Aquitaine

OK, I'm going out on a limb here, not having made this, not being a chef, and rarely making sauces with butter...and not having the Ripert recipe, but.... ...I wonder whether the temperature of your butter is cold enough before you add it, and whether you are adding it slowly enough, i.e., adding each piece only when the previous one is incorporated? Like for a beurre monte. (And there would be NO need for any thickening agent, e.g., arrowroot....) In other words, I think it's a question of technique, not ingredients.... You might want to check out the recipe for beurre monte in "The French Laundry Cookbook." On the other hand, in the Los Angeles Times, October 4, 2000, Thomas Keller and Michael Ruhlman wrote about making a wine reduction WITHOUT butter. Definitely an article worth retrieving from the archives...

I am not a fruit expert, but I believe that "kaki" is simply another name for persimmon. There are two main types of persimmon, at least among those found in the U.S. -- a Fuyu and a Hachiya. The California Rare Fruit Growers association has a website that you might find useful. The page about persimmons can be found at: http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/persimmon.html Regarding Sharon fruit, this is what fruit expert David Karp notes: (Excellent article on persimmons, by the way. Karp writes frequently about various fruit for the Los Angeles Times; if you're really interested, you can retrieve his articles on persimmons through the Times' archive...)

My long-held theory is that people who are serious about food should have TWO refrigerators: A, for condiments, sauces, so-called make-aheads -- you know, the stuff that you put into dishes and might hang around for quite some time... B, for food that you actually eat in the near future So this results in a baby fridge full of stuff like that phenomenal salad dressing, brandied fruit, jars of miso and tahini, etc. And a full-size fridge full of OJ and milk/soy milk cartons, yogurt, cheeses, that day's farmers market haul, etc. Of course, I am only dreaming. I live in New York City, so my kitchen is the size of a closet -- and the scene of numerous accidents, typically resulting from balancing too many things or being able to open the oven door only by contorting myself into positions that would make me eligible for Cirque du Soleil... I was thrilled to trade UP to a 14-cubic foot size. Even so, it is so crammed with type-A that I barely have room for type-B stuff.... (Forget about proper air circulation.)

Thanks for posting, Lisa. Sounds like you had a great time. I hope you also saw the wonderful pictures on the thread from Fat Man and Ellen Shapiro's visit at A day with Curd Nerd, making cheese -- or perhaps that's WHY you went! How did you make arrangements to work (and stay through the weekend)? Perhaps I've missed something at the Bobolink website?? And did you take a bus from NYC (maybe I should PM you to get details....)

Just thought I'd note that Slow Food Number 38 has a special report on chocolate -- specifically, articles that focus on politics, history, geopolitics, social issues... http://www.slowfood.com/img_sito/riviste/n.../38/slow38.html Links to all the articles at the above URL.... (if I got it right). The links aren't underlined, by the way, but they work.... I love chocolate, but I confess that I tend to forget that we should be aware that it comes to us -- as does coffee and sugar -- at a great cost to others....

I've never worked with kataifi. Do you need to slather it with melted butter just like you do phyllo? (Even for the savory recipes mentioned -- e.g., Jinmyo's "It can be nice with bits of finely miced bacon and placed atop a simple salad of watercress with a Dijon vinaigrette" ???? Does it dry out even faster than phyllo? What about a variation on birds nest pastries -- just make them savory? You know, a cute little round pile with a center of something deliciously different texturally... (I'm no chef; savory custard? Sabayon-napped seafood or even vegetable mousse...) I second KatieLoeb's recommendation of the Arto Haroutunian book for pastries, should you change your mind.... (Also, has anyone tried using olive oil instead of butter on phyllo? Perhaps I should start a thread..)

