
lxt
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Everything posted by lxt
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Steve – thank you. I’ll make it my signature line as a slight reminder for our future battles.
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Cabby, your paragraph is inspiring, intense and expresses in the most concise and poetic form the experiences I am looking forward to. It is when each dish forces a shiver of expectation, and all senses become engaged in the feast of flavors, that happiness and excitement take their utmost form. If one was ever able to experience it, I don’t think he can ever go back. Our appreciation of the artist’s intention depends on our ability to sort out the fake, the imitative, the second-rate, and the second-hand. The essence of criticism is the asking of questions, and once we start asking such questions we must go on. Books can tell us something of a chef’s and restaurant’s times, something of technique, something of composition, and it is certainly helpful to be made aware of these things. But the best way to widen our knowledge of “art” is to look at many more “pictures.” Therefore, i am not sure whether Daniel will be the one and only for me in the future since I am an explorer by nature. It is possible that on my second visit, I’ll become more critical, but Daniel certainly was the first place that touched me in the most profound way, and I will treasure this experience. And I actually can’t wait until I get to Paris which I am going to visit in June.
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awbrig – Thanks. We made the mistake of not using the flash (not to disturb other diners) until that last picture of little delights. You can’t possibly imagine the disappointment we faced upon discovering that instead of pictures with little and big memories all we had was one big dark blob. Next time I may consider being less considerate toward other diners.
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The clock was beating the final stroke of 7, our reservation time, as we emerged from the revolving door leading to the luxury of a soft bouquet of burgundy velvet dominating the main lobby. Before the eye got used to the lavishness of the room, we were gently taken for a dance, where the steps included slipping from our coats, being led to the main desk, and in a continuing waltz, being directed toward the bronze-studded mahogany doors and to the “ballroom.” Considering that my view of the High Renaissance is epitomized by the exquisitely balanced frescoes of Raphael and the expressive and colorful paintings of Titian, the main dining room with its carved pilasters and balustrades, strong contrasts of color, clear tones, and firm contours was a rather formal statement of theme where idealist neoclassicism was predominant. The interior of the room is arranged as tiers of galleries around a central space and reminded me of an opera house. Indeed, the high (about 20 feet) coffered and stenciled ceiling of the center “stage” provided such a vibration diverted high into the ceiling that the world’s leading opera singers, conductors, musicians and critics would have acclaimed the wonderful acoustics. In an environment where many vocalists sing in dissonance, however, the ultimate effect of music transforms into the unison of noise. By 9 p.m., it was quite clear that we had to engage our hearing to the extreme to make out the words of our captain. It seemed that the center “stage” was allocated to the regulars, business people and other important diners. Their contingent was dominated by smoothly shaved men in almost uniform suits and ties, and fading women in overbearing makeup and low-cut cocktail dresses revealing hanging flesh, where their illusion of offbeat sophistication could otherwise be disturbed by the throngs of bare young arms and legs. There was one family including three children of ages around 15, 10 and 8 showing exemplary manners and straight posture. At the end of their dinner when the cart of beautiful-looking cheeses was rolled to their table, the usual scene of screaming children running around the cart that one could so easily imagine was replaced by a picture of children standing by the cart pointing politely toward their choices. It was almost artificial. We felt right at home. We were seated at a table for the “audience” on the balcony tier a couple of steps above the main center area in the direction of the kitchen. A decorative partition separated the kitchen from the row of tables. A long rectangular lamp table with several empty bottles of wine leaned against the partition and a fine work of mosaic featuring a peacock finished the composition. This seemed to be a temporary station where a captain would mentor younger staff, which we had an opportunity to observe with pleasure and interest later in the evening. The dining tables in this area seemed to be well-spaced and well-sized, which allowed for privacy of conversation and a feeling of freedom. As soon as an impeccably trained staff helped us to position our bodies in the plush velvet chairs, a sumptuous feast for the senses began. We contacted Daniel’s main office several days in advance to acquaint ourselves with their regular and tasting menus. Thus, upon our captain’s attempt to present us with a menu description, we told him of our selection, relieving him of the burden of this duty, and our conversation shifted to the restaurant’s beautiful Web site. We decided to go with the 5-course tasting menu with paired wines, sharing the options between the two of us. It began with an amuse bouche of three tiny savory nibbles presented on a two-tiered plate offering luxurious bites of a wonderfully creamy and pungent goat cheese tartelet spiked at the last moment with a pine nut; a smooth, creamy smoked salmon mousse served in an Asian porcelain soupspoon; and a tiny, rectangular, paper-thin piece of dried prosciutto surrounded by three types of lightly marinated tender but firm beets served in a white cup. This amuse deserves more attention. There are three kinds of beets: red, golden, and a red and white variety called bullseye. The flavor is similar for all three types, and we shouldn’t have been fooled into different sensory responses to them. However, the three richly colored tiny cubes of deep red and bright-golden beet and the half-circle of bullseye beet, accented by the white color of the serving dish, were so distinctive that the colors themselves allowed us to perceive perhaps just slightly different flavors. It was truly amazing how the color could affect our judgment, and if that was the chef’s intention, then the simplicity of its technical realization was fabulous. The first course: Marinated Hamachi Tuna with Fresh Fennel Bavarois, Shaved Fennel, Pink Grapefruit and Avocado A raw piece of very light-colored and delicately flavored tuna, firm and shiny, was curled into a flower and placed in the center of a plate. The meat had a clean taste set off by creamy fennel and avocado(?) custard of a pale green color matching well with the long strips of thinly shaved fresh fennel marinated in lemon juice. Slices of pink grapefruit provided a beautiful color contrast, and a tiny piece of fresh avocado completed the composition. Each element of the dish was presented as a separate entity. The fresh fennel