JohnN

If you are going electric, you might want to consider an induction cooktop. Don't know about the F&P Dish drawer. You might check their web site as often mfgs post downloadable installation documentation. Regarding 240 vs 208, I think most appliances will tolerate the difference. Check with each mfg or mfg spec sheets for details. -john

We love our granite slab countertops. They look great and are sturdy and practical. In the end, my wife and I have a soft spot for natural materials. We did look at the manmade quartz products and they seem decent too. They look good and are probably more impervious to anything. But they cost about as much as the slab granite and we liked the look of the natural stone better and we figure the granite is going to hold up just fine. I tend not to like tile because of cleaning concerns with grout lines. I do hear they have some new grout that is waterproof which should help. But it still is a collection point for dirt and grime. Our last countertop was formica and it looked decent even tho it was 20 years old. Certainly is practical stuff. We have 3/4" oak flooring and we like it just fine. Holds up OK and looks good. I'm not sure what I would put into a kitchen if I was doing it from scratch, but the oak certainly wouldn't be a bad choice. Cork and bamboo both sound cool too. On the other hand, I don't like tiles on the floor, again due to cleaning concerns. I assume you mean wood isn't an option because the fir is too soft and you don't want to mix types of wood? Hmm. So I guess I don't have any suggestions for you on the floor. -john

I could see a diamond coated copper pan being useful. Basically the same idea as the stainless clad. And if you could coat one side, there wouldn't be any reason not to coat the whole thing. If it was a real diamond coating it should be very durable. You could even use a cast iron handles and coat them too. The resulting pan should be dishwasher safe. Pretty close to the perfect pan I would think. No idea if this is possible or if it would be cost effective tho. EDIT: Note, this doesn't appear to be what they are doing tho with this product. It looks like the point of their product is to sprinkle little diamonds around which create high points so that when you "scrape" it you contact the diamonds instead of the non-stick. Also probably makes a "rougher" surface to help hold the non-stick in place. The concept seems like it could be beneficial, but I suspect it only extends the life of the non-stick surface - not making it last forever. -john

I can see how someone might want this who cooked a lot of super-delicate fish or something like that, and wanted the ultimate in thermal charcteristics. But, man... I'd have to have a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket before I spent 170 bucks on a nonstick frypan which, because it is nonstick, has a finite useful lifespan. ← You know, that need not be the case if they offered a re-finishing service. -john

hum...a gift for your wife, you say? But then, she'll let YOU use it no??? ← Yah, well... Um.. [looks embarassed] -john

This kind of straight talk is why I like to give my business to Falk. Has there ever been any thought of offering a stainless cover as a lower-priced option? ← Sam, I have considered it in the past and don't remember why I didn't do anything about it. In fact, I talked with the owner of Demeyer about supplying me lids, but he wanted me to arder a minimum of 300 each, as I recall. I know some people at Vollrath, maybe I'll get in touch with them. It's a good idea... ← Michael, I think offering a stainless lid option would be great. But I do think it is importaint that whatever lid you offer be both high quality and aesthetic. Now if I could only get a 2.5MM copper clad pot with magnetic stainless... :-) [Edit: with a stainless or other dishwasher friendly handle. And, yes, I remember what Sam wrote about the cost of adding a SS handle. But I'd rather put the money into SS handle and a SS lid than spend money on a copper lid.] BTW, I received the 4.5 qt. sauciere on Friday (Fifi, isn't this the one you are looking at?). Haven't unwrapped it yet since it is a gift for my wife, but sure looks nice, even through the bubble wrap! Thanks! -john

Yah, that was kind of my impression and why I brought it back up (in regards to the plastic + dishwasher). I'm pretty sure that after going through the hot water cycle in the dishwasher, anything there would be dead. -john

I'm curious about the comments about plastic cutting boards not being safe. First, what do you mean by plastic? We use polyethylene cutting boards exclusively. We have several and take care to not use the same board for meats and veggies (or we cut the veggies first and then the meats). The boards always go in the dishwasher. I'm getting the impression that folks here are suggesting this isn't safe? I have a hard time understanding how anything is going to live through the (hot) dishwasher. Thanks, -john