I've only had the Palacios. (It was quite nice sliced and warmed up, eaten with cabrales and a Granny Smith apple -- thanks to she-who-can't-be-named-but-has-recently-been-indicted....) I'd be interested in trying another "good" example, if someone can suggest one. (Bux, I, too, miss the old Casa Moneo. What a great store!) Hey, EJRothman, when do they have to close shop? Checked my files for sources that I've collected over the years. Haven't contacted these companies myself, but Gerald and Cameron Hirigoyen in their book, "The Basque Kitchen" (New York: HarperCollins Publishers, Inc., 1999) list the following: * Chorizo and Basque sausage OKOKI, INC. 175 Graham Street Stratford, CT 06497 Tel: (203) 378-3700 Fax: (203) 377-9590 Distributor La Espanola Meats, Inc. 25020 Doble Avenue Harbor City, CA 90710 Tel: (3 10) 539-0455 Fax: (310) 539-5989 Retailer/ Distributor

Forgot to add this for sources for pomegranate molasses. Matthew Kenney and Joan Schwartz include pages of resources in their new "Big City Cooking." (San Francisco: Chronicle Books, 2003) POMEGRANATE MOLASSES Pomegranate juice reduced to a sweet syrup. www.adrianascaravan.com www.kalustyans.com www.globalfoodmarket.com www.turkishtaste.com

I'd forgotten that there are so many wonderful small cheese producers in the Northwest.... We have a few at the farmers market here in New York City (Union Square location), particularly goat cheese (Mario Batali married into the Coach Farm goat-cheese family, if I remember correctly, who sell here) and some Amish cheese producers. More pop up each year, it seems... ...Since the flavor of a cheese is highly dependent on what the *producer* eats (cows, sheep, goats), I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of the best cheese never makes it to New York. (Thinking "Heidi" -- the Western "alps" ???? Or am I just dreaming?) Jim, very nice to see that Oregonian article. Those windows onto the world of the people who actually make what we eat are wonderful....I've been thinking about going to a *relatively* local cheesemaker's farm to see how it's done. Fat Guy and Ellen Shapiro visited recently (the Bobolink Dairy and Bakeyard, at www.cowsoutside.com). For great pictures of a dairy farm and cheeses being made, check this thread: A Day with Curdnerd, Making Cheese -- and do check out the Bobolink website. Jonathan and Nina White actually practice their philosophy; inspiring... beans, thanks for the list of cheese producers. We even get the Sally Jackson cheese here, but it's a splurge for me, so I don't eat it often...purty nice, though! So, you Seattleites really do go to Pikes Place, despite all the tourists??? * * WARNING: Weather talk.....Duckduck, I'll think about the Epsom salts, however long a shot it sounds. Nice of you to pass that along. [For those of you who think we've got it soft in terms of weather, NYC is practically drowning *as we speak.* Tempers are flaring... And we, too, get winds off the water in the winter, wailing down the canyons of high buildings...AND we spend more time on foot outside than most people in urban areas in this country, I would bet....I grew up in New Hampshire, but there is usually a day or two here when I feel like crying, it's so cold.... About 6 years ago we had quite a tough winter; the Hudson River actually froze for a few days and people skied down Broadway to get to work...And then there is the opposite extreme -- you know, you're stuck on the crowded subway, squeezed with your face in someone's armpit who has just been waiting with you in the airless station several stories underground in 100+ degrees and is snapping gum and listening to a loud Walkman, and the sidewalks could fry an egg, no sweat! -- oh! and you hope there's not going to be a garbage-collectors' strike any time soon... Er, what was that about the "big parking lot" of Seattle????] END WARNING

For a good source of different brands of pomegranate juice and pomegranate molasses, try Kalustyans, a terrific source for Middle Eastern and Indian foods in New York City. They do mail order (800/352-3451). Both Claudia Roden and Sonia Uvezian have written very interesting passages about pomegranates in their books, and I know that Uvezian, at least, provides a recipe for pomegranate molasses. She advises the addition of lemon juice if you can only get (American) sweet pomegranates.... Both are wonderful writers and give you a good sense of the culture and history....I highly recommend both: ** Uvezian, Sonia. Recipes and Remembrances from an Eastern Mediterranean Kitchen: A Culinary Journey Through Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. Austin, Texas: University of Texas Press, 1999. ** Roden, Claudia. The New Book of Middle Eastern Food. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1968, 1972, 1985, 2000.

