Ruby

How do other eGulletarians feel about eating in a resto/cafe that has decent, cheap food but otherwise has a squalid atmosphere or is downright dirty? How about dining rooms that look clean but bathrooms that are a real turnoff? From my experience, I find some people don't care about the atmosphere or environment as long as the food is good. Other people don't mind schmutz as long as nothing crawls in their food. They wear it like a badge of honor - 'I'm a true blue chowhound-if the food is good I'll eat anywhere.' Personally, I'm very aware of my environment and if a place looks shabby or dirty, I get depressed and don't want to eat there. And what about those places that were so popular a few years ago--shabby poor redneck atmosphere that many people liked. What's your take on that?

I'd been wanting to try La Belle Epoque for some time and finally got around to it on Friday night. Four of us arrived about 7:30 and got seated at a banquette. The free tango lesson starts at 8. The space is beautiful and lives up to its name - very Art Nouveau. It's up one flight of stairs around 12th Street & Broadway in the Village. We ordered only appetizers (from ů to บ) which had a New Orleans feel to it. They were very good but what I found so cool was the mix of people: older, younger, women dressed to the nines in slinky black dresses with high-heeled rhinestone shoes. All doing the tango to a live band. The later it got the better the dancers were. Some of the dancers were total beginners and it's cute to see men counting the steps (it reminded me of dance class in junior high school) but it was very cool. This place has a definite party atmosphere and I'm going to go back another Friday night and tango my tush off. If one doesn't want dinner, I believe there's a บ admission and a bar. Drinks were standard price. It's definitely not the same ole. I believe they also have brunch and were only open at one time for private parties. This is definitely off the beaten track. Happy New Year!

Does opening a can of tuna and toasting bread count as cooking?? No, I didn't think so. ;)

I second Tommy's recommendation of Puttanesca. I even recall seeing a 10 or 15% off coupon in one of those "Where" magazines available at large hotels. Also near Rockefeller Center is Louis (formerly Chez Louis) right on 50th & Sixth Avenue across from Radio City Music Hall. They've got very good chicken and ribs with daily lunch specials. This is owned by David Liederman who makes those delicious David's Cookies.

Definitely check out either one. My main gripe with both places is because I'm genuinely claustrophobic, I hate sitting at a cramped counter. It's more crowded at Pearl because they have less tables. For your birthday, perhaps go someplace more relaxing - I'd hate to see you standing outside on the sidewalk at Mary's Fish Camp waiting for a table to open up. Both places are packed at lunch too. My suggestion is: go one day by yourself, sit at the counter, and enjoy it for what it is.

If I'm treated badly in a restaurant, whether I'm there for a promotion or not, someone in charge there will hear about it. I won't tolerate any blatant attitude. Smith & Wollensky obviously offered this promo to entice customers into their various restaurants--to surmise that servers in the New York restaurant feel cheated with promos because the dinner cost is lower and so is the tip is IMO totally illogical and doesn't justify bad behavior. I would have had a little talk with that waiter with attitude. This is your hard-earned money. Smith & Wollensky emailed you that promo; they came to you--you didn't solicit them. I believe it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said "Nobody can make you feel like a second class citizen unless you give them permission." So, Thereyouare, don't take any more crap, okay?

Hi Scott, Thanks for sharing your dining experiences with us. You wrote so descriptively well that I felt like I was also in the dining rooms. Believe me, I would have snapped up anything your wife Samantha didn't eat! Especially the desserts! Come back and visit us soon. And when you get a chance, please let us know your favorite restaurants in England. You certainly picked some winners in NY! Cheers, :)

F&B at 269 West 23rd Street, near 8th Avenue, is my very favorite. They have regular hot dogs and different variations with sauces/toppings. There are only counters to sit at but they have wine and beer which is great with a dog. Personally, I dislike eating a hot dog from a street vendor as I hate franks that have been sitting in hot greasy water all day. Also Hallo Berlin at 50th or 51st Street near 9th Avenue is very good - Bratwurst, etc.

