jesskidden

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DR. BROWN LIVES! Just got off the phone with customer service at the above number for Canada Dry (the extension isn't correct, however, that'll link you to a voice mail to apply for a driver's job- altho', I suppose if you're a driver, you'll have access to fresh Cel-Ray and maybe an employee discount on top of that). They claim that Cel-Ray IS still being made, that any store that carries the other Dr. Brown soda flavors can order Cel-Ray and that any rumor of it's demise is probably the result of the discontinuation of the Diet Cel-Ray. Now, to find some... "If Dr. Brown don't cure you, nobody can do you no good..." Lyric from the song "Doctor Brown" written by Waymon Glasco, performed on the vinyl album "Mr. Wonderful" by Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac (back when they were a BLUES band and a darn good one at that, you know, for Limeys and all....).

Did I say that? Actually, my point was that even tho' the post was on the BevNet site, it was hardly official. From previously poking around I've done on the 'net, I thought the situation was that "Dr. Brown" is merely canned/bottled by Canada Dry under contract, and that the brand was not OWNED by Canada Dry (which, of course, is now merely a division of 7Up/Dr. Pepper, which is in turn owned by Cadbury Schweppes). At least, that's how I thought it worked, but I notice that the cans don't say "canned under contract by" or other such wording or mention any other company. http://www.dpsu.com/ Maybe there no room in the portfolio for more than one "Doctor". (Wanna have some fun- go to the CS home page http://www.cadburyschweppes.com/EN , click on "About Us" and search for a brand- whoa... ) If you check under "Brands" at either the CS or Dr.Pepper/7 Up sites, you'll note that they don't even LIST the "Dr. Brown" brand (altho', they keep in "regional" distribution, like Squirt & Vernors). So, if the "Dr. Brown" brand is independently owned, it's entirely possible that they could move the contract to a different bottler. (Similar contract moves happen in brewing all the time, when a beer is contract brewed by someone else but the demand either grows too big or too small for the current brewery to handle/bother with. ) Dr. Brown is listed under a "Cricket Cola" (huh?) at the American Beverage Org. site http://www.ameribev.org/variety/who.asp along with an #800 number, which turns out to be Canada Dry ( (800) 784-4486 X 256, if you're into complaining about Cel-Ray's disappearance Monday morning...). Seems to me there used to be a separate website for the Dr. Brown brands, but I can't find one anymore. If one checks the various soda pop internet sites, tho', you'll see that Dr. Brown's, in bottles, comes in a variety of shapes, labels and sizes (I only see cans anymore in NJ), so it's possible that it's made at more than one bottler. (CS uses a lot of independently owned bottlers for it's many brands). Hmmmm... how 'bout just throwing some celery seed in a coffee grinder (rinse well before the next morning's coffee... ), pour through a strainer, into a typically bland, flavorless, modern "Ginger Ale" (like Canada Dry's or even "Vernors" which sure has lost a lot since the purchase by CS).

Is that really "news"- an official statement from Canada Dry- or just a post about "reports" (business talk for "rumors", I suppose) on another list, albeit an beverage industry one? Not that I'd doubt it- I've been complaining about not being able to find Cel-Ray in most central NJ supermarkets, even those with large Kosher sections and in Jewish neighborhoods, even tho' the stores do stock the Dr. Brown's Cream and Black Cherry. I'd say they missed out on dozens of cases sold from me alone in the last few years. My wife actually found it somewhere last year and gave me a six pack for Christmas- that's how rare it's been for me. (Never did get around to asking her WHERE she found it, now that I think about it- perhaps in a Stop 'n' Shop that's surrounded by retirement villages populated by escapees from NYC and North Jersey. I tend to avoid that store- it's just too frustrating to do a "quick" shop. I once gave a dollar to the woman ahead of me in the mis-named EXPRESS AISLE who was arguing about an expired coupon for a product she didn't buy in the correct size, just to move things along.) I mean, I'm not expert, but it seems that if Canada Dry or it's distributors don't STOCK the brand, sales are gonna suffer.... One would think that's there's enough demand for celery soda, that another local NYC metro area soda company (Boylan's, maybe) would pick up the style.

