haresfur

Ok, the discussion seems to be calming down and you bring up a sugar issue. I can totally understand bartenders using simple instead of sugar, although I don't mind some crystals in the glass. But how far afield can one go with the sugar and still be true to the spirit of the name? With a few exceptions people here seem to think liqueur is out. How about sugarcane syrup? Demarara? Does today's ultra-refined white sugar taste anything like 1800s loaf sugar? I would think that flavoured simple is getting too far away, although I think it could make for some tasty drinks.

Agreed but we can't throw stones: this is the "Spirits & Cocktails" forum not "Spirits & Mixed Drinks". But really, do we need the old category, given bartenders' capacity to blur lines? Sooner or later someone will throw in a splash of digestif, or amaro, or Dubonnet, or vermouth. But we need Old Fashioned cocktails (or at least, right now, I do).

When I worked in bush camps where all the food had to be flown in by float plane, canned chicken served an important purpose as emergency food in case the plane was delayed. You wanted to have something that no one would eat up unless they really had to!

Just getting my container garden going. We are on water restrictions, and although they have eased, I want something easy to maintain. My new house has a garden area (thigh high in weeds right now) but containers are so practical and nice to look at. Right now I have a terracotta pot with a small bay tree, oregano, mint, French tarragon, and parsley. I'll probably move the mint and maybe the oregano before they take over the world. I also have coriander and Thai basil waiting to find a permanent home. I'd really like to get a dwarf lime going, too. ETA: just getting into spring here so I don't need to worry about what will keep going through winter just yet. Shouldn't be any problem though because we only get mild winter frost and that's the wet season. I started planting last winter without too much concern, although the tarragon died back and is just poking up again.

Disclaimer, I'm not a food scientist, I'm a geochemist, but I'd like to add something to the above. pH is effectively a measure of free acidity or free hydrogen ion. So in an ideal situation the dilutions work as above, however there can be other factors that buffer the pH so it doesn't change the same amount as you would expect by adding an amount of acid or by dilution. The reason this is relevant to the discussion is that you shouldn't assume that, say, adding 1 ml of lemon juice to 99 ml of your food product, for a 100 time dilution, that you will end up with a pH of 4. You can end up with a higher pH because the buffering reactions keep the acid from dropping the pH that far, and for that matter, the amount that you would use for one recipe isn't necessarily the same as you need for another. There are other nuances, but the underlying point it to be aware that it isn't completely straight-forward.

DYB - Do Your Best (as the cub scouts would say) As long as it is clear you are not claiming you invented the Old Fashioned or whatever, and attributing the originator when known, I would personally think you are acting ethically. But I can't say if there is some anal-retentive code writer who would disagree...

Thanks. I think the historical perspective is important, particularly when discussing a drink who's very name implies history. Language is dynamic and I don't have any problem that, but a drink named "Old Fashioned" should evoke an earlier time - historically accurate or mere mythology. So the question is not whether a particular definition is correct but whether it is useful. And I think in this case, an overly-expansive definition is more confusing than helpful. So in my mind, any spirit (American whiskey if something else isn't specified), sugar or simple syrup, bitters. If you want to go wild and add a bit of orange, go ahead. Evocative. Pretty much anything else is not true to style, but if you want, go for it. I'm not sure calling it an Old Fashioned would be clear to anyone else, though, and there are probably names that are as good or better. Of course if you are from Wisconsin, you have your own noble tradition. ... and "improved" old fashioned is an oxymoron to me.

If that refers to my post, the answer is, I don't have a clue - I've never tried the stuff. But if any commercial Swedish Punsch products are available in the US, the distribution seems limited and there surely must be some brands that have not been imported. I'd be willing to be flown to Sweden to help with the research, though...

Milk Punch? Dark & Stormy; Campari & soda; rum & orange juice (nice with a sink of grenadine, and at least gets you the vitamin C you must be needing). I think most stirred drinks can be built without doing too much harm. Congratulations on the contributions to the gene pool.

Welcome to eGullet 12BB. I think your list fits because IMO the bitters shouldn't count. Not sure I could live without Campari but, hey, it's your list not mine.

Swedish Punsch?

I can see Sam's point here. Much of the stuff appears to be a solution in search of a problem. It's like they have certain techniques and are trying to apply them to cocktails, whether or not the cocktail world is the right place for them. Sort of "if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail." One of the worst cocktails I ever had was a something or other with a berry foam - sorry, slime on my drink just doesn't work. I do like the idea of the interaction with the drink and bringing in the sound of cracking the egg. I don't like the thought of drinking an old fashioned with sharp shards of ice hitting my teeth. A straw would certainly be needed. On a technical note, the alcohol will eventually dissolve some of the ice until you have a mixture with a freezing point equal to the storage temperature. This could limit how far in advance you could make up the eggs and/or limit you to lower proof booze. Particularly for the Old Fashioned, the tradition of mixing the drink is important, although less so if served to tables. How about freezing the whiskey alone and serving over the sugar and bitters? That way you could still tailor the drink to taste.

I had one of these a few weeks back at Zig Zag when Murray was perfecting it, and it is truly unique! ~Anita Does the above, second post in the thread narrow it down enough?

Well, if you substituted in some brandy, you could call it "Between your Grandma's Sheets" In days gone by you could name it after a popular character of the day, but now you might get sued if you gave tribute to the Caribbean theme and called it the "Johnny Depp". I'm not familiar with Scarlett Ibis. What's it like?

A kid who wants tea and lobster. Sounds like you're raising her right! I have fond memories growing up in Winnipeg of drinking tea that was mostly milk and sugar.