A couple of thoughts: 1) While I agree with everyone's suggestion to plan it all out first and not jump into things, I'm not sure that it would be that easy to do it in pieces and end up with what you really want. If you really want a whole new kitchen, I think the best way is to just plan and implement a whole new kitchen. 2) If it turns out to be too difficult to run gas to where you want your stove, consider a induction cooktop. 3) I suspect if you go to the trouble of gutting the kitchen, cutting a trench for a gas line isn't going to be out of line. Strip down to the floor, cut two slices with a circular diamond saw, then attack the inside of your cuts with a rotary hammer drill or a small electric jackhammer. The only hard part will be where you get to the foundation. I'd try to expose the outside of the foundation and make some cuts with the circular saw and then finish up with the rotary hammer. Not fun, but it is probably only one-man day's worth of work. I did pretty much the same thing so I could put a door in our garage. It was hot and sweaty work, but and the end of the day I had my opening. In reality, the corners where you couldn't get the circular saw in there were the only real hard parts. Oh, and when it comes to rotary hammers, bigger *is* better. Some of us have to learn the hard way! :-) Total cost was less than $170. $70 for a diamond blade for my circular saw and less than $100 (can't remember exactly) to rent a rotary hammer from Home Depot and purchase a bit for the hammer. Don't forget the dust mask and glasses! -john

So you guys are saying next time I get some raw chicken on my countertop, just soap and water and don't sweat it? -john

After hanging out a bit on the forums mentioned in your other thread, which, ironically, was motivated by checking out the Shun knives, I'd say that the general consensus is that cutting bones with a Japanese knife like the Shun Classic is not recommended. This is mainly because they are 1) harder, and 2) have a more accute angle than most of the German chef's knives. This means they are both more brittle and have a thinner edge. HOWEVER, it is also the case that most people who try them find these shortcoming are outweighed with the advantages. Cuts easier, holds an edge longer, lighter, no bolster. I suspect most people do what I do. Keep one knife for this purpose. Currently I have a Henckels Four Star for this purpose (part of my original set) and at some point I'll replace it with a Messermeister Meridian Elite. -john

I'm curious if all the crys to avoid disinfecting your kitchen are overreacting much as the people who are obsessive about disinfecting? For example, why would it be bad to wipe things in the kitchen down with a disinfectent, say, once a week? Thoughts? -john

We used low voltage halogen lights for both task and ambiance lighting. We are very happy with the result. Our celing was a bit tricky because of the steep angle to the celing. We ended up using the Juno LV Adjustable Trim (87104). I really like the use of the MR16 type bubs because you have a LOT of flexibility in beam angle. For example, I've used a 9 degree spot before and it is still very tight, even when from the apex of the cathedral celing (basically two stories). And of course you can use different wattage lights, but we used dimmers most of our stuff anyway. We used some spiffy lighting from Sea Gull Lighting for ambiance lighting. I think it is their Ambiance LX Track product (sorry, I couldn't find any good pictures). It's pretty slick stuff. Basically a little plastic channel which you can cut and screw how you'd like, then you just "snap" in the copper wire into the channel. You can get various types of lamp assemblies that clip onto the track and tap the wire. The cool thing about it is it is very flexible and you can use various different types of light "fixtures", bulb types and wattages. For example, we used lampholders that accept little halogen "capsules". The whole affair is low profile. We then used 10 watt for under counter and 5 watt for over the cabinet ambiance. You can also vary the spacing. Stuff like the 5W bulbs are pretty low heat and could probably be installed pretty much anywhere, even if you don't have much clearance. It is hard to understand exactly what your situation is, so it is a bit hard to make suggestions that apply, but I wonder if it might be possible to box both the existing beam as well as creating a new false beam and use it to house recessed lights. Also, Junu makes track that is meant to be installed flush. It is possible you could box your existing beam just slightly, and then install the flush mount track and then paint it all the same color. This should desguise the track fairly well. -john

