Octaveman

So my Kaffir lime tree is starting to grow limes. What can/should I do with them? The leaves have really slowed down in production.

http://www.chefsresource.com/

Mark, you are correct that the water is used to lubricate the stone as you work the knife. Stones need soaking because if you just put water on top of an unsoaked stone, the water would soak in and dissapear leaving your stone dry. Soaking the stone keep's it hydrated so any water that is added as you work your blades doesn't get slurped (an official term) up by your stone. Some people keep them wet which is fine and makes things fast and easy when you're ready to sharpen. Stones like Shapton's do not require pre-soaking; just keeping the surface wet is all that's required. I've never used oil stones but this is what people I know have said about these versus wetstones. This doesn't even address the clean-up issue. "Oil stones do not generate a slurry....the metal particles end up knocking down the edge - retarding the process." "Oil stones also clog up really fast as well as they are unable to get as keen of an edge on your knives. Oil stones do not get into as fine of grits as water stones do. Water > Oil" "oil stones cut way, way, way, way slower than Japanese water stones. It isn't even close. I've tested every one on the market. And, yes, Arkansas stones are even slower than man made oil stones like India stones. It is possible to get oil stones that will polish an edge. The Lansky extra fine stone is an example. It is roughly the equivalent of a 4000 or 5000 grit waterstone. I think oil stones do a good job but a slow one." "I don't know of any really fine oilstone which compares with waterstones in terms of fine grit and cutting speed."

Not sure which ones I recommended. You mean the Hattori FH line above (others)? If so, no comparison. The FH line blows this knife away in fit and finish, quality of materials, comfort, geometry, design...everything. I've had a Hattori HD gyuto before and didn't really like it all that much. It chipped on me the first time I used it and in several places. Have no idea how it happend either. Sold it and never bought another one. I recommend the FH line without reservation. You will not be dissapointed.

With Shun, the angles are very acute so I would say two pennies at the spine if it's a chef knife. Smaller knives would maintain that same angle but you couldn't use the pennies as a guide. If you use to big of an angle to the steel, the edge will just get rolled over to the other side and you'd end up moving it back and forth. Very light swipes. Doesn't take much.

William-Sonoma and Sur-la-Table get mentioned a lot whenever someone is looking for unique or high-quality items and it got me to thinking. Are these the only places that sell the good stuff? Is quality the draw or is the fact that they have pretty much anything you could want at these places? They carry the same knives that practically any other store carries so what makes these places so special? What are more examples of "high-end" stores where you live?

Absolutely. Stones used can apply to any kind of steel but it's that steel that determines HOW you sharpen it, not what stones to use. Your choice of brand could make a difference as they are not created equal. Shapton Pro's are the cream of the crop when it comes to cutting ability and convenience (no need to soak). I've had mine for a long while and they show very little wear. King Deluxe stones are very good too.

I don't know of any. A single bevel is not all that appropriate in a western kitchen unless you're preparing a lot of Japanese food requiring super thin prep of various ingredients. Out of all my knives only two are traditional single beveled...a yanagiba and a deba and neither see a whole lot of use.

I've never seen Moritaka so I can't really comment. From what one of the guys over there said, they're probably pretty close. Not sure if the AS version uses an octagon handle or a round handle. I would prefer the former. Another option for Takeda's knives are HERE. They have a 265mm available and what you see is what you get which eliminates any concern about quality. I'm fighting back the urge to get the Nakiri.

VG10 is NOT similar to Euro knives in any respect other than it's stainless. Higher quality steel that has been heat treated to be harder and more durable than any steel used by Euro companies. I think you're confused about what Japanese knives are. "Traditional" Japanese knives have very specific purposes and are all single beveled (sushi knife or Yanagiba for example). A "Western" style Japanese knife is double beveled just like any other knife around the world. Maintaining a western styled Japanese knife is basically no different than maintaining Euro knives but there are differences that make Japanese knives superior and keeping those differences intact requires a slightly different mind set when it comes to maintenance. But it's no big deal requiring additional work, it's just different.

Wow, I never intended to have my post above discussed to any capacity. I was in an antagonistic mood that day and I was mocking those that buy or are interested in particular brands of knives just because professional chef's use them. Direct marketing apparently works but I've never seen it in action nor am I EVER infulenced by it so I just added my pissy two cents. Just for the record, I would never buy RR's knives and like otheres here, don't think highly of them any more than I do Cutco's knives which are probably the same material only costing 5x's as much.

