ulterior epicure
-
Posts
3,811 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Store
Help Articles
Posts posted by ulterior epicure
-
-
Urban legend. Never heard of this.
Me neither - if it is true, then I've eluded the law many times.
Edit: but that certainly should be forbidden. Epoisses is evil.
Gasp!! I think Epoisses is devilishly good...
U.E.
-
As far as my new attitude, I agree that we are in the culinary minority, and I'm done trying to convert people to my way of thinking... I've come to realize that there's a fine line between opening someone's eyes to local cuisine and coming across like an asshole. Few things are as disheartening as FINALLY getting someone to visit one of your favorite restaurants with you, and watching them either hate it or pretending to like it. For that reason, if it's a group outing of family or friends I'll have some input but generally follow the herd. I truly hate On The Border, but maybe not as much as the seven other people in the group will hate Tienda Casa Paloma if I talk them into it, for example. The trade-off is a bad meal with good friends.
Well put! There's nothing more depressing than feeling like you've DRAGGED your friends/family to a place that you really enjoy, only to have the experience ruined by a less-than-agreeable reaction - whether sincere or not...
the deep fried tacos at In-A-Tub are ambrosia to meDare I admit it - me too!!
I'm just more likely to put that money towards fewer, high quality meals at a local place that takes reservations. To each his own when it comes to chain food.Me too.
Have you ever BEEN to Zona Rosa? The horror……the horror…...
Yes I have - I pass (or crawl) by frequently... hardly ever go in. I have seen the Granite City all lit up from afar, but haven't ventured near it... -
As to dining local, I do like to support the efforts of our local chefs, without support, they go away and all I am left with is Red Lobster.
Safe dining is just that. Experiencing a dish that a chef has been working on is a treat. And there are enough midlevel locally owned places here that I do not have to go to Red Robin to have a good burger.
i couldn't have put it better myself!!
...honestly though, because i haven't dined out at chains very much (actually not at all in the past six months), i'm not aware of these long waits that everyone seems familiar with. the only place i know that has a long wait is the cheesecake factory (due partially to their "no reservation" policy). as for p.f. chang's i've only been once (at a location other than kansas city at someone else's' invitation) and have never even been tempted to go back.
if any restaurant (even a really good locally owned one that i've been wanting to try) has a waiting line of over 30 minutes, then i would more likely go somewhere else, or home, and try another day - unless i'm in an area that offers sufficient distractions... perhaps due partly to impatience, but moreso i fear that when restaurants are swamped, sometimes service, quality and other elements start to slip...
u.e.
-
Maybe I have a bourgeois palate, but I've had some pretty good meals at our chain restaurants. Every time I see a discussion like this, I wonder what I'm missing. Maybe it's better I don't know?
not necessarily jgm... i suspect that the average egulleter has a preference for more sophisticated food, but are often (sadly) limited by a bourgeois budget - not a bourgeois palate...
i think you make a good point. while i wouldn't say that the average chain will have food equivalent in quality/preparation/sophistication as upmarket establishments - i think the overall advantage of chains is in:
1. their ability to deliver decent food at often unbelievably low prices - ie. value. (this may involve mass production and sourcing).
2. a predictable, if not somewhat pedestrian, fare.
sometimes, i fear that you are right - that upmarket establishments are able to get away with charging more for the same food (including quality, preparation and presentation) you'd get at a chain because of any number of "bells and whistles" they're able to add to the dining experience (ie. trendy scene, star chef, location, swanky crowd, popular hype, ie...). take for instance my meal last night: without disclosing the restaurant's name, i was at a very upscale (for the city) restaurant. one of their menu items was salmon. i refrained from ordering because upon questioning the server, i discovered (to my surprise), that it was farm-raised. i can get farm-raised salmon for (literally) 1/3 the price this place was charging at any number of chain restaurants... i was shocked and a little disappointed...
u.e.
-
In my area, a lot of them also still think that the horrid liquid nacho cheese sauce makes qweezeen hote.
without disparaging the people in your neck of the words who prefer canned cheese products - laugh out loud!!
ulterior epicure.
