philadining

Yep, awesome risotto with delicate, fresh-tasting crab, but as David said, I can only take credit for banging it down, not banging it out... But how is that pasteurized stuff you can get in containers at supermarkets, or even in a can at Trader Joes? Of course fresh is better, but how useable is that packaged stuff for something like a crabcake, or scattered in a sauce? (And no, I'm not suggesting a tasting.)

Ansill.

Yo V, G. Liddy, do I detect a butter tasting on the horizon?

Oh, and BTW, I think we've actually had the name wrong here all along... if you're looking for it somewhere that the exact spelling actually matters, it's really Cantina Los Caballitos

Blogalicious says we should believe the hype, and ignore this nasty rant here... But for specifics he only barely describes the duck Bolognese, merely mentions in passing the smoked potatoes and a coconut sorbet, raves about the chocolate terrine, and makes a vague reference to the cheese course. It's not really a comprehensive survey of the menu. So based on just that, I'm not sure I completely trust his prediction that "James is poised to become one of the best new spots this year," but he clearly approves. I look forward to more reports.

bumping this pre-Valentine's Day. Karen Heller wrote an article about romantic restaurants in Philly, in the Inky. She mentions Vetri, L'Angolo, Pumpkin, Siam Lotus, Vietnam, Beau Monde, Tangerine, Alma de Cuba, Amada, Waterworks (table 42 in particular), Friday Saturday Sunday, and Standard Tap. Thoughts? Additions?

Huancaino sauce. Nope, I don't know what it is either... I vaguely recall it being creamy-cheesey, but I didn't really think the empanadas even needed the sauce. The salad in the middle was good though.

Katie and I hit the Cantina the other night, and had a really nice time. Drinks, as usual, quite tasty, and the food was really good as well. Pork Picadillo Empanadas I really loved the original chicken empanadas that the original chef made, and I might still prefer those by a little, but these are not a bad consolation at all. In fact I'm definitely getting them again next time... Costillitas I'm not sure these struck me as especially Mexican tasting, the tamarind glaze and pineapple salsa suggested Asia just as readily, but who cares if they're good? And they were. Rib purists might be horrified that the meat was falling off the bone, but it didn't bother me at all, the meat was nice and tender, and the sauce and accompaniments complimented it beautifully. Mahi Tacos Juicy grilled Mahi Mahi with cilantro and onions on soft tortillas. Simple, excellent.

I think this is an interesting point, I haven't had enough purely grass-fed beef to consider myself an authority on it, but what I have had led me to believe that it tended to be more intensely flavored, but leaner, less-marbled, and in general, chewier. Could be worth putting in the mix whenever we get back around to beef!

That was hilarious. We've been debating whether it was a low-blow, in that the restaurant doesn't really have control over the river, and theoretically a rat could run from the sidewalk into any restaurant in town. But if a river rat was patrolling around my table, it would creep me out, and you can be sure I'd tell people about it, so I think I agree with LaBan's decision to mention it. And part of the point of the story was the restaurant's blasé attitude about it... But I'm sure a mention in a major review would tend to light a fire under management to fix something like this!

I think that without the head-to-head comparison, most of these steaks would be at least OK for an ordinary steak dinner at home. As Shacke and others have mentioned, both the flavor and texture of some of them left something to be desired, but I'm not sure if any of them were outright unpleasant. That said, I didn't bother to finish my smallish-samples of the Och's, or the Whole Foods, or the Well's Choice, they just didn't have much flavor, or a great mouthfeel. Then again, if I'm making a steak in a pan at home, I'll put a hard crust on it, and do a sauce, and in that context, these might have been acceptable, if not thrilling, if one could distract attention from the baseline meatiness. And I left some of the Esposito's sample because it was getting to be a bit much for me. It was seeming increasingly weird to my palate as time went on. But obviously, others liked that aspect. But I think there'd be something to be said for trying a head-to-head of only steaks readily available at retail locally, just to find the best of what's practical, and less than $100 per steak!

