use your credentials from one of six popular social networking sites, including Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Google.
Todd: Both login methods appear to be broken; I get a 500 Internal Server Error.
Jmasur....
Thank you for reporting this, and our webmaster will review this as soon as possible.
Please, anyone that is reporting problems for the site, please send an email to: webmaster@modernistcookingdb.com
Fellow eGulleteers, eGullet was kind enough to let us post about our site here, and I really want to make sure that we respect the purpose of this site and want to make sure that "support" is not handled here. Please do feel free to post about how this site helps you as it relates to the topic "Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques, and Equipment 2013", but for answers to questions or for support, please do use the webmaster@modernistcookingdb.com address. Once again, asking this out of respect for our community, which I'm so grateful that eGullet provides that.
Jmasur, thanks again, and we'll have the site back up and running as soon as possible.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Thanks so much for the awesome responses, extremely informative. After giving it some thought and consulting with the wife, I think I'm going to have to eliminate the eiPOT and SVS from the running. My wife took one look at the eiPOT setup in some of the pictures and almost immediately vetoed that option. I decided against the SVS as I think I'd prefer a circulator type device instead of relying solely on convection. The two I'm going back and forth between now is the PolyScience Creative model that is available from William-Sonoma and the soon (hopefully) to be released Nomiku. I know it's hard to compare the two since the Nomiku isn't out yet, but I was hoping some of the sous vide experts here could give me their thoughts on how it would compare to the PolyScience based on what we know so far.
Seannymurrs....
I know you have ruled out the SVS, but I'll give my .02 anyway. At time, the higher priced units were not an option for me, and to be quite honest, I don't think there were that many options about 2 1/2 years ago when I got my SVS. Note, I do not have the demo but the full model (demi came out later). I'm glad I have the full model as when I cook, I normally in "batches" and want all the space I can get.
My SVS is permanently out on the countertop, due to it's looks this is acceptable with SWMBO. Even though I would LOVE to have a Pol Sci pro, there will be no lexan tubs sitting around in my kitchen!
In the 2 and 1/2 years I've had the unit, I've never had a problem with losing water due to evap (keep the lid on with the mat on top) and it.....just works. It may not be as accurate as some of the other models, and may only rely on convection (which isn't the best), but I can keep it on the counter and I'll tell you....it is ON way more than it is OFF. For as much as I use it....or just keep it on (sssshhhh), I'm surprised it hasn't croaked yet.
Anyway, as Enrique noted, you need to take into your decision all of the things that are important to you. For my wife, especially when I mentioned you cook things for days sometimes, this (the SVS) was the only acceptable answer.
And although not as easy as some of the other units, I have traveled to friends and family houses and have brought it without any problems, obviously not as convenient. I'm a big fan of the SVS.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Fellow eGullet members and sous vide enthusiasts…
During a conversation under the “Labels” topic that was started by Chris Hennes on July 10, 2010, I (from the USA) posted a question on November 25, 2012 about what labels or label printers would be a good fit for labeling bags for the sous vide technique, as my freezer was full of sous vide bags that had haphazard labeling, if there was any labeling at all. Check out the post for a chuckle if you'd like.
I also made a comment that I was thinking of writing a database to keep track of the bags in my freezer as well as my cooking attempts. Well someone from “down under” (BHSimon) posted a reply who was also very keen in the same thing, but doing it online so that other eGullet members could take advantage of it – and after a few PM’s and then emails, a plan was hatched to create a web-based tool that would do just that.
Over the past month and a half or so, BHSimon and Todd in Chicago have collaborated to create this web-based tool.
We have been working diligently on this program and are very proud of it and think this is a great way for us to give back to the eGullet community which has provided so much to both of us in terms of learning and conversing with our fellow sous vide enthusiasts. The site we are working on is now ready for pilot, and we are looking for 5 pilot users to “kick the tires” if you will, and see what falls out. As soon as the kinks are worked out, we would open registration for anyone who is interested.
I personally have been using this since it was first in some usable state, and it is PERFECT for me! BHSimon also shares the passion for the program and we are super excited about it.
If you are interested, please send an email to webmaster@modernistcookingdb.com and request to be added to the pilot list. At this point we are restricting registration to the first 5 users who would like to be in the pilot. Although we are mostly looking for “defects” in the current program, please provide any input or requests which you think would make the program useful. All requests will be evaluated for feasibility for future implementation. If you apply to pilot, you will receive within 48 hours an email back indicating that you are free to register.
We hope that you enjoy the program and find it as useful as we do!
Thanks, best wishes, and happy sous viding!
Todd in Chicago and BHSimon
Fellow eGullet members and sous vide enthusiasts,
Announcing open free registration to the Modernist Cooking DB site!
