Steve Klc

Suzanne--do you know much about what kind of "organization" Starchefs is these days--it was started by a pretty famous NYC restaurant publicist, Fern Berman, wasn't it--and when I last dropped in it seemed to be a lot of industry fluff. I wonder if they've applied any criteria or selection process to any other "Rising Stars" outside of Washington DC? Have they pitched or posted this angle in other cities? (We must not be reading the same threads on eGullet, though, this site often seems all about shaping and defining criteria. For others especially.)

Money and the right sense of timing. Let me ask this--how many stories of "brilliant" chefs have we come across who couldn't impose the practical limitations on themselves in order to run successful restaurants in a sustained fashion putting money away the whole time? It may just be Jose is patient and practical as a fox beyond his young years and that there's more agreement in these posts that we realize.

I see we cross-posted but reacted the same way Vengroff! If we used F&W and Beard award precedents as part of the framework, that would rule out Fabio and Jose even though we know their national stars have only begun to rise. Should someone already 30+ be excluded? That might exclude Jay Comfort at Poste who not too many had heard of prior to Marian Burros mentioning him in the Times and might exclude Gian Piero of Elysium--who I have heard will be resigning shortly to open his own restaurant. What about underknown but definitely 30++ year old chefs now doing the best work of their career in new restaurants--like a Frank Ruta at Palena?

I'll start off--Michel Richard, Bob Kinkead, Roberto Donna. Their stars are still rising even after extensive careers. Unless you'd like there to be some age/experience/previous media exposure limits. (Can't say I'm too familiar with Starchefs or their criteria. I've only read the Stephanie Zonis chocolate pieces and they are drivel.) Should younger chefs who have already been nominated for the James Beard "Rising Star" chef award or the Food & Wine magazine designation in previous years be excluded now? Should we look for younger chefs in new positions? What about not-so-young chefs who have recently made the move to own or open their own restaurants rather than draw a salary? What's considered young anyway these days? But then that can be the problem with artificial age/gender media constructs.

Well, don't you also think one of interesting positive developments on the national food scene is there are more and more creative chefs making big names for themselves outside of New York and by reading eGullet closely, I at least sense that some of the more experienced NY residents feel a little left out of some of that process--that NY presents so many obstacles and hurdles, financial and media-wise, that these chefs are no longer rushing to get thee to NYC? They're just doing their thing wherever they are and the NY media is covering them anyway! Responding to Marian Burros, Tom Sietsema actually said something a bit defensive but I wonder if there isn't more than a few grains of truth to it: "And just for the record, my trips to New York over the past few years have been less and less delicious. With few exceptions (Atelier comes to mind), the Big Apple could use a Big Jolt of energy.”

Like them, love them or not, one thought about the desserts I should interject at this point: none of the desserts are "mine." As in wholly, independently, created completely in isolation and then bestowed upon Jose Ramon, Jorge Chicas the head chef and the public from on high. In terms of presentation, composition, sugar balance every single dessert at Zaytinya went through this joint discovery process--where over a period of months Jose and I sat down, shared, commented, tweaked and as a result every single end product was suffused or infused with his palate and expertise at the highest levels of achievement in dining and also in volume production. He made all of "my" desserts there more effective and more consistent. Mostly all of this is transparent to the diner--but some might find that kind of evolutionary process or collaboration interesting. Some specifics: left to my own devices the espresso/raki syrup and the pistachio cream would be slightly less sweet, the olive oil ice cream would have more lemon juice--Jose wanted less lemon juice so even more of the olive oil could come through and he kept urging me to make the espresso and pistachio just slightly sweeter because he knew the diners would find them more accessible and enjoyable that way. Left completely in the Steve/Colleen lab the pistachio 'creme brulee' would have been made without perceptible sugar--figuring the dates and date syrup would be sweet enough to balance it on the edge. Jose knew, though, the raki/espresso syrup would seem strange to our diners without the sweetness to temper the espresso, made with the Nizzi blend from La Colombe. Without the sugar, both desserts would have been more trendy and "media-cool" but with the % of sugar they are better restaurant desserts--and better serving the clientele. Those of you that know me a little bit have no problem imagining that I originally fantasized about presenting these glistening and painstakingly peeled dates lined up perfectly on top of perfectly cut rectangles of the orange shortbread with a perfectly placed quenelle of the olive oil ice cream on this very cool rectangular plate. Guess what? That might have been possible at a different price point--and at different levels of experienced staffing--but that frustration of not getting perfectly cut, perfectly level pieces of shortbread was frustrating for about a day. Not to mention the idea of servers walking so far with several plates of these dates sliding around. So we just eliminated the flaws and frustration, yet kept the same great tasting ingredients, by simply re-arranging them. That's why the shortbread--baked and then cut into rough portion sizes--is now crumbled in a single layer in the bowl a la minute. The dates stay put embedded in the crumble. So does the ice cream. All problems of imprecision solved. It actually eats better as well--it's more easily scoopable, still texturized, and you don't have to cut through that rectangle of shortbread. Since we already were doing a warm flat piece of a semolina cake on another dessert--crumbling removed the potential visual redundancy as well. This may seem tedious and anal, it's certainly not rocket science, but it's quite a fun process taking things down different roads for different situations and then ending up at a place you both know is right. One of the neatest aspects of my work with Jose.

