Steve Klc

Peter--Interesting question. I "suspect" what the Kullas translate as "mashed cooked potato" from Point is what in this era a chef might call "smashed" or "riced" or pushed through a strainer. I took mashed to mean just that--sieved potato mashed into a puree--not whipped, not creamed and with no add-ins--because there's butter and egg already in Point's recipe. Escoffier, however, for his Dauphine--from the era just prior to Point--used a potato croquette mixture folded into choux--1 kg croquette mixture to 300 g (11 oz) stiff choux paste. Escoffier's choux is stiffer and richer than Point's--1 L water, 7 oz butter, 22 oz flour and 12-14 eggs--so, 50% more flour, 50% more butter, and at least 33% more eggs than Point. Escoffier's croquette mixture contained--you guessed it--100 g butter, 4 yolks and 1 whole egg to 1 kg of cooked potatoes. Escoffier also floured these cork or quenelle shapes, dipped in egg, and then in breadcrumbs before deep frying. So, Point simplified and possibly improved two steps in the process: Point uses a more delicate choux and then folds butter and yolks in at the very end. (Point is adding essentially the same amount of egg and butter that Escoffier added to his potato croquette mixture.) Point probably viewed coating the shapes in a batter overkill. As a result, he might have made a Dauphine that seemed lighter, had more potato flavor, was easier to prepare and yet still rich. I wonder if an even more modern variation--using creamy, whipped, mashed potatoes--would produce and even more ethereal Dauphine. I don't see anything relevant in Troigros, Senderens or Chapel but I'll poke around in some other chef's books of that next era. Anne Willan beats 45g butter and 75 ml warm milk into 750 g potatoes until fluffy--then folds into choux for her Dauphine.

Points well taken, Wilfrid. Anyone who can translate and annotate Grimod de la Reyniere must be serious and one look through her 68 pages of notes will attest to that fact. She's spent a lot of time in libraries and archives. However, I've used her notes much more than I've returned to her actual writing. In this "scholarly" mode--though off-topic for this thread's purposes--is Barbara Wheaton's "Savouring the Past" (1983)--a must read, alongside the Mennell, as far as setting the stage is concerned.

Yes, Wilfrid, I've read the Spang book as well but it predates the era that I think you want to address most--it is so insular and skirts your larger themes and issues--but if you liked it in style, sourcing and attention to detail--start with the Mennell. It's too bad Spang doesn't really deliver on the full promise of her title--"Paris and Modern Gastronomic Culture"--for me, there was too little connection made to the sweep of gastronomic culture after her time frame or a sense of how significant her observations of the late 18th/very early 19thC would play out afterward.

"I have read plenty of books about the development of French cuisine within France, and about the invention and development of the restaurant, as conceived in France. What I am having trouble pinpointing are any secondary sources on the successful export of French cuisine to other countries, and its dominance in hotel and restaurant catering. Reading suggestions would be very welcome." So Wilfrid--what's been on your reading list so far? My favorite of the Escoffier books is Timothy Shaw's "The World of Escoffier" (1994) though "Auguste Escoffier--Memories of My Life" (1997) translates more of Escoffier's own words on the issue of French culinary supremacy and international hotel cuisine. Chapter 6 "Chefs and their Publics" in Stephen Mennell's "All Manners of Food" covers the ground best from Careme through Escoffier to nouvelle cuisine. (Mennell has put together an incredible bibliography as well.) Raymond Sokolov's chapter "Revolution Now" is another concise read on point--in "Why We Eat What We Eat" (1991). And don't forget Anne Willan's "Great Cooks and their Recipes: From Taillevent to Escoffier" (1977). As to why the success of French cuisine continued past Careme, past Escoffier and the dull La Grande Cuisine--I've always been partial to Roy Andries de Groot's "Revolutionizing French Cooking" (1975).

I wish she stuck around a bit. Washington needs more critical eyes--especially eyes that are used to being pampered and view food and cuisine though finicky focal lenses--but I only wish she had turned her gaze on the really sacred cows here. That said--the lodging and travel beat is not necessarily the food beat and I'm not familiar with the writer in question. As far as new places with a travel and business edge--would have been nice to see what she thought of the stylish new Sofitel--with Michelin three-star Antoine Westermann supervised cuisine. But then she didn't ask.

Robert--you took the words right out of my mouth. This book is a must-have and for many chefs and foodies was their very first insight into serious cuisine--haute cuisine. It was the first time many young American cooks had seen Michelin 3 star menus reproduced or heard the stories--excellent narrative tales and characters realized in the book. The book remains an incredible, unsurpassed single volume achievement. (Yes, Bux, that means you have a hole in your library that needs to be filled by hook or by crook.) When I was cooking in my first restaurant, back in 1982, the owner took me to a used bookstore and bought me this book for $10. No $10. spent has ever had as much influence or reward.

