philadining

Yet more proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy: Yes, you read that right, Kimberton Gelato. That's a regular, with cappuccino and bittersweet chocolate, $3.75 I think... OK, it's not Capogiro, it's not even especially great gelato, but it's solidly good gelato, which is to say WAY better than most of the frozen desserts on offer around here. I'm psyched.

When you have one of those days when a big old tree falls over on the power lines and really messes up your day, sometimes you just have to go to lunch. And as the old saying goes: when life hands you lemons, make tostadas! Or have somebody make some for you. Or something like that. It was big and fresh, and crispy and tasty. And totally freaking messy. I have no idea how one eats a tostada without spraying it all over the room. When I finished it, it occurred to me that there were two more!! $5.75 for three huge, loaded tostadas. Great Lunch. And after lunch, no, the power was not back on...

careful, you don't want to give yourself away as a tourist (I don't think the camera crew will draw any suspicion... ) watch the terminology: I'm thinking back to the local lingo I hear around Philly and I don't think we don't put our meats on buns around here, I think we use rolls! I could be wrong about this, but discussing "buns" for cheesesteaks or hoagies just doesn't sound right. I've got a friend who grew up here who occasionally proposes getting "coffee and a bun" rather than a full breakfast, and it's always seemed like an odd phrase. I've always taken his use of "bun" to mean something like a cinnamon bun, or some sort of sweet thing like that, not a simple bread roll. The precise definitions and distinctions are still a little hazy, at least to me, but I suspect that if you ask a cheesesteak guy "who bakes your buns?" you're going to get smacked with a greasy spatula. But, yes, we've got some rocking good stuff served on great rolls around here...

And the winner is????

I know I'm coming to this a little late, I'm sure you've been getting good guidance from Holly and Katie et al. But Andrew's questions in the Philly forum got me thinking: I know you want to visit places that aren't the obvious choices, but even so, i think you might be on the wrong track to try to get dim sum, or German food, or deli or barbecue... Yeah, there are acceptable versions of that stuff, but they're not going to be the exciting finds you'd like to feature. I suspect you might want to focus on either non-touristy manifestations of things uniquely Philly (the hoagie, the Roast Pork sandwich, the surf-and-turf hot dog, etc) or some odd spots that just happen to exist here, and are unusual enough to be interesting (like our Burmese restaurant called Rangoon, or a tiny Indonesian place in deepest Italian South Philly called Hardena, or The Irish Coffee Shop in Upper Darby, where one can get huge, cheap, traditional Irish breakfasts all day - and the twist - the owner/cook is not Irish, he's Mexican. www.irishcoffeeshop.com) I think that could be an amusing conceit: to set-up how Philly is famous for the cheesesteak, but don't get one of those, get a pork sandwich instead. Go down into the Italian neighborhood and eat Indonesian food. Chow down on an Ulster fry, served by a waitress with an authentic Irish brogue then go meet the cook named Raphael. Pass all the roast ducks and dumplings in Chinatown and eat ginger salad and Thousand-layer bread at Rangoon. On the slightly more conventional end, there's all kinds of good, hearty, homey Italian food to be had, and plenty of the places are off the beaten track, out-of-towners would never find them. We've got great gastropubs in neighborhoods unsullied by tourists. We've got little BYOB restaurants that are great bargains, and serve interesting food. Sure, you could find an OK deli, and your viewers will think that they've seen better sandwiches than that.... You could get German food, and everyone in the midwest will just shake their heads at the slim pickings... You could get good dumplings, but the SanFransicans will think "eh"... You could get some good barbecue, but all of the south will be unimpressed... What's especially good, and unique, in Philly is: The Roast Pork Italian sandwich, with broccoli rabe and sharp provolone. Eat one and you forget all about cheesesteaks. Go to DiNic's or Tony Luke's. A Real Philly Hoagie, from Sarcones, or Primo's, or anyplace near the top of Holly's list, featuring amazing bread, excellent cold cuts, lettuce-tomatoes-peppers-spices, and some good oil. It really is different from a sub sandwich. Homey Italian food (not exactly unique, but as ubiquitous and well-developed here as in any city... ) Burmese food. Not that there's a big Burmese community here, but there's a very good restaurant. There's one in DC, one in San Francisco, one in NY, so you could do this in those cities, but I can't vouch for those restaurants. I CAN say that Rangoon in Philly is really good! Irish. There are lots of Irish people in Philly, new arrivals as well as established communities. Sure, there are probably more Irish in Boston, but do they have a coffee shop serving outrageously good breakfasts cooked by a Mexican guy? Gastropubs. The Standard Tap is the best example. BYOBs: I suspect this isn't the style of food you're focusing on, but it's a very Philly-centric phenomenon, much of the most exciting cooking has been happening in these small, fairly inexpensive places, almost always run by husband-and-wife duos. The surf-and-turf dog is just weird. Which is probably a good reason to do it! The Indonesian place is just unexpected enough to be interesting. You could get a similar effect by panning from the famous cheesesteak corner with Pat's and Genos over to the Vietnamese Bahn Mi stand next door, or the Taqueria next door to that, or up one block for some Lebanese grilled Falafel. Not so far off the beaten path, but not where the tourists think to go. This is a very long-winded way to say that I just think it would be very anticlimactic to eat dim sum, deli, barbecue, or German food here. There are more unusual, yet typical, places to go. Hope that helps...