-
And sometimes I think it's hard to distinguish a chain... for instance, I've never heard of Abuelos and so would not automatically assume it was a chain. I think newer chains are also trying to "trick" the consumer and make them seem less chain-like.
well, i don't know if i would say they're trying to "trick" consumers as much as they're perhaps trying to cater to diners' preference for a more "homey"/boutique restaurant feel... but overall, in my experience, chains are rather recognizable - usually easily identified by large colourful signage (usually lit and abnoxiously festive - sometimes with kitschy titles or logos) and a sophisticatedly printed menu. large staffs and impossibly expensive fixtures complete the look. oh, and who could forget the often wal-mart-sized parking lots and kiddie crayon and colouring mats... sigh... (polished t.v., print and radio ads are another dead-ringer)
... i don't know, perhaps i'm more sensitive than others (or perhaps i've dined at more than my fair share of chain restaurants
), i can usually smell (no pun in tended) the "cookie-cutter" establishment from miles away...that all being said, since we are on the topic, where do you all think the definition of a chain begins and ends? there are such things as local chains... do you think their quality can be discounted by their choice to broaden their geographic scope? (see zeemanb-initiated thread on arthur bryant's new west village locale). does bo ling's count as a "chain," (though originated in kansas city, they've now got an outpost in miami)? what about the pbj group (ie. yia yia's, yahooz, grand street cafe, etc...)? what about lidia's (ie. filidia's in new york, and another lidia's in pennsylvannia?)...
u.e.
-
Forum Host Note:
This thread was split from the thread containing Schneier's review of Granite City Food and Brewery. It's a great discussion but was taking the original thread off-course a bit so I though it best to give it a thread of its own.
Carry on, please
<><><><><>
It is so hard for me to understand why people will wait for mediocre food. I see people lining up at PF Changs, Texas Roadhouse, Abuelos, Olive Garden and on and on. It seems to be indemic to chain restaurants. What is it about these chains that folks will wait for over an hour for a table when they can go down the road to a local chef owned restaurnant and have a great meal that is chef driven, not created in some research lab somewhere. Maybe that is why those labs work. They create food that is safe and cheap to produce. I don't know, this is probably not the right forum to ponder this question. If I have to wait more than 15 minutes, I am not there.joiei
i too have a hard time empathizing, but i do understand why people would "wait for mediocre food." even a food snob like me would admit that there is something to be said for consistency - which chains, in my experience, are able to deliver pretty well. as many of our discussions on egullet have shown, dining at the higher end of the food chain is often plagued by disappointments (sometimes huge ones) that come with substantial fiscal loss. i have to admit, when i get "dining-out fatigue," or am "burned" by a tremendously disappointing upmarket experience, i am tempted to dash to my local chain for some predictable "comfort food."
... sometimes, predictably mediocre is better than unexpectedly deficient!
ulterior epicure.
-
-
oh my - it's great to know that my writing isn't just floating un-noticed in cyberspace!! well, as you can tell from flickr, i have a LOT of catching up to do in terms of reviews... i will try my best to produce - just for you!
cheers.
u.e.
p.s. how funny - i'm exactly opposite of you - i favor savories to sweets. are you a pastry chef?
-
UE - I would urge you to give Alinea another shot. I went in May shortly after the opening. I really liked it, but certainly did not think it was the top restaurant in Chicago (and since we apparently need to trot out credentials I've been to all of the top places in Chicago: Tru, Trotters, Everest, Avenues, Spiaggia, etc). I returned in July to find that the restaurant had evolved exponentially both in terms of food and service. My dinner on New Year's Eve was possibly one of the best restaurant meals I've ever had. It keeps getting better and better, which is a pretty scary thought when you consider that they've only been open since May.
make no mistake - alinea is among my top "must re-visits" in chicago. i won't belabour you all with my "credentials." suffice it to say, i hesitate to judge any restaurant (or anything) based on one experience - and same with alinea. i guess all i meant to say by my previous comment is that, there have been many restaurants that, whether by chance or by true quality, have managed to impress me more on one/a first visit... that's all.
jesteinf - if you are right, that alinea's quality and innovation has only improved since its opening (my visit was in late july), then i am eager to get back and compare experiences.
cheers.
ulterior epicure.
