ulterior epicure

I thought all of this was about tomfoolery! Okay, seriously... Ahem...

This is all very funny reading for someone who doesn't have the Chinese fonts enabled!! u.e.

Although it's somewhat pixelated, that looks like the "real deal."u.e.

Weatherby Lake, IIRC -- that was how the conversation got started... Judy, I hope you're not under some witness protection program... Unless you think 20 miles is "near," I assure you your are not RC... as a Northlander, I assure you, Weatherby is not considered "near" Bonner Springs. u.e.

joiei. thanks for starting this thread about an exciting new place down in tulsa! i have a very good buddy down there whom i've been threatening to visit - looks like i have another good reason to do so! i apologize - i'm not familiar with this restaurant and am confused by the set-up. so kokoa is normally a chocolatier, but is open on the last wednesday of each month for food? that's an odd set-up. at least from the way your prix-fixe menu reads, it seems that it's far too sophisticated for it to be worth the once a month doing - and a chocolate store? is there dining room? full kitchen? does he employ caterers on the night of to help serve and cook in the back? re: savory tuile. was it a parmesan crisp shaped into a cup? Like what's sitting under the scallop in this dish, except for in cup form? re: chocolate custard. what kind of white truffles do you mean? if this were a restaurant (in the usual sense), i would pretty much assume you were talking about the pungent ground spores from italy (which isn't really in season right now any more) - even if it was on a dessert (see here and here for examples). but, since this dinner is at a place named kokao (a play on cocoa i assume?) chocolatier, then i have to pause and wonder if you're not referring to white (chocolate) truffles. u.e.

... yeah, yeah... "Misery?" Honey, you just slipped up and now we know how you really feel. Just admit it, you're slummin' it with Zeemanb and me on this side... Nevertheless, we'll take what we can. How good are you at chuckin' peppers and eggplants? u.e.

Alas, your suggestion could have been fulfilled had I not scarfed down the last of it just a couple of hours ago! u.e.

ronnie! Thanks! What a pleasant surprise to get word of what Gamba is doing! u.e.

... and, if you think the Shanghainese are all about sugar - what about those Cantonese folk? ← Cantonese use a lot of sugar in cooking? I've never noticed excessive sweetness unless you are talking about the bastardized Chinese food such as sweet 'n' sour pork, etc. In Toisanese cooking, I do use a pinch of sugar to balance the salt and MSG. I don't use soy sauce much in my daily cooking, only if I were making soy sauce chicken, or master sauce braising. ← To be sure, the Chinese aren't sweet-tooths generally. I'm not talking saccharin but I do think that many authentic Cantonese/Toisanese dishes tend to indulge on the sweeter side - Tsa shui pork (Chinese "BBQ" pork) and their use of Chinese sausages. Some of their sauces as well are often more sweet than many other regional Chinese cuisines. They also have a way with desserts - bean pastes, the use of coconut, and tropical fruits... that's what I meant. Perhaps not the use of sugar, per se, I guess I should amend my earlier statement to mean that I find that Cantonese cuisine tends to feature some sweeter tasting foods. u.e.

...this thread has become about tomfoolery in more than one sense! Katie Nell, I'm sure us Northlanders could easily distract you with a nice thick slice of something sweet topped off with some kind of frozen cream! As for wench, we could just repel you by chucking peppers and eggplants at you! We may be poor and unsophisticated, but we ain't dumb! u.e.

Yup... and that ain't glue when you see milk in my pictures!! Neither are those scoops of "whipped shortening" I'm eating!!

... I moved here for this? Shees, I leave eGullet Heartland for a day and look what it's turned into! u.e.

Did it look like this? u.e.

hapacooking. Thanks for the detailed report. I'm sorry to hear that you had such an off experience. I've only had one meal there and was very satisfied - although I'm not sure if the FOH service had been changed (it was just this past mid-May). The service was by far the worse part of our meal - and it was that bad, we just happen to get a number of servers toward the beginning of the meal who a bit "green" to the menu. (Lots of questions returned with a, "I don't know, but I'll go ask the kitchen.") After they saw that we were somewhat more inquisitive about the food than the average folk, they adjusted and we got a more seasoned server showing up about 1/3 of the way through the meal - an appreciated and acknowledged adjustment. You've had now a number of experiences, and I surely don't doubt that by comparison, this one was not up to your expectactions or the restaurants standards. Sorry to hear that it happened on your wedding anniversary. Was this the Mesquite-grilled foie? If so, it's hard to imagine it overcooked. Dry? I'm not doubting you, but I'm just having a hard time imagining dry cold foie gras. Now warm foie gras, I've had dry before - I think because they sauteed/grilled all of the fat out of it and all that was left were the liver solids. To be honest, I've had suckling pig a number of times, and have never had a moist tender cut before. The meat tends to be stringy and dry. I think the attractiveness of the suckling, for me at least, is the crackling.