A short time ago, we announced a request for pilot users for a new website we created to track your sous vide efforts and your freezer inventory. We had several pilot users and fixed some bugs along the way, as well as adding some great features. Thank you to our great pilot users who inspired those additional features and helped find the bugs. The pilot period is now over and registration is now open for anyone. The site is free, and we hope that you enjoy it as much as we do.
The site is: www.modernistcookingdb.com
You can create your own login on the site, or use your credentials from one of six popular social networking sites, including Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Google.
We, in conjunction with our pilot users, have logged many of our attempts at sous vide, or even just items we needed to track in our freezer into the website. As a matter of fact, over 200 items and counting have been entered thus far! In the end, this can produce a large number of experimental times and temps to choose from, and hopefully can provide a wealth of knowledge for our fellow eGullet-eers and sous vide enthusiasts.
When checking out the site, we encourage you to explore the links along the top of the page before you register. The Diary, Reports, Printer, and Security choices will guide you through what this site can accomplish, as well as how we value your privacy.
Simon and I are proud to offer this site back to the eGullet community which has immensely helped both of us, and many others as well.
Cheers!
“Todd in Chicago” and “BhSimon”
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I will tell you a great winner is Instant Sous Vide Hollandaise, I just used my last pouch this past weekend. The sauce was 2 months old.
At what stage did you store it? I am presuming frozen?
PK
PK....
I completely made the sauce and then portioned it into smaller bags and sealed and froze.
Here is the Crab eggs benedict it was used on.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
So you made the sauce including the foaming in teh iSi? or up to that point and then froze?
Did you iSi it after you defrosted or just warm and put into the eggs?
thanks
Rotuts....at first I thought you were just referring to some yummy tasting food....but now I think otherwise! LOL! My wife picked up on it right away...she's a keeper that one! ;-)
JMolinari....
Oops...yeah...forgot about that. Made it up to the point BEFORE putting in siphon, and didn't bother using the siphon....just used as good ol' hollandaise sauce. I love having this stuff in the freezer as it tends to save a lot of trouble unless you happen to have all the ingredients in your fridge already.
I think my inventory in my freezer shows one left, so I'll need to make another batch.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Anybody have an opinion on the Fish McBites?
Ok...guilty pleasure, but I'm not alone here, love the FOF, and the DFOF, but I was not too keen on the fish bites that I tried. I only got them once, and wouldn't get them again. Couldn't really put my finger on it, but think I just like the texture of the FOF with the soft bun and the cheese so much better.
Also, as far as the "crooked" fish on the bun, I swear, I receive mine like that all the time! I wonder it they actually are instructed to make it that way! Any Mickey D insiders here that can share the secret? ;-)
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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should you do this again, I and others would love to see some pics!
Gracias.
LOL! Forget the camera, come on over to Chicago and give the class!! :-)
Todd in Chicago
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I will tell you a great winner is Instant Sous Vide Hollandaise, I just used my last pouch this past weekend. The sauce was 2 months old.
At what stage did you store it? I am presuming frozen?
PK
PK....
I completely made the sauce and then portioned it into smaller bags and sealed and froze.
Here is the Crab eggs benedict it was used on.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago -
Team....
I also FINALLY made the olive oil poached salmon over smashed potatoes with bois boudran sauce. We liked it, and would have it again (which is a good thing since I have enough for 3 more dinners (saucewise)), but I fudged the potatoes which came out without enough texture and a darker color. There were still pretty good, but I know what I did wrong.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Well my friend, I'll let you know as I went full bore! The thing is, is that most of that is recovered. I think the original amount is something like 7.5 sticks of butter here in the US, and from what I recovered as SOLIDIFIED on the top, I weighed and found only about 1.5 sticks as "missing". I fully believe that those went in the can with the used veggies. I plan on clarifying this evening, so will let everyone know!Hi Todd, it was good but not great, to our taste. I made some research and the 750 g seem to be good amount, it's not a typo. So likely the taste profile changed with the lower amount of butter....
Cheers...
Todd in ChicagoI made the Marmite consommé a few weeks ago. Just had some over the weekend, and it was good. Very funny the stunning amount of vegetables that goes into making so very few portions.
We did like it, and kind of what Heston said, can be used as a substitute for Beef Broth, which is what it tasted like! A good complex one though. I served it with enoki mushrooms and sliced scallions.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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That lamb looks wonderful. Can't wait to get my replacement SideKIC to try this
Yes it does. Here is my version that I did for Valentine's dinner. i used a New Zealand rack from Restaurant Depot. The rack was given a dose of salt, pepper and garlic powder, bagged, SV at 53C for 3 hours, then seared, coated with honey and mustard and herbed bread crumbs per Thomas Keller's Ad Hoc at Home and finished for 10 minutes in a 220C (425F) oven. The sweet potato was cut in half, coated with EVO and roasted cut side down for 30 minutes in the same oven. The bok choy was cut in half, seared cut cut side down with some garlic slivers in some canola oil and then covered and steamed in the same pan with a half cup of chicken stock.