-
sorry docsconz...
didn't fully read the context from your previous posting... thanks for clarifying... although i still stand by my previous comment.
u.e.
-
Sauteed Soft Shell Crabs
Basmati Rice, Roasted Pattypan Squash, Mustard Greens, Garlic Puree, and Saffron, with a Cherry Tomato Vinaigrette
- 2002 Domaine Baillard Chablis -
> no particular comment here
um - yum?
Cinnamon Crusted Veal SweetbreadsBaby Beets, Sunchoke & Hazelnut Puree, Huckleberries, Blueberries, and Porcini Mushrooms
- 1996 Ramon Bilbao Gran Reserva -
> Beets and cinnamon -- who'da thunk it? -- but it worked. Killer wine, too.
um - double yum!
Roasted Domestic Rack of LambShaved Summer Truffles, Pattypan Squash, Zucchini, Eggplant, Fave & Cannellini Beans, with a Port Wine Sauce
- 2000 Pavillon des Connectable -
> The weakest dish of the evening. My notes say, "OK, but not exciting" and, concerning the truffles, "sort of a waste here."
must i do a triple?
thanks for that review! i do hope i make it up there soon!
ulterior epicure.
-
I'm not saying that Alinea isn't perhaps a very good or excellent restaurant. I just think that most people here who are singing its praises are more than a bit over the top (especially when it comes to comparing it with other places that are out there - most of which they've never been to). Robyn
while i certainly respect everyone's right to express and hold their opinion(s), i'd have to agree with robyn on this one. alinea was very good on my one visit this summer - and unique, but i personally could not say that it is the best restaurant in any one category - not even in chicago... that's just my opinion.
ulterior epicure.
-
any recent visitors out there? i'd love an update. i've had my eye on tapawingo for a couple of years now, but never quite made it up there.
cheers.
ulterior epicure.
-
wendy
you're very welcomed. i'm so pleased that you all are benefitting from my uploads!
cheers.
u.e.
-
I have to agree with you on this one. While I've only eaten at Cafe Sebastienne once, I was not wowed in the least. It was quite a while ago, so forgive me if my memory is foggy... I had a reuben sandwich and it came with a fruit salad. By the time, I got my sandwich, it was soaked with strawberry juice and was so soggy I had to eat with a fork, and I could barely eat it because it was so sweet! The fruit salad was fruit salad. My boyfriend had a seafood chowder of some sort and it was unbearably bland. Service was slow and inattentive... we never got a drink refill and my boyfriend, on all occasions, can consume pitchers of soda all by himself. Haven't been back, but I haven't completely written it off yet.
Yikes - well I'm sorry to hear that quite a few of you have had a bad go at C.S.... but I suspect from your description that you had lunch... hmmm, part of me is starting wonder if the dinner experience is vastly different from the daytime fare?
U.E.
-
I really think it's just a crap-shoot and on any given day, you can have the best or worst of experiences, since there are humans involved. I would rather take my chances going to local, independent places and have the occasional "miss" than go to a chain where the results are predictable but mediocre. I don't think it's about a chef (or server) trying to please or displease. As Forest Gump's famous tshirt said "s**t happens."
amen! agreed!
Enjoy Detroit and we'll see you in sunnier times.thanks, it's no consolation for me... but i suppose detroit and environs have their unique foodie spots...
believe me, i can't wait to get back to kansas city. in the meantime, i might be making a brief trip abroad in february - but haven't decided if i should return to s. america or europe... or perhaps stay state-side and finally make a trip out to the french laundry... either way, the trip WILL involve food.
... i've got one more week here in k.c. - and i still have a lot of eating to do!
hopefully will get a chance to stop by elbow's for some chocolate fun and perhaps one, or two more restos.cheers - let's keep this dialogue going. don't think that my physical absence will mean a forum absence!!
cheers.
u.e.