That actually would be pretty funny, to document the legendary Philly addytude: that special mix of lack-of-interest and hostility that grows so well in this soil!

I don't think any of these places would be exciting enough to put in a TV show...

Lakeside serves my favorite Dim Sum in Philly, but it's not really the traditional Dim-Sum experience, it's just a small, plain, bordering on dingy, restaurant where one orders from a menu, not a huge, festive place with carts. Sadly the dim sum scene here is just nowhere near the level of San Francisco, Toronto, Vancouver, or NY. As for Dwight's, I've never been, but it never gets mentioned when people list their favorites, at least not among the eG crowd. Sweet Lucy's seems to hold the crown for now. Hymie's has a devoted following, but it's out in the burbs, and more of a neighborhood place, I don't know of people making long pilgrimages to go there. In fact you'll probably find folks that would argue that the nearby Murray's is better. I've never loved either of them. As with the dim sum scene, the deli culture is not huge here, there are some decent ones, but nobody's working at the same level as places in NY. That said, I'm currently fond of Famous Deli at 4th and Bainbridge. But it's not a slam-dunk that everybody agrees on one place... The Old Brauhaus is a similar situation, there's almost no German food to be had in Philly. There's one place downtown, and this one well out in Northeast Philly, which is fairly remote from the center of Philadelphia. So it might be the best, but that's not saying much! But I've never been there, so it could be great food for all I know. I've never heard anyone rave about it... Sorry to equivocate about all of these. Of course there will be arguments about "the best" of anything, but I wouldn't say that any of the places you listed would be likely to come up reliably at the top of many people's lists, with the possible exception of Lakeside, and even that is not a hugely popular place.

Evan, I think you might have been misled by that big crystal pyramid of Dasani bottles out front, and the enigmatic smile of that girl Mona at the cheese counter. It's a great store, but...

That seems about right: I ate at Chowki in mid-May, and liked it quite a lot. It's not a destination restaurant by any means, but as mentioned, if you're stuck in that neighborhood and hungry, it's simple, inexpensive, but certainly more upscale than a basic curry house.

Endy' thanks for the report, I'm glad to know you had a good meal there too. I hope you'll excuse my presumption, but I was so curious about how your food compared to my recdent meal there (not exactly the same, but pretty similar!) that I did some tweaking on your photos just so I could see them better. After doing so, I thought perhaps others might find it informative as well, so I've quoted your post, and just substituted the pics that I brightened-up a bit... You know, it never occurred to me to order another round of the foie, that was indeed pretty spectacular. Thanks again for the post, makes me want to go back!

Yowza! That looked great, Percy. I'd drop by just for the sorbets!