I like my meats rare and have found that 53C is just right for red meats.
Nice!
I like the Thomas Keller treatment after the sous vide. I'll have to try that.
Todd in Chicago
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For people who have made the sauces: how well do they hold up after freezing, the book says they hold up for 6 months? I've been making them with the dish but the extra 30-45 min of the simpler sauces is taking away from the main course, as well as having to use my pressure cooker or sous-vide set up and then use it again.
So:
If you've frozen your sauce and then reheated it, how did it turn out, how long did you have it frozen for?
I will tell you a great winner is Instant Sous Vide Hollandaise, I just used my last pouch this past weekend. The sauce was 2 months old.
A winner.
Todd in Chicago
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PedroG....
Thanks for the temp/time as in http://egullet.org/p1898461 , had those on Saturday night and they were indeed as succulent as you have said! Thanks for the temp/time combination you posted on eGullent and on modernist cooking db - 03:30 @ 55.0°C / 131°F. I COMPLETELY agree with you, a reproducible success!
PedroG style (temp/time) lamb chops with a demi-glace wine reduction, golden beets with blue goat cheese, and vadouvan curry carrots. A great Sat night meal!
Thanks PedroG!
Todd in Chicago
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Green asparagus, quite thin. Yeah, I saw the MC recommendation for 15 minutes after I finished cooking them. KennethT (above) cooked them for 8 minutes with success.
I don't mind them not being brown - I just want them crisp. I usually stir-fry them Chinese style (high heat on a wok), which chars them nicely and retains their crispiness. They're amazing cooked that way, but I was looking for a change.
I think I will have to do another experiment. I'm thinking of trying 10 or 12 minutes at 85C next. I'll report back.
ChefSteps had a recipe that looked pretty decent. Everytime I've made them, ended up being too mushy. I had bunch of bags that turned out like that - popped into the Vitamix and out came asparagus soup! :-) No waste, and it was delicious!
Todd in Chicago
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If I had it and it wasn't vac sealed and frozen....deep six.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Hello. I'm new to post here but I've been a reader for years. I'm also fairly inexperienced to these types of forums in general so I hope you'll excuse my post if I'm in the wrong spot.
I've made a query here and online and I was unable to find what I'm searching so I decided to just ask.
I have a PS SousVide Pro that I bought this month with plans to use it in my small kitchen operation. There are countless benefits for us in my work, and I'll spare you, but I'm beginning to make some cooks and record notes.
I'm constantly trying, on a personal level, to be more organized. And, my ultimate goal in my kitchen is to record, tweak, record, and become absolute....so I can create a product that my very small and less skilled team can reproduce. During my trials, I want to have control and variation recorded to the finest detail.
I use a recipe manager "Paprika", Google Drive/Docs, I purchased SousVide Dash today, etc+.
So my question is this, 'Is there a spreadsheet or efficient note-taking template, that you guys use to record details of your sous vide cooks?'
Thank you for your help and I really love and appreciate my opportunity to absorb the cuisine and tech details the great egullet community has shared.
Check out this post:
We think this is a great way to record your cooks, and share with the community if you so desire.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Thawing it overnight is an attempt to get it back to fresh condition. I'm not sure why it would take less time when compared to fresh. If it was flash frozen, it is typically as good as fresh. If not, you will lose moisture and the texture will be affected on thawing due to crystallization of the flesh. We've had that discussion before somewhere in the sous vide threads. The question arises as to why you'd thaw it before cooking. Just bag it frozen and cook for slightly longer to take into account thawing time.
Im am going to disagree with you. I have had a bad experience with SVing something raw from frozen to a low temperature like 132F medium rare. After 48 hours it smelled like fecal matter. And had to be thrown away. I find nothing wrong with re-therming someting frozen that had been cooked, but i will never SV anything raw in a frozen state ever again.
I thought in Douglas Baldwins book (and I could be wrong) that he mentioned that food cooked SV could be kept far longer in the freezer that food that was raw and then frozen. My understanding is that for most items, food cooked SV and then frozen can be kept for close to a year with little degradation in taste or texture. To test this point, I made a filet mignon for my wife (her favorite cut), which was actually cooked SV about 1 year ago. I queried her about the dinner and she indicated that the filet was perfect. I then told her I cooked it a year ago and she couldn't believe it. And she didn't even hit me. ;-)
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Hi Todd, it was good but not great, to our taste. I made some research and the 750 g seem to be good amount, it's not a typo. So likely the taste profile changed with the lower amount of butter....