this is a totally valid point, but we were up against a conundrum: the classic ultimate steak experience is a porterhouse from Lobel's or Luger's, so we wanted to try that. But locally, most places that supplied dry-aged meat all all, only offered strip steaks. For a more even test, we probably should have cut the strips off the porterhouses and cooked them separately, but it would have been heartbreaking! This is irresponsible conjecture, but I think the Lobel's and Luger's steaks were so far out in front that I doubt that the cooking bone-in was significant. But I'm sure it didn't hurt either.... Indeed the variations were interesting, including the suspicion we had that the steak sold to us as dry-aged from Whole Foods might not have been aged at all. And the somewhat clumsy treatment of the DiBruno's steak was interesting: we got a ribeye instead of a strip, and it was not trimmed as one would trim an aged steak... The Wolf's Neck was really an outlier, not properly part of the comparison, but rather just a very fine piece of beef that V stumbled across on his travels. I'm glad that we had it in there because in comparison to the other steaks, it was an interesting contrast. But it's a little bit apples-and-oranges: a different cut, indeed I think wet-aged, and even treated to a little bit of oilive-oil marination in the vacu-pack for the sake of avoiding drying out. But many ranked it higher than the Luger's as a steak experience, as a piece of beef on a plate.

I think this is an excellent question, and we should certainly post the per pound prices, and just to scare the crap out of people, the total price of the Lobel's and Luger's....

That did look a little weird didn't it? No, it didn't rest that way, it was about to be sliced and portioned for the test, and was up on end to make cutting off the bone easier, and I just snapped the pic as it was, to avoid touching it. A couple of quick thoughts: while a test like this isn't going to be perfect, I think we did fairly effectively answer a couple of questions. 1) dagordon's original question about whether one can get a serious world-class steak at a retail shop in Philly? Sadly, the answer seems to be no. 2) the resulting question: is there really that big of a difference between what we can actually get at retail here, and some of the legendary purveyors, like Lobels? I think it's safe to say that our panel says there is. The Lobel's steak, unidentified on our plates (we did not know which chunks of meat were from where as we were tasting them,) was unanimously agreed to be the best piece of meat of the test, and pretty far out in front. 3) the cascading question from that conclusion: OK it's better, but is it worth the money? I don't think there's ever going to be an absolute answer for that, value is a very personal concept. The Lobel's steak was clearly superior. It was also crazy expensive. The Luger steak was quite good too, usually ranking #2 or 3 in people's assessments, but it was also very expensive. 4) can you do justice to a superior piece of meat without the 18-bazillion degree broilers they have at steakhouses? The answer seems to be yes: proper cooking in a black steel pan develops an excellent crust, proper resting evens-out doneness and redistributes juices. The only problem on might have is ventilation: that initial sear does create some smoke. 5) what we will now refer to as the mrbigjas conundrum: I want a steak TONIGHT!!! What do I do? I'm not sure we came up with an answer to that. There are a couple of intangibles - the Whole Foods steak was extremely disappointing, not appearing to be dry-aged at all, and displaying almost no marbling whatsoever. dagordon says he's gotten better steaks than that at Whole Foods, so perhaps that wasn't a good sample. But the purchaser went in and asked for the best dry-aged strip steak, in fact asked for a special cut because the ones in the case were too thin, and that's what he got. This is what Whole Foods sold us that day. Side-by-side with the other steaks, this one tasted watery, blah, rubbery, nothingy. The same thing is true for Harry Och's, the purchaser asked for a custom-cut dry-aged porterhouse, and what we got was rather sad. Of course there's some possibility that on another day, either of those places could offer a better piece of meat. But on this random day, they didn't represent too well. Side-by-side, in this blind tasting, we all seemed to agree that this steak just wasn't very good - not much flavor, mealy texture, gristley. Esposito's is a retail operation, and it's very possible that one could do the same as our purchaser did - walk in and ask for a cut from a dry-aged primal they have hanging in back. I don't know if they generally have minimums or if it's always available. Next time someone's down there, ask! That said, while I trust V's opinion that that particular steak would be good with a sauce or other accompaniments, as we tasted it plain, I found it initially intriguing, then a little odd, then downright unpleasant. Others liked it a lot. It had a very strong aged taste, what we all seemed to agree could be described as a "cheesey funk." I think it comes down to personal preference here - I think a little of that vibe would be nice as an accent, but found this particular expression of those flavors to be too much. The Well's Angus was extremely good, and one has to wonder why there's no retail operation selling this meat. Maybe there's really not enough of it to go around, and restaurants are getting first crack at it. But the free-market would seem to imply that someone might be willing to overcharge us civilians for a few of those steaks. I think I'd be willing to overpay from time to time if I could walk-up and buy one today, without having to plan my steak eating days in advance. As implied above, a place like DiBrunos really ought to look into something like that. The steak we sampled from their meat department wasn't that bad, but wasn't great either, and didn't stand up very well to the other samples in this test. (oh, and as dagordon pointed out, wasn't actually the cut of meat that was requested!) 6) After overindulging on huge piles of meat, what's the best thing in the world to eat? ....the answer, my friends, is papas fritas. Oh, and a classic frisée salad ain't bad either. A couple of other random thoughts: the Lobel's and Luger's steaks were my favorites, displaying a flavor and texture superior to the other samples. But I was surprised how much it did come down to texture, which I can assume is correlated somewhat to marbling, and probably to the aging too. And the flavors were very sophisticated, far more interesting than the one-dimensional (or zero-dimensional) taste of the others, but they weren't funky or gamey or even overtly mineraly as I had been expecting. For better or worse, I'm sure there's variation here too, perhaps another sample would be different, displaying more or less of those traits. And you know how you thought you were bored by filet mignon, that it was just this soft, flavorless piece of meat? Try the filet part of a Lobel's porterhouse. Yowza. I'm sure there's more to explore here, and perhaps we should take another run at the local issue. Maybe we try again with Whole Foods, add Wegman's, some other local sources and see what's best that IS available at local retail.