Thank you for this followup s'kat. I hadn't been to Charlottesville in a while which is why I didn't respond, but I've found some very good work being done outside of DC proper, and I suspect there's better cooking than people realize in Fredericksburg, Richmond, Charlottesville, etc. In our area, I think Eve Zibart writing in the Post "Weekend" section stays on top of this outlying scene the best--she's the one who turned me onto the great job Jay Comfort was doing in Fredericksburg, my wife and I had a pretty impressive tasting menu at his hands based on her recommendation and look what happened recently--the guy gets the Poste job to turn it around and gets mentioned by Marion Burros in the NYTimes despite the fact that all his dishes happened to arrive at her table that day not warm. I'm glad for everyone cooking and living outside the immediate core that there is someone with a roving eye like Eve who pays attention to them, critically and without attitude or agenda.

My answers would be "Soon" and "you'll find out soon enough." Though the jicama roll with tuna ceviche dish on the dim sum menu might give you a hint. That's not my department, though. And I do have two new desserts at Cafe--they debuted just after New Years and you can order them anytime: a chocolate-banana-lime dessert and a coconut cream with a mango-vanilla salad and lime gelee. There's a hint of the wonderful Montes Late Harvest dessert wine in the mango salad. The rest will debut soon.

No Heather, at Cafe my strong recommendation is to just give yourself over to the chef, especially for the dim sum, especially for a first time. Maybe mention some things you just know you have to try, mention a few things you might be averse to, that kind of thing, but just sit back and allow the waves of intriguing dishes to roll over you. It's really a very different restaurant experience--smaller, more focused and attentive, more "creative"--that just happens to exist within what usually is this completely different, hip, sexy environment when it's dark. And I'll tell you what--if you're there at 9 or 10PM on a weekend watching these beautiful dreamy people walk up the stairs you'll know what I mean. You won't remember that the building could use a little facelift. Shaw started to get into this but say you are or you're with some of Washington DC's more typical conservative military/civil service/politico types when it comes to food--kind of unadventurous, possibly even nervous about stepping outside their box of safely defined food--well the success of so many of Jose's and Kat's dishes here is they're creative but not too strange and inaccessible. They're also just good. Foams aren't necessarily done well elsewhere; simple stuff is also not necessarily easy to do well. At Cafe there's this fried egg and bean dish on the dim sum menu. Trust me, it's sooo good. I don't know why but it is. As an "adventurous" diner you might not order this egg--but in the tasting it might just come upon you! And Cafe definitely has this kind of magic rare in this city--where even non-foodies can pick up those seemingly innocuous slices of pineapple--perfectly piled just so--with chopsticks and then proceed to talk about them, to talk about the dish. That doesn't happen so often in DC. That said--I do think it is possible to tailor how you order and what you order to your schedule--but I suspect if you made it clear to your server what you wanted, how much time you had, if you had to catch an event, etc. it would really be a non-issue. That's part of what I mean by the difference between 230 seats and 120 seats and a higher price point--with that higher price point legitimately comes higher expectation. Anyway you ordered a la carte you should be fine. Also, how this might be affected when the new Latino sushi bar is installed remains to be seen.

