Mark Donnelly

I'll try to respond. The link between Copenhagen and Vancouver is that Copenhagen is half the size of Vancouver but has some very, very fine, fine dining restaurants. Streets above what I've experienced in Vancouver. If Copenhagen can do it, there's no excuse for Vancouver not to do so. There are great local Chinese restaurants all over London, including the burbs. Therefore, why not in West Vancouver? I'm sure there are some very fine Asian/Chinese restaurants here. But no better than other cities such as London, San Fran, etc. My original post was about Fraiche and western fine dining in Vancouver. The bar, unfortunately, just isn't high enough. Size is not the issue re Copenhagen. So what is?

I would agree with all of the above. Btw, my brother lives in Port Moody and I went to high school there.

My post was about Fraiche. It is a non sequitor to jump to Asian/Chinese. You can find good Asian/Chinese in any city that has a large Asian/Chinese community. Vancouver is not unique in that; and yes, it is very average. For everyday Chinese, well I haven't found one in West Vancouver (where I live), apart from some dingy little place in Ambleside. Don't get me wrong. Dinning out in Vancouver has a number of positive aspects: friendly staff, spacious rooms, good distances between tables and a lack of table turning. But the food on offer is generally poor when compared to other cities. For example, Copenhagen (a city smaller than Vancouver) has some increadible restaurants including my absolute favourite (Kong Hans Kælder ). 20 years ago London was a dining out backwater. Sure there were some very fine restaurants; but they were few and far between and painfully expensive. What changed was the UK's closer intergration with the EU, the rapid increse in the number of overseas vacations (to Italy, France, Portugal and Spain) and the freer movement of labour (ie chefs). Vancouver, unfortunately, is geographcally isolated.

Describing the Boathouse as a restaurant is a trade description offence. It's a chain - just like the Keg is. It uses a formula for everything from the decor to the food. But the Boathouse in Port Moody. That's just plain weird.

I went to Fraiche (West Vancouver) a couple of weeks back. As the meal was disnctly less than memorable, I have not bothered to provide a detailed write-up. However, the experience confirms my view that (fine) dinning in Vancouver is grossly over-rated and would pass for very average elsewhere. I'm sure Vancouverites are very proud of the dining in the city, but you need to get out more. Like with a lot of things, its a triumph of style over substance. Fraich has stunning views across the Inlet to Downtown. But the dinning room is very loud (due to a tiled floor). There is no excuse for such an aspiring restaurant not to provide an amuse or two. But they were nowhere to be seen. My crabcake starter came with a chowder of dubious distinction (which was poured at the table) and sat on a bed of corn. I consider crab and corn to be an ill thought pairing. My first choice main wasn't available, so I settled for rack of lamb. Pretty hard to screw up such a dish - and they didn't- but it was easily the least memorable Rack I've had. We skipped desert, in part because the portions are too large. Fraiche offers a very limited menu (something I'm generally in favour of). But the quality is not enough to entice me back. I'm affraid this restaurant is probably doomed to fail (like the one that occupied the smae spot before).

Eatrustic: I assume you are referring to red wine. I personally avoid BC wine for the simple reason that it is not very good and vastly overpriced. Why should something produced locally be more expensive that imported Portugese, Greek or Spanish wine? Maybe I've been spoilt drinking very good Italian and Spanish wine. My neighbour is an avid BC wine colllector (400+ bottles), but I have yet to sample one that I would purchase, let alone go out of my way to purchase. I can't help but thinking wine production in BC is more about lifestyle choices than end product. But back to your subject, I think this is just an increaseing trend world-wide. I have a 98 Numanthia Toro which comes in at 14.5%. My 2000 Roda I comes in at 14% as does my Gia Estate. These are hugemongous reds that can take the additional alcohol.

Nope. No need to. The fact that they were carrying it means that people are willing to buy it. The question needs to be directed at those customers buying it. It's the same everywhere though. Last summer (non-apple season mind you) I was holidaying in the Okanagan and saw apples from either Chile or New Zealand in a local mini market. I agree with Matt. Unless people buy local and in season we will continue to import food from ludicrous places. But price is the most important factor. I've just returned to Vancouver after 20 years from London (UK). Vancouver has higher than London food prices, higher than London house prices, but no where near London wages. Cheese costs twice what it does in London. Taxes are higher, utilities are higher. Yet real wages have decreased over the last 20 years. Go figure! I've never sen such a false economy as I do in Vancouver (and I'm an economist). The economy is based entirely on a immigration (both intranational and international) of monied individuals, a 2010 construction boom (that must end) and the exploitation of non-renewable resources at record high commodity prices. Scratch below that and there's not much. Real estate doesn't lead the economy, it follows it. The lumber industry is in self-inflicted terminal decline. Fisheries - well that's how this thread started. Wow, I've almost convinced myself to return back to London.

Neither can I, but it's the truth. I was in Whole Foods the other day (it's th eonly place I can find creme fraiche locally). What did I spy at the wet fish counter: Russian salmon.