(left to right) 1. DiBrunos Dry Aged (Strip) Rib Eye; 2. Wells CAB (Black Angus); 3. Wells Dry Aged Choice 4. Esposito 21day Dry Aged Strip; 5. Harry Ochs Dry Aged Porterhouse 6. Whole Foods (Dry Aged) Strip; 7. Wolfe Neck Rib Eye 8. Peter Luger’s Dry Aged Porterhouse; 9. Lobels 6w Dry Aged Porterhouse Steaks were all cooked the same way: Halen-Mon Salt, Leblanc Grapeseed Oil Black Carbon Steel French Pans. Cooked: 1. DiBrunos Dry Aged (Strip) Rib Eye 2. Wells CAB (Black Angus) 3. Wells Dry Aged Choice 4. Esposito 21day Dry Aged Strip 5. Harry Ochs Dry Aged Porterhouse 6. Whole Foods (Dry Aged) Str 7. Wolfe Neck Rib Eye 8. Peter Luger’s Dry Aged Porterhouse 9. Lobels 6w Dry Aged Porterhouse French fries to cleanse the palate (not really, we just ate them afterwards....) bacon and eggs for dessert. comments to follow.

Victor, yes, get some wings with a beer while you're there (sorry, no specific recommendations) but the thing you REALLY want to eat is Beef on Weck . Charlie the Butcher seems to be a popular source. ETA: I just got a confirmation from someone who was working in Buffalo much of this summer - he agrees that Duff's is the spot for wings, and that the Beef on Weck rocks at the original Charlie the Butcher location (Wehrle Drive in Williamsville.)

double post...