Free form for first visit is just fine. My strategy at Zaytinya now is similar it seems to Vengroff, and after a bunch of meals there I say hold onto the menu--and only order a few dishes at a time from a single station--what I do is work my way through stations, first a round of salads, the Santorini fava and dips--all from the cold station--then flag the server down and order a second wave--say several just from the deep fry station--then several from the saute station, like the shrimp saganaki, the squid with spinach and the Monti dusted with sumac, and so on. That works out better, I think, because even if the place is full as a diner you don't really know how busy the kitchen is and the individual stations on the line are--they could be before or after a slam or one guy could be under; recently I was in a party of three and we ordered like 15 dishes at once--and all 15 were delivered at the same time. Which meant only 5 or 6 were tried at optimal temperature because we simply couldn't taste each one fast enough. I think the servers handle these approaches very well--and why not take a little more control of how you order your dishes? It also helps to sit near the kitchen. The runners have less ground to cover to whisk something to you. At Cafe the dim sum brunch can seem just as free form--the food is more creative with more attention, more garnishing, seemingly more visible "application of technique"--and I'll also give you a bit of news: that bar on the third floor is being ripped out and a Latino sushi bar is being installed very shortly. So even dinner might get more free form there.

Tan--they don't make this stuff, they just distribute it, but they do have very stylish catalogs and websites, as you'd expect of a Spanish distributor.

Jake--did you ever write up a report of one of your "old" brunch experiences on the site? Link to it or tell us about it. Otherwise, that's the problem with creative dishes and simple-sounding names--you can't really compare the composition or the presentation or the portion size by reading the menu. For some that's the fun of it. I think to get the most out of Cafe dim sum you have to be willing to give up some control to the chef on a given day. Conveniently, Tom Sietsema and Jose actually discussed your issue in his recent Post online chat: "We begin today’s chat with a note from the chef at Café Atlantico, who wanted to respond to last week’s discussion about the price hike for brunch there: “Hi Tom and fellow chatters! I'm Jose Andres from Cafe Atlantico. After the comments last week posted on your chat about Cafe Atlantico jumping the dim sum prices, I want it to clarify what is really happening. I started dim sum over four years ago. Price was $19.95 and we offered small plates, up to 26, of very small creative dishes, until you couldn't eat more. Well, many people didn't want to eat so much, or spend that amount for brunch. Then we decided to charge every dim sum plate individually. Now our customers can get a pumpkin soup for $2.50 or duck confit with passion fruit oil for $6.95; many items are priced under $4, meaning you can have a feast for under $20 per person, of a very creative cuisine. On the other hand I had people that are asking "where is the dinner foie gras, Jose?” Some customers will ask at brunch when they don’t see it on the menu. Well, we are offering the $24.95 and $34.95 for those people that want to enjoy a long brunch, of very exciting food. What we did was to give a broader spectrum of possibilities for people to enjoy Cafe Atlantico. Now people can come in, have a decent brunch under $10, or celebrate a special moment with our deluxe or vegetarian tasting and enjoy our best dishes. Thanks.”

Ajay--1:30 should still give you the entire selection--but really, Jose and Katsuya and crew are so good at adding and subtracting to create different permutations it would probably be transparent to you. Alot of regulars and chefs come in so they often create things on the spot--for the Fat Guy brunch we received maybe 8 off-menu or ad-hoc dishes. I believe the only thing on the website is that "reservations are recommended" but I admit I haven't read it closely. One phone call should clear it up. The questions about where to go if you can only go to one place I think comes down to the difference between a 120 seat restaurant and a 230 seat restaurant--there are differences in scale across the board. Plus Jose has been refining his vision at Cafe for going on 5 years now and has a chef at the helm there in Katsuya who has spent 6 months at El Bulli and also previously ran the kitchens day to day at Pipa and Verbena in NYC. I think it also depends on what time/day you'd like to dine. I'd personally take the dim sum brunch--and discuss the very creative wine list with the GM Manuel Iquina--if you could go at that time of day versus a two plus hour wait on a Friday night at the Zaytinya bar before you can even sit down. Also, I think it depends heavily on what else is going on in "Penn Quarter," which I never heard of until I read the Marian Burros article--so the schedules and events of the MCI Center, the various theaters, etc. definitely come into play. It was also very funny to see an actual big blue "Penn Quarter" sign right across the street from Cafe on 8th Street--a street I've parked on 30 times and a sign I've never seen before.

