ulterior epicure

Hi, I've thrown out a number of inquiries on the same topic in a couple of threads. In short, I'm looking for a great SF dinner that isn't: Manresa, Chez Panisse, Michael Mina, or Slanted Door. I'm considering The Dining Room (Ritz), Gary Danko's, and Fleur de Lys... any comments? Any other suggestions? Also, can someone illuminate me on this: Thanks all! u.e.

loremipsum, are you going to write up your report? i look forward to reading about your meal. i'm considering on going - but i'm a little overwhelmed by all the various menus - the salt & pepper looks really interesting, as does the chef's 9-course... any recent expreiences from eGulleters? u.e.

Yes, of course, sorry, TFL!

Right, so both are an option. What do members think about doing Chez Panisse Cafe instead of Quince/Incanto and doing Chez Panisse Restaurant the night after? Try something different? Any other suggestions? u.e.

A "hairy" proposition, to be sure! u.e.

To avoid stealing thunder from Ling and hhlodesign's awesome trip and reporting, I'm moving my own solicitations for SF/Napa eating suggestions to this thread. Thanks! u.e.

...so, I'll be heading to SF and Napa Valley soon.... So far, I have reservations in the following order: Day One Dinner: Manresa Day Two Lunch:??? Day Two Dinner: ??? Day Three Lunch: ??? Day Three Dinner: Chez Panisse Day Four Dinner: Per Se Would really appreciate those in the know helping me fill in the blank spots... what would make sense re: transportation/vicinity? I'm staying near Palo Alto on the first two nights. I've already nixed Michael Mina and Slanted Door (from recent reports) - considering The Dining Room at the Ritz, Gary Danko's, Fleur de Lys, Quince and Incanto (although I think the latter two are nowhere near SF... need to do more research)... Thanks! u.e.

... I've posted the following on the Weekend in SF/Napa Valley thread from the California forum. I thought that my inquiry would be pertinent to post here as well: "Ling and hhlodesign! Thanks for the continued posting! All very great! Ling, I couldn't help but notice from your pictures that Bouchon Bakery sells macarons. Did you happen to try any? The reason I ask is because I was recently at Per Se where they gave each of the diners a little package of house-made macarons. I'll admit that I didn't eat them that same day (couldn't stomach it after such a large meal), and in fact waited quite a many days. When I did eat them, I noticed that they were much more "dense" than the macarons I've had in France and the rest of Europe. By dense I mean to say that they had much courser and larger bits of almond (?) in the almond flour than the "crispier" almost-meringue-like ones in Europe. It seems that macarons can vary greatly (boy, I guess that was an understatement). However, I find them best in bakeries and not in restaurants, which is why I ask how the Bouchon Bakery version might compare. [Just as a note: For example, the ones I recently had at Jean Georges in New York were mini button macarons that were unpleasantly hard as marbles. As too were the slightly larger coffee macarons ones I had at 3-star Hof van Cleve in Belgium. Bar none, the best restaurant macarons I have had were at 2-star Mosconi in Luxembourg, where on both visits, Madame Mosconi stuffed generously large and ethereally light, airy and crisp - yet impossibly tender - chocolate macarons to me as I left. The ganache being at once a part of the macaron halves as much having their own distict ooey-gooey wonderfulness quite apart from the meringue-y biscuits.]"

Ling and hhlodesign! Thanks for the continued posting! All very great! Ling, I couldn't help but notice from your pictures that Bouchon Bakery sells macarons. Did you happen to try any? The reason I ask is because I was recently at Per Se where they gave each of the diners a little package of house-made macarons. I'll admit that I didn't eat them that same day (couldn't stomach it after such a large meal), and in fact waited quite a many days. When I did eat them, I noticed that they were much more "dense" than the macarons I've had in France and the rest of Europe. By dense I mean to say that they had much courser and larger bits of almond (?) in the almond flour than the "crispier" almost-meringue-like ones in Europe. It seems that macarons can vary greatly (boy, I guess that was an understatement). However, I find them best in bakeries and not in restaurants, which is why I ask how the Bouchon Bakery version might compare. [Just as a note: For example, the ones I recently had at Jean Georges in New York were mini button macarons that were unpleasantly hard as marbles. As too were the slightly larger coffee macarons ones I had at 3-star Hof van Cleve in Belgium. Bar none, the best restaurant macarons I have had were at 2-star Mosconi in Luxembourg, where on both visits, Madame Mosconi stuffed generously large and ethereally light, airy and crisp - yet impossibly tender - chocolate macarons to me as I left. The ganache being at once a part of the macaron halves as much having their own distict ooey-gooey wonderfulness quite apart from the meringue-y biscuits.] I'm also posting this on the Bouchon Bakery (Warner Center) in the NY Forum.

tammylc. in the interest of anonymity, i'd rather not say which night i attended. that being said, supposing that i was there on monday, it's a good thing that you were distracting the house. u.e.