I'm not feeling especially confident of my vocabulary either, but I'll post the spontaneous reactions I had at the time, some of which seem pretty silly, like "oily," or cliché like "grassy," or obvious, like "olivey." I'll agree with the other tasters that I expected that any collection of oils would have a much wider diversity of flavors, but while these each had distinctive characteristics, they weren't so far apart that switching one for another would necessarily ruin a dish. Another observation that surprised me: the smell and taste often didn't correlate, in fact I felt the aromas DID have a pretty wide range. But I'm not sure how much that aroma plays into one's experience of the oil once it's in food, unless it's a pretty major component, splashed onto hot food at the last minute. I don't think we were systematic enough to say authoritatively whether certain of these oils really shined on cold dishes as opposed to hot, although we ate a few of each. Just for the heck of it, I'll do the math for you and crunch V's numbers into a per liter price. aroma notes are from the amplifier snifters, flavor notes from tasting each alone, unaccompanied. 1.Dibruno Frutatto $26.65/liter aroma: sharp, green, dusty flavor: VERY grasy, bitter, late pepper 2.Marques De Valdueza $49.98/liter fruity, smooth flavor: big, round, smooth 3.Le Moulins Mahjoub $35.11/liter aroma: melons flavor: bitter, immediate peppery heat 4.Novello / Marc Vetri $43.99/liter aroma: nothing flavor: "oily", hot peppery 5.Carm 29.98/liter aroma: nothing flavor: buttery, luxurious, delayed pepper 6.Yellingbo $49.98/liter aroma: magic markers flavor: nutty, slight chemical overtone 7.Frantoia $35.98/liter aroma: grass and autumn leaves flavor: smooth, peppery, dry 8.Aguibal Manzanilla $33.98/liter aroma: huge, peppery, olives flavor: very olivey and ripe 9.Aguibal Arbequina $33.98/liter aroma: big, but not as big as the Manzanilla flavor: mannered, flowery 10.Becchina Olio Verde $79.98/liter aroma: grassy, flat flavor: Bitter, peppery, harsh 11.Armando Manni Per Me $260/liter! aroma: not much flavor: balanced, even, smooth 12.Armando Manni Per Me Figlio $260/liter aroma: ethereal, slight camphor, medicine flavor: lightly peppery, edgy 13.Planeta.....................? no aroma note flavor: THICK, big, mouth-coating. I was getting a little dizzy trying to sort out which oils did what with which dishes, but the oils certainly did have a huge effect on the food, often mellowing and merging flavors in a dramatic way. A few of the oils that tasted odd, or even unpleasant on their own were quite nice on food (I'm thinking of the Mahjoub especially - it seemed quite harsh to me on its own, but really distinctive and complimentary on food.) All of these oils were good in some ways, but I was pleasantly surprised by a few things. The Aguibal Oils, which are pretty easy to find, and not savagely expensive, stood up very well in the comparisons, and were in fact quite distinctive and interesting, at least to my palate. The Manni Oils were quite delicious, but not so dramatically more delicate or luxurious, so I can resist going through the hassle of obtaining them, and spending $260 per liter on them! They're quite nice, but not THAT nice... The Moulins Mahjoub is probably a little edgy for just dipping bread in, but would be a really good distinctive addition to a dish that could use a little bite. The Carm is pretty awesome for evening-out and rounding out flavors and adding a luxurious mouth feel. The Planeta is so thick you could probably use it as engine oil in a pinch, but it's very tasty, so I wouldn't recommend that! The whole experiment was very interesting, and I look forward to doing some more exploring. I think a smaller number of oils might be good, and maybe some deliberately distinct styles too. But I wouldn't be reluctant to buy any of these oils for my home use, perhaps referring to my notes for some clues about which one to use when. And I might wait on the Manni until I win the lottery. Big thanks to the folks at DiBruno's for their help with the oils, and to V for all the hard work getting it together in such an organized (and delicious) way!