Aw, half the fun is in complaining about the list. The other half? I'd say 1/4 tweaks to check out someplace you haven't been when you find yourself in the right town, and 1/4 the regeneration of fond memories of places you know. And isn't it great that there are now more than 25 cocktail bars worth noting? Probably wasn't the case in 1980.

What would you do: Choices are pretty limited here and as I keep whinging, prices are high. Looking for something for mixing. In the local stores my only rye choice is Jim Beam for $35. They also have Blanton's special reserve single barrel bourbon for $50. The Blanton's is only 80 proof btw (for export only). Mail order, Wild Turkey Rye is $57 + shipping. Other rye whiskey mail order is totally out of my price range. I bought the Blanton's because I was into instant gratification. Just couldn't bring myself to pay that much for Jim Beam. But I am interested in your thoughts on a high rye bourbon vs. Jim Beam rye, or if I just need to suck it up and get the WT.

First thought was Zig Zag is very deserving. Second thought, dang, it's going to be harder to get a seat at the bar. I agree about Portland although my experience is limited to one trip when I was recovering from swine flu and only got to Teardrop. I'm betting GQ reads this forum but just couldn't swing a trip to PDX.

I reported on my adventure with the SanRu here. Today I tried it, substituting Polish mead for the sherry: 1 1/4 oz gin (Seagram's up a little from the original) 1 oz Dubonnet 1 oz Kurpiowski mead build over ice As I did previously, I tasted then added a small lime wedge. This was really spectacular without the lime. After adding lime and finding no improvement (well perhaps a twist would have worked) I added a splash more mead. Yum.

Yes, not good timing for this MixMo but I wandered my way in through the back door. I had been thinking about exploring sherry cocktails, in part because a friend gave me a little bottle of Polish mead that I thought might be an interesting substitution for sherry. But a substitution in what? That will have to wait for another night though, because I'm at my limit. Sherry is daunting since there is such a variety from sweet to dry and all the intimidating oleroso, fino, amontillado, stuff. But my parents were partial to a spot of Bristol cream or Bristol milk, or whatever and as a teenager I was happy to join in a sip if offered. Now I find myself in the land of reasonably reasonable fortified wines, Australia. But that has it's own problems: It is bad enough that cocktail recipes are often vague about what type of sherry to use, but even if specified, how do I translate into the local product? After much head scratching in the liquor store, I gave up and bought a bottle of generic cream sherry, figuring if it didn't do the job in a drink, I could always just hit myself over the head with the bottle. In the old cocktail books, sherry seems to show up mainly in variations of generic drinks and in things like flips, which are out since I'm trying to cut down on the cholesterol. So it was back to eGullet, excuse me, the eGullet Society for Cullinary Arts & Letters, to figure out what to mix. Luckily there is a port and sherry cocktail topic to provide guidance. I say guidance because I tend to find something that sounds promising and then figure out how to come close with my rather spartan liquor supply. I settled on a loose interpretation of the SanRu. I had Dubonnet but no Cherry Heering. No matter, Cascade brewery makes a nice raspberry syrup to add a fruit component. SaRu(ish) 1 oz "cream" sherry 1 oz Seagrams gin 1 oz Dubonnet rouge 1/2 tsp Cascade raspberry syrup build over ice. At that point it was one of those "sequential" drinks: raspberry, then sherry, then Dubonnet. The gin surprisingly hid in the background. But something was missing. Hmm, garnish. There in the fridge was a tiny remaining slice of lime, precious as gold. And that's the thing about lime: you can load up a sour with lime juice and make a nice drink... or you can add a tiny bit of lime to a drink to turn something decent into something special.

McCafe is well established at Maccas in Australia. They usually have at least a separate ordering and serving area at the counter (although you can then usually order at the same counter as the regular food). In many locations the McCafe is at a separate counter in the building. They have coffee, muffins, cakes, and biscuits. The coffee isn't as good as the better real cafes or even as good as Starbucks but is drinkable IMO. That and free WiFi have made me a convert. The ambiance is quite a bit better with even the little amount of remodeling if the TV isn't too loud - but it had nowhere to go but up, eh?

I think Tiki drinks are a good suggestion - fun, easy to drink, and you can pack a ton of alcohol in if that is your wish . I'll probably get slammed for suggesting it, but you can sub in amaretto for orgeat if you don't want to go to the effort of making or acquiring the latter. But if you are going for more "sophisticated" any of the classic sours should work. Nothing wrong with a good mojito, either (and someone who plucks their own mint right off the plant should make anyone swoon). Clear drinks are probably more of a challenge but there are some good suggestions here.

I'd put Barbancourt 5* far up in the smooth category. Maybe you could try a flight of similar rum or whiskys with varying quality and proof. Then let us know if your impression of "smooth" relates to % alcohol or something else (or a combination).

I would try the Tinton again, probably with Calvados. Perhaps some extra stirring because I wasn't quite prepared for the initial sock of the nearly pure brandy, even though I wasn't using bonded. So I suspect the skill of the bartender matters for this one.

A few days ago I tried the Tinton cocktail from Savoy, via eje's blog using the end of my Laird's 12 yr apple brandy and Widbey Island port. It was ok. Then I decided to turn it into a fizzy drink with Henry of Harcort Duck and Bull (hard) cider made from a combination of pink lady and traditional cider apples. I think it would have worked better mixed than using the port as a sink since it was hard to judge the right proportions. So what would this be? Not really a sangaree or a fizz or a shandy. Surely it must have been done before.