Yes, have table at Manresa, TFL, and Chez Panisse downstairs... looking for another one... anything nearish to Palo Alto? u.e.

by the way, i agree with your hubby (as i'm a sashimi purist) that raw fish should be dressed as little as possible. but, i do have to say that i appreciate the hawaiian way of "preserving" and "semi-cooking" their fish in acidic and/or salty marinades... the latin cultures do this very well in their ceviches as well. u.e.

As tammylc has written, the Monahan's Seafood Dinner took place at the Zingerman's Roadhouse in Ann Arbor on Monday/Tuesday, April 10/11th. I haven't read her report yet, so I'm excited to compare my tasting notes with hers. Again, you can see the pictures by clicking here. We started out with a plate of five starters: 1. "Bacon & Eggs" "Paper thin crispy Iowa ham and Mississippi paddlefish caviar" The smoky and salty bacon completely masked the flavor of the caviar. There was so little caviar it was nearly a joke. The cream cheese too obscured the texture and flavor of the caviar. A total shame. Each element was very good by itself, but together, it failed to showcase the true gem - the (Mississippi River Valley) caviar. 2. "Liver & Onions" "Seared monkfish liverand crispy shallot rings" My friend, who had never had ankimo, or monkfish liver, took one bite and sent her portion my way. I agreed with her that it was very livery and offal-like. I have never had monkfish liver seared, and now I suspect I know why. Monkfish liver is very fishy-livery. I believe that the Japanese really are onto something with soaking it in sake before steaming it - au torchon style, if you will and served cold. Didn't really care for this starter, although the tangy balsamic vinegar reduction was sturdy and strong enough to stand up and mitigate the fishy-ferric-tasting liver. 3. "A Hawaiian Poke" "Grade 'A' Hawaiian tuna marinated in soy, sesame, and kombu" I think this was the winner of the starters for me. The tuna was very fresh and the marinade extremely yet full-flavored, yet well-balanced. Salty from soy sauce, nutty from sesame oil, sea-like from the kombu, and slightly sweet and tangy from a bit of vinegar(?). The scallions also added a great herby savoriness. 4. "Crab Matchsticks" "First of the season Florida soft shell legs, tempura-fried and crusted in Alea red salt from Hawaii and seven peppers." A single tempura-fried soft shell crab leg with a nugget of crab meat attached at the "thigh" end. This was very good, crispy and wonderfully fresh - although the outside was a tad oily. It sat on a bed of mayonnaisy sauce that contained some herbs and tomato dices. Not terribly ground-breaking. 5. "Fish & Chips" "Fried smelt and blue potato chips." A single whole de-headed fried smelt lay on a little tuft of blue potato shoe-string fries. The smelt was wonderful. I wished it had been salted a little more. The fish itself was perfectly fried - the inside was just done and wasn't too oily. The meat was at delicate in both texture, and surprisngly, flavor. The blue potato shoe-strings were pretty good, but I had sort of wished they had been been round chips - better yet, a single large chip on which the smelt could have been enjoyed on and with in one single bite. Soup: "West Coast Oyster Bisque" "Real bisque made from Pearl Bay oysters, tapped with a bit of uni cream, Andrew Quady's Vya sweet vermouth and a tarragon crostini" The uni cream was very sweet, but actually retained its uni-ness. The bisque was a bit watery and contained only nominal little bits of the oyster. Both my friend and I tasted some winter spices - it turned out to be clove and Bay leaf. Salad: "Lovage & Salmon" "Our love affair with wild king salmon continues. Seared o-toro of wild king salmon with local lovage and California pinot gris vinaigrette." In my opinion, the chef really destroyed the glory of this cut of fatty salmon by cooking it. I think it would have been much better appreciated completely raw or slightly torched or bruleed on the top but left raw otherwise. The lovage was very fresh and celeriac-tasting. The vinaigrette was so sweet and tangy that it overwhelmed the delicate flavors of the fish and herbs. The spicy (very spicy) salmon skin was the perfect crispy foil to the fish meat. Main Course: "Shad & Shad Roe" "Roasted and served on a real oak plank in the Ruritan tradition, served with spinach and roasted potatoes." The fish filet was excellently prepared - buttery, silky and barely done inside - showcasing the tender fattiness of the fish. Unfortunately, the filet comes with a huge spine of gristle that was inedible and rather unpleasant. I found the fish a bit under-seasoned and added a dash of sea salt. My cut of shad roe was entirely fatty and silken-tofu like. Very smoky in flavor - almost like sausage and bacon flavored. My friend's cut of shad roe was much more "well done" - grainy and drier - like lobster corale (or timale). The roasted potatoes were good, but oily, essentially potato chips, rather than scalloped potatoes - crispy and nicely salted. The spinach were velvety and perfectly sauteed - retaining their emerald green. Dessert: "A Day at the Beach" "Vanilla 'caviar' (tapioca pearls), sea foam and Scharffen Berger cocoa 'sand.'" The vanilla tapioca pudding was very very vanilla-y, very good, though a bit congealed into lumps at points. The whipped cream had been spiked with Midori, a melon liquer. The "sand" were little sugar and cocao powder granules - rather mundane and unremarkable - sort of tasted like unflavored cotton candy, to be honest; could hardly detect the chocolate element - at least it got lost amidst the wonderfully prominent vanilla of the pudding, as did the very delicate Midori in the whipped cream. Edited to add: Upshot of the meal: I thought that the flavors were too strong for the seafood served... or, the seafood was prepared in ways that failed to maximize it's full potential (e.g. the fatty salmon, the monkfish liver, and the caviar (which was served in such a small portion that they might as well have not bothered)). The shad, the crab (matchstick), smelt and the oyster bisque did stand up on their own... the shad being the only outstanding one IMHO. The dessert was a tad inappropriate - too rich and sweet, although I suspect I needed something strong to clear my palate of the strong smoky and full-flavored shad and its roe.