Both.... it actually started with the curry in coconut milk, but then I cut it with almost an equal amount of milk. I think it's actually got potential, but it was a little intense. I didn't actually measure anything, but I might try again with less curry. A little bit goes a long way, but it was interesting. It might be better as an accent to some other dish. And for the kimchee purée: I'm not sure how they do it at the restaurant, but all I did was buzz some kimchee with an immersion blender and served it cold. It's a really nice accent. The bright sour spice of the kimchee countered the sweetness that had developed on the dark-roasted sprouts, and the richness of the abundant bacon. I'm totally making this again.

Greetings! Long-time listener, first time caller... About 10 Philadelphia eGulleters got together for a modest pot-luck, and well, I guess we should have predicted that it would get a little out-of-hand! Hopefully some of them will chime-in with details on their dishes. They were all delicious. Well, except one that was, well.. interesting. Capaneus brought cheese: mrbigjas made tofu/shrimp/chive/lemongrass...soup: Katie Loeb made a pear/fennel/cashew riff on a Waldorf salad I Call the Duck! made Chinese Barbecue ribs: and Roasted Cauliflower: Andrew Fenton made Roasted Fennel: philadining made Roasted Brussels Sprouts with Bacon and Kimchee Purée: (idea stolen shamelessly from David Chang at Momofuku) Diann made Shanghai Braised Pork Shoulder: and Sticky Rice with Chinese Ham and Sausage: (and graciously hosted the event!) Percyn made Akoori: and a Shrimp and Crab Curry: and Lamb Dhansak: (which may not look like much, but might have been the star of the evening!) and the Dhansak is traditionally paired with Shrimp Kebabs oh, and he also made these little sweet, spicy things the name of which I've forgotten (yes, as you might guess, it's an excellent idea to invite Percy to a Pot Luck!) Andrew Fenton also made a Pecan Pie: Mummer brought pastries from South Philly's famous Isgro's: and their legendary cannolis: and philadining, for reasons nobody in attendance could quite decipher, made Thai Masaman Curry Ice Cream: which met with, ahem, mixed reviews. In final analysis: amazing food, great company, big fun had by all. Big thanks to Diann for hosting, and letting us trash her kitchen! We're hoping she'll let us do it again sometime soon...

mix up the vetri oil. it makes all the difference. ← Yep, true for any of the unfiltered ones it seems, BIG difference in flavor, which makes total sense... premix on the left - postmix on the right - it's obvious even just looking at it... And it's true, if you're tasting a bunch of oil you need some tart apples. I don't think i had any idea how unbelieveably delicious toast could be. Sure it was slathered with excellent olive oil, a littel pesto and a dusting of cheese, but I think it was mostly down to that tiny grill and the magic charcoal.

