canucklehead

Dylan You have raised some very good points and alot of things to think about.. I think that we are all actually very close to being on the same page. I agree that there are times when there needs to more rigor and criticisms on this forum. But if we are going to raise the bar on the level of criticism discussed here - then the first place to start is on our own (and I mean that generally) posts. Avoiding the personal slags and backing up comments with clear observations is, of course key. Being critical and being credible in your posts are not the same things. There is a lot of passion, fun, and wit in this forum and I enjoy all of it (especially when there are flare ups). Anything that moves things forward, improves the dialogue and challenges the group think is always good.

Based on Daddy-A's comments - I want to continue the discussion here. Eddy Good to see you so active in the forums as it is always interesting have a professional’s voice in here. I am one who holds back at times because of etiquette. I feel like people in the profession – especially those BOH really work their asses off. Both physically and mentally. So it is hard for an amateur like me to really pull out the knives at times. Even though I have shelled out big bucks (and I mean hundreds of dollars) for a so-so experience. It is easier for me to go after the FOH, where the errors can be more glaring and you can see it when it is a result of laziness, sloppiness, or just plan arrogance. But you bring up a good point in that without feedback – it is very difficult for improvement to happen. And you have pointed out that there is the sensible thing to do which is speak to the manager at the end of the meal. I didn’t have a sense of how serious these complaints are taken – but I appears that they are taken seriously. My point was that just because the forum does not take a harder stance, does not mean that eaters here are not informed. There are a number restaurants in Vancouver that are infuriating – so I pick ones that seem to do things well and try to nurture them through continued support and positive comments. But I will be honest with you – there are a very small number of restaurants in the city that I would feel confident that you could have three great courses. You are right that the ethnic food here is very good. Especially Chinese and Japanese – you’ll notice that I have been posting most heavily with my Chinese posts lately. I want to take some of the mystique and intimidation out of going to a good Chinese restaurant by posting pictures of the food when I go out. I hope that some people find it interesting or at least useful (and not too presumptuous). Your vision of what the food scene could be like in Vancouver is what I would desperately want it to be. I lived in SF for a number of years and I miss the food scene down there (except for Asian food – it is absolute crap in SF). In a one block stretch in the Mission District of SF – you have Tartin Bakery right beside Delfina Restaurant and just down the street from a stunning small organic grocery store. Each of these places are packed with people enjoying great local produce, artisan bread, and unfussy cooking that is some of the best I have had – period. It is possible for that to happen in Vancouver – we have the talent, the raw material, and the consumer, why it doesn’t gel together, I am not sure. How we get there requires, I think, both carrot and stick. I just like giving out carrots more.

I think that those who would like to see a more critical stance on this forum are jumping to conclusions if they think people do not see issues or can spot faults. But then I think - do we always need to have knives out? There is alot of boosterism on this forum because this is a tough restaurant town and the economics are not easy. You've got a couple of 900 lb gorrillas running around named Earl and Milestone that sops up every dinining dollar that they can get their hands on. So - do I error on the side of maybe keeping my mouth shut when things are not as great as the could be at the independent restaurants? Yeah - most definitely. Do I encourage people to check out places that may be below the radar. Again guilty. I feel like we should try to nurture places and people that are genuinely trying to make a difference. Sometimes those efforts fall short - but I do care about the dining scene here and I try to support those efforts. The real crappy places will sort themselves out - either that or the economics will kill them. Ringing silence is deadlier than any rant. Do I need to drive the knife deeper? Its not something that I want to do. I could give you a laundry list of places in Vancouver that make missteps and compare them to places in California, NY, or Asia where I have lived. But is it really constructive? To keep things on topic - it was interesting to see some of Foodie Girl's comments and she did back them up further with detailed observations. I myself agreed with some of her observations on the uneven service that happens at the Feenie restaurants. On the whole - I do agree that a bit more detail and observation is always useful whenever a comment is being made (and I will do so myself in future). Regardless if it is pro or con.