As much as I like Samuel Smith's beers (when they first hit these shores in the late 70's, they were very expensive but eye opening and I spend one great afternoon touring the brewery, sticking my head in the famous slate Yorkshire squares and breathing in the heady aroma), I must say that their use of clear (and light green) glass bottles for many of their beers means I don't buy them often. "Skunkiness" in beer is strictly a matter of exposure to light and happens in a matter of hours, so no matter how "fresh" your beer is, if you've bought in from an open shelf in a brightly lit US store, you're not getting good beer. (Altho', the amount of hops & alcohol level also have an effect on how skunky a particular beer becomes.) Every year, a friend and I would discuss buy a sealed case of their Christmas beer in order to get fresh, unskunked beer, but seldom did it. It's a real shame that so many UK brewers are using clear glass (the light green glass used by St. Peter's isn't much better) and using the pint bottle sold individually as their main product in the US. Give me a closed, sealed six pack anyday!

Not all beers that use the word "Chocolate" in the name or description contain actual chocolate. "Chocolate" also refers to a type of malted barley that is roasted to the color of chocolate -aka "chocolate malt" (which sounds like something one should order down at the shake shop or drive-in)- other malts include "crystal malt" and "black patent malt" (which does NOT contain Catholic school girls' shoes). In addition, the multiple flavors that roasted grains and the sugars that result after processing often includes ones that can be described as "chocolate". F'r'instance- from the site you cite- "We use three mashes to brew each batch of this beer, achieving a luscious deep dark chocolate flavor through a blend of specially roasted malts." I agree that with some many brewers now adding actual chocolate, it is confusing. (Much like some "Oyster Stouts" that now longer contain oysters/shells, but are said to "go well with oysters"). Surprised that, in the US particularly, that the labeling police aren't as concerned with the word's usage as they are (were?) with terms like "barleywine".

I think the laws vary from state to state on what and what isn't allowed as far a brewers and distributors freebies to retailers. In NJ, they outlawed coasters for awhile years ago and, IIRC, when coasters came back, they outlawed branded clocks. (When they prohibited them, many bar owners went down in the basement to find some old coasters rather than have to buy them and it was a field day for collectors- I remember a local bar with "Schaefer Braunlager" coasters (a beer no one even REMEMBERED). I come across bars that serve beer in the brewers' glass (Old Bay in New Brunswick, where the bartender was always happy to "look the other way" if you really wanted a glass and were a good tipper) but just a frequently, one sees bars that serve any beer in any glass (always annoying to be drinking a Yuengling Lager out of a Bud Light "pint"- "What if someone I know walks in and see me?"). What annoying to me is the ever growing instances of liquor stores SELLING branded glassware that's obviously GIVEN to them by the distributors. And they don't sell 'em cheap, either- usually around $5. Especially common in "good beer" stores in NJ. One would think THAT'D be illegal.

My wife picked up a couple bottles of GUS Grapefruit soda for me (since she knows I like Grapefruit soda and my one good local source, Genuardi's, closed their store and the Blue Sky that's on the shelves in the "natural food" sections is often stale, dated from 2004). The GUS I had had the overwhelming aroma & flavor of "rancid" (I could not even choke it down). I checked their date code, couldn't figure it out, wrote the company with my question/comment and they sent back a rather nasty note to the effect of that I don't appreciate the "adult" taste of a non-sugar laden soda. "Adult" = "rancid"? Now, it may very well be that I just don't care for their "grown up" soda, but one would think a small company looking for a niche in a market dominated by giants, would be more tactful- they wouldn't even give me their date code. (I drink grapefruit juice regularly and hate that pink, sweeten stuff they serve in many diners).

Squirt in the US *used* to be grapefruit soda IIRC. It even had bits of pulp in it. It's now in the Cadbury-Schweppes owned Dr. Pepper/7-Up stable of brands that are, at least on the East Coast, rather poorly distributed- I don't see it (or many of their other brands) in New Jersey. From the website, it looks like they might be using the name for flavors, much like all the other soda brands (Citrus Burst? Might still be grapefruit, but why not say it? They don't even MENTION grapefruit until the last 2 sentences)- http://www.dpsu.com/squirt.html Don't know what it's like- I know the Vernor's I've had from C-S is pretty bland compared to the old stuff licensed out of Detroit. ( Which I used to only find in Pennsylvania, even tho' the cans came from a bottler in Asbury Park, NJ- go figure).