Thanks for everyone's patience, I've finally posted my review of Per Se on my blog with accompanying pictures on flickr. Below is basically my cut-and-paste from the "food" section of my review. Keller teases the diner’s appetite with his signature “Salmon cornet.” (I only later realized that none of his signature gougieres were served). A special miniature cone-holder presented napkin-wrapped buttery tuiles filled with whipped crème fraiche and topped with a round of silky salmon tartare. To say that the salmon was silky is an understatement - the fish had been chopped just-short-of-minced and seemed to melt away in the same way that o-toro, fatty tuna, does without chewing. Cool and silky, the sweet-savory fish meat was braced by the tang of crème fraiche, which, together, served as the perfect luxurious foil to the crispy herby tuile cone. First course featured a very Cauliflower panna cotta that glistened with an Island Creek Oyster glaze. The creamy custard was crowned with a generous quenelle of Russian Sevruga caviar. The pairing and flavor was extraordinarily well balanced. Here, the analogy to “fighting fire with fire” would be fighting decadence with decadence. By themselves, the panna cotta and the caviar would have been too cloyingly rich. However, together, the two worked brilliantly - the bitter briny eggs cut through the thickness of the custard. The second course on the 9-course Chef’s Tasting offered the first of two supplements to the menu. The non-supplement option featured a Salad of Hearts of Hawaiian Peach Palm - a delicate arrangement of ivory-coloured palm hearts made almost Japanese-like by colourful dots of pink and red from radishes and ruby grapefruit; flecks of green chives and tiny leaflets of dark radish sprouts. For a $30 surcharge, diners could enjoy foie gras prepared either au torchon (cold) or grilled. None in my party opted for the foie gras. While my companions busied themselves with a delicate, aesthetically Japanese-like, Salad of hearts of peach palm, I enjoyed the second course from the 7-course menu, Ris de Veau. Two medallions of perfectly pan-fried sweetbreads came with two nuggets of unfortunately undercooked Violet artichokes. I was unclear as to the sauce underneath the sweetbreads - the menu description included oven-roasted tomatoes, Niçoise olive “petals” and cipollini shoots. The one sauce that did stand out was a wonderfully flavorful and savory Vidalia onion soubise - slightly sweet and wonderfully ‘onion-y.’ Next, a sizeable sautéed filet of Red Sea Bream came resting on a curling bed of thinly shaved fennel salad. To my surprise, instead of pouring a broth or sauce over the filet, our server bejeweled the fish with a rainbow of fruity gems - a salsa of diced blood orange and golden nugget tangerine sections with piquillo peppers and herbs. I don’t usually like my fish served cool, but I didn’t mind the soothing, very Spring-like effect of this most refreshing course dish. Another staple on the Per Se menu is shellfish. As preferred season for lobster-eating has passed, our menu featured a trio of plump Scottish langoustines poached in sweet butter. These three lads were excruciatingly taught with freshness and bursting with sweetness. I wanted to savor every bite and so I didn’t eat them as quickly as I should have. Sadly, by the time I got to the last one, the lonely prawn had cooled and gone a tad bit tough; still excellent, but not perfect. Not to be outdone, ivory sections of Holland white asparagus and earthy black trumpets vied for the spotlight by playing very compelling supporting roles. Strung throughout, they tied garnished the langoustines in a buttery emulsion of trompe de la mort. This was the highlight of the meal. If our voyage on the Titanic of restaurants had a near-miss, it was with the “Cervelas de Lyon" - a house-made pork sausage. Keller steered way off course with this little torpedo. Where to begin? The designers of the Titanic should have consulted Keller when fashioning the hull of the cruise liner! The casing was so tough that I couldn’t breach the leathery hull with my knife. None of us could. The wieners slipped and slid around in our bowls, rebuffing our deliberate jabs and desperate slashes to get at the promising-looking pink meat studded with pistachio bits and a prominently