I have not been to Lumiere to eat for a few months - but I have heard things (positive and negative) about the three course meals but as it is hearsay for me - I won't get into it. However, I do want to make a comment about the service there. Before going to the egullet Fiction dinner, I stopped by for a quick (non-alcoholic) drink with some other egulleteers and I was not super impressed with the service at Feenies. For $4 I was served flat gingerale from a can (it was painfully clear that it was very flat). When the rest of the egulleteers had gotten up to leave and I was still paying my bill - the bartenders were giving off a weird vibe - exchanging glances and muttering. Don't know who they were talking about but it did not make me feel too welcome. No 'thank you' or 'come back soon' or 'have a good evening' as I paid my tab. So - I can understand how the service can feel off at Lumiere and Feenie's. Somehow, the spirit of generosity does not convey itself in the service there. For $300 bucks for two people - they better be firing on all pistons. When the place first opened up - I would make a point of going to Lumiere and having dinner whenever I was in town. Things started getting hot and heavy for them and reservations could be difficult to get. I stopped by one day to make a reservation and Rob Feenie took it down and said that he would let the hostess know. I did not know his name at the time and did not think it would be a big deal. I called back later to confirm the details and the hostess said that she did not get the message. I told her the chef took down my details and so I thought things would be okay. She told me to prove it by describing what the chef looked like. I was stunned. WTF!? I was being called a liar. My Feenie's stop over just brought those up all those bad memories. If you are going to aim for the top and charge like you are the top - then, everything has to right. I am sorry - but it is true, and it is fair because people are spending ALOT of money at your restaraunt. And I see other places doing a great job of it all the time. The Four Seasons in Whistler is flawless, Chambar still greets me warmly because I went so much when they first opened, and the servers at Earl's work hard and are always on their game. I will continue to eat at Lumiere/Feenie's because I do like the food alot and I have nothing but respect and admiration for Rob Feenie himself. I've seen him at food events and he does work very hard to continue promote Vancouver food scene. But service at his establishments that bear his name some how never feel quite so welcoming.

dillybravo Love it! Anyways - as for as my points were concerned - I was just just trying to figure out what makes a good churro and what makes a bad one. People who have had experience with the good stuff seem to think the Churrolicous ones don't measure up. Just let me know who I have to sleep with (or maybe threaten to sleep with) to the get the good ones - because they must be insane.

Went to Golden Szechwan (Broadway - just east of Burrard) for dinner tonight and had the following Cold poached free range chicken in spicy sauce Boiled beef in spicy sauce Dan Dan Noodles Chocolate Torte... OK it is a Red Bean Pancake. The food was very good. The cold poached chicken is served on the bone and is dressed (rather than cooked in) a spicy sauce. There was a nice contrast between the cool chicken and the spicy dressing. The peanuts are very important in the dish - crisp and fresh, kinda like good Virginia Peanuts. The boiled beef is actually a stewed beef in spicy chili oil. It did not have the citrusy flavour of sichuan peppercorn that I remember when I had this dish in Chengdu (China) - still it was very good - rich and peppery, but with good clean flavors. The Dan Dan noodles where probably the best thing. Seemingly simple - but rich, meaty, and spicy - with only a touch of peanut. This dish can be over dressed - but this version had the right amount of sauce - much like a proper ai olieo pasta. Overall the dishes all had good flavor and a slow heat that snuck up on you. Nothing too challenging. The host is from HK - he actually referred to himself as MIHK (made in HK) vs his staff who are mostly MIC (made in China). He was very friendly and helpful in puttting together a meal for people who were not very experienced with Sichuan food. He said for us to try the spicy crab next time. The final dish was dessert - red bean pancake - I would even try to convince you... either you like it or you don't. We polished this guy off - not too sweet and a nice eggy pastry (freshly made). Dinner with a beer and sour plum tea (to offset some of the spice) was $57 before tip. Chinese food is better with pictures no?

nondual1 - I want to give myself as many excuses to eat, and testing the 'authenticity' stuff is as good as any! As for - "bing tang dun hua jiao" (rehydrated fish-bubble in a crystal-sugar soup) - I think that this should be served at the next egullet function. The Alinea Project makes much stranger sounding food and it's supposed to be so cutting edge - so, why not a little fish-bubble for dessert?

Keith Must you call me on everything? They are $9 bucks a pop but not multi-course. You get a plate of the crispy skin (to be honest - I cannot remember if they are carved at the table) and a steamer of pancakes. A food blog has some pictures here. Still - it is a good deal for what I think the best part of the Peking Duck experience anyways - the skin - glorious skin!

