thirtyoneknots

If your grocer has heavy cream and buttermilk you can make an excellent approximation by mixing 2 tbs of buttermilk per cup of heavy cream and letting it sit covered at room temp for 24-36 hours, then stir and it will magically thicken if it has not already done so. Refrigerate afterwards and it will keep for a couple of weeks at least. If you dip oreos or girl scout cookies in it you will be making it regularly.

The Van Winkle line certainly delivers well across the price spectrum. What's your upper limit, budget-wise?

It's a little more work sure but a quart of creme fraiche should yield a little less than a pound of butter and a little less than a pint of buttermilk. And it is definitely buttermilk in every sense of the word. The vinegar thing might work but I can't vouch for it myself. I've often wondered if adding powdered buttermilk to milk would have any effect...any guesses? ETA: It seems like the effect of adding vinegar to milk (curdling) might be technically different than souring it with a lactic bacteria culture, even if the texture is similar...I honestly have no idea though.

You could also, if inclined towards projects, buy a quart of heavy cream, culture it (ie, make creme fraiche), churn it into butter, and use the byproduct.

A lot of my thoughts have been covered already (sausages, terrine, etc) but they also respond well to being cured and smoked, then shaved into a salad, then of course when you accumulate a lot of the meaty bones you put them into white beans. Rillettes made from duck are not to be underestimated either, though I guess that's technically a subset of braised/confit preparation.

Probably just as well to keep the groom away from the punch, anyway. Seems to me that this is precisely the situation punch is meant for (although my copy of Dave Wondrich's book hasn't arrived yet). Then again, I'd probably go for something a bit lower octane, at least with crowd who isn't used to old style punch. Punch if properly made with the full dose of water is only slightly stronger than table wine, and certainly a more moderate strength than full-on cocktails. That said, we purposefully allowed for it to run our fairly early so as to mitigate the intensity of the merriment.

I heard a rumor recently that the entire lineup of Pimms products are slated for US (re-)release in the not-too-distant future. Same source spoke of their being Pimm's Nos 1-7, I was previously only aware of 6. Anybody in a position to confirm or refute any of this?

For my own wedding last October we offered wine and beer throughout the reception but also had two bowls worth of Fish House Punch batched to where the bartender could just pour the bottles in with the ice block. It went over so well it was all but gone by the time the wedding party arrived at the reception from taking photos. I had everything but the lemon juice done beforehand which my groomsmen handled that morning. The bartenders were friends of mine, and quite competent, but the venue didn't really allow for complicated, made-to-order drinks, so the punch was a good way to do a "cocktail" without burdening them as they expertly dispensed the refreshment from a far too cramped space. I'm still getting complements and commentary on the punch, and expect I will for some time to come.

Eh, I think it's not worth losing a lot of sleep over. You've got drinks you like to make and drink so those are the drinks you'll mostly make and drink, and occasionally you will (hopefully) want to try something new, even if it is just a simple variation on your standards. I probably come across as beating dead horses around here regarding dry Daiquiris, but I think it can be used to illustrate the concept quite well. The way most sources and even very illustrious bars and bartenders make the drink, it is a perfectly delightful rum sour, not in the least bit challenging and with plenty of rewarding refreshment for even the novice drinker. But when you scale the sugar all the way back to the barest amount necessary to take the edge off the citrus, you open up a new experience, where the rum and lime become far, far more than the sum of their parts. Either drink, made with quality spirits and fresh juice, could be considered crafty. But by pushing yourself to your limits you can open up new gustatory joys.

God bless Astor for keeping El Dorado 5 at a reasonable price. About a year ago it inexplicably jumped to about $20/btl in Texas (or at least at the big chain) which makes me very sad. There are so many other rums at $20 to consider. At $13, its a no-brainer.

Good experiment, I confess I haven't tasted Aperol neat in some time. Between the two, which seemed most bitter?

My point was more about detectable bitterness. I have not had Fee's Rhubarb bitters, and have no particular reason to seek them out. My only point was that they might have bitter extracts without being noticeably bitter. Aperol would be an example of a barely bitter "bitter" that is reported to have rhubarb flavors, so the precedent exists. For my own part I make no assumptions or assertions about the quality of the product in question. I know Fee's is a favorite whipping boy, especially amongst the newer wave of bitters producers. I'm not particularly happy with their quality of late, but I do still respect them for their important place in the story of the cocktail renaissance.

Bravo. I may make punch very soon just to make a point of trying this. I had wondered before if the paddle would work but never actually tried it.

Well with the full disclosure that I work there, I'll throw out Jeffrey's as a possibility--there is an on-site event facility that afaik can hold that many. Including drinks in that budget may or may not be an issue. Closed on the 4th itself but open the weekend.

Andy, I think the simple definition to which Adam refers appears up-topic: Put simply, bitters are a compound of herbs, roots, barks, spices and spirit which were originally used as a medicine. The final product should have layers and layers of flavour with a pronounced bitter, or bittersweet, flavour. I think that's that, particulary given that the only two members around here who produce commercial bitters are Adam and Avery, and given that both insist on this pretty simple definition (bitters are made with bitter things and are bitter). See Chris' reply #734, that pretty much covers it. Not to be argumentative, because I really do like and believe in that definition, but the original does not state that the end result of the process need be overtly or even detectably bitter. Indeed, Vermouth would qualify under this definition, and while it has long worked for my own understanding to consider Vermouth in a spectrum of bitter alcohols, I have also been instructed earlier in this very thread that in no uncertain terms are vermouths to be considered bitters. If "bitter and aromatic" ingredients are extracted, but the aromatic are used in far greater proportion than the bitter, it would both pass and fail the definitions set forth. Especially if, say, the "aromatic" component were Rhubarb. Just sayin'.