offered a crunch and added a refreshing citrus flavor of sweet licorice with bittersweet orange, where the anise-like note was secondary when taken with the tuna. The grapefruit, on the other hand, performed the role of a slightly acidic and sweet contrast. Each element had a purpose to offset, complement or transform the taste of the tuna, making it smoother or sharper, and experimenting with different combinations was quite enjoyable. The dish was exceptional. Peeky Toe Crab Salad with a Gold Pineapple and Celery Gelée, Lime Dressing and a Crisp Pineapple Chip Though the details of this dish’s presentation escape me, what comes to mind is a cylinder of sweet crab salad dressed with a thin remoulade sauce, crowned with a dried pineapple chip and surrounded by honey-sweet cubes of fresh pineapple. I thought that the sweetness of the pineapple overshadowed the natural sweetness of the crab meat. This dish had a much more direct and straightforward flavor than that of the hamachi tuna, which took me by surprise as I expected a little subtler taste to parallel the other choice of first course rather than oppose it. On the contrary, my consort was at a disadvantage to distinguish the subtleties of the hamachi tuna dish before clearing his palate since his taste buds were adjusted to the stronger course of the crab salad first. The paired wine was Sauvignon de Saint-Bris, Goisot 2001. The second course: Herb Crusted “Bouchot” Mussels with Speck Ham, Seasonal Root Vegetables, Parsley and a Saffron Cream A mussel cake positioned in the center of a shallow soup plate was almost floating in a foamy saffron-garlic cream sauce. Root vegetables mounded on the cake were of a deep red color looking gorgeous in contrast with the bright yellow saffron cream. A green stalk of parsley positioned along with the vegetables finished the palette of vibrant colors of this composition. As soon as the plate was in front of me, a pleasant, slightly sweet, spicy and delicate floral odor of saffron penetrated my senses and the earthy, just slightly bitter and somewhat fatty flavor, with a very slight garlicky aftertaste, was such a great background to the herbed and smoky ham and mussels. I enjoyed this dish. Shrimp with Caramelized Cauliflower and Ginger-Gold Apple-Passion Fruit Chutney Three(?) plump shrimp over chutney foam and tiny sprigs of cauliflower were served on a rectangular white plate. A thin slice of green apple topped the shrimp and thinly shaved sprigs of leeks (?) anchored the edifice. This was a very delicate-looking dish, but didn’t seem to move me. No, each element was executed perfectly: shrimp were sweet, meaty, and tender but not mushy; the chutney had the exotic touch of passion fruit and was sweet but not overbearing; and the gold apple brought freshness and light acidity to the dish. It just didn’t work for me in combination, and if I had a chance to replace one course on the tasting menu, my choice would be this one. We drank Bourgogne-Chardonnay “les Herbeux” 2000. The third course: Skate Stuffed with a Girolles Duxelles, Creamy Spinach and a Bordelaise Sauce When thinking of skate with its mild flavor and tender, flaky texture, what comes to mind is raie au beurre noir where the subtle flavor of the delicately poached or sautéed fish in a brown butter sauce with capers isn’t obscured, or how about a skate wing on a purée of cauliflower and potato, which emphasizes the fish sweetness on the palate? Skate in a bordelaise sauce was certainly not a conventional marriage in my recipe books. This course was served in a soup plate where the wing was on a bed of spinach with the rich, dark, blood-colored Bordelaise sauce poured generously over it. A chanterelle mushroom and several pieces of chopped carrot were sketchily tossed around the hill of the fish and a sprig of flat-leaf parsley on top completed the dish. The sauce had a strong beef flavor and was there not to make the most of the naturally sweet, tender and moist skate, but to transform it into a different species. All that was left of the skate as I know it was its texture. Indeed, the texture was fabulous. Gently poached, the skate’s each little finger was bursting with flesh tasting rather like tender meat in combination with the bordelaise sauce. Because of the intensity of the sauce, a Châteauneuf-du-Pape complemented the dish very well. Roasted Arctic Char with Lentils, Fall Root Vegetables, a Tarragon “Royale” and “Sauce Diable” This was one of the most engaging dishes for me. A round piece of a medium-thick arctic char on a bed of lentils comfortably resting in a puddle of thin red-wine sauce with a blob of tarragon royale sauce on top, root vegetables on the side, and a green-colored diable sauce in a separate cup. All elements fit in a large oval dish. The fish had a succulent texture and a very light but distinctive flavor and was moist and buttery. I expected some hot notes in the sauce diable, but the texture was smooth, so was the flavor, and in my opinion it complemented the fish very well. I thought that tarragon royale was a little excessive and that the fish would’ve not lost from having two sauce combinations of just red-wine and diable, but the royale sauce melted quickly on hot surface of the char and bonded with the flesh. Each bite, either separately or in combination with the accompaniments was a symphony of divine tastes. Châteauneuf-du-Pape, Domaine du Vieux Lazaret 2000 was the wine selected to accompany this course. The fourth course: Chestnut Crusted Millbrook Farm Venison with Braised Red Cabbage, a Seckel Pear and Spiced Sweet Potato Purée I was watching impatiently how my consort was consuming the venison until I realized that if I didn’t ask, I wouldn’t get a chance to sample this dish. The answer to my request from this charming and kind man whom I have known for no less than 18 years was, “I think we should stick to our assigned dishes, dear.” I could imagine almost anything, but that venison would be in the middle of our relationship was too much for me to handle, and it wasn’t that I didn’t have anything to offer in return! By the time I was able to rescue this dish from his claws, the pear was gone; therefore my comments will exclude this element. About two inches thick, a log of venison crusted with chestnuts was resting next to the sweet potato puree with firm red cabbage leaves sticking out of the silky mass. A slice of poached pear was just touching the puree, but otherwise was positioned separately on a plate. A touch of brown sauce completed the composition. The meat was cooked almost rare and was extremely lean and tender in texture. Finely chopped blanched chestnuts, in which the venison was rolled, offered a crunch, but unlike other nuts their blandness didn’t disturb the main silky flavor of the meat, and a very subtly spiced sweet-potato puree well complemented the slight gaminess of the venison. Pistachio Crusted Rack of Lamb with Dried Fruit, Saffron and Cinnamon Braised Shoulder and Cumin Chick Pea Fries A thick piece of lamb chop, with a fitting array of vegetables, several dots of dried cranberry and a single thick bar of chickpea fries, was very good. Again, it was the attention to detail of all these marvelous garnishes that caught both my eye and my taste buds. The lamb was encrusted with pistachio flour, which was almost transparent in taste but added