Fortune Garden 1475 West Broadway I think their best thing is Peking Duck - good and at a good price.

I am not sure if these wonderful descriptions are really convincing - so I am not sure if you are dispproving Keith or merely driving the point home. 'Seed', 'Lentils', and 'Doubled Boiled' are not in the usual vocabulary of good desserts. It is an up hill fight. I also love the upthread arguments about 'authenticity'. You get a few Chinese people in a room and war can break out over what food is more 'authentic'. In this case, it sounds like an issue of degrees rather than out and out disconnect. So - there is'nt anything stopping me from going out there and eating it all. Daddy-A and BCinBC were exposed to 'authentic' HK Style Western food and did not seem impressed - hmm, so much for the 'real deal'.

I've seen it at Whole Foods - not sure if they have any in stock right now. I am going to check it out over the weekend.

I've been reading some of the upthread comments and some of the more experienced of us seem to feel like the churros are not the same as those that they had in Spain. I spoke to the woman who said she developed the recipe and it seems like most of the team running the place are from South America - could that account for some of the differences? That being said - I am in the camp that thinks these are pretty good anyways. The more I have them - the more I like them.. they are crispy (a good thing in my books) and fried well in clean spotless oil. The dulce de leche topping is delicous and not headache inducingly sweet. Deep fried dough (done well) what's not to like?

I have spoken to my Richmond contacts who tell me that KT, you have good taste. My contacts were just speaking of it today and said that the restaurant is very good and quite authentic. What 'authentic' means is that the food is very spicy. In fact it is "numbingly hot" - the kind where your lips get swollen and turn a dark shade of black. So - I am off to try it with a favored Aunt this coming Wednesday (very Asian thing - you always have an older eating companion who will guide you through the menu and -hopefully pay). When I mentioned to her someone on this website was curious about it - she said that she was not sure if the "Canadian Palate" could handle it. Well - if that is'nt some sort of challenge - I don't know what is. KT - I hope we are referring to the same place, smallish (about 10 tables) but very nice. Since I have not been yet - I cannot say what is good. >>> edited to add - why don't you call ahead and make a reservation? Only mediocre places would not accept reservations.

Do you mean "dun dan"? Do they have ginger-flavoured ones? Those are one of my favourite Chinese desserts. ← No - it was 'dun dan' or steamed eggs - it was what they called 'almond tea w/ egg whites'. It was nice and soothing and good. Gosh - I wish that Chinese food had nice romantic sound names - even when the food is good - the translations always sound like a science project.

Instead of hijacking Appreciator's chinese take out conversation - I thought I would revive this thread just to talk about Chinese food that people have had lately. I went to Sea Harbour restaurant on No.3 in Richmond. If you want to see how Kim Il Jung lives - go to this place. The exterior looks like a bunker and they have a security guard, patrolling the parking lot against break-ins. The signage is so ugly - it seems like a cruel prank. But when you get inside - it's like opening a present (a gag gift really). Apparently - the entire room's decor, dishes, and furniture was designed and made in China, boxed in a container, and shipped over to Richmond for assembly -and it shows. It's like Versace meets Night Market. The food though is very very good. Started with the homemade broth of the night - which was watercress with pork and conch meat. Sweet, clean, and clear - it was warming start to the meal. The dishes to share where a boneless pulled roasted chicken, steamed meat w/preserved vegatable served with mustard greens, and.... sweet and sour pork. Okay - it is impossible to translate Chinese food dishes without making them sound terrible - and I mean I think my english is not bad. The roasted chicken had a five spice powder flavor to it - really delicous. The steamed meat and veggie was very homestyle and perfectly executed. The sweet and sour pork was very very good - nice sharp sauce napping crisp pork that was a good mix of lean and fatty meat. Good - trust me! Total cost was $78 before tip. We did not eat alot of rice (even Asians are embracing low carbs) and there was not need as there was alot of food. Now they had lots of stuff on their menu that were really luxury items, goose liver, abalone, sharks fin soup - but I never really like that stuff for some reason. I sawy other tables having really plump and meaty dungeness crabs - this really is a good crab season. Dessert was a almond hot cream with coddled egg whites - again it was good - trust me! I can see why going to these kinds of places can seem intimating - I mean I needed my Aunt with me.