[Apologies if this is a duplicate post: My post seemed to be accepted but didn't show up, so I'm trying again....) Thank you, robert brown, for starting an interesting thread. Here's a mishmosh of thoughts.... The concept of benchmarking comes into play for professional restaurant critics, it seems to me. How many times do you read reviews of Thai restaurants without seeing reference to pad thai, for example? And you could extrapolate to other, country-cuisine-focused examples. Benchmarking is a distinct type of evaluation, but akin in my mind to another: what I tend to think of as "the omen." As in, how good is the first thing that you eat when seated at a restaurant? Is the bread good? Is the butter that comes with the bread at the right temperature (or the olive oil of distinctive taste)? If there is a tomato in the dish and it's August (and you're not in Iceland), is it a great tomato? (Etc.) To me, these things are augurs of the forthcoming meal. Another element of benchmarking is not just familiarity, but sentiment. The meatloaf that Mom made, Aunt Gladys's apple pie, your first sweetheart's pancakes, etc. I think all bets are off for benchmarking when you first encounter foods that are in a new category, e.g., for most of us Americans, Danish eel (whole), chicken feet at dim sum, seaweed, offal, Japanese sweets, etc. (Do I like "etc"? Just wishing I could write it as they did in the 17th century, with a lovely flourish! )

Thank you, robert brown, for starting an interesting thread. Here's a mishmosh of thoughts.... The concept of benchmarking comes into play for professional restaurant critics, it seems to me. How many times do you read reviews of Thai restaurants without seeing reference to pad thai, for example? And you could extrapolate to other, country-cuisine-focused examples. Benchmarking is a distinct type of evaluation, but akin in my mind to another: what I tend to think of as "the omen." As in, how good is the first thing that you eat when seated at a restaurant? Is the bread good? Is the butter that comes with the bread at the right temperature (or the olive oil of distinctive taste)? If there is a tomato in the dish and it's August (and you're not in Iceland), is it a great tomato? (Etc.) To me, these things are augurs of the forthcoming meal. Another element of benchmarking is not just familiarity, but sentiment. The meatloaf that Mom made, Aunt Gladys's apple pie, your first sweetheart's pancakes, etc. I think all bets are off for benchmarking when you first encounter foods that are in a new category, e.g., for most of us Americans, Danish eel (whole), chicken feet at dim sum, seaweed, offal, Japanese sweets, etc. (Do I like "etc"? Just wishing I could write it as they did in the 17th century, with a lovely flourish! )

Thank you, robert brown, for starting an interesting thread. Here's a mishmosh of thoughts.... The concept of benchmarking comes into play for professional restaurant critics, it seems to me. How many times do you read reviews of Thai restaurants without seeing reference to pad thai, for example? And you could extrapolate to other, country-cuisine-focused examples. Benchmarking is a distinct type of evaluation, but akin in my mind to another: what I tend to think of as "the omen." As in, how good is the first thing that you eat when seated at a restaurant? Is the bread good? Is the butter that comes with the bread at the right temperature (or the olive oil of distinctive taste)? If there is a tomato in the dish and it's August (and you're not in Iceland), is it a great tomato? (Etc.) To me, these things are augurs of the forthcoming meal. Another element of benchmarking is not just familiarity, but sentiment. The meatloaf that Mom made, Aunt Gladys's apple pie, your first sweetheart's pancakes, etc. I think all bets are off for benchmarking when you first encounter foods that are in a new category, e.g., for most of us Americans, Danish eel (whole), chicken feet at dim sum, seaweed, offal, Japanese sweets, etc. (Do I like "etc"? Just wishing I could write it as they did in the 17th century, with a lovely flourish! )

Coordinates, please? (When I'm in Chinatown, I'm usually either a) so flustered and watching where I'm going that I forget to look at the names of stores, b) beelining to a specific destination, or c) flummoxed by what I can't identify and/or have never seen before. I keep meaning to read Linda Bladholm's "Asian Grocery Store Demystified" before I go....) There's a good source for Thai ingredients, by the way, on Moscow Street off Mott: Bangkok Center Market...212/349-1979; open to 8pm, or used to be....That's in New York City, by the way....