to the dark brown exterior of the meat. It was cooked rare, quite appropriately, with a deep, pink-red colored interior that was moist and flawless. The surprise element was the chick pea fry, which felt and tasted like a steak-house fry on the firm outside and offered a smooth, almost custard-like texture on the inside. We drank Château Sociando-Mallet, Haut Medoc 1995 The fifth course (desserts): Mandarin Orange Sorbet Vacherin with Ginger Meringue and Chestnut Ice Cream I was in the mood for a light dessert, and I thought that this course should satisfy my preference. The rounds of striped Ginger Meringue built a sandwich shell for the dessert structure with two levels where sorbet and ice cream were in between. Several pieces of caramelized(?) orange were placed on the side of the plate, and a white chocolate straw leaned against the structure. I think I am missing something in my description, but it is all I can recall. It was barely sweet, very light and had a refreshing effect. However, it wasn’t a dessert that would leave a long-lasting memory. The wine served was Côteaux du Layon-Beaulieu “l’Anclaie”, Ch.Pierre Bise 2000. Dark Chocolate-Caramel Mousse Bombe with Passion Fruit Cream Center and Sauce There were so many emotions attached to this dessert, that I had some difficulties finding the right way to express how exceptional it was. A shiny chocolate ball crowned with a delicate round chocolate cookie and a twisted decorative string of hard chocolate rising in the air was centered on the plate. One perfect caramelized blueberry cut in half was positioned on one side of the plate, and a splash of a bright exotic-green passion fruit sauce with floating fruit seeds on the other. The chocolate-caramel skin of the mousse gave it a glittering-shiny and almost wet effect and was soft, elastic and viscous in texture. The very first bite, wrapping the tongue in the buttery-smooth, velvet fabric of the chocolate mousse was overwhelming. It was simply divine, and forced an uncontrollable sound of satisfaction from both of us. The cloying sweetness of chocolate usually tires my taste buds quickly and the subsequent chocolate bites are not as sharply perceived as the first one. However, with this dessert, each bite only made you want to plunge the spoon into the mousse repeatedly as your senses only sharpened and formed an addiction to experience this pleasure again and again. A surprise came when I reached the middle of the bombe and a white mousse with a bit of acidic passion fruit tang released its gentle sharpness, penetrating the sweet and bitter chocolate flavor. I loved every moment of it, and was disappointed when the dessert was consumed and my plate looked like it had never known the luxury of holding such treasure. I sampled the chocolate mousse with and without the accompanying sauce, and both variations had their charm. We drank Rivesaltes Hors d’Age, Domaine Força Real The finale and culmination of our dinner was a plate of one-bite, tiny, almost artificial-looking ten sweet delights on a long rectangular silver plate. The pastry chef poured the bulk of his creativity into creating this spectacular tray of delights. Each of them was a state-of-the-art little pastry or candy in look and in taste, and if I were to describe all of them, it would take me another ten pages. Instead I’m posting the only picture that we managed to take successfully, which will, I hope, give you an idea. A basket of warm madeleines placed on our table at the end felt like a graduation seal and was the last chapter in this engaging and exciting book, and they were excellent too. One additional note, one of the things worth mentioning, is the bread. A waiter carries a basket full of bread around the room and serves each guest individually. The choices included rustic, garlic, olive, sourdough, nuts and raisins, and three seeds. Olive and sourdough were the best according to our subjective evaluation, but all options provided great quality and perfect taste along with the appropriately soft butter. The service was admirable. With the number of changes of plates and forks, spoons and knives to accommodate the fish and meat courses, it was hard to imagine that the service could be unobtrusive. However, the excellence of execution was such that at times I found myself facing a new set of “tools” on my table without realizing when they were placed. Any attempt to leave the table would be noticed by the staff right away, and you would be helped out and back in again upon your return. You were watched every second of your time without noticing it. I’d suggest that the KGB fellows should go through training at Daniel. Very touching moments occurred when Pascal, our captain, brought us an additional dessert of jellied grapefruit with whipped cream and, at the end of our dinner, Daniel’s regular menu, tasting menus for this season and as of three months ago and whatever additional material they had in-house on all the Boulud restaurants as a souvenir. It was extremely thoughtful and exceptionally nice since I had not requested it. To express my thoughts on Daniel: James Russel Lowell observed that “Talent is that which is in a man’s power; genius is that in whose power a man is.” I know that some of you will tell me: “Wait until you get to Paris…” But for now, I have discovered my Paris at Daniel. Edit: Corrected the second dessert wine, per Bux's kind observation.
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Why is that the case. One could compare them on the basis of innovation creativity, social impact, musical complexity, sonority (sonerousness?), effectiveness of communicating the artist's intent and other criteria I could think of if I took more time. I would not be uncomfortable with such comparisons, despite the differences in genre and audience size. That's like sayng you can't compare the cooking of one chef over another if they cook different items. One might demonstrate a higher level of skill consistently across many dishes, while the other might shine with just one. According to your criteria, which is “innovation creativity, social impact, …complexity, sonority, effectiveness of communicating the artist's intent” you may as well compare the chef with a composer and have a valid answer. It doesn’t address the peculiarities of each genre, however, and therefore is unhelpful in your attempt to assess the market success of these two individuals on a reasonable basis. In other words, if you manage to persuade me that chef Blumenthal is better than Bob Dylan, I’ll consider your point. But I won't hold it against you if you can't and luv ya anyway. “Thanks for making that point.” – Steve P. Thanks for making what point?
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How valid is this comparison in the first place? Dylan and Monteverdi compete in different marketplaces. Comparing Dylan with Monteverdi is identical to comparing folk music with classical music. These are two independent genres, and individual performers can’t possibly be compared aside from a reasonable comparison of the popularity between the two genres as a whole. If you insist on making a statistical comparison, then I’d suggest to narrow it to the criteria set within each genre, that is how many classical music lovers buy Monteverdi, and how many records of Bob Dylan were sold among folk music fans.
