Ruby

Apologies in advance ... You should have brought her to THE WOMEN Christopher, Hah, that's so funny! I think she's one of The Women!

Over the years with many different friends, love interests and dining acquaintances, I've had my share of moments where I've felt embarrassed or bugged by something they did in a dining environment. Present friends excluded (in case they're reading I thought I'd share some. In no particular order: -- A guy friend cares zilch about atmosphere. If we're seated near the coat check or bathroom, it's okay with him and if anyone else protests he says it's not important and to lighten up. Once in Hawaii he accepted a table in a rotten area when we could have been seated outside on the deck with an ocean view. I protested and we sat outside. -- After playing 'table tennis' and exchanging bites of food, one ex of mine started to eat off my plate until I hardly had anything left to eat. -- Another guy friend says "not bad" when you ask him how the food is. It doesn't matter if it's La McDonald's or La Cote Basque. I finally told him that "not bad" was not complimentary and if I ever cooked anything for him he'd better say something else. He replied there are different levels of 'not bad' but he finally changed his wording to "pretty good." -- One woman acquaintance keeps leaving the table to have a smoke at the bar; even when somebody is telling a fun story which disrupts the attention span. She just gets up and disappears for 15 minutes. When she comes back she wants the storyteller to recap what she missed. We don't invite her too often. -- Two former girlfriends of mine brought a $2.99 bottle of sparkling cold duck to my New Year's Eve party and proceeded to drink all the good Champagne my other friends brought. -- Too many countless stories about dining acquaintances who don't divvy up their share of the check or inspect the check like an IRS auditor to see what they ate/drank. I'm sure I've done things at the table too and these anecdotes are written lightheartedly. So, what has annoyed/bugged you at the table. Did you do anything about it?

Foodboy, you're right and that was my point too. I know some prostitutes are still around but not like it was. In the 80s, I recall my exterminator, who made night calls, was looking for a place to park his van on Lexington Avenue but he was so fascinated staring at the pros that a police car pulled him over and asked what he was looking for!

Quote: "Most white Upper East Siders, needless to say, simply won't cross 96th Street." Steven, thanks again for clarifying but your original comment was the above and that's what I responded to. As the saying goes, sometimes 'less is more' and to also say 'needless to say' made it appear that this was a well-known fact carved in stone. That's what I responded to. I'm glad I did because now you've cleared the air with your last post. IMO New York City is changing/improving by the second and I really believe there are really no bad neighborhoods. Real estate developers just don't confine themselves to only certain boundaries. I remember when Lexington Avenue in the 20s was filled with prostitutes, pimps and drugs. When the first high-rise went up and they put up a sign that said 'The Joy of Lex" I thought they were nuts; who would want to live there. Well, try to get an apartment there now. It's happening all over and though some areas are still tougher and grittier than others, that's changing too.

Pan wrote: I agree that Avs. A, B, and to some extent C are more and more extensions of the East Village, but I also consider "East Village" a somewhat questionable name, and often use "Lower East Side" for the whole area, though that can give rise to some confusion among people who - as Bux mentioned - reserve the latter moniker for locations south of Houston." I kind of agree because Avenue A extends all the way down to Ludlow Street and East Houston Street so for that part of Avenue A, I do consider it the Lower East Side. Just to clear up any confusion for people not familiar with the area, Bux mentioned "reserve the latter moniker for locations south of Houston." That would mean EAST Houston Street. The term 'South of Houston' refers to the area now known as SoHo (south of West Houston Street). Slightly confusing. When I lived in SoHo on Prince Street, about 500 B.C., it was considered part of Little Italy. Now SoHo is broken up again with the area called NoLita (north of Little Italy) How's that for confusion to the average shlub who just wants to find a good restaurant?

"The Indian restaurants are in Rose Hill, yes?" Bux, yes the community district has been trying to get the name Rosehill designated as an official neighborhood. It's also affectionately called "Curry Hill." The neighborhood I live in also falls within one of those gray areas. I call it Murray Hill although I know it's officially not and others call it Kips Bay or Rosehill. Somehow, Murray Hill has more cachet plus my New York Magazine subscription label is printed Murray Hill, New York - I figure if it's good enough for the magazine and the post office delivers it, Murray Hill it is!

Tommy, your uncle is right. As a matter of fact, the East Village area was also known as the Lower East Side. There was a large population of Polish and Ukrainian people residing around St. Mark's Place. Some savvy real estate people came up with the East Village label somewhere in the late 50s or so to boost the prices. I used to get amused when young 'hipsters' proudly told me they lived in the East Village. I'd say "There was no such thing--it was made up. You're on the Lower East Side. Just because it's east of the West Village doesn't make it East Village." It's like calling the Chelsea neighborhood 'West Gramercy Park' (both of which have their own neighborhood identities). Anyway, I bet your uncle remembers lots of places that don't exist anymore.