Sounds to me like your out-of-town guests want to experience a New York vibe so here's my suggestions: When I'm on the Upper West Side, I like Barney Greengrass, Amsterdam Avenue bet. 86th & 87th Street (724-4707). The oldtime atmosphere adds to a bygone New York vibe. Check out the original refrigeration units. Very 1930s. Try to go on a weekday cause the place gets jammed but that's part of the fun for some people. On the Lower East Side, Katz's (254-2246) on East Houston and Ludlow Street is another wonderful New York institution. They also have bagels & lox and lots of great meaty deli sandwiches. After that, you can walk around and pick up some delicious foods to bring home.

Well, Robert, this post taught me one good thing: when I order bottled water in a restaurant, I'll state very clearly "One bottle only please" at the time our table originally orders the water. Then, if the server brings more out without a request, they'll have to explain why. Let the restaurant 'eat' the charge for overpriced water - don't ask, don't charge.

Well, I guess this reflects Babbo's policy: if customers keep drinking bottled water, they just keep pouring it and don't feel customers want to be 'bothered' with a request of "Would you like another bottle?" which interrupts the Babbo dining experience. Nothing wrong with it, really. If no one says anything directly to the Babbo powers that be. I suppose they figure on one bottle for two people. That's what's usually provided whenever I've been at a business or benefit dinner. When I go to Babbo one day, I'll just factor in the cost of bottled water. Of course, the wait staff isn't forcing anyone to drink it - they're only refilling glasses, and bottles at seven bucks a pop, when they see empty ones.

Thanks, Katherine, but if I drank a quart of water before going to bed and was already toasted, I'd probably wet the bed and really hate myself in the morning! :) I'll try your second tip and drink 12 oz. of water with each drink. That should slow me down and I guess gives one a very full feeling. Thanks. Cheers.

I've been following this interesting thread (eat your heart out, Chowhound!) :) since Robert Brown originally wrote about it. From the lastest post about what the server said about the inedible fennel, I'm starting to read between the lines of what may happen at Babbo. Methinks the servers may take it upon themselves to improvise if a scenario doesn't go smoothly - i.e., what the waiter said to Robert about one bottle of water not being enough for four people and this latest comment about the fennel. I've had this personally happen where I've felt that servers kind of 'hoof it' and give you their logic on the situation at hand when perhaps it's not even restaurant policy. Well, that's my take on this after hearing about the fennel. Did anyone write to Babbo about this thread and, if so, any responses from them? That would indeed be interesting.

Thanks, Tommy. That's just what I did - slept on and off all day and ate - craving mostly carbos. Feel great today but most of yesterday went down the tubes. Oh well, will take it easy next time! Yeah, famous last words :)

Too much partying last night, too many Cosmopolitans. Was it worth it? Yes, but all advice is appreciated. :) A big thank you.

Bottled water is sealed and the kind I buy has an extra strip around the cap. Many products on shelves today are sealed and written instructions urge the consumer to return the product if the seal has been removed. I believe this was started several years ago when a bottle of Tylenol was tampered with and one or more persons died. Of course, if someone wants to really get at bottled water, I'm sure they'll come up with something but I can't live in constant fear of "what if?" Trust me, brown rusty tap water is not pretty either.

<p>Wilfrid, you raise interesting points about the legal issue of walking. Personally, I never eat the bread or any complimentary appetizers offered before I order food so if something negative occurs and I want to walk out (which is infrequent but it happens) I'm not obligated. Often I'll order a drink and if something then goes awry (lack of service/attention/rudeness) I'll ask the server for a check and explain why I'm leaving. This works all the time. If I'm with a group of people and we do decide to leave, we leave a small tip if someone has eaten any bread.<p>I do agree that your group should have paid at the Chinese restaurant. Not liking the decor is no reason to not pay for food that's already been ordered. Anyway, with few exceptions, most people don't go to Chinese restaurants for the decor but the food. <p>

Rosie, I love it! Schlepping in with gallons of water! I can picture some haughty maitre d' having a hissy fit and saying "There's the door!" or charging corking fees for water! LOL

Well, Jason, I live in the heart of Manhattan and can't tell you how many times I've gotten brown smelly water that flows through the old pipes. I can always tell when the water is going to be brown because the pressure of the water changes and the pipes start making cha-cha sounds. I've complained to the Board of Health and they say this can occur when there's construction in the streets. I won't drink tap water at home and buy gallons of distilled water. Don't laugh - even my cats Casey & Daisy won't drink the water when it's brown. I refuse to buy a Brita and so far am happy with my distilled water. Additionally, with all the health threats around (Anthrax, smallpox, etc.) I'm not going to drink tap water at this point. I was in Westchester where the New York City reservoirs are supplied and it would have been so easy to throw something into the water from the bridge I was standing on. And I'm not a paranoid person. So pass the bottled water please but I wish restaurants weren't so pushy and so eager to inflate the prices of water. I have found Pellegrino and Perrier on sale for 89 cents. How can they charge from ŭ-8 for the same thing? Amazing and as long as people pay for it, restaurants will keep pushing and charging astronomical prices.