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Most of people’s actions are based on certain “assumptions that there is some kind of absolute standard”, i.e. truth, allowing them to create laws, execute trades, and set rules of ethics. Every establishment whether in science, philosophy, music or food is indeed relative to the applicable time. Some scientific discoveries become obsolete and false, ethics change, globalization occurs affecting different cuisines and previous standards extend with time. However, in order to move forward instead of backward, current standards are set in absolutely every sphere of human activity, and food is in no way an exception. Your statement of relativism is based on the assumption that the actual nature of the truth is the truth of beliefs. However, the truth or falsehood, for that matter, of a given judgment depends in no way upon the person judging, but solely upon the facts about which he judges. For instance if you were presented with two desserts, a plum-tart and a gooseberry-tart, and stated that a plum-tart is insufficiently sweet whereas a gooseberry-tart is just right, you will be expressing the truth of your belief, but in no way stating the truth because a plum-tart was prepared with a cup of sugar whereas the gooseberry-tart with a half-cup only. Now, the consequently logical question should be why we think that a cup of sugar will taste sweeter then a half-cup of sugar. According to your theory, we should say that we don’t, that no one can really tell the difference because it is all relative to the individual perception. According to my theory and what I believe Steve is trying to prove, the answer will be based on the fact that the majority of people who conducted this experiment came to the conclusion that the amount of sugar utilized effects its taste, and though this conclusion is still based on personal perception (I am assuming no scientific experiments), it becomes a fact and a standard based on which we can distinguish whether a person is right in his evaluation or wrong. Stating that there are no standards in music is fallacious. There are so many standards in classical music, for instance, that a group of experts can easily determine even a slight deviation from the standard in one’s performance. In such a case, this musical interpretation or performance will never be considered “better” even if liked by an individual with less proficiency in the art. It is only when a composer decides to pass full power to a performer to express his own perception of the particular musical phrase that the composer, for example, uses the musical term “tempo rubato” (a subtle fluctuation of tempo for expressive purposes) and the performer is judged according to a subjective standard.
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Congratulations to Jonathan for surgically extracting a useful idea from the inflated verbiage of this thread. Persistence has its rewards. What I fail to see is where in the “inflated verbiage of this thread” objectivity was opposed to reasonableness. As a matter of fact, isn’t it what objectivity (“not influenced by personal feelings, interpretation, prejudice; based on fact; unbiased” – Webster) represents: “agreeable to sound judgment and logic” - Webster? Reasonableness and objectivity are close in their definition, and therefore provide little contrast in comparison.
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No, the main reason we are here is to evaluate whether price properly represents the merits of food. Others would be interested in whether price corresponds with the merits of décor, for instance. A bargain or “advantaged purchase, one acquired at less than the usual cost”(Webster) represents a price that needs to be corrected and is the reverse of overpricing. QA personnel in any industry also represent consumers, though they are working for the industry. It is their responsibility to find irregularities with the product to be corrected for the ultimate consumers’ satisfaction. Some restaurants even employ critics to provide an assessment of the restaurants’ performance undercover. However, whether the critics are directly employed by the food industry or not, their role is identical to the QA department and consequently results or should result in the improvement of the food industry as well as the consumers’ satisfaction. But one of the elements of price is based on the “‘objective‘ assessments of other posters on this site” and people contributing to the restaurant business, that is, demand. As of today, pricing is the only system that allows us to function properly in our society in order to perform more or less equal exchange. All money represents is just another product that is supposedly of the same value as the product you are attempting to buy. In a barter economy, bread would be exchanged for milk, for instance. However, price is not a static entity, nor it is always properly assessed; therefore, mispricing is followed by a subsequent price correction, the purpose of which is to achieve a fair exchange.
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Being unable to afford a product is different from being “not prepared” to buy it. It doesn’t indicate preference, it indicates financial impotence. Considering that taste can be developed due to the intake of high-quality food, I can’t imagine that a person buying meat for any reason, including purely for the sake of prestige, wouldn’t be able to blind taste Kobe against inferior beef and tell the difference. Price includes a collective assessment of the product, though it may deviate due to some external factors that take priority in calculating the price. The price may not even be represented properly, but it will at some point be corrected. However, it is the only available system allowing us to objectively assess products. It will rarely happen that a $10 wine will be of the same quality as a $100 wine. Being able to afford both wines, if the preference of the person lies with a $10 wine, then the position of dismissing the price as an approximate objective standard becomes “intellectually irrational” and naïve. Attempts to find fallacies in the existing approach seem to divert attention toward either 1) class warfare; or 2) an inability to distinguish excellent from good and bad.
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Jonathan, price is not equal to merit. Price includes merit as one of its many components where merit may not even be the main constituent in shaping the price. For instance, lack of competition or high rental space may boost the price of the restaurant’s food beyond the merits of the actual food served. However, more often than not price is an indicator of the merit of the product, and choosing an item with a higher price tag, if you are not interested in performing an extensive research to find a bargain, should result in a better satisfaction. Frankly, I think it is hard not to agree with this statement. You do need critics and restaurant guides to distinguish how well the merit was represented by its price. You could consider critics as quality assurance employees for the food industry. For products more tangible than food, QA is usually performed once before the product is released. Food, however, requires constant evaluation and supervision.
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Opinion is used to refer to matters of taste, belief and judgment. However, it depends on what definition of opinion you have in mind. For example, you may ask a friend about your new car to which he would reply that it is ugly. In this case, it would be foolish not to challenge his opinion, for it’s obvious that by opinion he means his personal preference. What you disregard is another use of opinion which is based on objective judgment and which forms standards that are there to follow, accept and learn from. For instance, consider when the Supreme Court has delivered its opinion in a controversial case. Obviously the justices did not state their personal preferences, their mere likes and dislikes. They stated their considered judgment at which they arrived after thorough inquiry and deliberation. Their decision was based on following certain standards, rules and regulations that allowed them to achieve a judgment that can be objectively validated. The same pertains to the process of establishing standards of what is considered to be “good” or not so good based on objective judgment through extensive inquiry and deliberation of experts. It is not a personal preference; it is an objective judgment. macrosan, I was extremely impressed by your pedantry, where there is apparently no fret of wasting your time on counting words. Whether Weightwatchers believes that the ripe fruit is not good because it is not tasty or just not good for them for other reasons, it still falls under the category of a personal preference where the reason for their dismissal of the ripe fruit is irrelevant and in no way affects the actual value of the ripe fruit which is evaluated through an objective judgment. As to personal preferences and opinions, in Great Britain, for instance, there is still a Flat Earth Society. As the name implies, the members of this organization believe that the earth is not spherical but flat. Each of us is free to take as bizarre a position as we please about any matter we choose. When the telephone operator announces that it’ll be ninety-five cents for the first three minutes, you may respond that it won’t, and that it’ll be twenty-eight cents. Being free to hold an opinion and express it doesn’t, of course, guarantee favorable consequences. The operator may hang up on you. I would certainly agree with this statement had the dessert menu included different categories like Raw fruit with the items underneath it: Ripe fruit or Not Ripe fruit. However, since the dessert menu includes no categories whatsoever and rather consists of Ripe fruit or Poached fruit placed side by side, we are by default obliged to compare these two categories in assessing “Dessert” menus to evaluate which is the better of two options. According to general economic and market analysis, consumer perception links price with value. The connection between the price and the value may differ depending on the product; however, more often than not a free product carries little value whereas an expensive product carries more value. From the economic perspective, price is usually taken to be the amount of money that is paid when a service is provided or the product is purchased. Value is something of worth to someone which can often be determined by the price that the person is prepared to pay to obtain that value. This is generally known as sales value. Considering that Webster definition of the word “value” is “…worth, merit or importance,” I assume “good” is one of the merit’s properties and therefore can be determined by price. Moreover, in an attempt to establish a standard in assessing the product, price is the best tool as it takes into the consideration both the cost and the demand to establish an objective judgment of the worth of the product independently from some individual preferences.