Thanks, Bux, for your thoughts about retaurant "guides." I go out to eat very rarely and find that a guide like Zagat is of no help to me whatsoever, for the reasons you note. Wherease I spend an inordinate amount of time checking out eGullet members' thoughts! And I add my thanks, rozrapp, for your detailed notes. edit: Klc, your comments encapsulate what I have come to think about Blue Hill. I'm particularly interested in supporting that strong farmer-supplier-restaurateur relationship, which, thank goodness, is becoming more widespread.

OK, coordinates for Nha Trang, please? (And is it the same as Pho Nha Trang?)

One big caveat for neighborhood residents: the music of so-called bar-restaurants with outside seating. I'm near Columbus Avenue on the Upper West Side, just in from an intersection where every viable business on the block deals with food (supermarket, deli, bar, pizza joint, and restaurants). On warm evenings (and until 4am on weekends) several establishments throw open their doors / windows (and entire storefronts in some cases). I understand the appeal to patrons and business owners, but to residents, having to get up out of bed to go ask for the music to be turned down and/or doors shut -- from around the corner, let alone from below your apartment -- doesn't quite cut it. (Yeah, I'm a morning person living in a night-owl town....But the neighborhood's changed a lot since I moved in.) So my 2 cents is: If you lobby with your Community Board for more sidewalk cafes, make sure that there are restrictions on the granting of so-called cabaret licenses, or some other sort of restriction regarding music, or you may start walking around bleary-eyed and irritable....

OK, now we know how miserable the weather can be, but how it's a matter of perspective...(and I will HAVE to look like a geek and use an umbrella -- I wear glasses) I know you have great seafood and great produce. So let's talk cheese...as in, artisanal, cut-to-order, available at decent prices. I'm a big cheese fan. And I shop European-style (or perhaps that went out with World War II????), i.e., from one store I buy my bread, another I buy cheese, at another produce....very cherry-picking style...and lug home all these bags by foot (OK, sometimes by subway or bus). Wastes a lot of time, unless you actually like food shopping (which I do, when there aren't 3 zillion people cramming the narrow aisles and literally 100 people in front of you on line at Whole Food.....). So what's the local cheese shop/department scoop in Seattle or Portland? Or is there an egullet thread I should check out?

Beans, I missed that program and had wanted to see it. Thank goodness it will be rebroadcast. In case you want to read the Smithsonian magazine article about the expedition (June), here is a link: "North to Alaska" BTW, where do you live now?

Oh, my goodness. I guess I've deliberately kept myself from focusing on just how badly the gray skies get me, and just how extensive the cloud coverage (and damp) is in Seattle. So much going for Seattle...and so much going for Portland, too. Nice of you folks to express concern and try to open my eyes to the reality (seriously -- thanks, duckduck and malarkey; and to Random Alias, who provided laughter amid the tears). I've always wondered whether how people compensate for the gloomy weather -- some people, apparently (nota bene Nightscotsman) aren't particularly affected, and some make friends with the travel agents and skip town in the winter. But what about the other 8 1/2 months? Well, I'm going to go visit anyway -- both towns, possibly in the next couple of months (I know, I know...best weather of the year, deceptive etc.) Meanwhile, maybe I'll start looking into Florida.

Oh, my goodness. I guess I've deliberately kept myself from focusing on just how badly the gray skies get me, and just how extensive the cloud coverage (and damp) is in Seattle. So much going for Seattle...and so much going for Portland, too. Nice of you folks to express concern and try to open my eyes to the reality (seriously -- thanks, duckduck and malarkey; and to Random Alias, who provided laughter amid the tears). I've always wondered whether how people compensate for the gloomy weather -- some people, apparently (nota bene Nightscotsman) aren't particularly affected, and some make friends with the travel agents and skip town in the winter. But what about the other 8 1/2 months? Well, I'm going to go visit anyway -- both towns, possibly in the next couple of months (I know, I know...best weather of the year, deceptive etc.) Meanwhile, maybe I'll start looking into Florida.