BC's economy has been built on resource extraction for a very long time. The only problem is that renewable resources (such as forestry and fisheries) were treated as if they were in fact non-renewable. Hence the state of the lumber and fishing industries today. My view is that restaurants can do little becasue they (a) are never on the forefront of any political movement, (b) have no political power and © are not a pressure group. They only sure thing is that whenever something is recognisde as being a problem, then it's too late. In the case of salmo, the runs will die off and we will simply substitue salmon from Russia. Is anything made in Canada any more? I'm begining to wonder.

Liberty's creme fraiche is quite passable as well, although like most food items (especially dairy) rediculously priced. My wife inadvertently picked up some Canadian Parmesan cheese the other day. It was just as expensive as the imported stuff and quite frankly awful. If you can't do it well, then don't do it at all. I guess someone must by such crap otherwise it wouldn't be sold in super markets. Quite how the averga person can afford to live in Vancouver is beyond me.

Nice to believe, but just not true. Just thinking of London, Paris, New York, Madrid, Rome, Tokoyo doesn't leave that many spaces. Then there's Marseilles, San Sabastian, San Francisco, Milan, Sidney, etc. Having eaten in most of the cities above, I'm sorry to say that Vancouver's restaurant scene is average at best. Vancouver has many qualities, but (fine) dinning out is not one of them.

Oyama is a real treasure. Their home cured Jamon is very good. And reasonably priced as well.

Many thanks for the reference. Went to the WM on Saturday (the market was,m shall we say, small). Picked up three different varieties of potatoes from Melmers (including Ratte). Absolutely fantastic. A real find. No more store bought spuds for me.

"Food Concept Architect" This is brilliant. I must add this to my Buzzword Bingo collection.

Well I'll be off to the WM this Saturday. Might make a morning of it.

Great - many thanks.

Having recently returned to Vancouver from the UK I have to say that I am very disappointed by the limited varieties of potato avialable. There are of course the ubiquitous Yukon Gold and Russet varieties. The Ykon is ok, but not nearly floury enough for pomme puree. The Russet is horrible (and that's being kind). Does anyone know where I can source other varieties (such as Maris Piper, King Edward, Ratte, ect)? There must be some place I can source the humble spud...

Click Here for the sad, sad truth.... ← Many thanks Sam. Makes for sad and painful reading, especially since there are may fine Canadian cheese makers in Ontario and Quebec.

Picked mine up in the first week in December (mind you, I was on a reservation list). It is good until first wek in January, so will be superb for Xmas and NY's But having returned to Vancouver after 20 year s in London, can anyone tell me my cheese (especially Canadian) is so flipping expensive in BC? I mean it is just rediculously expensive.

I've just returned to Vancouver after 18 years in London. Compared to Spanish, Portugese and Greek wines, BC wines are poorer in quality and more expensive. Compared to French and Italian wines, BC wines are poorer in quality. Overall, wine in BC is just too expensive. I pay 30%+ more for wine here than in London. ANd I thought London was an expensive city! If good quality BC wines exist, then they are (i) hard to find, (ii) in short supply and (iii) flipping expensive. BC's wine reputation outside of North America is zero (and for good reason). Inside NA I don't know what it is. As long as the industry is not protected, then the market will decide. For me, I'll give it a wide berth.

I disagree. Sure, if you can get the same thing cheaper elsewhere, then you are not going to pay for it. The key is to sell something different that people would be prepared to pay more for. Sebastian's is a case in point. He know who his suppliers are (all organic), will order what you want as long as it's availble, hangs his own beef (for 21 days) and stocks game. Capers or WFs certainly won't/don't do any of that.

I second Irishgirl. The only problem with DeMilles is that you'll have to que for an hour to pay for anything.

I'm not sure what the fuss is about. Capers is dreadful. It suffers from that old business school adage "to small to be big, to big to be small." In Dundarave there is a new organic butcher (Sebastian's). Capers meat selection is pityful by comparison. Haing just recently returned to Vancouver, I think there are enough specialty stores within a 40min drive that I almost never need to go to Whole Foods. Let's not forget that consumer demand is a very powerful force. Support local businesses, not corporations.

In the spirit of attaching photos, here's a few from my last dinner party. Dinning Table Pea and Coconut Cappuccino (David Everitt-Matthias) Dungeness Crab Salad with Avocado and Apple Compote Tomato Tart with Goats Cheese and Tomato Vinaigrette Herb Crusted Organic Rack of Lamb with Potatoes Anna and Glazed Carrots Raspberry Milkshake (John Campbell) Chocolate and Vanilla Cheesecake Nothing from GI. Sources were organic butcher in Dundarave (Sebastian's), Save-on-Foods, Whole Foods and Safeway.

Stephen, I'm sure the beef tasted great, but my own philosphy is to buy local (unless so obviously inferior) whenever possible. I've no idea why Canada (and BC inparticular) has to import much foodstuff. Support local produces and cut down on food miles.