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Of course “good” is a relative word when it is perceived on an individual level or applied to different situations. However, would the price of the “ripe fruit” be changed because it was said not to be good by the Weightwatchers? It wouldn’t because a set of experts decided that the “ripe fruit” is better based on their expertise, and it was priced appropriately according to the market demand, which means that there was an objective measurement set to identify the value of this product. The situation could be reversed only under one circumstance: if the majority of the population would become weightwatchers and refuse to buy the ripe fruit. Then there would be a different set of experts rendering a different opinion and setting new objective standards. Therefore the question is whether “objective standards” are subjective, and the answer is that they are as they pertain only to a specific location and timeframe. For now, however, the “ripe fruit” is objectively “good” whether Weightwatchers likes it or not.
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One of the criteria by which we are able to exercise a fair comparison of different products is our ability to evaluate these products based on a certain set of rules and common sense. To produce a cooked, sauced peach requires not only more time, but also a certain level of execution to achieve technical perfection of the end-result and satisfy the taste of experts whose experience lies in tasting poached peaches day and night and whose expertise is such that it will allow them to appraise the product accordingly with placing a price tag. Therefore, complex as a stand-alone definition may not be valid in assuming better; however, complex to achieve a satisfactory taste confirmed, without doubts, by experts, where an additional effort is involved and other auxiliary elements are taken into the consideration like scarcity of the raw material or uniqueness of the recipe, falls under the category of “better.” As an example of a reverse complex effect, traditionally Russians preferred consuming warm caviar; whereas the French proved that by artificially warming caviar, it loses some texture. An additional effort bringing minimal complexity to the dish resulted in a failure to maximize the flavor of the product and therefore failed to be the best presentation. Therefore, on an objective level, warm caviar is simply not the best though a preferred (on the subjective level) way of consumption for Russians. What it tells you is that there are some objective measurements allowing us to evaluate the product by setting a price for it, for instance. Any form of economy, whether barter or capitalist (aside from socialist), allows us to make a fair exchange based on what we consider to be the best. A collective subjective opinion of experts turns into an objective standard within one region and a specific timeframe, and therefore allows the evaluated items to obtain a reputation of their own. It is then when the objective standards assigned to the item are separated from other people’s subjective perception of it, and it is that objective measurements that one should strive to understand and look up to, where the process is called a learning curve. Everything else is subjective. Your not liking a poached peach dessert is subjective, but it doesn’t change the fact that poached peach is better than the fresh fruit. In other words, your liking of the item is subjective; the item value is not. Your comparison is invalid as it simply compares apples and oranges. For an argument to be applicable, the conclusion must follow logically from the premises where the premise in this particular case would represent a fruit of the same origin or one painting vs. another painting or a spectacular sunrise in Alaska vs. one in Hawaii. Otherwise, “in logic class, we call that” (JAZ) a straw man where, as the term implies, the straw man is an argument without substance.
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A highly perceptive eGer was highly affected by the aesthetics at Otto along with the highly developed symbolic communication expressed through “mms” and “yums” of her highly valued companion. For antipasti, we chose the seafood grande option which, as was explained to us by our wonderful waitress, referred not to the size of the selected individual dish, but rather to a smaller portion of every option under their Fish Antipasti entry which included swordfish, octopus, anchovies, scungilli, and mussels. The order came in small red cups positioned cozily on a tray (see FG pictures earlier in this thread.) Cured Swordfish with lemon juice and deeply fried onions with a little olive oil at the bottom of a cup was exceptional: tender, with a perfect proportion of saltiness and lemon acid. Octopus in a spicy marinara-like sauce was delicious: the meat was delicate and the sauce had a little spice that didn’t overwhelm the tender flesh. The real surprise was their special frito: deep fried smelt with fried basil leaves and fried lemon rind. Golden brown and crispy, the fish was excellent. When we finally got to pizzas, I realized that if I ever visit a new place again, I am not going to read Cabby’s reviews. It started even earlier with anchovies. I couldn’t properly enjoy the food but rather processed Cabby’s description of each little detail of the dish, following her logic by deconstructing pieces into particles, molecules and other bits invisible to human eyes. I concur with Cabby that the “anchovies tasted good,” that the “bread was crusty and had been soaked heavily in olive oil” and that the bread “was not inappropriate with the anchovies.” However, when the time came to sample pizzas, all I had in mind was “pita bread.” I thought it was an excellent comparison. Though when hot, the crust was not so obviously reminiscent of a pita bread, it became more so upon cooling. The thinness of the crust was quite attractive, and the fresh topping ingredients offset the crust‘s blandness; however, I agree with Cabrales that “near the edges there was a noticeable dry aspect that [could be] found to be a problem” considering that the crust as a stand-alone element of the dish was not flavorsome enough and quite dry. I have yet to sample an authentic Neapolitan-style pizza, and perhaps I won’t favor this genre; however, both jaybee and I concluded that if ever we returned, it would be for their antipasti and specials with perhaps just one pizza order as a side dish. The service was wonderful. We felt well-pampered by every crew member stopping by our table. In fact, we had to inquire several times about our gelatos as we kept forgetting which was which, and every time we were provided with a patient, informative answer . One complaint made earlier by Cabrales was that they don’t serve gelato in different serving plates, but rather position two different types in one plate side by side. The problem was that the scoops of gelato started melting pretty quickly, mixing the flavors. It didn’t seem to make any sense, and we pointed that out to our wonderful waitress who assured us that she would deliver the message to the kitchen as they still collecting people’s opinions. Among the gelatos, olive oil was the most interesting one to me. The taste of olive oil was almost transparent, but was detectible upon taking the first couple of spoons until your taste buds were no longer sensitive to a new flavor. I did think, however, that it had a goat cheese aftertaste as well. As peculiar as it sounds, I didn’t find the flavor offensive, but rather interesting and pleasurable. Overall, the lunch was a complete delight which was certainly aided by the wit and fun of my companion.