Bill remains no Herme. Interesting statement that. I'm not sure what you mean by it, however, and I find it somewhat problematic depending on how you try to flesh it out. Cabrales--which Herme restaurant "plated" desserts have you had and what type of cuisine did they follow? Or is this an assessment outside of the context of a restaurant meal? Desserts in a restaurant context--after taking a full meal and palate stimulation--ordered off a menu rather than seen visually beforehand--and with greater expectation of hot and cold contrasts--have to be judged differently than desserts in a takeaway patisserie/chocolaterie context. To use your terminology--restaurant desserts are much more cuisine-driven. Or are you making a larger comparison of Herme with Bill's previous desserts and bakery items from the Bouley Bakery days, years ago? Were there other elements to your dinner besides sushi? Were any of Bill's sushi bar desserts sampled or just the desserts off the dining room menu? Have you ever sampled Herme's plated desserts after a meal of mediocre sushi? And an aside--in either a restaurant or patisserie context--are you more prone to call forward-pushing desserts "outstanding" or view them as more interesting rather than traditional, classic or safe flavor combinations? Does the "form" of a dessert--apart from flavor--influence your sense of whether a dessert is forward-pushing or outstanding? As I've read your posts elsewhere, you're not a fan of dark chocolate--does that extend to Herme and dark chocolate desserts as well?

Soba--and I think you're onto something with your comment about Saveur and glossies edging toward "80% travelogue and 20% genuine food journalism" except I also see it creeping into food television and cooking shows. To this untrained eye it seems we're getting much less actual cooking instruction and much more chef as food personality and rambling host or tourguide--as if they know there's a dwindling audience for the nuts and bolts of cooking--or that the same old, same old just isn't that interesting anymore. If it's true that the Food Network shows are going in this direction--it makes me wonder why Saveur and the NY Times haven't lowered themselves for more street cred even sooner.

Previous Nigella threads have discussed the show--back when the Amanda Hesser/Nigella article came out. I believe the show debuted on the E! and Style networks in the US in January. I'm a little more positive on the production aspects of the show than Jin--in fact, I wrote that it was the most artful, most interestingly produced food show I had even seen--that you couldn't help but pay attention because of the production values if not the ample bosom nicely framed in sweater sets. The snappy, contrapuntal score could annoy some but I found it moved the action along well. (Especially compared to the really tedious or amateurish music layered onto other food shows.)

I haven't ever had the apricot tart, but I have had several other desserts there and they were mediocre and perfunctory. Culinary students and their chef-instructors make the desserts--not the professional pastry students and their pastry chef instructors. Maybe this was identified as a weakness and has changed--maybe the culinary crew got lucky with some fresh apricots. I've eaten here maybe 3 or 4 times--after giving demos in the upstairs amphitheater-- and think it represents a pretty good dining value and I almost always have enjoyed the food. I'd echo many of the other's comments on this thread so far--I, too, thought the wines available by the glass were very good as well. There is an energy and enthusiasm that the students bring to their roles and they will engage you if you are so inclined. All in all, it was as polished an experience as you'd expect.

John--you might "value information most when it's in short supply." I value information most when it is accessible and helpful when I need it. For thoughts or tasks I might consider sublime but you might consider mundane, or the reverse. I have to admit never thinking about how widely distributed such information is. I also wonder if the threshold for sensory overload and overstimulation varies widely from one person to another. We all have various immunities, natural and otherwise, which aid or detract from reaching any sort of narcosis. I'm not anywhere near such a state.

Chop--it's not another crazy rumor started by a waiter. Here we have yet another irresponsible, hearsay, third-hand report of a conversation which supposedly took place between un-named individuals at yet another nice restaurant relayed by the anonymous poisonnier at Nicholas restaurant in Red Bank. Is anyone keeping score? Thank you, though, for the description of your meal at Gramercy Tavern. It adds a certain perspective to the discussions we've already had on the site about that under-exposed restaurant. I'm sure I'm not alone in asking: can your girlfriend's parents start posting instead?

A question--does untreated equal food safe when it comes to wood?

Wilfrid, I see your boulud and raise you a gremercy.