Olive oil tasting seemed to be fun if not completely scientific. Thanks to all who actually replied and showed up last night. Phil A. will be posting the pics and further comments by other attendees. We just randomly chose 13 oils that we had access to, we all decided that a more focused tasting of 6 to 8 oils would be more coincise. Oils were as follows. 1.Dibruno Frutatto 2.Marques De Valdueza 3.Les Moulins Mahjoub 4.Novello / Marc Vetri 5.Carm 6.Yellingbo 7.Frantoia 8.Aguibal Manzanilla 9.Aguibal Arbequina 10.Becchina Olio Verde 11.Armando Manni Per Me 12.Armando Manni Per Me Figlio 13.Planeta Clearly there are some great oils out there we wanted to gather but they are way more expensive. Iwould like to see Geraci, Nunez De Prado and Laudemio in the next tasting. Tasting was structured as Smell/Aroma Color Flavor Heat sensitivity Affinity with food. SMELL / AROMA I decided to go with the Amplifier, It pushes aroma's further foward than any other glass and has the best functional swirl. COLOR and FLAVOR We used plastic inert 2 oz crytal clear cups. Philadinings new flourescent rig highlighted the room perfectly. HEAT SENSITIVITY Using a standard graduted flask, we heated up the oil with a hot air gun, temp was monitored with infra-red thermometer. Basically compared samples of the same oils with a 20 to 30 degree difference. Makes a big difference. More comments about this when the "Risotto of Nothing" is discussed. FOOD AFFINITY We decided to see the impact of Olive oil on various types of food and assembled a variety of small tastes to see the contribution of olive oil at the end. All dishes had olive oil added to the plate at the end. One could then taste the dish before and after the addition of oil. The dishes were as follows. Onaga Ceviche. Tomato-Tarragon Sorbet. Fennel. Mint. Cilantro. Aji Panca. Grilled Pane Rustica. Bincho-Tan Charcoal. Pesto Warm Burratta. Red Orach. Sea Salt. Black Pepper Risotto of Nothing. Parmesan. Lentil Stew. Chick Pea. Iberico Chorizo, Iberico Salsichon, Finochiona, Piquillo. Esplette. Benton Bacon. Mozzarella Ice Cream. Black Olive Sugar. More Shenanigans While the stoves were hot, we figure we would take a stab at the chicken issue. We cooked a bluefoot and Eberly Chicken exactly the same way and did a side by side comparison. Everyone immediately picked the bluefoot within 3 bites. Chickens were both : Breast Meat Only. 3 Grams of Maldon Salt each. CSV with 2oz Olive Oil 58C 2 Hrs. Seared Black Steel Pan/ Grapeseed oil. Again, more commentary from attendees and Phil. This was fun.

I suspect one small aspect of this disagreement could be that in at least one aspect, we might be talking about different things! Reading your description of the pork belly on your blog, I had the same reaction as Vadouvan had - that the egg isn't cooked in the broth. But as you described a server cracking an egg into your bowl and whisking it in, it occurred to me that maybe they've changed that dish! That term "slow-cooked egg" has generally been used to describe an egg cooked in its shell at a low, steady temperature, which results in something like a poached egg, but with a more custardy texture. That's what I've gotten several times as a component of snackbar's pork belly dish. But the egg was an independent element. Sure it was runny enough that it would seep into the dashi when pierced, but it was too solid to be "whisked-in". So are you saying that you had a raw egg cracked into your bowl, and it was then stirred-in, to create a thick, eggy broth? If so, I can imagine that the flavor interactions would be different than what we've had. But back to the larger point: David, I do hope you'll continue to read, and post here. These boards here on eGullet seem pretty civil to me, sometimes containing lively discussions, but generally respectful and productive ones. (OK, not always, but usually!) If we discuss your blog, or just places you've been, I hope you'll jump in and add your voice to the debate. There's room for many perspectives here, and I don't think this crowd is interested in stifling any of them, just discussing them.

Katie, I think M is an excellent idea, but it's such a small, charming spot that if it's not booked-up for Valentine's day, there's something seriously wrong with the universe. Of course that could be the case...

I don't think this topic will ever approach the amusing heights of the Bruni and Beyond thread, because it's just such a different situation. New Yorkers go apoplectic about Bruni because they feel that he just doesn't know enough about food, an assertion one would have a hard time making about LaBan, and Bruni is writing for the paper of record, in the freaking center of the freaking universe!!! I think LaBan is a very knowledgeable diner, and a good writer. I look forward to his reviews, and generally agree with them. He's free of most of the weird quirks that Bruni serves up as easy targets: the sometimes florid language, the obsession with decor, beautiful people and bathrooms... I'm actually kind of sad that Laban seems to have mothballed his decibel meter, I liked those reports on the ambient noise levels. But speaking of quirks, do we think that LaBan's buddy Paul won a drinking game at Kitchen 223 or something? He got mentioned by name 4 times in this one review - certainly a stylistic anomaly. I started having flashbacks to Sono Motoyama's frequent namechecking her husband Stephane (he's French, you know...) I think it will be good to have a dedicated topic here to discuss the Inky reviews, and the online chats, but I'm afraid we won't have anywhere near as much fun as our New York friends are having...