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It is interesting to note that photography was in the position of being questioned as to whether it did or did not fall under the category of art not so long ago. The original assumption was based on an impression that art had to be difficult. With its increasing ease and universality, how could photography be an art? Photographers, who conceived their art in the chemists’s laboratory, envied the mystique of the artist’s studio. Bernard Shaw was only one of not many who declared that “if you cannot see at a glance that the old game is up that the camera has hopelessly beaten the pencil and paint-brush as an instrument of artistic representation, then you will never make a true critic: you are only like most critics, a picture fancier…Some day the camera will do all the work of Velasquez and Peter de Hooghe, colour and all.” It is only when the viewer was ready to accept and notice the complexity achieved by simple tools or shift his attention from the general perception of viewing it as just a useful, convenient and a necessary accessory in life that photography was elevated to the rank of being an art. Food may be going through the same stage of acceptance from being a necessity to becoming an entertainment and toward a more demanding public looking for a statement in cuisine rather than just a satisfying and comforting meal. When the public is ready, then real critics will be born. Otherwise, it is still at the stage of entertainment. I disagree with this statement. When people of tremendous intellectual power lose their ability to control their body to be in sync with their thoughts and soul, when time, though beautifully imprinting the life story of each day in each wrinkle, deprives one of the ability to express his power through simple motion, then the only place the person is still young and alive, is full of hope and that intellectual power is his eyes. It is simply a discrepancy between these eyes and their old, wrinkled, feeble faces that can mislead one into seeing weakness where there always been strength. Edit: Typo corrected to make jaybee look silly.
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Any reference to “law” assumes rules and regulations that effect our decision-making and consequently our morality. Simply accepting God’s laws with the comfort of no inquiry is a legalistic approach where principles, codified in rules, are not merely guidelines or maxims to illuminate the situation; they are directives to be followed. In fact, Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism -- all major Western religious traditions have been legalistic. The ancient Jews, living by the law, or Torah, and its oral tradition (halakah) had a code of 613 (or 621) precepts, amplified by an increasingly complicated mass of Mishnaic interpretations and applications. Since statutory and code law inevitably pile up, ruling upon ruling, because of the complications of life, they result in accumulating an elaborate system of exceptions and compromises in the form or rules for breaking rules. The complications of taking God’s laws, interpreting them to satisfy the situational conditions of contemporary life, and moreover following these laws resulted in the fact that Reform and even Conservative Jews have been driven to disentangle themselves from it. I am not even touching extremes in following God’s laws which resulted in burning at the stake in the Middle Ages, because following your rationale, belief in God’s laws requires the legalist, even though he may be truly sorry, to still cry, “Fiat justitia, ruat caelum!” (Do the “right” even if the sky falls). Or the sacrifice of children, as it was practiced in Canaan and in Carthage down to its destruction by the Romans in the third century BC. Quite obviously we deal here with a religious motivation that is stronger than even the love for the child. The man in such a culture is completely devoted to his religious system, or in other words proclaims that “they are God’s laws”, and he is not cruel, even though he appears so to a person outside this system. Or as Cardinal Newman said, “The Church holds that it were better for the sun and moon to drop from heaven, for the earth to fail, and for all the many millions who are upon it to die of starvation in extremist agony… than that one soul, I will not say should be lost, but should commit one single venial sin.” Therefore the problem with eating pork, for instance, is nothing more and nothing less than hanging on to certain eternally invariable rules of conduct as absolutely valid and universally obliging regardless of the situation, believing that there are some things, allegedly learned directly from God, that are always right or always wrong. And if you refuse to give intrinsic validity to moral principles, you are assumed to have none, instead of considering the premise that “circumstances alter rules and principles.” It is said that when Gertrude Stein lay dying she declared, “It is better to ask questions than to give answers, even good answers.” It is not only about breaking God’s laws. It is about adjusting or interpreting them according to a changing environment. It is about the practical temper of the active, verb-minded decision maker, versus contemplative noun-mindedness.
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My understanding of etiquette extends beyond the notion of the practical beliefs an individual himself entertains or the way he feels about certain kinds of conduct. Assuming that etiquette represents not only a prescribed routine that is "passed down," but also values characterizing different societies, it is set as a behavioral standard to which one should strive to adhere. It doesn't discard the fact that ethical judgments are relative to different cultures and doesn't pass a unified judgment on people in the subcontinent who eat with their fingers vs. westerners who prefer spoons and forks. In other words, etiquette is to some extent a part of our ethics and is valid only within the certain timeframe and borders. However, it is not to be interpreted by each individual, it is to be followed or not followed. In 1836, one of the books on etiquette had a brilliant definition stating that "etiquette is the barrier which society draws around itself as a protection against offenses the "law" cannot touch." Neither I nor other members were able to find any official proof making an exception on account of hot dishes and missing dining companions. Therefore, it would be sensible to agree that the evidence presented by Fat Guy is a valid rule of etiquette as it is written today. However, considering that certain ethics undergo constant change and that the change becomes registered only after it has been spread and generally accepted by the majority, I think it is worthwhile to question the validity of the existing official rule. My major thought is derived from the principle of etiquette as being the measure of one's "consideration for the feelings of others - Fat Guy." The act of eating is a physical process that involves chewing, swallowing, and other unpleasant operations that to some extent may be disturbing to observe. When both parties are involved in the process, they are equal in their disadvantage; however, when one party is finished and the other is not, I can't imagine where the comfortable part comes into play. It also would detract from the smooth conversation flow, as the diner who finished first wouldn't probably want to interrupt his companion. On the other hand, the diner who is behind may feel uncomfortable keeping his companion waiting for him to finish. I am struggling to find a rationale other than pure food appreciation to justify the etiquette rule discussed, and I am simply failing to find one. If the purpose is not to place diners in a situation where neither of them would feel uncomfortable, my assumption would be that waiting is preferable.
