Dom W

sorry Bill I thought after I had posted that perhaps I should have been more specific. the 'white' flour is unbleached organic plain white flour, 11.5g protein (Kialla, Australia) the 00 flour is an Italian white flour (Mollini Pizzuti), 11.9g protein cheers Dom

Bill, I have tried a number of different formulas for sourdough ciabatta. This is the one that I have found gives a loaf with the lightest, most open texture. The technique is a variation of the Peter Reinhart a l'ancienne technique. Dough * 200g starter (at 60% hydration) * 425g water * 340g white flour * 160g 00 white flour * 10g salt * 3g malt The dough is mixed then put in the fridge overnight. The next day it is taken out and allowed to bulk ferment with folds every hour until it is light and bubbly (slashing the surface reveals a rich network of bubbles) It is then divided (the above formula makes two) folded one last time into a rough rectangle (no more shaping than that), and left to prove (seam side up) for another 2/3/4 hours on a well-floured tea-towel. I very gently stretch it when it is flipped onto a peel, then shovel it into the oven turned up to max. Steam as you would normally. turn the oven down to a more sensible temperature to finish the bake. hope this helps cheers Dom

Kevin, my starter is at 60% hydration, so is a slightly sticky but firm dough after it is mixed. After 12 hours (at warm room temp) it has doubled in volume, and is much softer in texture. I don't have a set time for proving out of the fridge - it depends on the behaviour of the dough, and also when I get home from work... When the kitchen was warm (high 20s C) it took only 3 hours for the dough to warm up, and have a very light bubbly, airy feel to it. It takes longer when the kitchen is not so warm, and I have left the dough 4 to 5 hours (or more). I don't have a set time for proving after that. As you will have gathered I am still trying various permutations. I have baked about 3/4 hour after shaping, 3 hours after shaping (overproved), or put in the fridge and baked the next morning. The flavour of the sourdough pain a l'ancienne is different from the yeast version, insofar as it has an additional sourness. With a long period in the fridge this sourness tends to be more marked. hope this helps cheers Dom

This weekend: Ciabatta a l'ancienne (there's a nice muddle of languages) the first of these was proved at room temp after shaping, the second went back in to the fridge and was baked from cold this morning. Jack will probably tell me that the first was overproved, and the second underproved - and I am sure that he is right. I have posted the recipe that I used, more pictures and the two different proving regimens used on my (neglected) blog cheers Dom

Kevin, It is interesting that you raise this question now, as I have been experimenting with Peter Reinhart's recipe in the last couple of weeks, as well as a sourdough version of it. Here is my current schedule - as posted on the sourdough Australia website. http://www.sourdough.com.au/forum//viewtopic.php?t=591 I have been playing around with two different things - Peter Reinhart's pain a l'ancienne, and some of the techniques discussed in the Jim Lahey recipe in the New York Times. This is the result 'Pain au levain a l'ancienne', a sourdough version of the Reinhart recipe at 80% hydration with almost no kneading. Day 1 evening Starter 10g (22%) Water 25g (56%) Flour 45g (100%) Day 2 morning Starter 60g (60%) (a little less than all of the above, so you can put some aside) Water 60g (60%) Flour 100g (100%) Day 2 evening Dough: Starter 200g (40%) Water 425g (85%) Flour 500g (100%) Salt 10g (2%) Dough is mixed briefly, then put straight in the fridge for 24 hours. Then fold at hourly intervals for 3-5 hours (depending on how warm a day it is). Shape. Put back in fridge for 12-48 hours. Bake from cold. I don't use Jack's food processor technique, as my machine doesn't cope with it. My current version uses minimal kneading, and as you suggest, I too stretch and fold after the initial period of retarding. I haven't done the controlled experiment, but my impression is that the best results that I obtain have been with a longer period of folding and rising (bulk ferment) before shaping. I usually prove at room temp, so my timings are longer than Jack's, but I have followed his lead, and usually bake the dough from the fridge. Because of the enormous oven spring I have had recent success with baking this dough in a covered pot (see thread on the Jim Lahey recipe) cheers Dom