And then there's the excerpt of Shaw's post from the Compromised Critics thread: "I'd like everybody to make a list of good critics and bad critics. Do your lists correlate at all to questions of journalistic detachment? In my opinion some of the best critics historically have been the ones with the closest ties to the industry, such as Bryan Miller and David Rosengarten (like him or not, his reviews in Gourmet were superb). This should come as no surprise. When you pluck a beat reporter and say, "Poof! You're our restaurant reviewer!" how can that reporter possible write reviews as competently as a serious food person with a strong culinary background and all the relevant connections? Ethical guidelines are sensible because they provide a framework, but in the final analysis a person's conduct must be judged on an individual basis. There is certainly potential for corruption in any situation where you have close ties with your subject matter. Some are better than others at maintaining boundaries. And I certainly hope we won't drop the issue of the ethics of anonymity. Sure, you can always argue that you'll get purer information by being anonymous in any situation, but that would make the ethical question moot in all cases. I think it has to be extraordinary. Is the restaurant industry really so corrupt and out to fool the customer that this kind of institutionalized undercover reporting is justified? It is at least something to think about. And what about my point regarding unequal treatment for restaurants that do and don't recognize critics? If it's impossible for a critic to remain truly anonymous in a major market, isn't the route to equal treatment to do away with anonymity altogether? What is a restaurant review, anyway? It's really something that the New York Times invented. The whole idea of multiple visits and a certain style of reporting has taken hold, and that's fine if you want to read that. Me, I find the traditional restaurant review written in that style to be exceptionally boring and not particularly useful. I'm guilty of writing plenty of them, but over time I've become convinced that meaningful restaurant reviewing must be more than just reviewing. The better result will be achieved by a merger of the artificially divided categories of restaurant reviewing and food writing, and to get there you simply can't work within the anonymous, Consumer Reports/Ralph Nader-esque guidelines that the Times has imposed upon the journalistic community. It's also too convenient to give that ground to the Times folks, since they are able to set ethical and professional standards that only a few publications in the world have the money to maintain. Yet even with all that, does the Times provide the best reviews? You've really got to ask what the motivation is for all this focus on a Chinese Wall between reviewers and the industry. I think it panders to a public perception that restaurants are inherently dishonest, and I think the consumer protection function of reviews, as well as the entertainment function, the desire to be controversial, and just about anything but a discussion of cuisine and actual dining, have totally overwhelmed the potentially valuable content that could be delivered in reviews. Such guidelines are certainly convenient, and they allow for a degree of self-satisfaction that you don't get if you're actually involved with your subject matter, but they are not necessarily in the best interests of the readers. The greater sins, in my opinion, are laziness, ignorance, and the refusal to learn. Let's not allow the hypocrisy to go unnoticed either. All these newspapers and magazines that maintain supposedly high ethical standards should be held under the magnifying glass: The most amazing thing to me is that they all accept restaurant advertising. Moreover, while I have no doubt that in most cases newspaper critics at good newspapers pay for their meals, they are just individual members of food writing staffs that may be very close with chefs, dine for free all the time, and otherwise have biases. The editors may be this way as well, and management too. Sure, an ethical journalist can do his best to ignore these influences. But an ethical journalist can do his best to ignore any influence. And, I submit, the influence of advertisers and managers is by its very nature much stronger than any influence a chef-friend of the reporter is ever going to be able to exert." That's just a great passage.

Unless this is a move toward the anarchy which Shaw was advocating in the Compromised critics thread--where the importance of issues like anonymity and conflict of interest is lessened in favor of a more enlightened sensibility about "food writing" and "restaurant reviewing" merging? If you assign little or no credibility to remaining anonymous--and instead assign credibility first and foremost to knowing your subject and what you're talking about--then it wouldn't be problematic for Hesser to review any restaurants--even those that she has previously been wined and dined at as a food writer in the company of publicists.

Polly--regarding the egg in a gratin as an American thing, you did read the thread, right? Bocuse, Point? and John--maybe your observation of layering the slices and liquid in stages--and the fact that this step is not communicated in written recipes--is one of those "trucs" that chefs didn't pass along--so one could follow the recipe yet not create as good a dish as the chef would?

Bill--Have I got a NYTimes thread for you: http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?ac...db880a2adc28b16

Ron--to your knowledge, has Saveur ever covered Louisville--and you know what I'm going to bring up? Those rolled oysters. Now that's neither faux-populist nor patronizing and surely fits within their schtick better than Hamburger Rules, don't you think? I read that and wonder whether Saveur is worried about Bon Apetit and Better Homes & Gardens. Perhaps we should be thankful Saveur didn't run a three part series called "Celebrating Everyday Burgers: Memory, Elegance & Power?"

Of course you love hot dogs Shaw. Recently the Hartford Courant treated the subject well, without a faux-populist voice, but it was so long ago maybe the Times thought we had forgotten? Or that no one reads the Courant? Who wrote that dog treatment anyway?

