Vadouvan
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Posts posted by Vadouvan
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This thread keeps getting Hilarious....
A circulating bath for $20 to $40 ????
Tell you what. I will personally hand over $500 to anyone who can produce such a device.
Requirements.
1. Water must circulate.
2. Temperature must be measured in increments of tenths of 1 degree.
3.Bath must be insulated
4. After insertion of product, must be able to maintain the exact temperature of 55.8 degrees for
3 hrs wthout variation of more than 2 degrees at any time.
5. Itemized and verifiable source material cost.
6. For purposes of fairness, I will double your cost lattitude to $80.
let me know when you are done.
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Correct SLkinsey...
Not to get off topic...
I'm sorry but smoked meat from applewood, alder, cherry or mesquite tastes nothing like liquid smoke. We should be resistant to diminishing food to completely artificial ingredients.
Most people after tasting the real thing can taste the difference. This is why good fod cost money.
It always interesting to see the faces of people who have eaten in lame japanese restaurants all the time and had things as simple as miso soups made with, Hondashi,Dashi no moto or shiro dashi.
Its quite a revelation when actual Kombu and Bonito is used to make the dashi.
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There is nothing wrong with vaccum packing, more than 30% of the commercial supermarket food you eat has been vaccum packed at some point.You seem to be looking at things with an overly simplistic approach but also with a deficit of factual information that erodes any point you are trying to make.
Your knowledge of cooking technique doesnt guide what you like, what it guides is its perception of how you recieve a dish and guides you from making statements that show you have no clue what you are talking about. That was the problem with Ms bakhoum.
For example, "the osso buco was overcooked and mushy"
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No you cant get the same results.
Roasting meat in the oven at 65 degrees C still results in about 30% moisture loss over sous vide.
You simply cant compare the vaccum with an open chamber cooking method.
That's BS.
The crockpot argument is also absurd. Sous vide in its most precise form with a circulating waterbath cant be duplicated any other way.
The key is the near constant temperature over a long period.
Twodogs shows what is possible if you are creative and know what you are doing.
We could continue having this discussion on if sous vide is the future or whether it is real cooking....
At the end of the day, it comes down to fear and ignorance.
People who are resistant to evolution tend to be the biggest hypocrites because they are advocating doing things the traditional way without haven actually sampled the best results of new methods.
As Philadining said, go to the best places that use it creatively and you may be suprised.
I just wish people wouldnt tell us they have seen the future of cooking when thier heads are stuck in the sand.
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Actually Philadining, Wawa *IS* doing sous vide.
So often in the food world, a technical term from another language tends to be attached only to the most refined execution or the art.
If you are dipping vaccum packed food into hot water, whether it is with an attched thermocouple at Alinea or just slam dunking it at Wawa, it is sous vide.
Of course the results are vastly different (no offense to chef G), but technically it is the same process albeit slightly refined.
It kinda like that annoying trend last year when it seems everything was "A la Plancha".....jeeez!
The scrambled eggs at Ruby's diner on route 66 are "a la Plancha".
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Agreed Doc and Bryan.
Sous vide is here to stay especially when it comes to banquet style events. It just makes the cooking and holding much better and consistent for all portions.
While it isnt going to replace traditional cooking, it certainly will carve out its place.
I think we are only on the tip of the iceberg so far.
Sous vide could in the next 5 to 10 yrs make an entry into the domestic market for reheating food.
It would just depend in a particular appliance becoming cheaper and more common.
The combi-oven with selectable steam to heat ratio.
So far only a few domestic models are out there like gaggenau but it does an amazing job with sous vide especially for fish.
Speaking of shaking water baths, while you wouldnt use it for sous vide cooking, what it does do brilliantly is holding sauces for high speed plate assembly.
Helped a caterer with a wedding last year, 75 people. All sauces were portioned out into impact resistant test tubes, capped and inserted into a shaker bath. It holds it at exact temp with no reduction or evaporation and the shaking seems to help anything from seperating.
We cant have a defeatist attitude and say its just "FUFU".
You just have to think outside the pot and figure out sensible applications.
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It would be interesting to see if they actually erase the supplements.
Word is that may have happened already.
Disturbing that the "food press" has that much power.
Speaking of "those who can afford it"
Stopped by there for a drink, they were booked for a private party.