I wonder if this needs to spin off into a new thread? It's now just "China Bistro" no Tifco anywhere anymore, and it does seem to be a completely new operation. Anyway, missed lunch today, so feasted a bit at dinner. Peking Dumplings were fresh, and clearly homemade. Sadly they were also kind of heavy and gummy. They tasted OK, but the texture was just kind of sticky. Didn't love them. Double Cooked Pork was almost exactly as it was under the old regime, which is to say, pretty freaking delicious. It's slices of fatty pork belly, with leeks, ginger, fresh chile peppers and hot pepper flakes. It wasn't super spicy, but it sure tasted good. Sichuan Style String Beans were cooked a little more than I usually like, but they were still pretty good, dry-fried with sweet caramelized onion and a bit of ground pork. They don't have nearly as many of the Sichuan dishes as before, and the 20-some that remain did not include some of my old favorites. But there's still some interesting stuff to be had, it hasn't reverted to suburban Americanized Chinese. A few other dishes that went by looked and smelled great. (I swear I smelled the Lamb with Cumin, although I don't see it on the menu...) Service was very friendly and helpful, but still amazingly ragged. Someone came to take my order right after I had given it to someone else. However a couple that was seated shortly after I was got up and left without ordering because no one had acknowledged them for quite some time after being seated. My string beans were AWOL until I asked a manager about them, I got some moments later, but I suspect from observing an exchange with a waitress that I got somebody else's, and they got the next batch. But the good news is that I was able to voice that concern because a manager came around a few times asking if everything was OK. My waiter was pleasant, just looked frazzled, even though it wasn't busy. It took a LONG time to get my check picked up, even though there wasn't all that much going on. Just to make things appropriately weird, for some unknown reason, a few Johnny Cash songs were playing over and over, the whole time I was there. At first it was kind of funny, as I heard "I Walk the Line" the 7th or 8th time, it started feeling surreal. "Ring of Fire" rolled around an equal number of times, and that one seems more appropriate for a place with Sichuan food... Anyway, I think the food is not quite as good as it used to be, but it's still WAY better than most Chinese outside of Chinatown, and a good percentage of the places IN Chinatown. I'll be trying a few more things on the Sichuan part of the menu...

Seoul Garden is actually on West Henrietta Road, not far from Jefferson Rd: Seoul Garden 2805 W Henrietta Rd Phone: (585) 424-2220 And yes, I agree that it's quite good, the barbeque and Hay-Mul Pajun in particular. I also like Song's which is not far away, in the Regional Market off of Jefferson Road, I think it's officially 900 Jefferson Road if you're mapquesting it... 585-475-9810 They have a relatively limited menu, but everything I've had there has been really good. They specialize in rice cakes, so be sure to get something featuring those noodle-ish cakes.

From Table Talk They say the wine list is "coming together."If I had walked by it, I'd probably have done what you did, V, so, thanks for taking the bullet.

No worries, you can still get the beans instead of the mac salad. For this context they always seem a little too, you know, organic, to me, like an actual foodstuff with some sort of nutritional value. And as for the "gentrified neighborhood" uhh... this kind of says it all!

I know, that always amused me as well, just in case the huge heaps of home fries, and mac salad left you craving carbs - have some bread!! Oddly, the bread is actually kinda good...

Got that right! better with Fries, or Onion Rings, and a frosty mug of Root Beer And yes, it does kind of seem like it's 1957 in Tom Wahl's in Avon, except that they have WIFI.

Believe it or not, the one on the right does have two cheeseburgers on top, they're just under the mustard and hotsauce and onions... The sharp-eyed, and steady-stomached might find the burgers on this angle... That about sums it up... part of the charm, all gone now that the original location closes early. But if you're going to have a Garbage Plate, I say you go to the spot where they started, and if you happen to meet some folks you normally wouldn't, well, such is the journey of life!

sisofdiva2, thanks for the Dano's report, it is a bit far from Rochester, but I had it on my list during this last visit, just ran out of time. So I think it might be of interest to people browsing the Rochester thread. There's a finger lakes dining thread too, could be worth reposting there. I get a good amount of excellent Chinese in Philly, and on visits to NY and San Francisco, so I'm a little snobby about it myself, but I'm always pleasantly surprised how good Chen Garden is. They have a fair amount of the popular, unchallenging, crowd-pleasers, they'd be silly not too, but dig around a bit, there's good stuff there behind the cliche suburban Chinese. They have some good entrees with minced beef, or chicken, or chicken and scallops, on top of this scallion pancake. But I'd had that recently, and still needed an infusion of crunchy oil... I never order fried rice anywhere else, but this Yung Chow Fried Rice is rocking good, mostly because of the chunks of chinese sausage which give it a sweet, smoky edge, along with the roast pork and shrimp. Twice-Cooked Porkwas good, but not as decadently fatty as I'm used to getting... good sauce though. Lemon Chicken was a little too batter-y for my taste, but it was good for what it was: deep fried to a nice crunch, but not oily, with an intense lemon sauce. The person who ordered it loved it. Hunan Beef and Scallops doesn't look all that special, but it's got a deliciously tangy, slightly spicy sauce, over the deep-fried, but not thickly-battered ingredients. I suspect they're simply dusted with corrnstarch and fried, giving them a a nice crisp coating, while remaining moist inside. Other faves we didn't happen to order that day are: almost any of the duck dishes, especially the sliced duck with ginger and scallions; also there's a steamed chicken with baby bok choy and a spicy bean paste that's excellent. The clay pot casseroles are really good. I've liked all of the noodle dishes I've gotten too. Chen Garden 1750 Monroe Ave, Brighton (585) 241-3070 It's odd, I can find no indication of an address or telephone number on this site, but it looks like their menu, so I'm pretty confident this is their website: www.chen-garden.com/