This is getting OT - but I would add two more cuisines to KT's list of disconnected cooking - Indian and Greek (I mean I cannot think of ONE Greek Restaurant in Vancouver that I like). Perhaps some cuisines don't translate well to restaurants. Availability of ingredients and a the culture's local attitude towards eating out I think also has an impact. For Chinese people (especially HK'ers) eating out is a very natural part of daily living - and restaurants that are able to best exemplify 'home cooking' are the most well received. My Indian friends, however, are adamant about the best food being home cooked food. My understanding is that Indian restaurant culture was not very developed due to caste concerns of who is in the kitchen What about Dario's? They seemed pretty relaxed and 'natural' about their Italian cooking. Are the closest to the real deal in terms of attitude and execution? I've heard from Italians friends that their food is pretty close to real Italian.

Just wanted to check in let everyone know about a quick jaunt I had at Lift. Andrew's latest article in the WE gave the jolt of remembering the experience. It was late at night on a Sunday and I had some friends in from LA. Not much was open, but we dropped by Lift to check it out. We ended on the upstairs deck which was not such a great idea - it was windy and the candles kept going out - and there does not seem to be alot of other lighting up there - so it was DARK. But the service staff (I wish I could remember the name of the Waiter) was absolutley fantastic. Did everything that they could to makes us comfortable and the service was prompt and friendly (without drifting into overly chummy or servile). Really was top notch. Will definitely check it out again. And not a cougar in sight - though I think I count as a dirty old man.

My brother and I caught some in the creeks in QE Park when we were kids - and my Dad ate when we put them in our acquarium. How's that for local knowledge?

You may not end up in the harbour... what will really get me suspicous if there is a notable improvement in their meat sauce.

Thanks for the review - based upon the taste of chocolate cake I got today - I may check out Mosaic for lunch soon. Is the cake available otherwise? I know that this is OT - but I wonder why more of the Hotel's don't have a bakery or deli - seems like a quick and easy way to sell more product. People costs may be the issue.

Sorry to be late to the party - also made the Red Cooked Pork Belly and it was very good. Very authentic - really tasted like what I remembered from my childhood. Only problem is I am wolfing down a tonne of pork belly with rice - which I am sure is not too healthy. The quick Chicken Braise with dried figs and olives was also a very good. Easy and rich - definitely needs egg noodles or something eat with it. Strong and complex flavors for very little effort. Great book. I will post pictures next time - I need to control myself before I dig into the braises.

Stay away from Cipriano's (on Main) - terrible service, non-descript food, and a room that looks like it has not been cleaned in years. Darke Dante's suggestion on Addesso is a really good one. Here are a couple of other suggestions off the top of my head: Cafe de Medici Arriva (whoever did the photography for their website should be shot).

Canuck is correct on this issue, as the man-made cool environment will suck those corks dry in a matter of months. That's why the old European cellars are all underground; consistent cool air and a moderate amount of moisture naturally treats the maturing bottles well. In a pinch, find a steady temp in the centre of your home (no outside wall), invite me over and we'll just keep drinking. ← Okay - OT here - but I can't help myself - but HA! I love it when I get these little bits of affirmation. Vindication!

I think that Whole Foods carries it too - but I am sure that the places mentioned up thread would probably be more price effective. When chocolate gets too dark - I always find that flavors don't blossom in my mouth (God - I sound like one of the women voice-overs on Japanese Iron Chef - something is always exlpoding in their mouths) - there needs to be something to carry the flavor to the pallette - otherwise super dark chocolate tastes just tastes powdery to me. For example - the Schaffenberger Bittersweet tastes fantastic to me - but their Dark Chocolate is seemed one note and crumbly. Please keep us informed on your tasting... So, keeping things OT - Whole Foods sells a variety of chocolate in large block form - you may want to check it out if you are near the North Shore.

Mashed potato and braised beef!? - that, sister, is food of the Gods. But I hear you on the cookie dough though - or any raw batter or dough. Yech - the taste or raw flour and eggs is absolutely disgusting - there is a reason that it needs to be cooked. I had a friend whose fond childhood memories included eating raw pasta dough as his mother made homemade pasta. Sounds quaint but I had a tough time trying to keep a straight face and not wretch.