Gramercy/Flatiron is an exciting neighborhood for creative innovative restaurants. I believe Danny Meyer is the trailblazer hands-down for opening his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, when the area was the pits. One couldn't walk through Union Square Park because it was overrun by drug dealers. Rents were also less and then other restos/cafes followed. Greenwich Village is wonderful for small, quaint cafes and restos and also has a great restaurant row on Cornelia Street. The Village has Babbo, Lupa and my favorite, Il Mulino, along with countless others and the fun of the area is walking around and 'discovering' a new place that hasn't been written up yet. The East Village and Lower East Side are fun, hip places where you can also get great food at non-chain restaurants. Wylie DuFresne of 71 Clinton Fresh Food brought Uptowners down to the Lower East Side with exciting creations. Others always follow with new places. Tribeca is another terrific 'best' neighborhood - think Bouley, Nobu, Chanterelle. The Le's and La's remain uptown on the East Side and we'll always have restaurant rows, East 55th, 56th, 58th that cater to the expense account suits. The West Side hell's Kitchen (Clinton) area has many cozy family-run cafes and they're great for the neighborhood and for theatergoers. Not a 'best' IMO but getting better and better. Also the Theater District is getting more exciting places where one doesn't just wind up on West 46th Street Restaurant Row. Brooklyn has become a destination for diners and new chefs. Walk down Smith Street and take your pick from Saul, Smith Street Kitchen and others. Park Slope is a wonderful neighborhood but the restaurants suffer the same problem as the Upper West Side (not enough terrific places to eat) but over on Fifth Avenue there is Al Di La and newer places like Vaux. So I can't really say there's any one 'best' (and I know, Steven, from your past posts you're not a fan of lists). but New York has it all. It's really a series of neighborhoods and cries out for walking and exploring. When I see posts from out-of-towners that say "I'm staying in such and such an area," where can I eat around there?" I want to say to them "Okay, here's a few near your hotel but please break out of the box and check out many more neighborhoods."

Wilfrid, is the holiday home in the South Bronx your weekend getaway?

Thanks for clarifying but I still don't see how blanket comments like this can be made. I don't want to sound smartass but did you take a poll or survey with every Upper East Sider? They don't all just dine at SaraBeth's. And the UES covers a large area from affluent Fifth Avenue way over to York Avenue. I don't intend to start a new thread because your review of One Fish Two Fish was definitely positive but that one comment really bothered me. I'm uptown very often and see a wide variety of races and nationalities. If anything I believe there are more whites and visiting tourists in the uptown area than ever before. The Sunday gospel at the Convent Avenue Church is very popular and Harlem restaurants and museums are now frequented by many people of different colors. This sort of reminds me of when people didn't go anywhere near Alphabet City. Roads stopped at First Avenue-St. Mark's Place. Avenue A was considered 'All Right'; Avenue B was 'Bad'; Avenue C was Cut-throat and D was 'Death. Well, look how this area changed and gentrified (not to everyone's liking). It's now a destination and New Yorkers (including UES) going past 96th Street is definitely happening too.

Quote: "Most white Upper East Siders, needless to say, simply won't cross 96th Street." Steven, I must take exception to your comment as I simply don't agree with it. Upper East Siders are not afraid to walk past Carnegie Hill and frequent other neighborhoods beyond 96th Street like Harlem, East Harlem and the Bronx and they don't take tour buses to get there. I've had some fine meals and heard good jazz uptown in Hamilton Heights. 'White folks' are even buying hot property in Harlem and our former president, Bill Clinton, likes it just fine. Unfortunately, comments like this reinforce an old stereotype. There are no more really bad neighborhoods in Manhattan. Of course, I wouldn't wander around in certain areas at 2 a.m. but I'd use that common sense anywhere.

Yvonne, here's some in Manhattan to wet your whistle. I also found some really nice Irish pubs in Bay Ridge but don't remember their names. They were all on Third Avenue if you're ever in that area. Bay Ridge is a great neighborhood to explore. Half King, 505 W. 23 St. (delish burgers) Smithfield, 115 Essex St. Toad Hall, 57 Grand St. Pete's Tavern, 129 E. 18 St. Viceroy (nice front bar-mostly a restaurant) 18th St. & 8th Ave. Telephone Bar & Grill, 149 2nd Ave. Waterfront Ale House, 30th St. & 2nd Ave. (great selection of draft beers + terrific burgers). Cheers and Happy Days :)

And your point is??