-
fyi kansas citians.
my latest visit to le fou frog is up on my blog. The pictures of the meal can be viewed by clicking on the picture - it will link you to the flickr photo-set.
u.e.
-
molto e.
the schwa food presentations have an "organic" placement about them - how interesting... the sauerkraut and raisins, for instance, almost look as if they are crawing out of the plate. as does the white anchovy in one of the beginning courses. i don't say this to be disgusting, rather just an observation.
u.e.
-
u.e. - you need to get by and check it out. The flavors are interesting, intriquing and delicious. I have memories of the cinnamon and the dark chocolate and the saffron and the rosemary caramel and the fleur de sel. Oh and the raspberry. NOthing was so overpowering, a wonderful balance. And each one was like a little treasure. I am so glad that I found the shop.
I might just try a "drive-by" tomorrow - yes, I had forgotten about the cinnamon one!
YUM!! Ulterior Epicure
P.S. joiei, are you from New Orleans?
-
We had lunch on a Saturday, joiei had a spinach salad (trying to save himself for a sushi-fest later) and I had housemade ravioli (supposed to be pumpkin w/sage butter but as that was unavailable, it was funghi in a cream sauce). Salad was swimming in dressing, which is a pretty rookie error IMHO. My pasta was pretty gummy/gluey the sauce cloyingly rich beyond redemptior (maybe it was meant to be thinned with wine or somthing at service but no one told the line cook?). I ordered a glass of wine which hadn't yet arrived when the food did.
Over-dressed salads are inexcusable, IMHO as well. Unless I'm at a VERY reliable restaurant, I always ask for the dressing on the side. If they refuse, I don't order. Gummy/gluey pasta is unpleasant, to be sure, but not as bad, in my opinion, as undercooked pasta. What kind of sauce came with the pasta? Was it cream based? "Cloying" makes me think it was a sweet sauce, but I doubt that was the case - if so, then there was definitely a lot to be complaining about!
I will go back, I just found it amusing when I saw your post that our experiences are like night and day at some of the places we've reported on. It makes me think we need a thread about comically bad experiences at otherwise-good places.I wonder, if we were to dine together, who the chef would choose to "please?" You or me?
Seriously, we may just have different tastes... or different experiences... I have never tried C.S. at lunch, so perhaps it's a different wait staff/chef/line.Cheers.
U.E.
-
I have a story (which I am reluctant to even relate) about a rather-high-end Chicago place (begin's with T...which doesn't really narrow it down that much, in that town). If you lead, I will follow.
Naughty, naugty...
I'll bite - Is "T" followed by two (capitalized) letters?
I have my own story about an experience at "A."
Re: eating out - my anonymity is comfortably anonymous at this point - and besides, I'm leaving K.C. soon for a stint elsewhere - but not to fret, I'll be back within 6 months...
U.E.
-
moosnsqrl.
i bet we could agree on a few restaurants: 40 sardines (3 visits), zin (2 visits) and bluestem (2 visits), i consider pretty solid...
u.e.
-
UE, you and I must be on opposite biorhythmic dining cycles or something. My last visit there was pretty disappointing, both in terms of food and service. I felt particularly bad as I subjected another Society member (joiei, visiting from Tulsa) to a very lackluster meal and lamented throughout that we had diverted from the plan to return to Room 39.
It's funny that we seem to have 180-degree different experiences at the same places. I can't decide if we should try dining together or avoid one another at all cost. Either way it seems one of us would have a good meal and the other not-so-much.
hmmm... that's too bad. can you be more specific about your disappointment(s)? again, i admit that my opinion is based only on two visits... and as my many visits to le fou frog have demonstrated - service/food/experience can vary from desperately sorry to good (not yet great). there are off-nights, and there are on-nights...
room 39? not familiar... elaborate (on whichever fora you deem appropriate) please?
u.e.
Stockholm Restaurant Recommendations
in Elsewhere in Europe: Dining
Posted
Hector, could you please clarify your statement? Do you mean its "really really bad" that the restaurant is shutting down, or do you mean to say that the restaurant is closing because it is "really really bad?" If the former, I agree, if the latter, I would disagree.
U.E.