FWIW, I think convection is more intuitive. People can just think of it as baking. Since the Advantium uses radient cooking, this requires an adjustment in thinking. -john

This is an interesting item. While I haven't used mine enough to really determine if mine has this problem, it makes sense. Consider that the food is on a rotating carosel and that the oven pulses the lights on and off to get the correct heat. The light is offset, not across the whole width of the food. Depending on when/how much it pulses the light and the rotation of the food, you could end up always nuking the one side and never the other. Depending on how much % of light vs microwave, this could come into play more or less. For example, if the light was amost always on, this probably wouldn't happen. If you mostly cooked via micrwave, it probably wouldn't (but may not brown evenly). Interestingly, this could be solved via software if you take this into account. -john

You can use metal in it when you are NOT using the microwave function. The oven will remind you to use the microwave tray (white) or non-microwave tray (black). Basically if it uses the microwave at all you can't use metal. AFAIK, the physics don't allow for a metal friendly microwave. Although, my understanding is you can have metal as long as it is smaller than wave length of microwaves. So, you'll note that the tray holder is metal, but it has holes in it. -john

I've hesitated replying because I was hoping you'd get replies from people who use them more often than I do. When remodeling our kitchen, we purchased an Advantium instead of a normal microwave thinking in our small kitchen it would add extra versitility (we don't have room for an extra oven or anything like that). Basically it has two halogen radient elements (like the ones in glass top radient cooktops), one on top and one on the bottom. It can cook with a) radient top, b) radient bottom, c) microwave or any combination. It has pre-programmed recipes or you can control exact percenteges of each. It has a polished stainless interior. In our application we have it mounted over the cooktop and utilize the built in exaust fan which we configured to vent out the wall and over cooktop light. The fan can be a bit loud, but does work OK, but is not strong enough to pull fumes that are in front of the oven (as opposed to under it). The oven does seem to work as advertised. The gotcha for us is we tend not to use it often. Part of this is we forget about it and part of it is learning to cook in a different way. One other thing that is a bit of a pain is if you cook something like chicken that isn't covered, the grease splatters all over and then you have to clean it. I suppose this is the same for anything, but cleaning a big flat thing like a cooktop is easier than a little box. It has a fairly low celing, but it does pass my wife's viente latte cup test (a must). I think in the end, if you are willing to learn to cook a bit differently (or stick to things it has pre-programmed, of which there are a fair number), this can work out. On the other hand, if you aren't, it is going to end up just a very expensive microwave (but hey, the stainless interior is pretty cool! :-O ) -john

I would be absolutely mortified. I'd probably do beef tenerloin roast so I could rely on my thermometer and the food itself to attempt to obfuscate my lack of skill! -john

I never use sponges. They seem awfully unsanitary. They don't even seem that useful. What can they do that you can't do with a dishrag or dishtowel? Towels and rags go in the washing machine often. Although I have to admit I use the regular cycle, not the sanitary cycle that heats the water. I typically reserve that for serious biohazard jobs! I must admit I wipe down the counters about once a week (in addition to the normal soap and water wash downs) with the Clorox wipes (and handles and switches and knobs and faucet, etc.). Am I bad?! Cutting boards: Polypropylene boards, go into the dishwasher after every use. I do use those green scrubbies, but not often. They get stored in a little bowl where they dry out pretty quick and they get thrown away fairly often. Admittedly, I hadn't thought of putting them in the dishwasher. I might do that. For those asking about the Clorox wipes, I happen to have a container right here, so here are the active ingredients: n-Alkyl (C14, 60%; C16, 30%; C12, 5%; C15, 5%) Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride 0.145% n-Alkyl (C12, 68%; C14, 32%) Dimethyl Ethylbenzyl Ammonium Chloride 0.145% -john

Maybe you could post links to the cabinets styles you are considering? Perhaps something similar in a brand that could handle the weight could be found. Maybe a floorplan as well. I just keep thinking there has to be room for some standard size stuff in there somewhere! :-) -john

