julot-les-pinceaux

You're in SW France, right? That's different, and known as heaven on earth.

Hold on! I'm not saying that Bavarian food is good, less again meets any culinary aspiration. I am very unhappy here. This is still wurst and sauerkraut and knodel everywhere. But in Paris, if you stop in a random bistrot, what you have often barely qualifies as food. Cooking is random, quality is absolutely industrial and all in all, this is like an invitation to fasting. If I stop in a random biergarten here, I am pretty sure of what I am gonna get -- a decent sausage, a reasonably well cooked chicken, etc. So this is standardised, much more so than in France today. The range is much more limited. Same is true with food shopping. The fruits you but here in the streets are quite good and fresh. In France, you have the best strawberries on the planet but the rest is just water. This is why my argument was not about the lowering or raising of standards, but about their disparition at the benefice of diversity (like Pti argued) and individuality.

I particularly disagree with the first statement, and would tend to agree with Abra. My remark about the average food in France was related to restaurants and bistrots and places you randomly sit hoping to have a good meal. That the situatio nof French food is polarized, I agree. I seriously doubt, however, that it is a social polarization in the sense that the rich and the powerful would eat better. I think there is both great and awful food everyweher in France, but my impression is that the question of how you eat has become very individual. By contrast, I suspect that what you are referring to, and also what I am experiencing here in Munich, is a situation where food is much more socially, or culturally determined. There are social imperatives about what food should be in here, "standards" to use a word Pti used. If anything, I suspect that the idea of "standard" in food is something that indeed went lost over the last decades in France. So I would argue that, while individual palates may never have been particularly discriminating, there was a time when there were social standards and people had very precise expectations with food. I remember it still being the case in France in the 80s (oldest memories I have) -- the steak would always, always, come on a salad leaf, with a gratineed half tomato etc. It is the same in here: you can't imagine having duck any other way than with Blaukraut and Knödels.

Goulu? Yes! And even if you replace it with l'Ami Jean, I would seriously advice exercise and vegetables stock in between. But hey, you're the one to know the limits of your body. Re L'ami Jean, same as John. But food is worth one star to me.

I really mean that I don't like his food. Nothing personal. Just that I still have to have something really good in any Ducasse's establishment. I am open to arm twisting, though. I am a big big fan of Senderens. Lucas Carton under Frédéric Robert is my top restaurant ever. I can remember seven totally marvellous meals there, sophisticated and brutal, eye-closing, lifechanging. I never had the full Jamin Robuchon experience, but I am a fan of some Atelier dishes like the merlan or the ris de veau. And I was a big fan of Benoit Guichard's Jamin and I am a big fan of Briffard at Les Elysées. To go further, my reference other than Senderens is Loiseau. You?

L'Ami Jean or Hiramatsu is really a question of price and style -- fancy sophisticated restaurant versus delicious affordable crowded bistrot. But I would argue against l'Atelier Maitre Albert, expensive and very mediocre foodwise.

Thanks a lot. Winkler, Loiseau and Roellinger are next. Are you asking for advice? Imo, nobody beats l'Ambroisie or l'Arpege when they're on. (And of course nobody beats the prices of l'Arpege whether they're on or off -- but hey, since Lucas Carton closed, they're one of the few places left with Bernard Anthony's cheese ).

Hi Tracy, I am certain that you can always ask for substitution in a tasting menu. If you warn them when you reserve, they will be veen friendlier. That said, I do not believe that a tasting menu is the best way to experience the true skill of the chef. In general, there are too many things to eat. There is not enough of what you like and too much of what you don't. And since there are many courses, there is a lot waiting between courses. Now one of the factors is your digestive ability, of course. But when I want to measure a chef's talent, I ask for two or three courses max, whatever they feel like doing or would recomment that day. If they can't convince me in two courses, why could they in ten? I believe that a tasting menu is like one of those touristic express buses where you see all or Paris in 4h20 minutes exactly. There are exceptions, of course -- but then they will tell you if they think that you miss something by not having the tasting menu.

Yet another proof that we need to be flexible and the good work matters more than brands. Do you have good butcher addresses Pti? (I mean, some that are actually open I used to love a depressive butcher in rue Lebon, but of course eventually he sold his shop and I was left with the fancy Parisian butchers like Lesourd, Desnoyer and les Nivernaises).

