Peter Reinhart

All great questons! Regarding the wetness, try using a tad less tomato sauce on the sauce and cheese pizza because,, as you've noticed, the cheese releases a lot of moisture. Chris Bianco, for instance, almost paint brushes it on--way less than you would expect compared to most American pizzerias, but less can be more when it come to total flavor. When stretching the dough remember to stretch only from the outer edge, not from the center, turning as you go. As soon as the dough starts to fight you (spring back), set it down on a floured counter and let it rest a few minutes. Then resume stretching. It may take three or four rests before it stretches all the way out. This is different from pizzeria dough that spins and stretches so easily, but the payoff is that it pops wonderfully in the oven and tastes like the best ciabatta you ever had. One final thing might be to use about 1/2 to 1 ounce less water when mixing the dough. This will help strengthen it and make it easier to stretch it wider (still using the rest periods). My doughs are wetter than what you'll find in most pizzeias, but that's what makes them taste so much better. But drier is definitely easier to spin and stretch. I prefer not to use cake flour because I like a chewier, not flakier dough. So, I go the other way and add a little bread flour (I actually like the Neo-Napoletana dough recipe better than the Napoletana because I like the "chew" better). Have you made that one yet? Let me know if it stretches easier for you--I think it might. In informal taste testings this one usually gets a few more votes than the Napoletana.

Yes, I do think the raisin water, and perhaps also the diastatic barley malt, helped to protect the starter from invasion in the C&C method. For those who are wondering what the heck we're talking about, I refer you to the King Arthur baking Circle and great detective work by some of the more scientific members who isolated an invading bacteria, not the lactobacilus strain we wanted, that interfered with the yeast development and seemed to (but didn't really) kill the starter. Macy, one of the members, came up with the best remedy when she substituted pienapple juice for water during the first day mixing. Either the acidity or something esle in the p-juice kept the invader at bay until the good organisms could get established. This problem did not always come up, but a large percentage of readers encountered it. We dubbed Macy's techique The Pineapple Juice Solution (a great title for a book, I think). Log onto the ing Arthur site for the whole story (you'll have to fish it out of archives) Anyway, we rarely, if ever, had this problem with the starter method in Crust & Crumb. Thanks Kyle!

Good point. The reason I do both is because in a home oven it never seems like enough steam, regardless. So I've taken to cranking the oven up to 550, using both methods, then turning the oven down to 450 at the end of the last spray. Usually the oven settles in at this temperature (450) after being opened during the spritzes. That said, I think this is a personal choice and if your breads do better with just the water pan, stay with that. I think I just love the sound of the hissing steam and moist warmth on my face when I open the door. It's part of the bread drama experience for me but, realistically, the better insulated your oven the less you will need to do the additional spritzes.

I'm a big fan of the "turning," also called stretch and fold, technique for certain breads such as ciabatta, focaccia, pizza, and French baguette. You nailed it when you explained that it's all about minimizing the oxidation of the caratene pigments (which add flavor and aroma to the baked loaf). But even more importantly, it's used to minimize over-organization of the gluten network. Some breads, like sandwich loaves, brioche, challah, soft enriched doughs, etc. require well organized gluten networks to create even-sized holes. But hearth breads are better with large irregular holes. If we develop the gluten just enough to hold together but not to the point of full organization of the strands, you have a better chance for large, irregular holes. These, again, translate into better flavor since the larger holes tranfer heat faster into the loaf, and thus it gels the starches, caramelizes the sugars, and roasts the proteins more thoroughly. It's always, in the end, about flavor and large irregular holes, simply stated, cause the bread to taste better. The turn, or stretch and fold method, allows additional strengthening of the gluten without additional mixing. It wouldn't make much diference in long mix doughs but is very important for short mix doughs.

