rich

Wondering why is a lot different than using terms such as bizarre and/or silly - that's disingenous

One person's food is another's fodder. I'll use my list of six restaurants (I don't think it's fair to use another person's choices) to make my point. Of the six, I'll assume no one has a problem with Per Se and ADNY (except the post that said no restaurant except Danube is worthy of four stars). Chanterelle, Nobu and Aquavit are currently three stars under the NY Times and any of them could be elevated, though there seems to be some dissatisfaction with each among the posters. The Tasting Room, as I said earlier, was my most difficult and controversial choice. While I realize the ambience doesn't come close to what the NY Times considers four stars, I qualified that by saying I don't give as much weight to that area as I do food and consistency. So leave that as my wild card - I just think the food is so good, it rises above the lack of ambience. Let's look at the other NY Times four stars. I have not been to the current Bouley, but from reading the posts, there is a substantial amount of criticism concerning this place. Same is true with Le Bernadin and JG (where I haven't been). I have been to Daniel once and had a terrible experience - I won't go back even if someone else was paying. Bottom line, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on any of the four stars. Each has received some criticism based on individual experience. To criticize an experiened diner's list of four stars because its bizzare or silly is a bit disingenuous. Everyone formulates their opinions based on personal experience. In looking at the lists that were posted, I can see the point of view for each case. What I find fascinating is the most critical people have just been that and not posted their choices. Criticism is easy, offering an meaningful alternative takes some intelligence and decency.

Yes, that's where the old 15-5-3 comes into play. Even if you eliminate the captain (there are very few today), then you're still leaving a 20 percent tip on the total bill.

One of sites I found on tipping the sommelier said never under $10 & over $50 is excessive. Never under $10 can be problematic. There are a couple of restaurants (Landmarc for one) that are selling wine at Liquor Store prices. They have some great choices in the $20 range. Giving the wine steward a $10 tip on one $20 bottle seems excessive. On the other hand never more than $50 can also be a problem. If a steward has made several selections (and good ones) and the total bill comes to more than $2,000.

The Merlot and Chardonnay are undrinkable and "uncookable" and at price at any time. The 2002 Sauvignon Blanc is quite pleasant but simple, the 2000 Cabernet is a good value and the 2002 Gamay Beaujolais and Shiraz are worth the price for an informal party or bar-b-que.

I guess I should have said, if you're giving cash don't make a big fuss over it, as we have all seen happen.

This is by no means the difinitive word, but it's a good rule of thumb. In high end restaurants the 15-5-3 system normally works. Meaning 15 for the wait person, 5 for the wine steward and 3 for the matri'd or captain. This is an older custom when the matri'd or captain would seat you, take your order and make sure everything was working well at your table. In today's restaurant scene tipping the wine steward is strictly a personal choice. If the sommelier has selected the wine (not merely brought you your selection), then tipping 5 percent of the total bill is appropriate. Otherwise a $5 or $10 tip would be fine (depending on the number of bottles ordered, it should rise accordingly). You can do it in cash (discreetly as you leave) or make a separate space for it on the credit card receipt. Years ago, credit card slips had spaces clearly marked for the "Captain" and "Wine Steward." Diners Club started this and other cards picked it up. I haven't seen that in years though. If still unsure, make a discreet trip to the host/hostess and ask if the wine steward gets a percentage of the total tip.

I agree with you Craig. I know I've suggested White Zin to people getting started with wine. It eases them in quite nicely. Thank you Mr. Trinchero

and consumer behavior is often controlled by the business behind the product. point being, if restaurants gave even a second of thought to their wine lists, people would be drinking better wines. they don't, so people don't. and if it continues, no amount of time will help. Add to that if restaurants limited themselves to a 100 percent markup, instead of 300% and above.

I've actually had two poor experiences the only times I've been there.

Never been to Danube, but plan on going within the next month. You're absolutely correct about Blue Hill - I mistakenly left it out of the second category I listed. The gray matter is beginning to fail. PS - I have corrected my Post.

I thank her everyday, but spell it with an upper case "G."

Well, that's a step up from what it was in the 60's - Thunderbird (the 1957 vintage I believe.)

If you can hit a baseball coming at at 90+ miles per hour with thousands of people screaming then you can cook with a few people talking.

I'm going back next month and I've never had a problem with the food. It's probably first or second in kitchen consistency. If there's a problem, it may be with the menu in that it lacks a certain depth. But that should not keep it from being considered as the top place in NYC.

and now that the team has left? (from what i understand) I didn't know that - I haven't been there since the end of October. Any info as to where they went?

does the Tasting Room, then, have the "ambience"? i can't imagine awarding 4 star to a restaurant where i have to get up from my table to let other people sit or go to the restroom. That was my most difficult choice. But the food is so good (and consistent) that I would give it four stars if the restaurant was located in the Canal Street Subway Station during rush hour.

I'm going to play this game even though I abhor the star system. I also give less credit for ambience and more for the quality and consistency of the food. With that said and in alphabetical order: ADNY, Aquavit, Chanterelle, Nobu, Per Se and the Tasting Room. Here are some others serving four-star food, but without sufficient consistency or ambience: Blue Hill, Gramercy Tavern, Grocery, Henry's End, Sparks and Union Square Cafe. And a few others to watch: Bayard, Landmarc and L'Impero.

And they have reservations at the other three restaurants as well.

Guys, we're getting a little too carried away with this. I only did this because of two factors: 1. restaurants "make" you reserve two months in advance and if you miss by a day or two, there's nothing left. Per Se and Bouley were two months and the other two were a month. and 2. It's a very special occasion and I wanted to give my wife a choice. ( I don't do it often - one other time in the last year.) I don't believe anyone is going to get hurt or forced to miss a reservation (or need to cool their heels) . As I stated, I will cancel all of these at least a week out - more if possible. If a restaurant chooses not to give me a reservation because I cancelled one or two in the past, then so be it. They certainly have that right. (What would they do the person who just doesn't show? Is public flogging still legal?) However, the three I cancel will fill their seats, especially since they're getting a week or more notice. I was aware that the restaurants probably read these boards, but they over book and/or hold back tables and we book multiple restaurants on the same night. That's the way the game is played - like it or not it's reality. This practice goes on all the time and if someone wasn't aware of it, they're suffering from the ostritch syndrome.

Speaking of stars, Crain's Business New York (which gives less four stars than the NY Times) just gave Chanterelle four stars. I haven't dined there since the fall, but I always thought it was in the top tier of NYC restaurants. While I not a fan of the star system, it was nice to see for the restaurant and its owners. At age 25, Chanterelle is aging better than any metro NYC restaurant. It certainly has the most elegant room.

My wife is celebrating a major birthday Monday, July 12th (she'll kill me if I say which one). I have four dinner reservations for that evening (I will cancel the other three a week out). Here they are: Biltmore Room, Bouley, Per Se and Spice Market. We have already eaten at Per Se and dined at Bouley's old establishment, but have not been to the Spice Market or the Biltmore Room. If you would be so kind and give your opinions about what would be the most appropriate, I would appreciate the input. There's another couple coming with us - so this is not a romantice type dinner - just looking for something special and/or different. Thanks.

But is the food better because of the ambiance as has been suggested or could it stand up to the true test - would it taste just as good if served in a trailer park?

And I would reply - Is that the same Cafe Pierre that has four-star food but its chef is just 5' 3", so he wasn't big enough to get four stars.

Very true Tommy. But sad that we've all been reduced to a number or decimal point.