Seems someone coughed up upwards of $75K in my estimation.The phrase should be changed from
I love NY to "welcome to NY, there is always someone richer than you"
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My point about the canapes and amuse were that even though they are given to everyone, if you removed them from the dinner, the sum total cost of the rest of the actual food (without supplements) you are served barely makes it under a 32% food cost if it does at all. I bet those amuse and canapes require a dedicated person or two in the kitchen, that's $30 to $55k a year in labor.
I would just charge $125 and eliminate the supplements.
We all should not forget the power of two numbers as opposed to three in price attraction but then again, this is NYC, people are buying $1M plus raw space condos.
I am preeeety sure the target base clients dont care...
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Wines, definitely on the expensive side.
I would estimate the cost in terms of ingredients, time and labor to make all the canapes and amuse bouches is the reason they are forced to supplement.
Nothing comes free....
In the end, it works for me but I personally think supplements on so many Items are a turn off for most people.
We shall see, right now it is hovering between a two and a 3 star review.
I see it as Brunis shot across the bow saying WTF, get your Shi zzzz together.
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The show was excellent.
While i still think Wd 50 is brilliant and deserves credit for his continuation of evolution and sourcing ingredients.........I cant help but say that the cocept of "seafood noodles" has been around for a hundred years. The "nimono" section of kaiseki meals always had fish noodles in Nimono made with Surimi (fish paste). Eggs were used to generate the result.
Somewhere in this thread, there is a patent application for seafood noodles by WD-50, that would be like applying for a patent for pasta which is highly questionable.
The Japanese have done it for years and years, the use of transglutaminase only makes it undiluted but that in itself does not make it patent worthy.
The tool you are referring to on the show is called a "SHIBORIKI".
An extremely rare cooking tool which is basically a japanese spaetzle press. they come with a single hole die like wylie used and a shower head multiple hole die for squeezing out a stream of noodles.
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Cmon Gulleteers.....You are much more sophisticated than that.....
OF COURSE...the requirements to be a judge on the show have nothing to do with qualifications.
Its all about PR and media savviness/connections.
Everyone knows only Steingarten was the only qualified Judge for last nights show.
The queer eye dude was only picked for media recognition and the PR woman for connections.
Clearly, I am not opposed to them being Judges on ICA but just not that show.
I think one of the biggest achilles heels of the show is that they have random judges (at least I am assuming they do), and sometimes, the judges dont fit the style of the chef.
There are much more qualified people to judge last nights show.
Senor RW Apple for one....
I havent liked everything I have eaten at WD but the sucessful dishes were fab and required some element of intellectual thought to understand the flavor pairings.
It only makes sense to at least pick people who are receptive of the style of cuisine.
The woman *wasnt* receptive to Wylies cooking style which is fine but that ought to make her ineligible to judge last nights show. I dont think the fact that the judges are predisposed to having some interest in the cuisine of the chef would be "shilling", if anything...it would make the opinion much more meaningful.
Can you Imagine the the Devi guys (Suvir et al) being on the show and one of the judges doesnt like Indian food or spices ?
Apologies to the women, I am not being sexsist but duuuuuuuuuuuuude.... she just didnt get it.
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I have to say Wylie was truly inspirational last night, with all due respect, the woman judge probably had limited prior consumption of fish cooked sous-vide and basically had no clue.
Regardless of how you feel about WD's food,Inspiration,flavors, yadi yada......probably one of the top 3 Iron chef shows to date.
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What's up with the website ?
Just curious....?
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Not in Any order....but all vividly remembered.
Porcini risotto Cafe Gray
Uni and Toro tasting Menu ....Yasuda
Smoked salmon belly on binco tan Charcoal.....Megu
Foie Gras Skewers........Megu
Ris de Veau.........Casa Mono
Razor Clams a la plancha....... casa mono
Bread Service..........Gilt
Hush puppies...........maroons
Callotte of Ribeye.....Per Se
Pepper oil.........WD 50
Oxtail Rav/squab liver sauce.....Babbo
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None of that stuff is nasty, go to sunrise mart on broome just before west broadway and buy some NATTO BEANS.....now thats some truly nasty stuff, makes a morgue smell like provence in july.
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Good report BryanZ, everybody was at Gilt last night.
It must stand for GET IN LINE TODAY !!!
Then we all ran down to Pegu to discuss the finer points his WD-50 meal last night with the king of all paparazzi..Philadining.
I had another great meal at gilt last night too so here it is.
GILT..part Deux.
ROOM :
"Roxaaaaaane, you dont have to put on the red light..."
Those days are over (Le cirque), you dont have to sell your body to the night......haha
Glad they removed all that neon crap.
the room is stunning but i personally prefer the backlighting to be a normal color against the wood panelling. Red light just has too much of a clubby feel.