Hi Linda, I'll take a stab at it: the barley flakes may be creating weak spots in the gluten network that start small and then expand and split as the dough rises. The outside of the loaf, which is drier, is especially vulnerable. That's why the oil seems to help. If everything else about the bread is good, then you can continue oiling the top or brush it with a light egg wash two or three times (at intervals) while its rising (1 egg beaten with 1 or 2 tablespoons of water) to keep the top moist. You can also sprinkle poppy or sesame seeds on the top to help cover the splits if it's just a visual, rather than structural or flavor flaw. Let me know if this helps. One final trick might be to mix the dough for 2 extra minutes. Sometimes this added kneaded can strenthen the network enough to allow it to hold together through the stressful final rise.

Hi Owen, Can't wait for you to move down here and open a cafe. We do have a number of decent pizzerias in Charlotte but my favorite, the one closest to New York brick oven pizza, is called Louisa's. It's on Montfort Court Rd. Another place, Fuel Pizza does a decent NY Style street pizza (like Rays and all the Rays clones), but only Louisa's (on a good day), so far, could hold its own with, say Johns's. In answer to your other question, yes, there is definitely a market for artisinal bakeres, pastry shops, and pizzerias here. This is a very dynamic, growing city and interest in good food is, as in so many other places, going wild. The farm markets probably best reflect this, and I've met some wonderful, dedicated growers. Call me when you land and I'll help you scout out a location.

Seth, What are you, some kind of s---disturber! Just kidding, I love your question and I also love the writings of John Thorne, one of our truly most original food essayists. My point of contention with him back then, and still today (not with him but with people who adopt what I consider an elitist position on bread), is that there are many ways to make great tasting bread and we don't have to denigrate one in order to praise another. I agree with John totally about the joys of flying without a net and working with the simplest of ingredients in uncontrollable environments all for the purpose and possibility of creating a loaf that is good beyond belief. I loved his image then as I still do today. I just didn't like the idea that to bake in a controlled fashion or with commercial yeast was somewhat of a lesser accomplishment. I used my Struan bread (still my favorite all time bread) as an example of being creative within the bread paradigm using other ingredients and commercial yeast. I think John understands my point, and I certainly honor his, and for the most part I think we're pretty simpatico on the matter. There truly is something enriching and fulfilling about evoking the full potential of flavor from wheat and wheat alone, using time honored baking and fermentation methods that really test the craftsmanship of the baker. As one gets more into bread baking it's important, I think, to explore the limitless depth of making simple breads superbly, as well as learning to blend many ingredients in harvest and festival type breads for a completely different taste and function. Both categories reflect powerful symbolism and together they really portray the full breadth and depth of the bread experience and its traditonal role as a symbol of life and the presence of the Creator in creation.

Hi, It could be a variety of issues but I'm guessing that if your dough is flat going into the oven it either over-rose and fell or, more likely, needed more time before going into the oven. If the dough is flat and dense the heat can't get to the center and gel the starches. By the time it does, the crust has over-caramelized (ie, carbonized!), and you feel like a failure. BUT it's not you--it's just your dough. Here are a few tips: make sure you get a good and proper first rise. This is critical to a good final rise. When you shape the dough after the first fermentation, be gentle with it and try to retain some of the gas from the first rise while, at the same time, firmly giving it its final shaping. Then let the dough rise until it's at least 1 1/2 times the original size (it doesn't have to be doubled, sometimes this is too much for a hearth bread and it has nowhere to go but down when it goes into the oven). Keep your oven very hot until after you spray or steam the bread (I'm assuming you're steaming it with either a spray bottle or with hot water in a pan), and then reduce the temperature to the equivelent of 450 degrees fahrenheit (I'm still not good at those conversions). If the dough has sugar or other sweeteners in it then this temperature would be too high. You need to be at more like 375-400 degrees fahrenheit. Otherwise, the crust will, again, carbonize. Lean breads (little or no enrichments like sugar and fats) bake hot; enriched doughs (sandwich breads, soft rolls, briohe, cinnamon buns, challah, etc.), bake cooler. As I've said in other posts, it's all a balancing act between time, temperature, and ingredients. Let me know if this helps and don't give up--it's only a short leap from hockey pucks to beautiful loaves.