To each his own, but I'll just point out that unless you're going to go to the trouble of getting not just the exact spirits called for in a recipe but the exact brand (assuming that brands are even specified), and in some cases from the same country the recipe creator bought theirs from, all this precision in measuring isn't really going to matter, because you can't recreate the drink exactly anyway. And to get the same balance effect intended, it may be necessary to adjust quantities anyway. And if it's not necessary to make adjustments, then you can rest assured it was not necessary to worry about the difference between 40 ml (approx 1 oz + 2 tsp) and 45 ml (approx 1 oz + 3 tsp, aka 1.5 oz) to begin with and you can safely estimate the conversion.

Spiritous items will last essentially forever though their flavor can change over extreme time. Liqueurs, especially fruit or floral flavors, are less stable. Herbal things are a good bet. These guidelines may not apply for stuff under about 20% abv.

If I happen to have some leftover smoked turkey or chicken (such as the capon in the smoker right now) and I happen to dice it up with some celery, red onion, sun dried tomatoes, mayo, and dijon, then put that on some homemade white bread with a leaf of romaine...well, it doesn't usually suck.

Just out of curiosity, what is the simple definition you like? I find the category almost mind-bogglingly complex though I'll admit my perspective is a bit unorthodox.

When discussing well in excess of 99% of cocktail recipes in existence, the slight variation in proportion resulting from metric conversion will not adversely affect the outcome of the final drink. We're making cocktails, not nitroglycerine, so no need to be anxious about it. In general the standard baseline unit in American recipes will be an ounce, and the corresponding unit in British (and presumably other Commonwealth-origin) recipes is 25 ml--a little smaller. This may make conversion or at least approximation a little easier.

I took the receiving of one as a wedding gift as an excuse to become a dedicated bread baker. As an inveterate bartender, savory cook, and jazz lover, the potential for improvisation in bread baking appeals to me in a way that pastry baking probably never will (though I can find that appealing in other ways at times). And when you get the hang of it, a KA mixer can help you whip up a badass loaf of sandwich bread in under 3 hours for maybe a dollar's worth of stuff.

If I may be so bold as to take a stab at interpreting our colleague's remarks, I think what Stephen is saying is that "bitter" by itself isn't useless unless a distinction is made as to what type of bitter it is. When we look at, for an example everyone will be familiar with, Angostura, it has both a noticeably bitter flavor, but also it contributes a level of intensity to the drink that is only peripherally related to the presence of alkaline compounds. In Angostura, the two components are pretty balanced. Peychaud's, for another convenient example, has relatively little bitterness on the palate (it can almost taste sweet to a bitterphile) but is still able to achieve it's purpose in a drink through a strong aromatic intensity. Most of us do not think to separate and distinguish those two aspects of a bitter tincture aka bitters. I think what Stephen is getting at is that he does find it useful to sometimes separate the actual bitter effect on the palate and the intensity contributed to the drink, for whatever given purpose. And so for the latter purpose, something labelled as "bitters" without having any discernable bitterness is still useful in constructing drinks and the semantics are not necessarily worth getting hung up on. Is that even sort of close? I definitely get what frustrates people in the bitters world about this--trying to make something that adheres to the traditional ideal of the product and having others make a product that takes great liberties with those criteria and still uses the same label. But really, everyone on this board is fighting that same fight--making beautiful 2:1 mixes of Tanqueray and Dolin with dashes of bitter orange bitters and wide strips of lemon peel, and that gets stuck with the same "Martini" moniker as Godiva liqueur, Bailey's, and Stoli Vanil with chocolate shaved over the top. Its extremely frustrating, and for my own part I'm nearly as put off by bitters that aren't bitter* as I am by 'Chocolate Martinis' but I do recognize the following two things: The concept has conceivable utility, and there's not a damn thing any of us can really do to stop it. *I think most of my issue actually comes from my perception that making weak bitters is a way to try to get people to use more of the product faster. A bottle of bitters should be a good investment, not something you have to replenish every 15 drinks. edit: spelling

Bostonapothecary, that sounds legit as hell. Now I wish I had a still, just to make this.

HAH! I knew there was a sweet tooth hiding in there somewhere! It comes down to a question of intensity. Tincture is a more common term (when "bitters" isn't misappropriated) to describe something intense enough to contribute flavor in < bsp amounts. If it is intended as a base spirit, as cherry vodka as commonly understood is, that would be lacking intensity to qualify going the other direction.

Your palate is good--Appleton Estate is aged largely (if not exclusively) in spent Jack Daniels barrels, if I'm remembering correctly. That's interesting. I have an extremely low tolerance for the smell of Jack Daniels, yet do enjoy the Appleton Estate. I just smelled my bottle, and I guess it is a bit whiskey-ish, I had been thinking of it more as vanilla. I guess as long as I mix it I won't notice - I was worried you had just ruined it for me! I tasted a hard cider recently that was aged in whiskey barrels, really unpleasant to me, definite whiskey flavor. Too much cheap whiskey in college... shudder I'd almost go so far as to say it's the best use Jack Daniels barrels are put to, at any given time in their lives. Ok the charcoal is kind of cool.