Steven, I wasn't advocating 'lists' or trying to dictate what others post...not at all. I thought my post was clear but I guess not, from your comments.As a native New Yorker, I do a tremendous amount of walking in Manhattan and also explore the other boroughs (except for Staten Island). During my walks my radar is always on high for new or unique restaurants, bistros, etc. I'll go into a restaurant, explore the room, get a business card and make a mental note to come back if it looks promising. I've taken great pride in introducing my friends to places that haven't been 'discovered' by Zagat and foodies. I like to share my discoveries and have listed some since I joined this site in September. However, I have noticed a tendency on these threads for discussions that go on and on about Babbo, Lupa, Gramercy Tavern, yada yada. If you'll read some of my past posts, I've tried to 'coax' (not dictate) others into sharing their favorites and guess what comes back?? Right! :) I'm not saying other posts are not valuable or fascinating-I've gotten lots of insightful information about places I've wanted to try and haven't as yet. You may notice some ex-Chowhound people on these boards now (myself included) and I can tell who they are just by how they share their dining experiences. Again, this is not a criticism or blowing our horn-just an observation. In closing, I have started many new posts, for 'crying out loud' and if you'll look at the number of responses received, there are other likeminded people who have joined in.

I tend to agree with Pan. Love the eGullet site but I've also noticed the same 'superstars' are consistently mentioned here. This isn't a *bad thing but there are so many other places in NYC. I hope we'll get more chowcentric - *Zagat (big yawn) also lists the usual suspects like Gramercy Tavern, Babbo. They're great but like the old Peggy Lee song goes 'Is that all there is?'As an avid restaurant hound, I'm always on the lookout for new, offbeat, off the beaten track restos and cafes where: (1) you don't have to necessarily sit at the bar to eat because tables are always filled up; (2) dinner doesn't come to half a month's rent; (3) it hasn't been discovered by Zagat's yet; (4) it's not a mini chain and the chef and staff care as much about food as I do. Guess you get the idea. I've put out past recommendations on these boards and am always happy to share (even though word of mouth often ruins a place) but IMO that's what it's all about.

I enjoy Rosemount (Australia). I've had the Shiraz, and a blend of Cabernet-Merlot and another blend that I can't remember. It's on sale right now at Astor Wines on Astor Place for about ů.99 a bottle.

Yvonne, the food and service was excellent at The Place. We split an app of mussels in a wine saffron broth that was delish and a generous portion. My sweetheart had cod with pureed vegies and I had salmon. I'd like to be more descriptive of the dishes but have a short attention span. Wine was moderately priced. The hit of the evening was a dessert (I couldn't come up with two choices so I asked the waitress, Debra, to surprise me.) It was a winner-chocolate martini-very mousselike in a martini glass with some kind of liquore in it. The other dessert was a molten chocolate cake. Prices were moderate; two glasses of wine to start, a bottle of merlot, one app, two mains and two desserts came to about 贉.00. Seating is a bit close in the front room and there's another room in the back (that you can't see from the street) that has little nooks where two can feed each other chocolate martinis! :) I hate the term 'dating' myself and feel it's a throwback to teenybopper days but it seems people are into dating. Maybe it's shorthand for "I don't want to commit and just want to date."

The difference is a bit abstract to explain. For me the difference is when I'm with someone I like romantically, all my attention is on that person and not the food though good food and wine is still important. The ambiance should be more subdued and blend in, not take over. When I'm with friends, the ambiance doesn't have to be candlelight or as intimate. Well, anyone experiencing the thrill of a new exhilarating relationship can explain or know the difference. What makes a place 'romantic' is also subjective but I guess I've seen so many Cary Grant movies...I know it when I see it. :)

Eric, Thank you for posting! I love the garden at Barolo as well as relaxing on the 'deck' at Water Club. So much water around Manhattan Island and we should take advantage of that. I was starting to feel like I was the only one that had any romance going here but I know that's not true. What's up with this? It seems every post has the same ole: Babbo, Lupa, Gramercy...there's more to NYC than this. They're good but c'mon already...

Hey, where's everybody? I just thought of some more: Date: The Terrace (near Columbia U) Friends: Komodo, Guernica, Le Tableau Hope to get some input - I know I'm not the only one who dates and has a few friends ;)

I don't maintain lists but there are definite categories I have for dates and getting together with friends. Some are good for both. Let's all share: DATES (no particular pecking order) Lavagna Alley's End Mooza (garden) Miracle Grill (East Village-Garden) The Place Paris Commune Verbena One if by Land, Two if by Sea - cocktails near fireplace FRIENDS: Alley's End East Post Il Mulino Mooza Katz's Les Halles Grand Szechuan Maj Mahal Oliva El Cid Others to follow when I recall them.

Hear hear. Couldn't have said it better.

I've stopped buying muffins from a former favorite shop because, more than once, I've found long black coarse rodent hairs in the flour. Instant turnoff. The FDA may say a certain amount is acceptable but it's not for me. Here's a tip for everyone to avoid cockroaches in their own home: Do NOT save paper bags from anywhere. Roaches love them and they don't like the plastic ones. I remember once I was on a bus with a doggy bag from 40 Carrots at Bloomingdale's: a small family of roaches scurried out of the bag. Oooh, yuck feh! Get rid of those brown bags.

So do the roaches! ;)