ulterior epicure

... well, sort of. Doesn't seem likely (okay, damn near impossible) that L. Tourondel (of the initialed "BLT" "chain") will physically be at the soon-to-open Brasserie Ruhlmann outpost in Chicago as EC... but I guess the Midwest will be getting a taste of Paris, by way of NYC. From the Chicago Magazine's "Dish"

Babbo has one Michelin star, not zero. Del Posto's two-star status was a definite surprise to me. I continue to see reports of inconsistency there, so I just can't explain it.My bad, so it (Babbo) does... I was too lazy last night to check with my "Geed" (2006) and relied on the internet; a couple of sites didn't include Babbo... go figure. Speaking of, I need to order the new guide - which released a few weeks ago, I believe. The one thing I've heard over and over about DP is that it is so Las Vegas. FWIW, from what I've seen of it on the tele and from what I've read and heard, here on eG and elsewhere, it just seems to showy and flashy for 2 stars. So, to recap all the great contributions to the thread: @ L'Atelier Joel Robuchon: Sit at the counter and order a la carte. Langoustines are a must. @ EMP: Try to get an "alcove" seat and, of course, take Humm's amazing-looking tasting for a run. Also, expect for an "older NYC" feel and possibly uneven service (from what I gathered from the EMP thread). Everyone has said it's absolutely cavernous - noise factor?? @ Bouley: Definitely do the Chef's Tasting, and if Bouley's in, try to get him to cook for me. (And, I suppose monkeys will fly out of.... ). I know there are two rooms - one red, and the other, not read... any suggestions? @ Babbo: Preferred over DP. Get the Pasta Tasting, or focus on the pastas. Expect uneven service on the weekends (I may have gleaned that from the Babbo thread). Loud music-loving is a must, as, potentially, is the calamari. Seating suggestions? @ The Modern: Definitely get the chef's tasting as a opposed to seasonal... or was that the other way around? Failing the dining room, visit the bar and order the... (fill in the blank, please)...? Don't sit in the lounge area next to the bar unless I'm dying to see a chiropractor. From what I've heard and seen, it gets loud and very dark in the dining room - same with the bar?? Any other nominations? Suggestions? Thanks everyone! Hope this also helps others who are ISO of fine dining.

Having been to per se, Daniel, LB, J-G, and WD~50, I think I have some feel for what Michelin is doing in New York. Having said this, far be it from me to base any kind of decision on les macarons. But, I couldn't help but notice that while Babbo has no stars, Del Posto has two. Having been to neither, can someone articulate why this might be? FWIW, for whatever reason, from just my impressions of EMP (also never having been), I "get" why they did not receive any stars.

Not a story I currently care to "eat." (No ill will meant - simply saying it's not for this trip). But, since jjb1980 asked, what is the story there? I haven't heard much movement one way or other. As between EMP and The Modern? Suggestions... thoughts? My list is getting slowly, but surely smaller. u.e. [edited: For grammar and to add an explanation]

I'm not sure which tasting BryanZ is referring to, but it if it is the last one he posted about in December of 2006 (see here), then it's the full $120 tasting menu. And, to be quite honest, I was a little thrown off by BryanZ's comment after seeing the price. While $120 (even for 9 to 11 courses) isn't expensive compared to Masa, per se or ADNYRIP (shall we just append those three letters onto the foreshortening?) it certainly is no poor man's dinner. u.e.

I gather that the the menu (a la carte and tastings) doesn't/hasn't change/d in a number of years? u.e.

Nathan, please do report, if you go. I will be especially interested to hear about your experience and that amazing "Gourmande" tasting posted online. u.e.

I'm afraid I've opened up my own Pandora's box with this thread. Options can be great, when you're looking for a new job, or applying to colleges... but with 3 open dinners in a town as great as NYC... Annisa is one that has been on my "long list" for quite some time. It has slowly inched up, however, in the past year. What, rich, is so particularly "NYC" about its tasting menu? Ahhh, yes, I have a good chef-friend who just returned from NYC not too long ago and raved about Cru. Of course, he was VIP'ed so I took his glowing review with measure...

Thanks to all for your input! Especially, to Aaron and others who have given me a lot of detailed pros and cons. Again, as I stated up post, although I've had a blessed eating life, my top-echelon dining experiences have been capped by my geographic location. I'm hoping to fine-tune things this year a bit over a series of trips I have planned. (Fingers crossed that they all work out ) @ Felonius: And, this is why Babbo is on my shortlist.@ EMP: I have heard the same, Mayur, about the dining room. However, unless the music is garishly loud or just downright horrible or the service is tremendously rude or otherwise deficient, the food is usually my main concern. @ Daniel: For the purpose of this discussion, I will tell you that Daniel is nowhere near my shortlist... for now. I have been and have no interest in returning so soon. Other fish to fry. @ Le Bernardin: Ditto to Daniel... and no pun intended on the fish fry comment. @ Masa: How much is the menu at current market? And, yes, Aaron, I loved Yasuda so much on my two previous visits that I think I would very much enjoy Masa. In fact, I enjoyed Yasuda so much that I'd tempted for a third visit, but like Daniel and LB, I need to move on to unexperienced restaurants. @ Picholine: While I didn't completely rule out Picholine in my first round of considerations, I don't think it's the type of experience I'm looking for. I have been once (not to eat) to the restaurant on business. I am most curious about the (IIRC) new lavendar colour scheme. @ per se: Aaron, likewise. I concur. @ Gilt: What has happened to the hype and excitement in the wake(?) of Lee's take-over?