There sure were a lot of mistakes in all these articles about Owades. I'd first heard about his death on NPR, which interviewed Brooklyn Brewery's Garrett Oliver. Oliver claimed that Owades worked for "Gablinger's Brewery"- but one would thing that HE would know that "Gablingers" was just a fake name, a "dba" of Leibmann/Rheingold of Brooklyn. In addition, he said that Owades then "gave" the recipe to a fellow brewmaster at Meisterbrau, which marketed it as Meisterbrau Lite. (Meisterbrau's brands were later bought by Miller around 1970, which is where Miller got Lite). Yet, Meisterbrau Lite predates Gablingers by several years (1964 vs. 1968). The NY Times claims that "Miller bought Gablinger's", but that never happened, as far as them owning the "brand" (perhaps they bought the recipe for Gablinger's, but why would they if they already owned Lite, which is claimed to have been the same recipe?) (One of my favorite beer "what-if's" however, is the fact that Meisterbrau actually had Ballantine of Newark (dba Feiganspan) contract-brew their "Lite" for the East Coast market. If only the "Lite" boom had happened then (rather impossible without the money and advertising know-how of Philip Morris, but...), perhaps Ballantine could have held on longer and we'd still have a good Ballantine XXX Ale, still have a Ballantine India Pale Ale and, hell, let's wish for a continuation of Ballantine Burton Ale (let's see, we'd be drinking a "brewed in 1984, bottled in 2005" version these days, I guess.) And then there's THIS sentence from the San Francisco Chronicle: "Rheingold Beer, which was the first and last beer to be brewed in New York City, resurrected the brand several years ago, hiring Mr. Owades to re-create the flavor he invented some 40 years before." Waaaa? The "first" beer brewed in New York City? Wouldn't that have been brewed circa 1632 when the West India Company build a brewery in New Amsterdam? And the "last"? I guess this refers to the moving of the contract-brewed "new" Rheingold out of Matts in Utica, to a micro in Brooklyn, but, c'mon.

As a regular drinker of Hop Devil, Hop Wallop came as something as a disappointment. Most of the "wallop" is the alcohol rate (and price), the actual hop bitterness is not much greater than HD. And, it seems to me, it rather quickly loses a LOT once bottled (quicker even than 'Devil & Prima Pils, both of which I try to buy with a "Enjoy by" date of 2 months away or more). I had a bottle left from last year's supply and drank it about 6 months after bottling and had to check the label after I took the first drink- "THIS is Hop Wallop?". That said, as a "hophead" from the days of Ballantine XXX Ale and India Pale Ale, someone who used to pick a hop flower from my vines and chew it in the garden (or while I was drinking a low hopped beer), I don't think the hopping rate of any beer should be painful or so dominate that everything else is missing. (That hop tea with alcohol.)

Sorry to have confused so many with my reply. I did not mean to imply that Cel-Ray = grapefruit soda- only tacking on the fact that I was *also* having a difficult time finding a different "clear" (i.e., not "cola" dark) soda. Nor did I mean to imply that Dr. Brown stopped making Cel-Ray, ONLY that I can't find it in many of the supermarkets from which I used to buy it (including one store with a separate Kosher butcher counter and large Kosher food selection). I do find the other flavors of Dr. Brown being carried and find it odd that the "most important" flavor is not on the shelves I check in central NJ. I also note that "beer depot" type stores are a vanishing breed in central NJ (as opposed to PA., where the beer retailing laws support them). The two that I knew (in Edison and Linden) have been gone for 20 years and most NJ discount liquor store chains that I go to (and I go to a lot of 'em <g>) don't carry much soda and usually only the majors.

Fresca is only available as a "diet" soda with artificial sweetener, tho', right? I'm looking for "real" soda <g>. BJ is one of the those "member only" outfits, right? Will have to check it out next time they offer a free pass coupon.

I haven't seen the regular Cel-Ray for a year or so in the supermarkets that used to carry it (they still have cans and plastic liter bottles of Black Cherry and Cream, diet and regular) so I was afraid it was dropped entirely. Anyone know a source in central Jersey? I also miss grapefruit soda - I used to buy the store brand at Genuardi's (owned by Safeway) but they closed my local branch in New Jersey. Any other NJ area chains carry a grapefruit soda? Occassional I see grapefruit soda from Blue Sky, but it's often very old (2 years+) and usually sold in the "natural food" section for top dollar.