And thank you, Geetha! Sincerely Peter

Hi Seth, Thanks for asking that! My version is based on Gosselin's but is modified for the home and small batch baker (I noted that in the book, so do tell those who were tweaked to please go back and read the text). The ongoing theme of the book was the idea that we need to master the rules, the so-called letter of the law, in order to be free to break or tweak them, to bake by the "spirit" of the rules. In this case, the key is understanding why Gosseline's cold fermentation works at all. What he does is mix water and flour but no yeast or salt, and then chills it overnight. In big batches it would be risky to add the yeast because it takes hours for the dough to cool down and the dough might overferment. This won't happen in small batches which can cool quickly in the fridge (plus using cold water during mixing), so I add the salt and yeast right up front and then chill it. This saves hours of production time the next day as the dough is basically ready to use when you retrieve if from the fridge. Gosselin, on the other hand, remixes on the second day and adds yeast and salt, then waits six hours for the dough to gradually awaken and ferment. This is a good example of two ways up the mountain that both get to the peak. More importantly, though, is grasping why the technique works so. The cold fermentation (or in Gosselin's case, the cold "blank" dough) allows the amylase enzymes that exist in the flour to break apart the starches and free up many of the various sugars trapped in those complex molecules. It is not the bacteria or yeast that does this, but the enzymes (which is why, in the intro, I called understanding enzymes the next frontier of bread baking). In the end, it is always about the balancing act between time, temperature, and ingredients. The Gosselin method achieves a flavor release beyond even what preferments (which are working towards the same goal) can do, which is why I think it has great, but still underappreciated, implications for American bakers. My variation achieves the same end goal and, especially for home bakers, eliminates a step that big batch bakers need to use, but not small batch bakers. So yes, I give Gosselin credit for opening my mind to the concept and for perfecting a brilliant method for implementing it, but not for inventing this method, which certainly other bakers have also stumbled upon and use. I doubt if Gosselin has the slightest idea why, scientifically, his method works so well--it took me a year of peeling back layers of the onion (so to speak) to get past the conventional wisdom (that it's about the yeast or bacteria) and finally realize that it's more about the enzymatic action. This kind of detective work is part of the joy and "aha!" of baking, and why it never seems to get old.

Hi Mr. Toast, You're right about the importance of deck vs. top heat. The answer is, and I don't mean to be facetious, it depends on the oven. Typically, the hearth will absorb and radiate heat directly into the bottom of the loaf and if the deck is too hot the bottoms get burned before the loaf is fully cooked in the center, or caramelized on top. This can also happen the other way around if the deck is cooling off while the ambient air and dome are radiating intensity. Each brand or design has its own peculiarities and personality so you have to play with your oven to find the hot spots, where to build the fire, when to sweep it out, etc. As a rule of thumb, the deck temperature, if you can get a read on it, should be between 425-460 degrees. The ambient temperature at loaf level, should be about the same or slightly higher. In ovens with live fire, the top and dome area will be even hotter, say 500 degrees, and this is okay if the dome is fairly high. For pizzas, the hotter the better, up to 800 degrees or so (in the dome, not the deck, which should be more like 550-600). All of this varies though, as I said, from brand to brand. Your brand or design maker should have some more specific details. Also, Alan Scott and Dan Wing's book, "The Bread Builders," has some great info on this.

Hi Snowangel, I think the moment is at hand. Since you've been making bread with moderate success but haven't read my books yet and are about to, I'm hoping they will take you the rest of the way there. If there's any chance of reading the introductory chapter of "The Bread Baker's Apprentice," and then baking a bread from it that your family will like, and then writing again later this week (or even after the Q&A ends--my email address for anyone wanting to stay in touch afterwards is preinhart@jwu.edu), I'd love to hear if you've had your awaited epiphany. The focaccia formula, by the way, is equally good in that book and also in "American Pie," so you might want to consider trying that, as kids love it as much as adults. Anyway, let me know.