displaying a shaving of black truffle just beneath the invincible rubbery wrapper. When a proper meat knife was provided upon request, and I successfully sawed through the wiener shield, I was terribly disappointed to find that all of my labour had gone to freeing a dry pork and nut combination. The consistency verged on crumbly. Boo! Although the meat itself had a nice smoky-hammy flavor, the truffle could hardly be tasted. So too, the pistachios disappeared in both taste and consistency - hidden by the smokiness and blended in with the dry mealy meat. Thankfully, Keller managed to mitigate the damage of the wiener disaster with the “melted” Savoy cabbage. The bed of finely shredded cabbage sat in an exquisitely pungent and earthy Perigourdine sauce - a thick veal demi-glace with black truffle. This silky combination, wonderfully countered by quarters of petite still-snappy Tokyo radishes helped to moisten the sausage meat. Plates cleared, thankfully, Keller found his way back on course and steamed full-throttle ahead with a very redeeming Elysian Fields Farm lamb rib chop. The medium-sized chop had been cooked a succulent medium-rare. Although there was a little more fat than I would have liked, the meat was very tender and excellently prepared - still succulently red in the center. A bevy of heirloom carrot balls luxuriated in a mint-spiked lamb jus with split favas and piquantly sweet pickled cloves of garlic. Splendid! Fruity frozen treats help transition the diners’ palates to the dessert course. A sweet-tart round of Passion Fruit Sorbet nestled on a bed of snow-like white chocolate granite and dark sugared crystals of Niçoise olives. The tropical presentation was completed with three garnet-coloured cubes of Hibiscus gelee and a table-side pour of passion fruit consommé - a thick fruity syrup that helped bind the granite and Equally refreshing was a “Vitre Glacee” served in an impossibly balanced V-shaped bowl on a stack of three dishes. True to its description, a glassy opaque “pane” of verjus ice, frozen at an angle, hides a tri-layer of verjus foam, tender Sicilian pistachio and apricot jam. Like the passion fruit offering, the glacee featured the same textural elements - icy, crunchy, and syrupy - in a delightfully light combination. Dessert was an adult riff on a childhood campfire favorite - S’mores. All the usual suspects were present. But, they rallied with renewed gusto in a beautifully landscaped wonderland of bitter-sweetness. A coy quenelle of Valrhona dark chocolate ganache enrobed in a snappy couverture of the same dark chocolate perched on a moist “mud” dark chocolate brownie bank, framed by twin pirouetting chocolate ribbons. Lapping this costa cacao rica were luxurious pools of white and milk chocolate marshmallowy “fluff” on one side and on the other, a thick dark chocolate fudge syrup. When our girl Valrhona, who by the way was cutely freckled with cacao powder, tired of her ooey gooey bathing grounds, the diner could transfer her silken body to dry off in the nearby sandy-duned island of “Graham’s crack crunch” (could it be a reference to Graham Elliot Bowles at the Avenues in Chicago who is also serving an “Indoor S’mores” on his dessert menu?) - a generous mound of gingerbread-spiced grape nuts-like granules. When bored, she could play with a forlorn beach ball of a toasted marshmallow of in one corner. The best combination, I found was to lather a forkful of our coy damsel with the marshmallow fluff and then, with a good measure of the brownie earth in tow, roll her around in Graham’s crunch. *giggles* (For absolute indulgence, drag the lathered Valhrona through the fudge syrup on the way to the crunchy island.) I selfishly hoarded the beach ball fun to myself and happily bounced it through the fudge syrup and re-bounded it off the crunchy island into my mouth. If anything, Per Se is not is stingy. Diners are showered with a surfeit of sweets that trail long after the last bit of dessert is enjoyed. After-dinner drinks (coffee and most teas are included in the price) are enjoyed with a selection of chocolate bon bons presented on a silver tray and a festive silver “staircase” of caramels, nougats and truffles. And, just as you think you've cleared the last gate, a neatly bundled package of home-made Macarons are presented with the bill.