Congrats! Nothing says commitment like ordering $10K of appliances! :-) BTW, minor tip regarding the Bosch dishwasher. We have nearly the same model. One thing to watch out for is getting liquid dishwashing detergent on the plastic control bar. If you get some on there and it dries, it is a huge pain to get it off. I kept finding these fingerprints that were horrible to remove until I realized what was happening. I did find that the soft-scrub stuff for our glass cooktop works pretty well for getting it off, but I think it might actually take a bit of the finish off the plastic, so this isn't a good long term solution. The real solution of course is to... not do that. :-) -john

Sam, Thanks for your help. Your insight is greatly appreciated. And, I really do like the stainless exterior coating for us cleaning weenies (yes, read: dishwasher :-O ). If you wanted to thow out any names, I'd appreciate it. One other consideration I have is that I need something that fits in (or is larger than) my current hole. I haven't looked closely at the measurements to see how the induction would fit (hey, we just finished remodeling, I feel pretty goofy about already tearing the cooktop out!). We do have natural gas at the house so this is an option. Yah, I suppose. But I saw your comment about how these don't work well with non-induction stoves and from what I've heard, even the All-Clad stainless work pretty darn well with induction. It might be a bit before I get a new cooktop, but hey, pots and pans I can start collecting now! :-) -john