Hi, Ptipois, have fun in Morocco and be careful with the sun. Here in Bavaria there was snow yesterday and it was good day to stay at Winkler's. I did (more on the appropriate forum soon). Re gastronomic superiority, I think a good sandwich made with good fresh bread and good, fresh and freshly cut ingredients is a great gastronomic pleasure -- And the bakeries I mention offer the best sandwiches I know, definitely tastier than most commuter foods I know, and actually, I much rather eat at Cosi than Ducasse. I entirely agree with you about how (non)discriminating average French people are. That said, I am not pretending to solve the general problem that people eat crap. I am sharing my adresses for good street food. What I try to do is compare existing places with existing places and consider the choices we actually have. I agree that, when you eat randomly in France, you don't eat well. So yes, those are only addresses. There are many and they are very good. That said, if there ever was a time when food in France was good everywhere, I sure wasn't there. I am dubious that the French people in general ever were more discriminating than they are now. That's not what I see from the elders now. Maybe it is because the decline started with the Trente glorieuses and the General de Gaulle and the development of the industrial passion in France? I would be comfortable with that idea. But why exactly does that comparison of what is with what used to be matter? I think it also raises the general question of whether you judge the food (or anything else) based on the average or based on the best. In that regards, the average food here in Bavaria is better than in France: more precise cooking, better average quality of ingredients, and also much cheaper prices. But if you turn to focusing on the best a place has to offer, then France kicks Bavaria's ass. It is nearly impossible to find really good meat, fish or vegetable (funnily enough, it is almost impossible to find Simmenthal beef in Bavaria). Now this has also became very difficult in France outside of the fancy neighbourhoods of Paris and a very limited number of local markets. Supermarket rules everywhere, and even most renowmed markets mostly have the same stuff you'll find at Carrefour. I would argue that this is why fine dining is important: they are key to ensuring the conservation, and even the development, of quality ingredients and produces. More generally, this is even a question for societies: do you judge them from the best they have (e.g. the US) or forom the average (e.g. Sweden)? In any case, eating well in France definitely requires guidance. That's why we're here, isn't it?

For once, I do not disagree with François Simon, that chef killer. I found the food in le Gavroche to be OK but the place particuarly obnoxious and the open discrimination against water drinkers made me angry and feel like a persecuted minority. That's one of the few places I would actually refuse to go unless they have changed drastically. feels always strange to write bad comments about a place.

As I explained somewhere else, I have pictures on my blog because ever since I added some, people started saying that it was well written and interesting. It is and mostly adresses high-end dining.

John is right of course. However, there is also typically parisian street food, in keeping with the reputation of gastronomic superiority of Paris. It is mostly bought from bakeries. Some particularly great bakeries have particularly great sandwiches and other snacks. Some jump to my mind, like Le Grenier a Pain rue Paul Barruel(it is a chain but this one has the best sandwichs imo), Julien rue Saint Honoré, BE bd de Courcelles, Kayser of course. Also there is a bakery on the bd des Batignolles between Rome and Clichy that makes Gana baguettes and reheats their quiche in the bread oven (and not microwave). Another bakery at the corner of rue and avenue Bosquet also does that. Snack is also sometimes from a pastry, say a macaron of Grégory Renard or a little tart from Christian Constant rue de Fleurus. In the Gare du Nord, there is a produit d'Auvergne store where they keep ham and cheese out of the fridge (=better), have great rural bread and cut you huge sandwiches on order for 4€. Also great produits d'Auvergne in rue Cambronne, but they don't do the sandwiches or sell bread -- buy the bread from Pichard across the street and yammy. I would also strongly recommend some sandwich places, first and foremost Cosi rue de Seine with its continuously warm pizza bread and good wines.Class'Croute and Bert are rather OK, as well as Toastissimo which unfortunately seems to have closed. There is also the topic of traditional "buffet chaud" in cafés, with croque-monsieur and French style hot-dogs (based on Baguette and Mornay sauce). Here I don't really have a recommendation -- I love the hot-dogs from La Bonbonnière at the corner of rue Gay Lussac and rue Saint Jacques but they are impossibly heavy and maybe other than me would find them disgusting. This is actually one of the things I like with those that I would usually not be hungry again for a solid twelve hours afterwards. Finally, Parisian cheap, street and finger food also entail Asian "traiteurs", and there again there are some good ones -- try one 35c dim-sum in those who look good to test them. I can recommend one in rue du Commerce that has a large dining room, between the rue du théatre and the place du commerce, on the same sidewalk as Kayser; one in rue Clerc (Patya?); one in the marché Saint Quentin.

Hi, I don't like Ducasse, but I am not going to accuse them of lying. And since I don't like the place, I haven't been for a while. But my recommendation stands to buy that fancy Italian "Nutella" from BE and it tastes very similar, in my memory, to what they have at the Plaza for breakfast.

The pate a tartiner chocolat/noisette is actually made by an Italian manufacturer and can be bought at Ducasse's fancy bakery called BE, along with some of the best bread in town. As far as pastries are concerned, welcome to paradise. There are many, many different kinds and it is unlikely that any favourite of yours stays so for long. The quality and diversity of pastries is one of the wonders of Paris -- so many different styles and charms for something apparently as simple and straightforward as a croissant.

Maybe confusion inside my head. Both are good, in any case. The one in rue Saussier-Leroy was already there when I was in junior high. That's more recent than your 1969 Gault Millau.

So they finally got that H? I remember that they used to be called l'Uitrier.