Wilfrid, sure I can understand that because a bunch of people, who are on the expense account, would be sharing more than one bottle of water. However, how does the server know the table doesn't want to change to still water? They should still ask. Ruby Quote from Wilfred: As far as bread goes, you may get more without paying for it, but I find you often need to ask. At Michael's in midtown New York, it took some time to get bread served with the appetizers; when I finally snared a waiter, he carefully selected one half-slice of bread from his bursting basket and laid it delicately on my side plate. I wondered if he was paying for the brad out of his salary. Wilfrid, it seems to me that no restaurant wants to push the bread as people will fill up before the main dishes arrive and 1) they may not enjoy the food as much and 2) eating so much bread may not leave much room for dessert which is always a profit center for restaurants. Personally, if the bread is that good, I do keep reaching for it and know I'll spoil my appetite for the main event. Ruby

After reading the lively postings about bottled water - "Babbo - a chink in Super Mario's Armor" - it got me thinking about quirks that I have and won't tolerate in a restaurant. That is, I'd rather leave before being served than put up with much of the following: Being seated at a really rotten table - near a smoky noisy bar, coat check, bathroom, etc. As the old saying goes, I'll pay more for more but won't pay more for less - such as inflated prices for mediocre wine and bottled water, surcharges for additional ingredients that are cheap imitations such as sea legs passing for crabmeat; ingredients that are listed for a dish that really aren't there or contain a token amount (shrimp, lobster). Pushy, intimidating, pretentious or arrogant restaurant staff: servers, managers or owners. I am not frequenting an establishment to have a screaming match with any of them. Fortunately, all of the above happens infrequently and my radar goes off if and when it does happen and I speak up and usually get satisfaction. Would be interested to hear about your intolerance levels and/or quirks and pet peeves.

Well, Ron, here's my response to this. The chef created something wonderful for you and your guests to eat, the sommelier provided their wine knowledge to help you enjoy the wine you can afford - but what did they do to a bottle of designer water besides open it and pour it in a nice glass for you and then charge ŭ-7 for Perrier-Pellegrino-whatever? If you don't mind, that's fine-it's your money-but the point of the original posting was that Babbo was charging the table for bottled water without a request from the table. They wouldn't dare do that with wine, desserts and fancy coffee drinks. The customer is usually always right and IMO Babbo and their servers shouldn't assume that people want to spend their money on additional bottles of water without asking first.

But did they keep bringing you bottled water without your requesting it and charging you for it? I don't mind spending Ů or ů for a bottle of water but when we're talking about 2 or 3 bottles, methinks we're spending money like water! ;)

Yvonne, I used to like the seafood paella and shrimp ajillo at Sevilla on Charles and West 4th Street in the Village. The waiter used to tease me and say "After you eat our shrimp ajillo, you won't be able to kiss anyone for a few days." After a large pitcher of sangria, nobody seemed to care about the garlic and were kissy-kissy anyway. I haven't been there for awhile so don't know how it presently is but they still have lines to get in on the weekends. If you haven't been there already, try it during the week.

Well, this has turned out to be a lively interesting discussion. I find myself in agreement with Tommy in response to many of Fat Guy's comments. Anyway, many new chef-owners in New York really love to cook and open a restaurant for the joy of it (and of course for some profit) and I don't feel that they actively see bottled water as a constant money-making center. Europeans routinely drink bottled water and so they offer it in their restaurants. My favorite is Badoit which I'm just starting to see in stores. Anyway, my friends and I are on to the ploy of pushing bottled water and when the server asks us "Sparkling or still?" we respond "Tap is fine as we'll be drinking wine and beer all night!" That seems to get a smile from the server and they stop bugging us about the water since wine and beer is even more profitable. But if any waiter brings bottled water without being asked, a la Babbo, he's gonna hear it from me!