Alan, the knife I had was the double beveled yanagiba. The knife is made thin and was supposed to be somewhat flexible like a sujihiki (which is essentially what it was). I knew about this flexibility and I tested it and I bent the knife. Freaked me out at first but I just bent it back and didn't do it again. It's a very thin knife that was probably 2mm or less in thickness at the handle. There was nothing wrong with it. My gyuto is 100% perfect. Not one thing wrong. Not flexible either. Matter of fact I ordered a 240mm and got a 255mm. The yanagiba I had was to be 300mm but was 312mm. He used to do that with all his knives...give an extra 15mm of knife. Don't know if he still does this though. The couple of people who did get bad knives got them from Takeda in that condition. Don't know what happened, don't know why Takeda was having a problem with the complaints. Could've been mishandled by the shipping people as I seriously doubt a knife with a significantly bent tip would go out Takeda's door. He's been around for many years and frankly those were the only complaints based on craftsmanship that I've heard. He makes many knives on a regular basis and to have just a few slip through the cracks would not be an issue for me. If I had the need, I would buy more from him. I almost bought a Nakiri (just because I want one) and am not concerned about those few isolated issues affecting my purchase. My only concern is that your knife that will be made with a specially requested profile will not be to your liking. Whether it be too wide, too flat or you don't like the traditional handle. Nothing related to quality but just to whether or not you like using the knife. We can talk about how great the craftsmanship is, how great the steel is, how freakishily sharp it can get but if you don't like the way it feels it's all moot. Talk to me before you place your order about what to say that might make your special request clearer to them. Here are a few pics of my gyuto that may help in your decision to pull the trigger. The first two were taken when I first got the knife about a year and a half ago. The last two were taken last month. I think his knives are just plain beautiful. I love them.

HA! I do take comfort in the fact that there others that are more obsessive than me. Unfortunately they're not here to back me up. Besides, I do use every single one to cook with and one of them to almost cut my thumb in half. If it was dull, it would've slid down my thumbnail instread of cut through it....hmmm, makes one wonder.

That is very likely true Sam. I wonder if there's any kind of correlation of the type of knives used in each of those camps. Latter camp being the high performance knives and the former camp being whatever was on sale at Walmart. Hahaha...just kidding about the last part but seriously though... With the cost of the Apex being so much higher than that of Japanese stones I wonder how likely these people who just want a decent edge on their knives are willing to spend that much when they don't have any knives costing over $40. There are exceptions of course but it seems expensive for the typical home cook to own and I don't see them buying it anymore than I see them buying a $200 Blazen or Takeda gyuto. Also, I can't imagine the Apex not taking some time to learn how to properly get that sharp edge it's capable of. Sure, you may be able to hook it up and away you go, but there has to be learned techniques and processess that are necessary to get that desired edge. Same thing of waterstones. The very first time I sat down with my stones and the Korin video, my old knives were sharper than they've ever been. Doesn't mean I'm now proficient at it nor does it mean the knives can't get any sharper. The Apex may be more accurate for the newbie but I still see this as comparing apples to oranges. Two different methods of sharpening both with their own learning curve. I can gaurantee it that Mary Jane Housewife will have as much problem with the Apex as she would with waterstones.

Uh, using a stone dry? I don't know if that's appropriate. By using a dry stone I'm pretty sure all is being done is loading the stone up and rendering it useless over time. Waterstones are another matter entirely. Both Japanese and synthetic waterstones require water in order to cut effectively. Japanese waterstones can be damaged if used dry and must be soaked thoroughly before use. Waterstones wear very quickly, revealing new layers of cutting abrasive as the swarf builds up and is washed away. That’s why they are so effective. There is always a new layer of sharp abrasive cutting away at the metal of your edge. By the way, “swarf” is one of those cool terms you get to toss around when you discuss sharpening. Swarf is the slurry of metal filings and stone grit that builds up as you sharpen. Throw that into your next cocktail party conversation and just watch the expressions of awe appear as people realize that you are a sharpening God. I have Japanese wetstones and water is essential as stated above. I understand waterstones are higher quality than oil stones and can get into higher grits. Almost all Japanese stones need to be soaked first for about 15-20 minutes before using. Shapton Pro stones are extremely good stones and they do not need soaking. Just spritz water on them and away you go. What stones do you have?

Only the VG10 is available now. The upper line won't be available for about a year. Cowry-X can be a bitch to sharpen. Very tough to remove a lot of metal and/or get a burr but it will depend on what someone is trying to do...thin the back bevel or just touch up the edge. The AS is not as bad since the HRC is much lower at 61-63 as compared to 65-68 with CX. SS's like VG10 are not gummy on the stones and are much easier to sharpen. Don't know where you heard that. Maybe with Euro knives and their softer steel...maybe. The AS is a tough steel but not so tough as to make it difficult. For example, one may start at 2k to sharpen SS but 800 to start with AS. You can start the AS on a 2k stone but it will just take a long time to get a burr if you're doing it right. This is when it's dull and needs a true sharpening job as opposed to just touch-ups. In that case 3k may be the starting point. It will all depend on how dull it is and what kind of steel.

Jon, why do you want a chef's knife AND a santoku? They both do the same job. The gyuto will give you more flexibility because they are available in longer sizes. Most Santoku's don't get beyond 165mm or 180mm. That's only 7 inches. Check these out. These are hand worked and are very high quality. I can gaurantee you'd be happy with one. They're a brand new knife comissioned by Hattori. Great steel, great design, hand contoured handle, the works. http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HattoriF...hefsKnives.html I've never worked with SV30 stainless steel but I've heard it makes for a very tough blade and can be difficult to sharpen. Difficult = time consuming if you let it get dull. Once the edge is there it should last quite a while but that's also determined by your style of usage.