Well my friend, I'll let you know as I went full bore! The thing is, is that most of that is recovered. I think the original amount is something like 7.5 sticks of butter here in the US, and from what I recovered as SOLIDIFIED on the top, I weighed and found only about 1.5 sticks as "missing". I fully believe that those went in the can with the used veggies. I plan on clarifying this evening, so will let everyone know!
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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I dont like smoked corned beef, but i do SV brisket then smoke. I like a brisket that can still be sliced yet tender and juicy. I SV at 132F for 12 hours and then smoke for 4-5 hours at 200F till internal temp reaches between 155F and 165F. Really temp depends on how defined the bark is, if it has good bark at 155F i pull it then, if not i'll let ride to 165F. It still comes out just and tender and juicy. If you want a more fall apart that you can barely slice, go for 24 hours at 132F then smoke as listed above.
Doh!!! That is totally making my mouth water!! I've got a brisket in my freezer that for 72 hours at 133 F. I wonder if I can still do the smoke part like you did. Did you put any kind of rub or anything on the outside before smoking?
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Hi, the Marmite Consomme recipe has as first ingredient 750 gr of brown butter, used to sweat the vegetables. 750 gr is as much as the amount of liquid being used for the consomme (500 gr reduced wine + 250 gr water). This seems like a typo to me, even though there are a lot of vegetables to sweat (2,5 kg), in fact I did it yesterday using only 150 gr of brown butter. Anyone has made this recipe? How much butter did you use?
EnriqueB....
How did this turn out using the smaller amount of butter? What did you think of the consommé? I'm in the process of making this and was thinking the same to myself....wow! What a lot of butter!!
Did anyone else ever make this? I don't seem to be able to find that someone did.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
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Wanted: Egg cooking table for 80°C water bath
Bob's "Asparagus sunrise" seems to be a nice way to present Onsen Tamago.
Here's another way of serving "perfect eggs" with a gelled white:
Spinach is cooked with sauteed onions, finely chopped dried tomatoes and pignolias.
Four eggs of 138mm circumference from the fridge were placed in a ziploc bag suspended on a skewer and immersed in a 75°C water bath with forced circulation (FMM), pushing the zip under water to allow just enough water to enter the bag to displace the air. After 15 minutes, the bag with the eggs was placed in a pot with cold water to stop further cooking until the spinach was plated, then the eggs were cracked sideways on the counter and easily slided onto the spinach.
For me, the eggs were perfect; SWAMBO would like the whites set a bit more, but not rubbery. Maybe this could be achieved by cooking in 80°C water instead of 75°C? Unfortunately I am not a proud owner of an iPhone. Maybe someone with an iPhone could use Vengroff's app to publish a table like Douglas' table but for an 80°C water bath? I guess a few other Windows-bound guys like me would be deeply grateful. Thanks in advance!
Pedro, saw this listed as a "Public" favorite, looks great! I may give it a try this Sunday.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
"The Photography of Modernist Cuisine"
in Cookbooks & References
Posted · Edited by Todd in Chicago (log)
Folks, here is a photo of a volume of "Modernist Cuisine" and my copy of "The Photography of Modernist Cuisine" to give you an idea of the size; also included are a coffee cup and a 165mm Takeda Nakiri for reference. It is a large book!
As far as the pics, here is a snip from a blog:
"Spoonhq – Food PR & Restaurant PR Blog says: At the same time as paying homage to the exquisite visuals of the original Modernist Cuisine book, Nathan Myhrvold has opened up The Cooking Lab photo archives to share a large number of stunning, never-before-seen images. The book will feature 399 photos, spread across 312 pages which are 60% larger than those in Modernist Cuisine: The Art and Science of Cooking at 66cm x 42cm. 161 of the images are presented full bleed across one or two pages. To prevent the photography from looking cluttered, no accompanying captions nor explanations have been included with the images, and have instead been positioned in a chapter at the end of the book dedicated to explaining each and every photo. There will be no recipes.
And here is what Nathan himself has said:
Soon after the publication of our second cookbook, Modernist Cuisine at Home, I started thinking more seriously about the hundreds of thousands of photos that my team and I have made and collected over the years— those that made it into the volumes of our books and the many more that didn't.
We pored over our vast photo library and ultimately selected 405 photos for our book, The Photography of Modernist Cuisine. Of those images, 145 are presented full-bleed across one or two full pages. As we look at these images, it’s hard to resist the temptation to comment on their backstories, to share some of the scientific, culinary, or photographic context to the image. We didn’t want to add captions on the images that would distract from their impact, so we have instead included in the back of the book that presents a short interesting backstory for each photo.
So some of these have been in the previous works, and some were taken and not used, but are now shown here.
Have fun!
Todd in Chicago
Note (Edited Nathan's comments to fit eGullet 150 char limit)