We finished our kitchen remodel in the first half of '04, and here are a few thoughts. When moving into our home about 10 years ago, we purchased a high end Kitchenaid dishwasher to replace the one that came with the house (and basically wouldn't clean dishes). This is one that lists for $900-$1000 and has a street price around $600. Something like their S Series in their current line, I suspect (also comes in hidden controls/stainless). It worked great and was quiet. No complaints, but we originally got white and we wanted stainless for our remodel. Upon remodeling, we picked a Bosch SHY99A05. I think we paid $1200-$1300. Perhaps you could get it for less, but my guess is Bosh isn't discounted as deeply. It is great and it is more quiet than the Kitchenaid and perhaps more energy efficent (hard to tell) but in all reality, when you consider we paid about twice as much, it certainly isn't twice as good. What's my point? The Kitchenaid was a great dishwasher and plenty good. It had a stainless interior (a must IMO) got stuff really clean and was pretty quiet. It also comes in stainless, panels and you can get hidden controls. The premium to get Miele, Bosch or Asko doesn't buy you a lot IMO. I'd consider Kitchenaid. FWIW, we replaced my mother-in-law's tired old dishwasher with the Kitchenaid we pulled from our kitchen and it keeps on doing a great job. Next up, fridge. While I understand the Subzero has the appeal, I'm not sure what it buys you in actual performance. Certainly, you have the issue of built in vs stand-alone (let's come back to that), but you want a fridge to be cold and have a decent layout and be quiet and reliable. I guess I miss what else there is or how much it matters. My wife didn't want to spring for the money for a built-in but I did. We had 36" for a fridge. We did want to get a counter depth fridge as our layout really didn't support a full-depth unit. In the end, I convinced her to get a built in (in this case a Freezer on bottom, Overlay) instead of the counter depth. In reality, we paid twice as much for the built in, and it was all about looks. The counter depth would have kept everything cold and all, but I really wanted a streamlined look. The compromise was that I couldn't go over-the-top on the price. W/o my wife to hold me back, I probably would have looked very seriously at the Northland fridges since you can get them with a stainless interior and glass shelves. Mmm, yummy. What's my point here? Well, I can understand wanting the built in, while I sure could'a been digging the stainless and glass interior, it wouldn't be a great return on investment. Microwave? Ditto the cost/benefit issue. Just get a decent one that looks decent. We got a pretty fancy one and to be honest, we don't use any of the fancy features. :-O Although do pay attention to interior size and wattage. You probably want something with at least 1000 watts. Ok, why am I pushing all this about saving money on the fridge and dishwasher and stuff? Well, because I think it would be better spent on the stove. I'd try to get the best stove you can since that is really the business end of the kitchen. To be honest, I goofed up here and didn't realize what a difference it makes. I purchased a good looking Jenn-Air glass top cooktop with radient burners. Looks great. I figured all this stuff about super hot burners and all was hype. And besides, the glass cooktop will be easy to clean, right? Well, the cleaning thing is complete nonsense since things get burned on like they were in a blast furnance. And, well, the burners really aren't as hot as I'd like (hey, I'm learning here!) - big pot of water takes quite a while to heat up and you have to be careful about heat retention while searing. On the upside, the control is pretty good. It isn't really bad, but I wish I would have done better. So in hindsight, I'd try to get a real good pro-sumer gas stove, or perhaps an induction stove. I'm real interested in the latter since you evidently get the heat and control, while, ironically, it also sounds like the cleanup is very easy because the surface of the top doesn't get hot (instead, your pan does) so the stuff doesn't get baked on. It sounds like some people even put a piece of newspaper down between the pot and the stove for really messy stuff! Downside? Cost (they are pretty expensive) and you need pots and pans with some ferrious metals like the All-Clad stainless. Countertops? We got granite, and yes, I know they are everwhere, but we like them and they are durable. I'd be afraid with soapstone to chip our gouge them. Concrete would be cool IMO (certainly a no-go with my wife tho!). Stainless would be OK (also a no-go with wife), but perhaps a bit cold*. The Stilestone stuff (crushed quartz in resin or something like it) would be more durable than natural stone and look decent, but it looks like it costs just as much as natural stone. Tile looks decent, but I'd be worried about keeping the grout lines clean. I did notice that there are some new grouts or grout additives that make the grout waterproof which I'd look into if I went this route. Laminate is darn functional and inexpensive, although I have to admit it would be near the bottom of my list. We went with a 18ga stainless dual, same-size, bowl undermount sink from Franke. I really wanted to get two large single sinks and put them together because I like really large bowls, but we just didn't have the space. The unit we got has nice, deep bowls and provides more room in every direction than our old one while still sitting in the same footprint as the old sink (which was small and very shallow!). If you go stainless you want the heavier 18ga with a sound deadening coating on the bottom. I think cork flooring would be cool. You could probably also do some cool things with concrete, esp. if you did concrete countertops. Pergo is fairly cheap and looks decent and is durable. Don't forget lighting. Lighting can make a dramatic change in a kitchen, and can be awfully practical as well! We put in a bunch of low voltage halogen cans in our kitchen and halogen under-counter lights and are really glad we overhauled the lighting. Also, we have a pretty small kitchen as well (although not as small as you are talking) and we did manage to make things feel much better by just honing it. Pushed the cabinets out a couple of inches, switched to a larger, bow window (no actual, usable space added, but it feels more open), made the entryway a few inches larger, didn't wrap the cabinets all the way around, etc. Little tweaks, but it feels much more open and less cramped. We also made sure the new cabinets all had full extension pulls, pullout shelves, etc. All this helps make the space more usable. FYI, here is a FAQ for commercial ranges in home kitchens. -john * Perhaps this isn't as much of a factor in a contemporary style, but you might want to consider the balance of the materials. Originally we were thinking of getting the fridge in stainless. Later, we changed our minds and did a wood overlay and we are really glad. I think that big hunk of stainless (plus the other stainless items), plus the granite coutnertops and the tile backsplash and the windows would have overpowered the wood in the cabinets. We also added a window treatment to help soften things a bit. More induction threads: induction cook tops AEG 4 burner Induction cooktop Induction versus Blue Star comparison test

I suspect this style is esp. tricky to get right and if it was unusual custom wood, I wonder if they let it season enough. My guess is this stuff needed to sit around for a couple of months and it is hard to imagine a shop doing that for wood they don't use often. Certainly, if even the drawer fronts warped, I would tend to think this supports my suspision. Unless the drawers were HUGE, this shouldn't happen (IMO). Isn't cypress similar to poplar? I think the less dense woods are all much more prone to warpage. -john