Uh oh--I knew this was coming. As I said in another post, Pizzeria Bianco (Phoenix) is definitely the most important and best pizzeria in America. Chris Bianco is the new poster boy for what I've been calling the emerging artisan pizza renaissance in America. Both Ed Levine and Jeffrey Steingarten have come on board with me on this one, so check out Jeffrey's recent Vogue piece about "real" food, and Ed's recent NY Times story on Bianco. The good news is that there are more great pizzeria's coming and even most of the great icon pizzerias like Frank Pepe's, Sally's, Lombardi's, Totonno's, etc., seem to be rising to the challenge to stay at a high level (some of them had fallen a bit a few eyars ago but seem to have caught a second or third wind). I'll know better when I get back to NYC next month and check some of them out. The challenge for the older places is keeping their staff on board and maintaining the passion of the earlier generations. Chris Bianco emerged in my book as the "hero" figure specifically because of the passion he embodies and transmits through his food, not just with pizza but now also focaccia and panini sandwiches at his new place, Pane' Bianco. As for toppings, well I'm a real sucker for Frank Pepe's white clam, but now I think I can match it at home with the version I created for "American Pie.," using canned baby clams marinated in herbed garlic oil. Passion is one thing that never seems to lack in the barbecue world, but I'd be premature to say I have a favorite place yet (Flints in Oakland was my benchmark when I lived in the Bay Area, but now that I live in the Carolina's I'm developing a real taste for shoulder and whole hog). Barbecue, like pizza, has so many variations and versions that I'd rather hear from some of you about where I need to go when I start my serious barbecue "hunts" for a future book. I should have some good stories to tell when I return from the Jack Daniels Championship in a few weeks. Of course, competition barbecue and roadside barbecue are usually (but not always) two different things. But, like pizza, there are really only two kinds of barbecue: good and very good.

Dear Elie, Thanks for your kind words about "...Apprentice." The Poilane-style miche (country loaf) is tricky. The problem you're having is probably the whole wheat flour you're using (I'm assuming you're sifting whole wheat flour as described, or blending white flour with whole wheat). This can sometimes create a more acidic loaf and, depending on how much bran gets through the sifter, cause a denser loaf. You might want to try making it with what bakers call "Clear Flour." This is a high protein flour that hasn't been sifted as much as "patent flour" (regular white bread flour), and thus still retains some of its bran and germ, but not too much. I find that it tastes great, rises well, and makes a pretty good miche. The best way to get this flour is to go to a local bakery that makes their own rye bread and ask if they have any in stock. Explain that you're a home baker and beg them to sell you 10 or 20 pounds from their stock. Most bakers will do so and the price should be lower than a regular bag of flour from the supermarket (if they're kind and generous, as they should be). You might also check with King Arthur Flour to see if they have anything that approximates the wheat flour of Poilane (the Baking Circle on their website is a goldmine of information sharing). They also carry a white whole wheat flour that makes great bread and, while I haven't used it yet in the Poilane bread, it would be worth trying. Also, regardless of the flour, be sure you're getting a good first rise before you go to the shaping stage. if the first rise isn't significant, then the second (final) rise will be very slow and probably make a very dense, tight loaf. Please let me know if these suggestions help.