Open kitchen doesnt really intrude on the dining room.
in any case small quibbles.
SERVICE:
Still just as polished. I kinda understand Bryan's point in comparison to Alinea and PerSE.
Per Se just has a ton of space between the tables and its frankly easy to be graceful when you have enough space to land an f-18 between the tables.
Alinea on the other hand.....engaging can be interpreted as "solicitous" which is fine since most Alinea dishes come with instructions from the kitchen.
FOOD :
The things we tried last time were just as good (refer to old post).
Amuses, canapes, flavors of winter.
I have to agree with Bryan, while the sea urchin was good, I rather prefer pure sea urchin from my best sushi experiences. It seemed like it could have benefited from just a touch of caviar to add some brinyness and counterpoint against the urchin mousse and the foam.
Very good though but at the end of the day, I would rather have it plain.
I think that's why the japanese call it Uni, best served Uni-laterally.
NEW DISHES :
Had the same foie Bryan had but ours was covered in a beet Gelee.
Quince cream, nori tuile.
Sunchoke Brandade with green peppercorn tuile was delicious
Fennel and Smoked bacon royale which was very complex.
Bread were just as delicious, the brioche as I said earlier is to die for as is the new chestnut bread.
Eel croquette was interesting but all my previous eel consumptions have been lampreys or Unagi so this was kinda new to me.
Squash soup (golden nugget) with chorizo chips and rabitt rillette "millefuille" with squash tuiles
very good. pure squash flavor, no cream.
Sweetbreads with tamarillo croquant and glazed carrots/turnips.
Excellent.
SIDEBAR your honor....
I keep going to all these fancy ass restaurants in NY Gilt, JG,Danny's (Boulud and Meyer),Ducasse, perse...........and nobody still has better sweetbreads than the banging almond crusted sweetbreads with fennel pollen at Casa Mono.
Finished with the RIBeye for two.
Four story hills farm, grass fed beef........quite incredible for not even being Wagyu.
Super buttery, great texture.
After the Foie, sweetbreads and beef, I started getting these gastro-syncopish hallucinations of walking down the dark corridor of death row, except instead of other prisoners in the cells, it was cardiologists in thier white jackets whispering....."dead man walking"
All in all, another fantastic meal.
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katie..... herein lies the problem with working in HOTEL restaurants.
The Fine dining guys.....
FOUNTAIN
LACROIX
put so much energy into making sure the food is the "best".
luxe ingredients, fancy plates.
but they dont have such lattitude on the casual side....
SWAN LOUNGE
BOAT HOUSE ROW
using general Sysco crap and miscellaneous foodservice "BS".
Sublimated to the reason why ?
the answer is the 4 word phrase every chef dreads hearing....
Take a guess ?
"Food and Beverage Manager"
Nice posting of the menu by the way daniel.
the filet and crabmeat sounds like something you would order in deep south philly, whats going on over there at the 4 seasons ?
My biggest pet peeve in the world..."Boursin Cheese"
Boursin is cheese as much as Whiz is cheese, nothing wrong with it but it just aint cheese.
I guess you can tell i didnt sleep too well last night.
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I am not quite suprised, the 4 seasons in philadelphia is overpriced. It rested on its laurels a long time ago after Lacroix left. JML would never allow frozen fries.
That's the interesting thing about those who care and those who just say they care.
What's the point of Martin hamman and david Jansen talking about how carefully herbs are picked and salads are washed if you cant get a goddamn mandoline and cut some fries ?
Bouchon serves hand cut fries, forget about Keller..even LOIE serves hand cut fries.
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"living Sous-Vida loca"....
That just may be the funniest thing I have ever heard.
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Flinflon28.......No problem brother........glad you enjoyed it.
Fantastic place and a greatly inspirational meal.
You review was right on.
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Greetings Percy....
SOUS-VIDERY 102
LOBSTER:
Refer to the French Laundry cookbook on Blanching lobsters so they remail uncooked.
Use the icebath to cool them down.
Cut lenghtwise.
Dry completely.
Season with Maldon salt.
Into the cryobag, Lobster tail, 1 tb unsalted butter,superthin slice ginger,3 thin slices from the lower stalk of lemongrass.
Chill the bag *unsealed*
Seal and cook in 58C water bath about 15 minutes (color changes to pink, barely past opaque)
Works for shrimp, prawns,Yabbies, bay bugs, langoustines et al.