Does anyone remember his Russian Tea Room review?

Oh yes, the Hacienda is very very nice--it's been around for 2, maybe 3 years and is their most expensive chocolate. Chocovic is direct-shipped from Georgia these days--my local distributor who carried it for years dropped them--and I don't expect the distribution to all of a sudden get better without more commitment on the part of Chocovic, but their entire (European) product line is not made available to the US. Of what is available, I only like the Ocumare (their VZ variety.) But I really like it. I just doubt they can be price competitive with the E. Guittard blends relying heavily on VZ beans.

A silpat is fine Lou. That way you can break it up, grind it up, rewarm it and use what you need more efficiently--and it will all be at roughly the same color. It will still darken slightly in time but way less than if you cooked up a small saucepan of it--then pulled it off the heat--and watched the color darken from the residual heat while you begin dipping. What's your nougatine recipe Lou? Nougatine might be harder than chocolate work and it's probably easier than pastillage--but all three are difficult to do well. It's a lost art so its unfamiliarity may throw you off--but if you think about it it's no different than what the Adrias are doing by cooking caramelos and crocants in between two thin silpats. Don't be afraid to keep shuttling your nougatine pieces in and out of a low oven so you can get better cuts and keep the flexibility of those triangles--so when you drape then inside a french bread mold to curve them they don't break. Also, use a heat gun to help "loosen" pieces that have cooled too much. It can help to use one of those heavy metal/nickel/stainless rolling pins. And don't forget to warm your sliced almonds before adding them to the caramel. Look in your school's library as well--there are some incredible french croquembouche books and pictures--with some very cool angular or curvy designs, chapels, things that really stretch the bounds of what is perceived as that traditional conical design. Guess that means pulled sugar roses are next for you! Joni--I haven't seen the Costco cream puffs--are they filled? The thing with the dipping is it is best if you dry out the pate a choux balls first--after baking and before filling--so it is kind of hard.

Elizabeth--remind us if you know how to temper chocolate and how you're planning to make the truffles. Are you planning to pipe out little balls of ganache, coat your hands with some tempered chocolate and then roll them? Are you planning to "dip" them? "I am on a budget though, so I was wondering if anyone could recommend a brand that won't cost me an arm and a leg. With the amount of money I've already spent on the shower, I was even considering using Guittard (in my opinion, really excellent) chocolate chips for the centers, and only buying the higher quality for the coating chocolate. Would this be just--wrong???" Maybe not "wrong" but maybe shortsighted on a few levels. Regular Guittard chips might be good for chocolate chip cookies. Define for us "arm and a leg" in terms of dollar amount. I think using the best quality chocolate you can afford for the center/filling is as important as the shell. However, if you wanted to know where some might cut due to cost--most cut cost with the coating--using some basic affordable temperable couverture to coat their chocolates and truffles--and then using some of the better chocolates--the Manjari, the Cuba (which I don't really like btw) for their various ganaches. The thought being you're only going to have a thin shell anyway. Personally, I think if you're going to go through the trouble of this exercise, you should be prepared to spend $3 to $4 a pound for your chocolate, which would roughly be the wholesale price for an #11 box. I now rank the Cacao Noel way above CB Favorites mi Amere these days for cost and performance as a basic couverture--we've now tempered maybe 60 pounds of the Noel after having worked with CB for about 10 years. Michael--to answer your question about current CB vs. pre-merger CB--I feel the white and the CB Favorites mi amere 58% are just slightly "thicker"--not as loose and fluid--as they once were. That might be a conscious re-formulation rather than production inconsistencies. But I don't use any CB anymore--there are too many better, more interesting alternatives at better prices. I've never used the DGF that Lesley recommends but I believe for a few years Payard did and I always thought that was due to price--that DGF could be had for a better price than the CB and was the entry-level acceptable French chocolate. I don't think anyone ever wrote home really nice things about the flavor of this chocolate, though. It was serviceable and got the job done performance-wise. And I don't know anyone currently using DGF. I haven't found better milk chocolates than the Cluizel 45% and the El Rey--but I'm always open to options. I've never tried the Guittard but will. E. Guittard pistoles can be had for less than $4 a pound. As I've written elsewhere, right now that's the chocolate I'm most enthusiastic with--I use the 61%, the 72% and their special (more expensive) 65% bars, especially the L'Harmonie and the Ecuador. You can do some very special things with these products, the flavor, interest and performance rival the Cluizel and Valrhona high end, but at very fair prices. Especially in things where the chocolate itself really comes through--i.e. the chocolate is not heated too much.