There once was a wonderful monthly column by Raymond Sokolov in Natural History magazine which addressed regional foods. This writer is no Sokolov. In fact, this Paul Lukas in no Paul Lukacs! Shaw--I fully expect those same editors to next assign a major investigative piece on the emergence of a truly unique American cuisine!

I might as well be the person to ask Chop: you seem to have "heard" alot of things, you're searching for friends you have working all over the place at restaurants you can't seem to spell properly, you betray the confidences of these anonymous friends like you're Deep Throat, and you speculate amongst these friends that you have many stories to tell. But do you actually "know" anything? Are you capable of communicating something as mature and thoughtful as ngatti did in this thread? Or contribute as rozrapp or jhlurie did with specific credible information about the issues at hand here? I'd like to ask you if as a professional cook--as you supposedly are--how would you critique yourself? Do you enjoy your work, do you enjoy what you do and your lot in life? Do you wish you went to college and got an undergraduate degree in English? Have you ever connected with your customers and in that moment--from the glint in their eye as they've tasted the first bite of your food--known that you are doing what you are meant to do? Have you ever been proud to call yourself a chef? If so, and taking into consideration your problems with the written word, what makes you think you're in any position to critique a food writer? You haven't given me any indication you understand food--and if you don't understand food how could we take your comments seriously about others? Bourdain has shown all of you battered bitter line cooks the way--if you're going to talk tough you have to walk the walk. Don't talk around issues, don't speculate--lay it on the line and be honest and direct. Don't cast aspersions and don't hide behind the veil of anonymity. In other words--know what you are talking about and come strong to the plate. As far as I'm concerned, you're missing the pitch by a mile. There are some interesting issues here that have arisen out of your post, like the differences between the Times coverage of NJ and NY restaurants. The lack of online access to these reviews so any of us could read what you're so upset about for ourselves. (If you have copies of these reviews--did you ever think to quote a few of the passages which upset you so much?) The vagueness of review criteria in NJ as it relates to review criteria by Grimes in NYC. The possible role of the Times in maintaining the perceived second-class status of New Jersey fine dining restaurants in comparison to NYC restaurants of comparable aims. That Cook isn't as talented a writer or as knowledgeable a critic as the NJ dining scene deserves. (I have no idea because I can't read the damn reviews online.) What I see instead are feeble, speculative, hearsay attempts to tar and feather a reviewer, while remaining anonymous yourself. I also see that you're positioning yourself and the restaurant where you supposedly work now by demeaning and casting aspersions on other restaurants like the Ryland Inn. And that's too bad. You don't gain by diminishing the achievement of others. You gain by doing the best work possible each and every day and reflecting thoughtfully on that work.

Scot--of course we can try to keep this thread neat and tidy wrapped around all things canneles but sometimes groups of interested folk gather in one place and spin off. That's fine with me and that's why we have a killer search engine. Search on the site for pastry book talk, we've covered it previously, but could always get into it again in a new thread. Quick response here: like Patrice, I too much admire the Bau book--it was the hottest pastry book in NYC among pros when it came out and still there are few better. Add to that the Adria, Bras Dessert notebook, the Balaguer and early Herme. I have not seen the new Ducasse/Frederic Robert dessert book yet but I am hopeful--Steve P. has seen it and was at least visually impressed and with such a high standard of French books already out there, I'd expect it to be substantial. Your ability to embrace these books, well, depends on your level of ability! I buy all my books from Prince--but older titles like the Secrets Gourmands, which are in French and more "literary" or coffee table-type books are best purchased from Kitchen Arts & Letters.

Back to some of the real issues at hand--are the very best of New Jersey restaurants NOT reviewed by Grimes? If not, those that review NJ restaurants do not assign a star ranking but assign words instead--which do or do not "line up" to the same words assigned to the star ranking employed by Grimes? I'm sorry to appear dense but as this stuff isn't online--I see a question coming for Mr. Corcoran--and I'd like to know how a place like the Ryland Inn gets away with claiming any star ranking from the Times? It seems the vagueness of the system is purposeful--surely it is apparent to all involved? Which begs the question--is there a two-tier system employed by the NY Times in evaluating restaurants across the bridge which is inherently unfair to restaurants on both sides of that bridge? If this stuff from the NJ section of the paper is not online--do we have any ability to come up the list of the all the restaurants accorded the Times ranking of "extraordinary," the date of that review and the name of the reviewer?

Night--the brass molds aren't hard to find here at all--JB Prince has stocked three charming petite sizes on display in their Manhattan showroom and mailorder for quite a while. You might also want to check out Pierre Herme's treatment of canneles in his really beautiful pre-Dorie pastry book, called "Secrets Gourmands." It's on p. 126. I'm not familiar with the Silverton recipe but Herme's is by weight, which is always helpful when it comes to pastry and baking.