Wilfrid

Thank you for clarifying the eye candy aspect of those restaurants, which I shall now avoid at all costs (or at least not report about on the Board

Many thanks. I need to decide if I'm staying in Santa Monica or Beverley Hills - love those hotel prices - and then I'll see where I can get a table. Several of these options sound perfect. I need to research Jurassic cuisine in order to evaluate Kiku's tip .

If I get a chance to eat one dinner in L.A. - and it needs to be somewhere fairly accessible by taxi, and where I can get a table with less than a week's notice - what shouldn't I miss? I am happy with upscale, and I incline towards European/American rather than Asian unless there are compelling arguments in the other direction. Thanks for any help.

I was less drunk than you? No, I liked it. Fuller bodied than the VR. Sorry, winespeak's not my strong point.

Marty, thanks - I took the spelling over the phone*, so I'll make the corrections. *The plastic thing you use to get the NY Times delivered.

I haven't yet finished thanking Escoffier. Am working my way down the list. Will get to Leff eventually. Although we did, to our shame, talk about The Other Place a little.

The producer on the Vosne Romanee was Hudelot Noellat.

Fair point, Bux, although the pricing generally matches their four star aspirations. Laura, I'll be looking out for Ticklemore. Murray's and Artisanal are obvious possibilities.

Down the mean streets of New York e-foodie-ism a man must go. Yes, I was one of the shady and sinister characters welcomed into the warm bosom of Ali's cafe last night. Joy was there, and we can also mention Toby. I am seeking clarification as to whether I can discuss she-who-once-typed-real-loud-and-will-soon-type-again. As to the other glamorous diners at that lush nightspot, suffice to say I think it was either Howard Hughes or Elvis Presley who handed us chunks of panna forte before disappearing into the chilly Astoria night. Thanks, Joy, for getting the menu down. And you also have my heartfelt appreciation for coming up with the correct culinary term, "pizzle", thereby at least retarding this discussion's slide into pantomime. Fantastic meal. What the lovely, beret-boasting Ali can do in that narrow galley is quite incredible. And the care and love: he makes his own yoghurt, then makes cheese from it. He prepares each offal dish to bring out different textures and flavors. With the pizzle came little square pastries (looked like hamentuschen to me, but that may not be the Egyptian term), the pastry made with fat from the offal, a spicy stuffing in the center. Yes, the crispy onion vinaigrette including fine shavings of the oddly textured veal lips, and provided a crunch to balance the succulence of the cheeks, beans and rice. I liked the cow foot over rice, served in a big coffee cup, but it was comforting rather than dramatic. The brains are about the best you can get. As for the pizzle, I was more than impressed. I do not claim that because something is a little weird, it's therefore tasty. I have given pig's ears a fair trial, and I have no use for them. Similarly, if I eat cold boiled brains once a year, that is enough. But the pizzle was actually delicious. It came in small chunks which reminded me most of slightly undercooked gizzards. A little chew to them, but no toughness. How they would fare without Ali's saucing and spicing I don't know. She-who-types-real-loud managed to catch him "cutting up a whole one", and seemed pleased. A remarkable evening. Oh, I can remember two wines - the very reliable Fat Bastard Syrah, and a 1999 Vosne Romanee "Les Suchots" from Jacques Cachieux. Help: was the third wine Italian? (Drinking without looking by that stage.)

Yes of course, what else. And then they shake it all up so no-one can tell the difference.

It's a blend rather than a straight cabernet sauvignon, and it's a collaboration with Rothschild. The proprtions of the blend vary from vintage to vintage; not sure if the varietals do. All explained here, no doubt.

Lest anyone scoff, I confess my 1998 bottle washed down some nicely fried calves' brains.

I tried a web search for more information, but getting no results with variations of the spelling makes me worried I may have got that lovely name wrong. Sounds familiar to me though? Anyone else heard of it. In any case, it was a fairly large, round goat cheese shaped a bit like a muffin, with a distinctive ridge around the perimeter about half way up (is this helping)? They were serving slices from it. It wasn't a stinky goat cheese by any means, but it was well-flavored (so much for my cheese vocabulary).

Would anyone like to buy some pannetone? Oh, wrong thread...

Ah yes, that did occur to me at the time, and then I forgot to ask. This is why Bill Grimes has the job, not me.

Not a pizza expert by any means. I just note that the method - described by Fat Bloke and Suvir early in the thread, is apparently an unusual one. A griddle and a broiler. I don't know about Sardinia, but in Italy they seem to use ovens, as I believe do the more highly touted pizza joints in New York. Maybe they'll get the dough right using the griddle and broiler.