"Most"? The last time I checked (in the NJ, at least) only the Guinness Extra Stout is coming from Labatt (InBev). Guinness Draught, in keg, bottle and can (the latter two with "widgets") were still Irish-brewed and, I'd guess, far outsell GES in the US. Has this changed? (I don't drink much Guinness, tho' I still have some bottles of Irish brewed GES and a bottle of GFES cellared that I should drink soon, I suppose. I had a six pack of O'Hara's Stout a week or so ago and enjoyed it a lot.) ← I didn't mean most of the varieties, but I'm quite certain that the vast majority of beer which is labeled as Guiness is brewed by Labatts. Admittedly I wrote that without checking the absolute truth though. ← I didn't realize you were in Canada -altho' your statement said "North America" and it's safe to say that the US beer market and Canadian market are different [i'll leave out Mexico for simplicity <g>] and the US's is bigger. I DID check Guinness packaged goods yesterday in a liquor store in NJ and it's as I said- Guinness Draught (bottled and canned with widget) is clearly and unambiguously labeled "Brewed in Ireland", only bottled Guinness Extra Stout is labeled as being from Canada. (IIRC, the patented "widget" technology can only be licensed by brewers in the UK and Ireland, for some reason, right.) As I understand it, kegged Guinness Draught (redundant?) is also from Ireland in the US. From the (admittedly not very forthcoming- they don't even *mention* Labatt or Canadian brewed) Guinness website: " Today the Dublin brewery produces GUINNESS® Draught for Ireland, the UK, Europe and the United States." http://www.guinness.com/global/beer/brewin...re/default.aspx On the Canadian version of the site, the same page says only " Lovingly poured around the world, GUINNESS® Draught is Ireland’s best-selling beer." http://www.guinness.com/row_en/beer/draught/default.aspx And from what I see, I have to think that Guinness Draught (all 3 packages) FAR outsells GES in the US. Just about every bar in NJ with more than a couple taps has it on draft and it's sold in every beer store. So, tho' it may be that most Guinness in Canada is Canadian Guinness, I REALLY doubt that "Most Guiness available in north america is brewed by Labatts" if "most" means total quantity of beer sold. Speaking of the differences of the US and Canadian market, I always thought it was funny that you guys got "real" Tuborg and domestically brewed Carlsberg, and we got "real" Carlsberg and a version of Tuborg brewed by Carling-National (later Heileman). That was a long time ago, tho'.... our Carlsberg is from Labatts, now, too, I think (not that I bother with such beers, tho' I guess I would buy a bottle of Danish brewed Elephant if it was available, just for old times sake).

"Most"? The last time I checked (in the NJ, at least) only the Guinness Extra Stout is coming from Labatt (InBev). Guinness Draught, in keg, bottle and can (the latter two with "widgets") were still Irish-brewed and, I'd guess, far outsell GES in the US. Has this changed? (I don't drink much Guinness, tho' I still have some bottles of Irish brewed GES and a bottle of GFES cellared that I should drink soon, I suppose. I had a six pack of O'Hara's Stout a week or so ago and enjoyed it a lot.)

I don't stop into as many "good beer stores" as I used to (moved & unemployed) but I was sorta shocked the other day when I stopped into both Joe Canal's (US 1) and Marketplace (EB, NJ) and saw ALL those pumpkin beers- there had to be a dozen of 'em- possibly more than several other more respected beer styles. (Doesn't Saranac also make the pumpkin beer for Blue Moon and, uh, doesn't Brooklyn have one, too, brewed by Matts?) Now, I usually try most every new interesting beer that hits NJ, but I long ago gave up on most fruit beers or spiced beers (excluding Belgian styles), including the pumpkin ones. Do people (of the non-beer geek variety) really drink these things or are they more of a gimmick beer, something funny to bring to a Halloween party (and, IIRC, isn't Halloween now the second biggest holiday for alcohol sales, after NYE?) and one finds a lot of half filled bottles around the house after the party? My memory of the one or two I had when the style first appeared was more "pumpkin pie spiced" than really "pumpkin" used as a malt substitute. I guess I'm a traditionalist and would prefer to see Octoberfests as THE seasonal style this time of year. (Which brings to mind why "bock" is NOT the typical Spring seasonal- it was the one of the few seasonal styles that survived during the pre-micro era.)

I used to buy Grapefruit soda at Genuardi's (a subsidiary of Safeway, so it was Safeway's store brand- whatever that was) but they closed the store in NJ. Oddly, they didn't (or couldn't) cancel their billboard accounts, so the area still has Genuardi billboard ads. Wegman's is about the only source I've found for Cranbury soda in NJ (it seems to be a NYS/NE flavor) but they are often out of it and the don't carry it in cans, only 2 liter bottles. I like the Black Cherry, Lime and the Strawberry sodas at Whole Foods (365 brand) AND they're made with cane sugar. Whole Foods also carries Blue Sky soda (not a store brand- out of Arizona)- so that's been my only Grapefruit soda source lately- but it doesn't seem to move for them- the date code SEEMED to be from 2004.