No need to sear after that, defeats the whole point.
If you want a seared lobster, just sear it.
Leave it in the half shell after blanching, dry thoroughly,season with kosher salt and or spices.
Heat grapeseed oil till barely smoking.
Sear face down for about 45 seconds, flip it to the shell side and turn off the heat.
Leave it in the pan on the stove, do nothing.
let it sit 2 minutes.
DONE.
SOUS-VIDERY 103
DUCK:
1st off, avoid lame ducks.
Buy the Grimaud Farms Muscovy Drake breast from d'artagnan/whole foods.
Go back to page 233 of your Laundry cookbook.
"SQUAB SPICE"
Modify the recipe as follows :
Cinnamon to 1 full stick
Coriander, delete,replace with 2 TB fennel.
Cloves reduce to 1 tsp
4 Spice powder Delete, replace with.....
4 whole star anise
2 TB Sichuan peppercorns or Sansho Berries.
Follow the recipe as regards, toasting, sifting, storage.
For porposes of humor, you can label it "Epice de Canard"...haha...you seem like a "brother P-touch" kinda guy Percy.
By the way this works great with the above seared lobster.
Back to the ducks.
Score the skin without getting to the flesh.
Season with kosher salt and spice mix
Wrap in saran with fresh thyme and laurel.
Refrigerate about 2 hrs (dry marination).
Put it in the freezer to superchill it for 30 mins.
Remove herbs.
Sear over medium heat in a cast iron pan with no oil.
The only thing you are tring to achieve is render fat and Start to crisp the skin.
the freezing reduces heat penetration so it stays raw. (very important).
As fat renders, tilt pan and spoon it out.
You only want skin surface contact with the pan, renders fat quicker.
Cook till just barely golden.
Cool fast in Freezer again.
NOW you can Sous-Vide it.
Water bath 56C for about 2 hrs.
After sous-vide, you should sear it *quickly* to crisp skin and brown the other side lightly.
It should be a perfect rosy medium rare and tender......"redolent of spices" as philadining would say..man that dudes a poet.
Have fun.
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Very Nice Philadining...hee hee !
Very nice indeed.
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Not a Chef Yet.....Just a super serious enthusiast.
Like William Shatner said on the old star trek......."dont call me captain till we get back to the enterprise".
On a serious note, knowledge of the use of circulators/thermal water baths for sous-videry is now commonplace that the use of the term does not neccesarily mean you are a chef.....some of us just pay attention to whats going on in this cooking revolution.
Long before I joined the Gullet, I was reading the Soap Opera "The Alinea Chronicles" where the character ChefG (Achatz) posted a picture of all the Polyscience Goodies.
"Like kelcoGEL in an hourglass, so are the days of our lives...at Alinea"
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I think you misunderstand my previous statement....
2 Points.
1. The staff at GILT is Faaaaaaaar from Uninformed. They know everything about everything they served. Even the freaking hostess walked by the table and gave food descriptions off the top of her head.
2. No one was taken advantage of, we asked for Oil, they poured it.
Each bottle of Manni Oil wholesale costs $26, the problem is they only sell 10 bottles at a time.
One fifth of the bottle cost the restaurant $5.25
Not to be pretentious about money but despite the quality and price of the Oil, $5.25 isnt a big deal when you go to a restaurant and spend $300 on food, $7 for an espresso and $12 for bottled water.....Plus wine and Tip 30%
$510.
Admittedly, we drank very little wine but we morphed 3 ...3 course tastings into 2..5 course tastings.
Most high end kitchens use those first few days to get thier sea legs.
Although they are willing to please, they certainly were not being taken advantage of.
GILT is super well financed.....A couple of bottles of Oil isnt going to break the bank when you have like 6 circulators buzzing away in the kitchen with 10 plus cooks and huge Bonnet stoves.
Is Sous Vide "Real Cooking"?
in Cooking
Posted · Edited by Vadouvan (log)
No way on relaxing the requirements.
See the theory is ...I just dropped a little over a grand on a Techne water bath a few moons ago and it works brilliantly.
Temp can be adjusted in increments of 0.1 degrees.
I can leave it on for 4 days without any evaporation because they were brilliant enough to make sure the lid condenses the rising steam back into the bath.
SO.....I would like one of these would be Mcgyvers to prove to me that I am a dumbass and i could have spent much less money.
Here is an additional restriction.
7. keep a record of all the time involved in this production much like an attorney's billable hours and multiply by minimum wage and add it to the cost.
Thanks.