"(T)he crust was cracker-thin and tasteless" - not bad, but I thought Cabby nailed it better when she compared it with "unduly dry pita bread". After we've given Otto all the time it needs to settle down and tweak the pies, it would be interesting to discuss whether deciding not to use an oven was a huge mistake.

Unless the filling is inside, it surely doesn't count as "stuffed". I think this was Bill Clinton's view. Moving swiftly on, I wanted to say that I am currently making arrangements to sample a "tucker bag" steak next week, the key factor being that a kangaroo rather than a cow will be providing the filet element. Will report back.

In this particular restaurant, nothing even close. I was amazed they had it. I believe I've seen recent vintages of Opus One around that price retail, so I think I was onto a good thing (assuming one had the two hundred bucks and wanted to drink it).

So a good performance in the market-place includes attracting high levels of subsidy.

It's not what I want from life, but there you go.

I should have noted that, shouldn't I? Let me double check.

My curiosity piqued by Patrice's reference to the frog leg soup, right here, I had a return bout with Atelier recently, and fairly knocked the bell (as Liebling would say). In addition to a regular tasting menu, they are now offering a long chef's tasting menu at $128. Since the soup and the pie were listed, I opted this way and, after independently inserting a cheese plate, ate about twelve or thirteen courses - the largest meal I have eaten in a restaurant for some time. I continue to resist taking notes at table and wrestling copies of the menu from the maitre d', so there's a caveat on the details; but this is more or less what I ingested: Smoked trout canape. Layers of goat cheese and smoked salmon wrapped in, I think, leek (like a slice of terrine). Boneless quail and a boiled quail egg, wrapped in Boston greens pricked witha balck truffle brunoise, quail leg, black truffle jelly, salad. Carpaccio of scallops and blue fin tune with ostera caviar and a balsamic reduction. Seared Hudson Valley foie gras garnished with grapefruit. Peasant soup with frog's legs. Turbot with black truffles and black truffle sauce. Maine lobster with eleven herbs, ramps, boiled potatoes. Moroccon croustillante of squab, foie gras and Savoy cabbage. Ticklebourne, Pierre Robert, Livarot, Stilton. Small glasses of orange jelly with cream, chilled coconut soup and Granny Smith apple soup. Marinated poached pair with ice cream. Chocolates and petits fours. Sparing you a blow by blow account, the only poor dish was the lobster, which was well-flavored but too chewy. Everything else was of a high standard. Of particular interest: that amazing quail dish. The quail and egg wrapped in greens, studded with pieces of black truffle looked like a comic-book land mine; terrific mouthfuls; the black truffle jelly needed more oomph. The peasant soup is cheeky. The frog leg soup at Jean-Georges - from memory - consists of a creamy, garlic-scented veloute with deep-fried (on the bone) frog legs. Here, Kreuther, coming out of J-G's kitchen, offers a hearty broth, thickened with bread, I suspect, thickly populated with small filets of frog leg. A bold dish to put on a pricey tasting menu, but very successful. The squab pie has been discussed before. Architecturally accomplished, and a great contrast of textures as well as flavors. The cheese selection is not at the Artisanal level, but is interesting and well-kept. Amazed to find the British goat cheese, Ticklebourne, available. The restaurant is proud of its cheese. Wine highlight was a 1999 Vosne Romanee 1er Cru, "Les Suchots". Good news for non-millionaires is that the '99's do seem to be drinking well. This had soft tannins and very distinct Burgundy character. I'll leave it to the experts to tell you whether this means the vintage has no legs. The sommelier confirmed my impression that there are now a lot more wines on the list below $70, eliminating one complaint from my first visit (no, this wasn't one of them). They are serving around sixty seven covers here, and the restaurant is not always full. Nevertheless, there are three captains and a sommelier, and one has the sense that the kitchen is concentrating on the plates it is sending out; this is not a conveyor belt. The dishes intended to be hot were hot. Service is at the highest-level. It's still a shame about dull the room and the cheapo tables. Bottom line - Atelier is making a serious and now very convincing pitch to be considered in the top rank of NYC restaurants. I praise Kreuther for doing so without following the pack. He composes a menu of interesting, unusual, carefully constructed dishes; is not afraid of textures and heartiness; and understands that there's more to fine dining than searing a lump of protein, bunging it in the oven, and squirting some foam on top. Love the place. Damn, it's expensive.

Opus One isn't my first choice among wines in that price category, but I came across a $200 bottle of the 1998 in a restaurant last week. So we drank it. Seems like a bargain, or am I deluded? I'm sure it had a lot more to give with age, but it was not unpleasant.