Hi Adoxograph, New Haven is, in my opinion (which I share with you and with so many other pizza freaks), the true epicenter of pizza in America (though Pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix is my favorite pizzeria in the world--and there are more artisan pizzerias of this caliber coming our way in a number of cities). As for the future, well you can see from my opening letter that I'm doing a lot of barbecue exploration right now, having recently moved to North Carolina, where such things are taken quite seriously (plus, I've always had deep love for both barbecue and chili--how could anyone not?). In terms of bread, I definitely am in favor of the emerging trend towards whole grain. As bakers apply slow fermentation methodology to this category (which has always been the case in Europe--we're just getting skin in the game recently), these breads will rightly regain prominence in our diets. Futuristically, there will always be a battle or tension between technology that replicates natural processes vs. natural processes themselves. Inthis heavily populated and starving world there is probably a need and a place for both. That said, I think even a hundred years from now there will still be craft bakers putting out superior products and finding a niche market for themselves. But it will be tough and it will always be a challenge for craftspersons to stay relevent in a technological and digital world. Fortunately, and I'm more optimistic than some on this, I believe the human soul will always have a hunger for true craft and will honor both our inner need and those who fill it by supporting it when possible. I hope I'm right; the alternative seems quite unappetizing. This is why, by the way, the mystique really doesn't ever get old for me--it just gets deeper and riper.

Thanks for your kind words. "Crust & Crumb," I think, does have the best sourdough information, and the sourdough starter formula, though more fussy than the one in "Bread Baker's Apprentice," is more reliable.

Hi, Yes, I agree that "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" is probably my most complete bread book so, if you could only have one, get that one. It covers a lot of the background science in lay language and the feedback I've been getting is that most people are happy with the formulas, the instructions, and the results of their baking. As for humidity well, for bread that's a good thing, usually helping with rise and such. In some instances you may have to cut back slightly on the water in your dough to compensate for moister flour but this is hard to quantify from here, since the brand of flour and it's age are key factors. That's why I always suggest learning to let the dough dictate what it needs. In other words, use the instructions as a guideline but, in the end, you have to adjust the final dough and develop a feel for it and this only comes from experience. Fortunately, it's a cheap hobby and even what you think of as your failures will probably still impress people if you discipline yourself not to apologize for your bread. My dictum is this: Fresh baked bread is always a hit no matter how it turns out."

Dear Geetha, You raise a great big existential question: where do our passions, in this case food passions, come from. I'd be a fool to offer a definitive answer but it's a dialogue for the ages. I will say this: it always seems fruitful to me that, when someone discovers something that they love, to explore it fully and deeply. It may lead to some amazing self discovery encounters, and it may also lead to some new, unforeseen adventures. As for pizza itself, after writing the book I came to the conclusion that pizza works for so many people, even when it's not executed at the highest level, because there's something so intrinsically satisfying about dough with something on it (which is what pizza, focaccia, naan, taco's, grilled cheese, and so many other products are) that it just works, in a universal manner. So in one sense, all these "dough with something on it" products are variations of pizza (or pizza is, more correctly, perhaps the finest expression of the category called "dough with something on it"). Why does it work so well? Here's my conclusion: the single most important thing we teach our young culinarians and budding chefs is that if they want to be succssful they have to learn how to deliver one vital thing--flavor. Dough with something on it, especially pizza, just happens to be the most perfect flavor delivery system ever devised. Anyway, good luck with your journey of self discovery and may your pizzas all be perfect!

Hi Everybody, Just wanted to say hello. I'm honored to be with you this week and look forward to your questions. We can get into bread, pizza, baking science, metaphysics, barbecue, or any combination of the above. For those in NYC, I'll be attending the NY Pizza Show at Javitts from Nov. 1-3, and will be speaking on the topic, "The Emerging Artisan Pizza Renaissance." Maybe some of you can come. We'll even be showing some clips of a new documentary currently in production on pizza passion (working title, "Pizza, The Movie"--it's not my film but I get a little screen time. The film makers will be there, taping the conference, including the pizza tossing competetion. Don't laugh--these teams take it pretty seriously, they do amazing stunts with dough, and the winner gets to go to Italy for the World Championship). More details on all this later, if you want them. I'm headed out in three weeks to be a guest judge at the Jack Daniels World Barbecue Championship in Lynchburg, Tennessee, so you can see that there there is life after pizza. Don't hesitate to chime in with some comments from that realm, as we all know there's no neutrality when it comes to both pizza and barbecue. Anyway, I'm thrilled to be part of the Egullet universe. Let's see what develops.... Sincerely, Peter