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I’d be inclined to be a little more straightforward by stating that it was rather a frustrating gastronomic experience that didn’t even deserve the precise and detailed description Jaybee kindly provided. Not only was the daube dry and bland, it was as if it was prepared a week in advance, left to dry out on a surface for a while, and then frozen to be served as needed. I wasn’t as fortunate as Jaybee to find apples in my croustade and did seriously wonder whether I heard correctly when the menu was announced that the dessert would indeed be an apple croustade. However, the chestnuts though, as Nina mentioned, not uniformly cooked, when done right were quite enjoyable: firm and crunchy, with a smoky flavor from the wood fire that slightly offset their sweetness. It was quite disappointing, as Arianne was a wonderful hostess who created a sense of community by organizing several competitions/games involving chestnuts with appealing prizes of Dartagnan products. In fact, one of our companions was infected by the spirit of the competition, involving cleaning and eating certain number of chestnuts in the shortest period of time, to the extent that the rest of us at our table simply stopped just to watch the precision with which she meticulously and fiercely proceeded with the process of cleaning chestnuts, placing as many as fit into her mouth, and consuming them with incredible speed. The seriousness and passion with which she approached the task was truly commendable! Well, we were almost there, but unfortunately and unfairly runner-ups were not given prizes. Sometimes I wonder whether the amount of fun derived is inversely proportional to the quality of the food. P.S. Jaybee, I won’t rest until I publicly apologize for stealing your fork, though I may suggest that it was your own fault to place it to the right of your plate, which happened to be my left side! (Not that I.. "use [my] knowledge of which fork to use as a way of maintaining a social hierarchy, [and thus] have bad manners" – Fat Guy.) I am afraid I’ll have to point you toward the etiquette thread now. :raz:
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Or making a toast. Clinking the glasses had the purpose of sloshing the drinks together on impact as a precautionary measure to avoid being poisoned by one of your friends. Therefore, the fate prepared for the friend would be shared by oneself as well. These days, aggression is served up more impersonally, through auditors and attorneys. There are two etiquette approaches to consider when not dining alone. One relates directly to purely gastronomic practices as described by Cabrales and the other is attributed to social manners that may be no less important depending on the purpose of the dinner. Dining with a companion when a social function is the center of the event (a business dinner or a date) places certain obligations on you not only to make your companion feel comfortable, but also to avoid awkwardness when the business or other matters are discussed. I am not sure whether your companion will feel more uncomfortable knowing that you had to wait for him to start the meal or feeling a stare while he continues sipping the soup at the time others are finished. If the person were sensitive, his reaction could be not to finish the soup, which in an extreme situation may result in his finishing business with you instead. Who would want that? This is a perfect example of common sense employed in building social etiquette. It is pretty much the same as not asking a person personal questions on the first day of acquaintance. Not serving the food simultaneously to all diners is a mistake and should be considered the responsibility of the restaurant. If an error is made, you have the choice to complain and request a service correction from the restaurant, to disregard your companion and proceed alone, or to sacrifice the quality of the dish to show a certain respect and solidarity to your dining companion. Your choice.
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Previously there were several threads discussing the concept of whether a restaurant’s performance differs and to what extent if it does when a reviewer/”special guest” is identified by the restaurant staff. If the general consensus is that at a top-end restaurant the difference will not and should not be dramatic, then Blue Hill simply doesn’t fall under that category, which would’ve been all right had it honestly been conveyed by members whose experience was favorable due to their patronage and a “shifting the gears” practice. If the main purpose of the discussion is how to get the best meal out of a restaurant, then carping about the quality of on-menu meals is immaterial. However, if the purpose is to get an objective review of a restaurant based on a typical meal, then Blue Hill fails to fit the criteria for a place to return for many members. No one argues that Blue Hill has potential and may serve an extraordinary meal on occasion or as a result of a special order; however, it has never been explicitly stated previously that all prior praise is irrelevant unless evaluated from a completely different perspective where the quality of the meal depends upon how well you know the chef or how well you can “shift the gears.” That is where the frustration of certain members comes from. Moreover, I’d say that a restaurant should be a business and trying to sell yesterday’s salmon may not be a wise business decision if it will turn a potential patron away from the restaurant and will affect his decision to never return. Assuming that Blue Hill exercises the approach of “as little intervention in the cooking process as possible” where the quality of the ingredients play a critical part, it is the responsibility of the chefs to design a menu that guides all diners toward full appreciation of the chef’s efforts. In other words, as much responsibility as one can put on the shoulders of a connoisseur to strive for the best available experience, it is also the responsibility of the chefs to provide the best possible menu arrangement to achieve maximum appreciation.