Ling/Henry. Great reports and photos! Thanks for taking the time. A few quick questions/comments: 1. Did Scharffen Berger take out all of their vintage chocolate production machines? Are they still using them? I heard they "retired" them... 2. Sorry to hear about MM, it all looked pretty good... it also looks like an obscene amount of food! But I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem putting it away - unless, of course, it were really bad. 3. So, I've got an extra night in SF, any suggestions for a stellar dining experience? I'm gathering that it shouldn't be MM right now - perhaps G. Danko's or The Dining Room seems to be getting high regards... what about Fleur de Lys? You're dealing with someone who hasn't been to SF in way too long! Thanks! u.e.

In the meantime, you can look over the pictures here. u.e.

TammyLC!! Thanks for posting. I too was able to make it to the Roadhouse's Monahan's Seafood dinner. I'll be posting my thoughts and then reading your notes afterward - it'll make for a great comparison! Look forward to reading! u.e.

Knowing little about wines, I couldn't help but notice the Millaire Ghiradelli wine listed... anything to do with the "chocolate people?" u.e.

Excellent, excellent, excellent! doc, Eliot, you've got me all giddy for my upcoming visit! Hopefully they'll have changed the menu enough by that time that I get to sample some other things! Cinnamon panna cotta sounds just as good as my Yogurt panna cotta (with apple jam). YUM! u.e.

Thanks doc. I'm assuming "C&D" refers to the Coffee & Donuts? Also, the creme brulee panna cotta you had was like a hybrid of two separate post-dessert courses my party enjoyed at Per Se. Interestingly, the ladies were served Vanilla bean creme brulee while the gentlemen were served Yogurt panna cotta. u.e.

john! please do! i'd love to get an update on what cantu's doing! i'm sure you'll enjoy the experience. u.e.

Thanks very much Eliot. Other than the foie, did you supplement anything else? It seems like a longer menu than the 9-course offered at Per Se. u.e.

doc, molto e. EXCELLENT report! Thanks for that thorough and picture-filled post! Just a few questions: 1. So, I got a little lost - how many courses did you each end up having? It seems like you augmented the menu to more than 9 courses (I'm assuming it's the same format as at Per Se). 2. Do you mind if I ask how much the food cost? Sans drinks. You can p.m. me if you'd rather. Was foie gras supplemental? If so, how much? 3. A lot of your menu items were very similar to ones I had recently at Per Se: (a) Your Pompano with pampelmousse confit has all the same elements that my Red Sea Bream with essentially a pampelmousse salsa. (b) Your Verjus granite with Nicoise crumbles is a combination of two of our pre-desserts: Passionfruit Sorbet with Nicoise crumbles and Verjus Vitre Glacee. u.e.

I join ronnie in congratulating Chef Achatz and the rest of his crew! u.e. [edited to ask: What restaurant won the award last year?]

Take them to Sugiyama! Lie and tell them he won Iron Chef Japan. ← Better yet - take them to Sushi Yasuda! Lie and tell them he's Morimoto's father!! u.e.