To quote Sneakeater, "Great Leaping Gonzagas" ( ) - if I could have the "Gourmande" Tasting Menu posted on the EMP website, it'd be back on my list... alas, I doubt that the menu will stay the same for that long... u.e.

Hey doc! Good to see you here! Yes, you are correct on my sentiments re: WD~50. However, don't think that I've excluded a possible re-trial. As for Aquavit, it has been on my list for way too long, and I fear that I've let that (prime) window of opportinity slip by me... I'm actually quite surprised how strong of a showing L'Atelier JR is making on this thread. Not to discount all the great input from other eGulleters, I'm still not sure (and nobody may be at this point) how much of the restaurant's "glow" is a due to the "new kid on the block" factor - the new darling and debutante of NY restaurant society, and how much is actually attributable to the restaurant's true value as a continued contributor to the NY dining scene. Only time will tell. I have to say that I'm quite surprised, and a little more than disappointed that Gordon Ramsey didn't deliver the dazzling entre that I had expected. I had thought it would unseat L'A JR for at least a little while... it seems that it's only boosted L'A JR. Actually, now that DutchMuse and others have brought up EMP, it was on my list, but I had all but ruled it out on this upcoming trip in light of the enthusiasm for L'A JR, Bouley, and The Modern. [edited: for egregious grammatical errors and to add a few thoughts]

Thanks, Mayur, very helpful. Which "chef's tasting courses," in particular, are "less exciting?" u.e.

So, a "Table for One" would not be the best way to experience L'Atelier? (i.e. the menu is more suitable for sharing?) This is what I gather from what I've read about the plates at The Modern... u.e.

My, I had no idea there was such a difference between the tasting and a la carte. Unfortunately, the website (through Four Seasons Hotel) has no prices listed.

markk. Thanks for that! I'm sorry everything was "teleported" to you at Babbo on your last visit... sounds almost opposite of what Nathan wrote in the post before yours! I'll tell you what intrigues me the most about Babbo - they have one of the widest selections of offal of any fine dining restaurant I've noticed. But, other than the goose liver ravioli, I've not really heard much else about the other offal offerings at Babbo. u.e.

Sounds like a hot Muffalata. Thanks for the report!

Thanks daisy17 That's one of the first times I've actually heard of a la carte being more economical than tasting menu. I guess I'll have to go look up their menu for prices. re: Babbo. I won't have a problem securing reservations. And, I think I am leaning toward it over DP.

Giving Babbo a nudge... anyone care to push back? Someone has got to have eaten there since September of last year... u.e.

Thanks, Nathan. Actually, I listed those in no particular order.

LOL! Okay, maybe I should just cut to the chase. Here's my shortlist: 1. The Modern 2. Bouley 3. L'Atelier Joel Robuchon 4. Masa (reservations will be tres iffy) 5. As between Babbo and Del Posto? Thoughts? 6. Aquavit [edited to add: These are in no particular order] Mildly curious about Gordon Ramsey - but ditto on the Masa reservations concern. As well, I'm really afraid that I would be disappointed, as I have yet to hear about one all-around stellar experience. Thanks!

Thanks oakapple. I'm sure you surmised my question is actually for personal benefit. I will be visiting NYC shortly and have three dinner reservations to make. I have pretty much decided on one restaurant, but have two left. I've whittled my choices down to a short list, but would like to see if they show up on anyone else's top-choice lists. Of course, I've also been reading in each of those restaurant's threads on the forum - but, some are much more update than others. To be honest, I've been "under the gun" in my own life recently (which will all end very shortly, thankfully!) and have somewhat fallen out of the NYC loop... in desperate need of a primer. Like you, I also feared opening up the Pandora's tasting menu issue, but I do know that some restaurants are particularly good for their tastings, while others are better for their a la carte. While generally, I always do the tasting, I thought there might be a few restaurants that would warrant an exception. I started this thread because none of the recent "I'm coming to NYC" threads asked about the type of restaurants I am curious about. And, I don't feel appropriate butting my own query in on the discussions that are intended to help others in their own specific restaurant searches. Thanks again, oakapple. I hope others will contribute.

Not to disparage Flay, but that stack of "chocolate Johnny cakes" looked absolutely awful... that, I believe, was the first of 3 desserts. [edited to add: Chocolate souffle (how predictable?!) was the last dessert.] The dish that Bowles made that most intrigued me was the corn soup with cinnamon-infused whipped cream. And, of course, those goat cheese beignets coated with chocolate batter. u.e.

I'll second Room 39. I'd also like mention, since you asked particularly about paninis, that 1924 Main always has a burger and sandwich (often a panini - though sometime open-faced) for lunch ($10 for 2 courses). heyjb: please elaborate on the "Marco Polo."

Excuse the interruption. I have a question I'd like throw to the NYC folk: 1. Name your three favorite top-echelon Manhattan restaurants. Factors to consider include atmosphere, service, wine list, current performance, and last, but certainly never least (if not mostly), the food. (small print: excluding Jean Georges and per se) 2. Tasting menu or a la carte. Why? 3. You may freely editorialize to explain each choice. Will look forward to reading answers and discussions. Thanks everyone! u.e.

Thanks to you both!! I have my first batch of jiu niang incubating. I can't wait until it's ready!! Question: the type of "brewer's yeast" I used was "hard" - it looked like a giant mothball. I crushed it up into powder. Would it be better if I used fresh brewer's yeast (I'm assuming such a thing exists)?