From my experience (very authentic)... it's usually served room temperature, if not COLD. Somehow, it does just taste better cold - I think it's because the kao fu is just too flabby soft if it's hot. When cold, you get more texture. I forgot to mention - I'm also 99% sure that cooking wine is added when you make kao fu. Just wasn't sure on the sugar. ... and, if you think the Shanghainese are all about sugar - what about those Cantonese folk?

... you can't... Ditto. Yeah, not even Emeril has been able to bring about the invention of the "smell-o-vision" AND. Piggy-backing off of wench's statement: I have travelled quite a bit and have eaten things in places I don't think many have or would ever consider. Wench's thread link in her above post is one good example. So is my latest meal at a Kansas City restaurant, Lucky Wok. If you look at the pictures from that meal, you'd think I was at a dogs' table. But, I assure you, some of those dishes tasted much better than anything I've had in a lot of "fine dining" establishments. And for what it's worth, even though I LOVE taking pictures of food - not all food photographs well. As any photographer, amateur or profession, can attest, lighting is key. Restaurants are not studios. The lighting in these establishments are to flatter (read: obscure) people - "mood" lighting, not "food" lighting. That being said, I do stress again that I am an AMATEUR... had I, ohsayamilliondollars, sure, I could have arrived geared with a professional camera with a lens that cost more than ten Avenues meals and made food porn... I agree, tastes are different. My descriptions of the food are, of course, only mine. That's why it was so fun to have had the same tasting as wench, but then simul-posted our respective reactions to note the differences in taste. gaya, based on what you have posted, I doubt you'd be interested in visiting the Avenues. But, if you do ever go, I would love to hear your reactions to actually eating Elliot's creations. I didn't *LOVE* everything on the menu. I made my delights and disappointments clear. As well, I don't think that the plating on every course was drop-dead gorgeous. I've even admitted that the unravelled lamb course did look sloppy. Regardless, the taste and preparation of these dishes, to me, must be and can be separated from their appearance. As well, part of appreciating a chef and a meal, in my opinion, is not only how the food tastes (that, of course is pinultimate), rather how everything works in concert. One can only have so many favorites - and to expect them all to show up in one meal would nearly be impossible - for some, that would require 12 straight courses of foie gras... for others, like me, the ballpark widens to a larger (albeit more strange) class of foods.

Disappointing news, indeed. However, I'd appreciate knowing, when you have the time and are willing, the details. What exactly what went wrong? You used some pretty strong descripitions. u.e.

Thanks Kent... for someone who's never learned pinyin, I "spell by ear," if you will. ... and check on the bamboo strips and edamame... have had those variations as well - but overall, it's usually a rather uncolorful dish... I will try sugar and soy... perhaps a touch of sesame oil. u.e.

Thanks everyone. Yes, I know how kau fu is used and its (common) role as a meat substitute, however, I was just wondering what the basic recipe would be - I've had it many times in many different places and prepared by many Chinese people, and the vast majority of the time, there's always woodear and sometimes shiitakes, lily stalks and peanuts... ...so sugar is what is used to sweeten the dish? u.e.

I find italicization a little less intrusive.

no offense taken. i claim to be nothing other than an amateur photographer. thanks for the note though! u.e.

... or how either "mudled," under-seasoned, or over-cooked meat has anything to do with sloppy presentation... The only presentation that I will agree looked sloppy to me was the un-ravelled lamb chop. The rest of it, I found aesthetically pleasing. [edited to add: I always order my meats rare. I assure you, the beef was not-over-cooked, unless you had tartare in mind...] u.e.

Ben. Thanks... sorry, I guess I should have been more specific. I didn't want to actually make the kau fu - rather I was looking for the recipe for cooking it with the elements I described above. u.e.

My, the list is growing to be quite impressive. I look forward to hearing all about it! u.e.

There is this Chinese dish that I'd like to find a recipe for. I don't know exactly what it is... the best phoenetic translation I can make out is kow fu. As far as I can tell, it's like a glutenous sponge - not unlike tofu, but spongy. It's usually cooked with Chinese black mushrooms and wood-ear mushrooms in a soy-based, but slightly sweet sauce. I've also had versions that included peanuts and lily stalks. I'm sure someone has posted about this before - but I have no idea how to even go about search for this. u.e.