Wandering through the steamy city on sunday was wilting us pretty effectively, until we passed Alma de Cuba, and mojitos suddenly sounded crucial. Their "classico" is one of my favorite renditions of that drink, with some bitters to back-off the sweetness. Hit the spot. DDP tried both of their sangrias, and while they were good, neither held a candle to Amada's. And as so often happens while sitting at the bar, we could resist getting a few appetizers... Cockles were steamed in a vibrant, garlicky rum sauce, sweet with roasted corn, balances with tangy roasted tomatoes. DDP found it a bit too intense, but I loved it. Oxtail empanadas had a very tasty filling of flavorful beef mixed with cabrales, inside an OK pastry. The whole package worked pretty well, despite the blah dough. Ham croquettes were really good, with a creamy, cheesy, salty filling inside a fresh, crunchy crust. I have to give the edge to the version at Amada, but these were enjoyable nonetheless. Oysters Rodriguez were outrageously good. Light, tender fried oysters were set atop a combination of spinach and cheese, and returned to their shells. These had great texture and flavor. All in all, we liked all the food, enjoyed the drinks, made for a nice stop on a summer afternoon. Oh, then the check came. We knew what everything cost, so we were aware of what were were getting into, but it was still somehow a little surprising to see a bill for a bit over $80 before tip! That was three drinks, and 4 generous appetizers (4 large oysters, 6 croquettes, one big empanada, countless tiny cockles - maybe 30?) Everything was quite tasty, and we'll probably do it again (our best meals there have been assembled from piles of apps at the bar) but, ouch!

I think reports of Los Mariachis' demise might be premature... The new menu is not missing much from before, and at least tonight, the clientele was still largely from south of the border. I got the carnitas platter: It was a little heavier on the crispy outer parts of the roast pork than other times, but I don't really see that as a problem! The pile of guac was replaced by a few big slices of fresh avocado, along with some nice, fresh lettuce and tomatoes. Beans and rice were good. This dish wasn't supposed to be spicy, so I can't comment on whether they've toned things down. And handmc's experience with things being dry and seemingly left-over is unfortunate, it certainly shouldn't happen, but at 4:30 in the afternoon... yep, you probably got lunch leftovers... but what got wasn't all dried out. It's certainly not the apex of Mexican food in the area, but most of what I've gotten has been really good. I don't think I'd drive great distances for it, but I'm glad it's in my neighborhood.

Thanks Holly. Should we alert the appropriate embassies, just in case?

Am I right that Carman is away for a few weeks? Do we know when she gets back?

Good to hear about El Rincon (and hey, we're finally getting some good Mexican in Philly!!) In addition to the stuff listed above, I always find Chen Garden to be solid Chinese food (1750 Monroe Ave in Brighton). There's a good little Korean place in the Regional Market off Jefferson Road in Henrietta, great rice cake stews, Mandoo, even good Kalbi and Bulgogi, but they cook it in the kitchen. They've moved to a bigger place nearby since I was there, but I still hear good things. I think the name is Song's. It's the Korean place in the Regional Market... hard to miss. I just got a nice corned beef sandwich from Fox's Deli, although the rye bread has gotten annoyingly squishy lately... and they're only open for, like, 15 minutes a day now it seems. (OK, maybe more than that, but just 11-3 or something?) I still like the Dinosaur for barbecue. Gordon says Dog Town Hots is making a good hot dog: Monroe, at about Oxford? I'd love to hear more too, so please report back.