As we've said, pastry chefs in the US have used brik for years--no doubt because it is less fragile and less delicate than phyllo--and also as Michael notes it doesn't dry out the way phyllo does. Here's the thing, though--the down side of brik is it is not the light, delicate and fragile phyllo--so if not used judiciously it doesn't just crack with a fork and can be as problematic on a plate as some garish molded chocolate cup or cop-out Chocolates a la Carte container. Pastry chefs love it most, though, because molded containers of it are much easier to store and handle. My question for everyone who has used it--has brik gotten better over the years? Are there different thicknesses?

The mixing white and dark thing I learned from Kurt Walrath, who when he was at the Rainbow Room was perhaps the best non-French pastry chef working in the US. He's now an amazing glass artist in Rhode Island. This is just for decor Lou--for showpiece work--so taste isn't a factor. I'd still temper and mold with real milk chocolate for bon bons. Also, for decor work milk chocolate is not strong--not anywhere near as strong as white or dark. Hence, by combining white and dark you not only get the milk color but increased strength. Plus the time savings of not having to temper 3 chocolates. PS--I think it's really cool you are starting to get exposed to this side of the business and that you have an opportunity to work closely with a MOF candidate. Please continue to file reports of your progress and his progress.

"I am sure the pastry at Payard would be much better if Payard himself made each item." I am not so sure--there were times when Payard had younger, better pastry chefs working for him--MOF's--which he himself is not, running his production. It is very possible to hire specialists to do their specialty to work under you who might actually be better than you are as the general and generalist.

My top 3: FPS (Jacquy Pfeiffer) in Chicago, The Chocolate Loft (Drew Shotts) in NYC, Ewald Notter's school in Gaithersburg, MD.

Lou--in polycarbonate molds I always do dark first then white--the theory being white--which tempers and works at a lower temperature than dark--will not pull the dark out of temper. The reverse--white in first then dark second--might pull the white out of temper because it, the dark, tempers and works at a higher temperature. But I've seen it done white down first by some and it turned out just fine, nice and shiny. I just don't do it that way. Marbling on plastic sheets for cutouts or poured marbling--as in pouring out a half inch piece for a base--is slightly different and a more advanced technique. You have to do it to see what I mean. Some people put all the chocolates in a bowl, swirl a bit and dump out; some pipe and stripe and pour colors separately and then spatula a bit. Really a matter of effect and personal style. I actually never use tempered milk for anything--it's not as strongly set as white or dark; just mix your tempered white and dark together quickly and you'll get the milk color. That way you only need to temper and hold two chocolates--white and dark--and not three.

Scooter--what kind of food or cooking? Zeb--I've done both of them as well--you nailed it. Good. But there was a real good coffee roaster in Shockoe Bottom last time I was there--a few years ago. Is it still there? Mt recommendation for you saycheese is to drive a little further and eat at Bistro 309 in Fredericksburg before Jay Comfort moves up to take over Poste in the District. He does Cashion better than Cashion and as a chef--he's at least as talented as the talented Bruno Fortin. The restaurant and its cooking is quietly elegant but completely warm and welcoming.

Move to New York or Paris. (I know, but you asked for help.) Seriously, sounds like you should compare against the higher end (more expensive) Cluizel--which has that wide range of 72% varietals--and also against the E. Guittard 65% like "Ecuador Nacional" and the 64% "L'Harmonie."

I can also second Scot's recommendation as an alternative Robert--both Lenotre volumes (each $60 or so?) are worth adding to the library. Especially if you think this won't be a passing obsession. I like, and have used, their whole series. It's the closest thing we have to a modern version of the (still really good) Bilheux & Escoffier "Professional French Pastry Series." And with Bau--I'm not sure if your interests lie elsewhere--but this book has been incredibly influential among French and French-leaning pastry chefs working in the US. You see his influence everywhere.