Dan, great recipe, and as always your dedication and generosity to those you teach is inspiring. I didn't have enough garlic to make the original today, so made a version of this bread laminating in raisins tossed in cinnamon instead. Don't have any pictures to show off, but it made fantastic bread. I plan to also give it a go with olives (instead of the raisins, not as well!). I am always trying to convert recipes to sourdough, and was interested in your suggestion a couple of posts back to fold in the 'garlic' (or whatever else I guess) after bulk fermentation has shown clear signs of fermentation. That might mean 3 or 4 folds at hourly intervals. Then after folding in the garlic once, would you repeat the folds (say at hourly intervals?) before final shaping. (In the original there were two more folds after adding in the garlic) And then how long would you leave for a final rise? (Normally I would leave for 3 to 4 hours at room temperature before baking, but if I had folded during that time would it be reduced?) (enjoy Berlin) cheers Dom

After chatting To Dan Lepard at a baking class in Melbourne in the last couple of days I think I can offer an insight into why the active starter from your local bakery might suddenly lose activity. Dan described a similar phenomenon in starters when their environment is suddenly changed. For example I have seen this previously when changing from refreshing my starter with a white flour to a rye flour. The starter activity suddenly drops. Apparently the reason for this is related to the yeasts in the starter reacting to a changed environment by forming spores instead of reproducing. They will do this if there is a sudden change in flour or water. On the other hand, if their conditions are returned to the ones that they were previously accustomed to, the starter will come back to life (so to speak)! Starter cultures can however be 'taught' to like a different environment by making changes gradually. For example, by introducing gradually increasing proportions of rye flour in the refreshment. So the bakery starter is probably reacting to a change in the flour and water that it is used to by going into hibernation. It might be worthwhile finding out what flour the bakery use to feed their starter. If you can get some of that flour, then you may well find that the starter behaves better. You could then introduce gradually the flour that you intend to use at home, until the starter is accustomed to it. Alternatively you could try creating a starter from scratch using the flour that you intend to keep using. It isn't as hard as it seems. There are lots of descriptions around of how to do it. In the last week I have been posting daily updates on an Australian sourdough forum comparing a couple of different methods for making a starter. Starter Experiment Blog cheers Dom

Dan's technique makes for fantastic grainy (but soft) bread. To start you could try using 10% whole grains (10% of dry flour weight) Simmer in boiling water for half an hour. Then soak overnight in water (or even better in ale or wine). The next day drain and incorporate the grains. 50g of dry grain will yield about 125g of simmered and soaked grain. cheers Dom

Jack Here is a picture of the finished loaf (toasted). I used wholewheat rather than spelt flour. It ended up more of a frisbee than a boule (looks like Tepee had a similar experience). It is a fairly moist crumb (probably needed longer in the oven), and not as light as yours. I suspect that I didn't get either the intensity or duration of mixing from my food processor that you managed to. Nevertheless it has great flavour. The long retardation (in fact mine was in the fridge for 36 hours) gives it a great sour flavour. If you were to hand mix it, would you still add the vitamin C? Can you get the lightness and air holes in a 100% wholemeal loaf that is hand-mixed? cheers Dom

Jack, I don't know whether other people have had this experience, but my food processor (a good quality domestic model) had a fit of pique trying to process this dough for three minutes. After a minute and a half it ground to a halt, and I thought that I had burned out the motor. Thankfully I hadn't, and giving it a bit of a break, and stirring the dough a bit I convinced the processor to give me another thirty seconds or so. Your food processor must have more stamina. You also mentioned vitamin C in your post, and include it in your baguette a l'ancienne recipe, but it isn't in the spelt boule recipe. I have read Dan Lepard talking about adding vitamin C or orange juice to wholemeal loaves, and wondered whether this had been omitted from your recipe. I added 5g of Vitamin C. Dough is in the fridge, I'll post a picture of the end product. cheers Dom