Yeah, pretty much. Some people have the index finger down the spine but technically it's supposed to be opposite of the thumb so you're gripping/pinching the blade with your thumb and index finger on opposite sides of the spine. Just like how it's pictured in the knife skills tutorial but same basic idea as what you do. http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=25958

Halinger's knives are very nice and you can't do any wrong with getting one. The only thing I've heard is that knuckle clearance is sort of an issue as the handles are close to alignment with the edge. If you use your knives utilizing a pinch grip then I see no issues at all. Check out this place as they have a whole selection of his knives. The 10" Chef's knife with rosewood handle is a damn sexy thing. I almost bought it myself. http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopdisplaypr...=27831456585235

Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for clarifying for me, Sam.

If the tolerance between the stone and the knife is that small to cause scratches from the metal particles by themselves wouldn't a piece of tape get in the way of trying to sharpen at that acute angle? I used to use blue painters tape on my knives when learning on stones and I kept scuffing the tape rather than the knife (which is a good thing) but I could never get the angle I wanted as a result. I always had to raise the angle ever so slightly to keep from hitting the tape. Definately a good training tool. Does this happen with the Apex? Alan, thanks. Don't have time to read it now but will later. Doronin, that is very true that for light home use you won't "need" to sharpen often. I actually find sharpening with stones fun and when I first got started, I sharpened everything I had every week whether it needed it or not. My edges got progressively sharper the more proficient I got doing all this practicing. I'm to the point now that the skill is 2nd nature so I sharpen every 3-4 weeks or as needed. The idea of doing something by hand appeals to me more that hooking up a machine and going through the motions then moving on. I know I'm in the minority here when it comes to knives and sharpening but that's okay. Maybe I really am nuts, who knows.

Russ, is the article online?

Yes, this is what I was expecting to see. The Apex is a good system and you can get good results and is pretty much fool proof. I would actually like to see it in action some day. Working with stones is definately a skill that needs to be learned but it doesn't take long to get it if you learn and stick to the basic's. Practice on crappy knives first then move on. Go slow and stay consistant with your angles. Korin has a sharpening video that is very good at showing you how to properly sharpen knives on stones. Great visual instruction as just reading about it can get confusing.

I personally think it's a good idea to learn the skill. It doesn't really take long to get the hang of it. I personally use whetstones and have so since day 1 so I'm definately partial to them and praising the benefits to them. The biggest benefit I believe is flexibility. Don't ask me to compare and contrast because I won't be able to without doing some research. Regarding the Edge Pro though, I've never used it so I can't really comment but I too have heard good things so it certainly is an option. I do know that with Japanese knives and their very acute angles, the sides could get scuffed up. That's what I heard anyway. Takeda's bevels are pretty acute but it's your knife so you can do whatever you want to it when you sharpen. But then you'd be changing one of the things that makes his knives so appealing. You could go to the knife forums listed below and look around, maybe even sign up and post too. Your questions will get answered pretty quickly. FF Cutlery Forum KF Knife forums Also, a new line of stainless knives just became available to the public today as a matter of fact that are very high-end and worth a look if you're on the fence about SS v. carbon. Go HERE.

Yeah, that's what I thought. One of the trademarks of Takeda's knives is that they are lightweight. The 270mm will be blade heavy but then that's a relative term when you try to compare blade heaviness with a German knife. IOW, there difference is significant and would be less prevalent with the Takeda. Actually, if you use it as a rocker, the blade will be resting on the board anyway, right? You won't even notice the balance issue. The octagon handle shape is very easy to hold and because of it's shape one can get a secure grip with little problem. It won't take long at all to get used to it. Yes, very good material for handles. Very rich in color and very well made along with the buffalo horn ferrule. There are basically two standards with Japanese knives. Traditional Japanese knives are chisel ground and have a single wide bevel. Western style are double beveled with some makers grinding them 50/50 or 70/30 or 80/20 and maybe even 90/10 but that is up to the maker. I'm pretty sure Takeda's gyuto's are 50/50 Do you find this to be true? Is there any clarification that needs to be added to the above statement, or should it truly be taken at face value? I'm wondering if cutting acidic items and then rinsing and wiping the knife immediately will really still lead to microscopic corrosion that will quickly damage the edge as compared to stainless, and if so, then is the benefit of carbon steel simply that it can more easily be re-sharpened to a sharper edge? I would agree with this but the amount of degrediation of the blade is so minute that honestly you would remove more metal just by periodic sharpening than acid eating your blade...even for the length of time it's present on the blade before rinsing. It is always a good idea to cut something up and then rinse your knife before moving on the the next item. I do that all the time. I oftentimes rinse it off and set it on the counter while I gather stuff out of the fridge to cut next. I don't view it as any kind of a problem or issue with owning carbon steel. I'm not sure what steels Chad is referring to when he says SS gets sharper and stays sharper longer than carbon. Aogomi Super is a very tough steel and will stay sharp for a long time and in my experience it stays sharper than any stainless knife I have...well except for my Hattori KD. My pleasure.