1) I meant to title this topic "Real underground food" but goofed... 2) The churros seemed safe...no dairy, no meat, no veggies....I feel dandy a week later. Was I just lucky? I don't know. I have a friend who has eaten off the streets all through Asia and Southeast Asia and the Philippines (how's my geography???) with nary a negative experience. But there are two kinds of people, as Eli Wallach might say [see The Good, the Bad and the Ugly -- which I just did in the extended version at the Film Forum here in NYC; I can't believe I never saw the movie before -- what a hoot! but that's off-topic]: in this case, those with a cast-iron stomach, and those without. I am definitely in the latter camp, but I've definitely been AOK.... 3) For those of you who eat food at the ballpark / stadium...don't be so sure you want to know what you're eating there. Talk about stories...and not just urban legend, either. I got one from the horse's mouth that makes me cringe every time I think of it...20 years later! 4) I stand by this experience. Maybe it was just my adventure for the day! 5) I have been lucky not to have to take the subway as often as I used to; I tend to agree with you, Bux, about food ingestion on the subway in general. Oh well...now my secret is out. Transgress once, tell about it, and whaddya get?

OK, now for the down-and-dirty:...Income. ....Income. With all that we've heard about software millionaires in the Seattle area (so this is addressed to those of you who don't fall into that category).... What do you think about the difference in the cost of living....excluding housing (and that's a big chunk, I know). If you aren't looking for a fancy lifestyle and don't have kids, are Portland and Seattle comparable? (Food, car costs, movies, public transportation--such as it is in Seattle ...for example, everything you buy in New York reflects the scarcity of real estate, from dry cleaning, to haircuts, to grocery stores....so Haagen-Daz ice cream is quite a bit more expensive here than in Rhode Island, for example, perhaps as much as 30%....And the price of public transportation just went up 33% in New York City, now $2.00 per ride, whether bus or subway....) Do you have single friends who make less than $40,000 and live OK (i.e., not completely like poor students)....or $50,000....or $60,000...or what might be a cutoff point, do you think????? (As if we all know what our friends live on financially!).... Anyone want to take a shot, or refer me to (a) another resource, or (b) egullet jail.... * * Or how about this for a diversionary tactic: Let's talk literary. How good is the public library system? Independent bookstores? Used bookstores? (And then, I promise, I will return to food....)

You seem to have nailed it, Jim. Kind of like, you love your first love.... Thanks, guajolote for the objective, scientific take on the weather (I've been looking for this info in vain!): Man, oh man, am I tickled by how much people have gotten into this topic. Really wonderful response! Thanks all of you....and keep it coming! (I know I'll have to adapt to some things, but I SWEAR I will never enter an Olive Garden....)

Trillium, I posted before I read yours...very helpful. Thanks. Portland sounds like a stereotyped Toronto, or Switzerland?????? (Clean, safe, but.....boring??? Oh, just shoot me, if I'm being snotty. Just trying to understand....) Now, for your comment, Trillium: Anyone else on this???? Funny! But it's true that after living in New York City, when you go to other places that are more homogeneous in demographics (like the small university town I grew up in in New England, or even Providence, RI) it feels VERY odd. The density here in NYC is truly in your face, but the diversity certainly adds to the energy and interest level.... I think that would be tough to get used to. Other days I say, "bring on the quiet and civility!" It's just so hard here sometimes...unless you're young and/or have quite a bit of money.... Of course, I might die of shock if all the sales clerks wherever I move turn out to be courteous, or even friendly.... (BTW, if anyone plans on visiting NYC, I'd be happy to give suggestions about goood food sources...sorry, I can't help with restaurants, however....)