I did not go out much in Nancy (always went for family visits -- ate at my grandmother's), but I am aware of three good adresses. The Flo brasserie, l'Excelsior, historical setting and good enough Flo food (a brasserie chain). Le Grenier a Sel is the 1* restaurant , in one of the oldest houses in town, like the Michelin say. V four, rue Saint Michel, is a very good bistrot. Now, when in Nancy, there are three places I always visit: Le Hall du Livre has an amazing stock of CDs and books, inluding in English, with many interesting rarities and things you would not expect. In the covered market, there is Wolff volailler, one of the best in France, has amazing products including an andouillette de canard whose memory makes me sigh. And there is a great confiseur whose name is Lalonde. They do the same candies as the ones called "burgondines" in Beaune, a praline mousse inside a white meringue crisp and they call them Duchesse de Lorraine. Yammy.

Nobody mentioned the alternative that jumps to my mind, especially from CDG1: Take the AF bus, which is no longer and no less reliable than the RER, to Charles de Gaule (la place, pas l'aéroport) and spend the morning around the market Bayen Poncelet, for instance with croissants from la fleur d'Oranger, Bred from BE, great fruits from planete fruits, maybe scroll around the biggest Fnac (CDs and books) if you feel like taking a break from food. You can buy wine from Petrissans, cheese from Alleosse. Divay has all sorts of great stuff including my favourite confit de canard. Pou also, say for foie gras. And you can even grab some of the greatest sushi to go in town before you take the bus at Okame, in the end of the faubourg saint honoré. The AF bus goes direct from CDG 1 to Place Charles de Gaulle Etoile (actually stops in CDG 2AB, CD, ad EF and in Porte Maillot), takes fourty minutes, costs 20€ round trip. It has the charm of being much more comfortable than the RER. NO traffic issue on a saturday morning. And this is when Divay makes the "croissants au jambon" that are pretty unique (I think it is actually turkey -- and it has no cheese).

I could have told you about the 99 and the Boucheries Nivernaises because I used to live at the 103. Be careful that, as many butchers, if you ask meat for four persons they will give you four pounds. And they're not cheaper than Desnoyer. Re: label rouge for beef, more detail there. They are all grass fed even if as you can see from this website, the label rouge entails different conditions for different breeds and regions. In general, label rouge or not, there are stricter regulation on French beef than US. Hormones in particular are totally forbidden. But I did not explore the whole supply chain of common supermarket beef. That's something we should ask Jean-Pierre Coffe. Or Pti?

No idea about SW France, but in Paris, the two main sources of great beef are Les Boucheries Nivernaises, faubourg Saint Honoré (maybe the one John was referring to last year?) for marbled, aged Simmental and Hugo Desnoyer of course (www.regalez-vous.com) for great Aubrac, Salers, Limousine. In any case, if you like your beef aged and marbled (as I do), you should ask for "bien persillée et bien rassie" and accept that there may be none that day.

This is a different question. I agree with you, and I would advise not to ask for pasta instead when Ceruti designed a risotto that day. But I am still shocked that the Louis XV, of all places, would refuse to acomodate that request.

Scottf, I was talking about Ducasse in general, since I have not been to Le Louis XV in particular. I may be unfair to Ceruti here since everybody says that he is the best in the Ducasse empire. But Ducasse's other places leave me very unimpressed foodwise. I would actually argue that it is the opposite of haute, great cuisine -- my 2 cents, obviously. I may have a total misunderstanding of what I pay for in 3* restaurants (I've only been in dozens a year for fifteen years) and of how kitchen work (I've only worked in some a bit). But I know enough to know that the Louis XV is not an independent haute cuisine restaurant but a palace. The prices they practice are largely justified by the fact that they are a palace restaurant. They're here to please the customer, not the other way around. I can mention a number of 3* where that request would never be turned down. Of course if you have last minute special request, you will not benefit of all the planning that went into the risotto or whatever the Chef planned that day. And you will probably not enjoy the top of what they can do. But that is the client's call. I am not saying it is the best way to enjoy restaurant. But in the end the client is the only judge of what he wants or not, especially in a palace. I also know enough that, no matter how it is organised, it is not an issue to make pasta for that kind of brigade and kitchen. Not to mention that Ducasse prouds himself so much on the fancy (dried) artisanal pasta he serves. Boeuf bourguignon or beefburger or thai green curry are much more specific requests, actually impossible to acomodate on short notice in the Louis XV. This has nothing to do with wanting pasta in the fanciest hotel in Monaco -- the most Italian inspired of all 3*. In general, I find the idea that, on top of paying 500€ per person, you should comply with some sort of code and show yourself worthy of the place really strange.

At these prices, sounds like a great example of "their problem". A three star restaurant, furthermore in a palace, should be able to make you pasta if that's what you want. They're here to please you and they charge you enough for that. If they can't live up to legitimate expectations, so be it, and let us never eat at Ducasse again. It's not like it's good anyway.

We can list all Parisian three stars and none of them sucks. But why don't you tell us what you like/expect? Also what you liked/disliked about Savoy and Gagnaire. I argued herethat the three best foods were at l'Arpège, l'Ambroisie and Gagnaire and they are generally acknowledged as the best among the three stars, but that's a meaningless hierarchy if it does not meet your preferences.