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Have you ever wondered whether being on a diet intensifies your senses to the extent of distorting the real taste of something generally excluded from your regular dining regimen? That the possibility of sampling a forbidden food overwhelms you so much that you are no longer qualified to judge its quality? I am not quite sure whether my low-carb, sugar-free diet affected my judgment or the bread was really fabulous, but at the end of our “long leisurely lunch” my mind was still replaying little delights provoked by the bread, crusty on the outside and so light and airy on the inside. The bread made this satisfying crunchy noise upon being broken and didn’t even seem to turn soggy when in the mouth. It had no salt, but the butter served was salty and complemented the bread quite well. As we subconsciously evaluate one another upon rare meetings (sort of: he looks good, she got older, I see an extra wrinkle etc.), sometimes when expressing our concern we may reveal our mental notes to our dining companion. “It seems that you’ve lost weight. Have you been starving yourself?” asked Jaybee as soon as we were seated. He had no idea that he just gave me a ticket to indulge myself in as much of that wonderful bread as I could fit in my stomach. Four rolls in the basket were split three for me and one for Jaybee. However, by the time he finished half of his one roll, I was already done with my share and was piercing Jaybee’s other half with a look that clearly stated “I think you should be a gentleman now and share the rest with me.” Well, the test showed that Jaybee is a perfect gentleman. The mixed Seafood antipasto was very good indeed: delicious and tender shrimp, mussels, and calamari in a light lemon and olive oil juice with just a touch of a sardine flavor. Linguini Alla Mare in a delicate white wine (maybe lemon as well) garlic sauce thickened with butter was scrumptious. Perhaps I would prefer the pasta to be done just a tiny little more al dente, but the quality of the pasta was so good that it compensated for whatever preferences I’d normally have. I second Jaybee‘s evaluation of the veal cutlet Milanese. I didn’t care much for that entrée. It did seem to be overcooked and if not for the lemon juice that added a certain tenderness and flavor to it, it could be ranked, using my kitchen vocabulary, as being just a little better then a “shoe sole.” Diet aside, two things add a certain level of fulfillment to my dining experience: 1) perfect bread in the beginning of my journey and 2) a perfect dessert at the end. At the recommendation of our perky waitress, we selected cannolis to share. I do have to admit that this was the best version I’ve ever tried, and I would go back there only for cannolis. Two perfect pastries were surrounded by a very thin blueberry sauce with a couple of berries topping them. The pastry shell was crisp and delicate at the same time and literally snapped in your mouth, the filling smooth and the blueberry sauce light and delicious. What was nice is that we weren’t rushed by the service staff and eventually spent about four hours in the restaurant. What can you talk about for 4 hours? Let’s see. We talked about this and that, and when we were tired talking about that we went back to this.
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Suzanne, soft-shell crabs were what attracted me to New York Noodle Town originally, and for several years I enjoyed the superb execution: very delicately crusted creatures were cooked crisp and until medium brown. The starch was almost transparent and added a special crunch without interfering with the taste of the crabs. In fact, their salt-baked preparation technique was so good that the seafood combination was no less delightful when the crabs were sold out. However, it seemed that they’ve changed their approach and the sogginess we observed this time has been persistent for about a year. That, actually, was one of the reasons we discarded our loyalty to the place during the soft-shell season this year. If you don’t order duck separately, the preparation requires duck to be sautéed along with the flowering chives which takes the crispiness away and adds some moisture to the meat. The dish also has a light sauce. In my opinion, it is just a matter of preference. I did like, however, the smoky taste the flowering chives acquired from being married to duck. My recollection of the casserole could’ve been influenced by the fact that we were quite full at the time. However, I just didn’t think that the dish added any new flavors to our order. Though the sizzling effect was quite pleasing, I thought that chicken was a little gamy (though my companions may disagree) and the brown starch sauce used in a preparation seemed too similar to the duck dish we had earlier. But again, that is only if you want to be picky; otherwise, the dish was quite comforting. Thank you for the suggestion of Chinese sausages and taro. As for philosophy and the baby pig, as they say: “The truth is out there.”
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At the time one is puzzled by the perplexing question of the first Creation of the earth and of man, or troubled about the sources of defeat or victory and success or catastrophe in the Iliad and the Odyssey, some of us are simply pursuing a passion toward the baby pig. Of several conversations I had with Ms. X (an eGullet dining companion), there was none that did not contain a reference to the baby pig she recently tried at New York Noodle Town. Well, since Montaigne wisely noted that among three classes of philosophers (those who claim to have found the truth; those who deny that truth can be found; and those who confess their ignorance and go on searching) only the last are wise, we decided to pursue our search for the truth about the perfect baby pig by setting a lunch date to be held at New York Noodle Town. Using self-exploration to help illuminate the world may be quite noble in some instances but very disturbing in others. In my case, not taking into consideration the late hour we set for the lunch and leaving the house with nothing but three grapes consumed in a hurry, which added to a quite elaborate symphony successfully conducted by my stomach while passing by China town’s cozy little restaurants and cafés with their enticing smells teasing my senses with the provocative images of delightful and tempting food, wasn’t very smart. Well, the good thing about the bad thing is that everything comes to an end, and, in my case, it was the end of my sufferings as soon as the three of us were seated at a cozy table for four. “I am so hungry! All I had today were three grapes,” said Ms. X while browsing the menu. If one could ever think of a better time to start believing in fate or telepathy or any other weird stuff, that certainly was a good one. Not just any hunger, but the “hunger of three grapes” and the thoughts of the baby pig added a communal sense, and bonded us for life. We ordered: Barbecued baby pig Salt baked seafood combination Roast duck with flowering chives Sizzling casserole with chicken and Chinese sausage The baby pig served at room temperature was certainly a star. A nearly perfect execution of crisp skin and tender baby flesh provoked no less than cute little sounds of satisfaction exchanged among us all, not overlapping but rather creating a perfect harmony. The meat was a little tiny bit too salty for me, but again, I may just be a supertaster. The salt baked seafood combination wasn't as good as I remembered it from two years ago. More or less crisp while still hot, it turned soggy upon cooling, like a balloon losing air. The roast duck with flowering chives was very good indeed. Not as crisp as it would’ve been had we ordered duck separately from the chives, the meat was very tender and added a certain ducky flavor to the chives that was definitely worth trying. What I liked the most was that the dish was not overwhelmed with the flavor of the brown starch sauce, contrary to what we had at New Lok Kee in Flushing. The sizzling casserole was quite sizzling when it was brought to our table. We all agreed that it wasn’t spectacular, but pretty good. To be fair, though, we were quite full by that time. I’ll let others chime in with more details. Overall, the food made us happy, and that is probably the best praise one can give. As to Montaigne, he was wrong. We did find the truth about the perfect baby pig in New York Noodle Town.
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Food and music share the same function, i.e. to provide aesthetic satisfaction and are much closer to each other than food and art or literature, for instance. Dining is a sensual pleasure; so is music. “You can’t serve rotten, moldy food” and appreciate it exactly the same way that you can’t listen to squeaky doors or wailing alley cats and call it “good music” because both food and music directly affect our senses, not just our intellect and emotions. I could concur that art and literature, in an attempt to convey reality or surrealism, may encompass terrifying images and still provoke a sense of artistic aesthetic; however, music and food require a certain sensual satisfaction before stimulating any intellectual or emotional response. Therefore, it seems that the question of whether Gagnier as an innovator is reaching the boundary of his communication link with diners by establishing a new perception of food is legitimately compared to the struggle between Stravinsky and his audience. That's because I don’t speak American backslang. :raz: