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Thank you all, including Doodad! Right now I'm too much busy to take part in my own discussion, but yours is most helpful! I'll come back.

Does anyone know old Scottish cookboks from the period 1840-1920, which are worth mentioning? (Works about British cookbooks as historical sources are also of interest.)

This seems to cover the most. Good! Thanks!

The word pepper refers to a wide range of spices and ingredients, though I suppose the origin is related to the peppercorns of the original Southern Indian piper nigrum. (correct me if I'm wrong)Thereafter the world became familiar with the hotter of the American pepper fruits, like jalapeno, chili, and cayenne. We have a diversity of names and,I suppose, of flavors. But I think it is difficult to find words for the different members of the large "pepper family". Could anyone help me with the basic differences and interesting shades?

Now you make me want to drink Japanese again! Just one more question: When you talk of green tea and shibui; is that just about taste/sensation or does also the cultural-aesthetical dimension of the word join in? (or maybe this is a question that doesn't make sense, I feel I make the tea a little complicated)

I get a feeling that Okinawa is the place to go to feel bitterness!

I suppose beer is a little nigai? We do have a Norwegian word (stram) that might be used the same ways as astringent, but few people are aware of the distinction.

Interesting and fascinating! I actually wondered if there was a connection between the love of umami and the attitude towards bitterness.

Inspired by the beer part of the nomimono thread I have a question. What part does bitter taste play in Japanese food and drinking? I think the natural thing for human beings is to avoid bitterness. Still, in “Western” food culture we have a quite lot of popular food stuffs and drinks with bitter elements – including some wines and of course beer and coffee. Do we find bitterness also in typical Japanese products or traditions?

Thank you, both of you. And yes, I was right: this was the right place to go to get an understanding of this. By the way; I suppose unclean water in the West must have been more of a problem in cities and some villages than in the countryside. Personally I drink water directly from creeks, rivers, lakes and springs several times every season. But not everywhere of course.

I remember I used to replace white wine with lemon or lemon and water when making steamed mussels (with onion and or garlic)

Barley tea? I thought barley was a new thing in Japan. Have you tasted it?

Thank you, Hiroyuki, you're my saviour as so many times before! I get the impression that quite a lot of the old drinking was hot. Is it so? Yes, a long time since I was here. Suppose I must have been somehwere else. Hope so:-) Now I actually consider a text about Mr. William Copeland, the Norwegian borne American who established the forerunner of Kirin. But there will be a lot of fog to cut through to understand his life and deeds. No matter what: so nice to see you are still here - and all the other as well!

You make me miss Japanese soft drinks so... But what were the Japanese actually drinking before the beer, the dairy products and the soft drinks industry. Hot sake and hotter tea? I do not intend to turn this into tea or sake history.I just wonder what was common before. Basically tea? Did they drink water? Also in Edo?

Anyone whos is familiar with the alchol chapter of McWilliams: "A revolution in eating" - or the early history of alcohol at the American frontier some centuries ago. I am going to have a little speech in our local whisky society (In Norway). I have read this (fascinating) chapter long time ago, but I don't remember anymore, and I haven't managed to get hold of the book in time. Subjects of interest are: the spread of rum, the introduction of brandy, of corn, what they served in the first taverns. My intention is to find a link between the story of "drinking at the frontier" and the first US whiskey. (Sorry for my Norwegian)

I feel that I haven't done very much more than flying and landing since we lunched in Tokyo. While you have created all this! Now I just had to add a new thanks for the yummilunch in Nezu. My whole trip turned out to be a little stressful, but the Kushi-age and Blue Moon took care of me. Hantei in Nezu was the right place to be then, but nothings lasts forever, and tasty blogs are good substitutes.

Very basically, fish have two broad types of muscle, light and dark. Different types of fish have different ratios of dark to light, depending on the activity of the fish. Light muscle is good for fast and short duration movements, while dark muscle is good for sustained movement. So cod has very little dark muscle, where as herring and mackeral approaches 50%. In the light muscle, the energy source is mainly is glycogen, whereas the dark muscle may also use lipids, which are broken down by powerful oxidizing enzymes. The breakdown products of these lipids are what can give a characteristic "fishy" flavour, and the problem for storage of much of these fish is that the lipids oxidize even when cold stored. Smoking and saltiing may be one way of reducing oxidation. ← What a splendid lecture! Still I want to stress that dark or greyish fish also have qualities to appreciate(at least if you're used to them) And isn't it so that tuna belong to the same group?

I see your point. And I'm not thjat sure about my own. It's just the impression I have got from a few visiits, from some reading and from talkin with people who sell fish to USA and the rest of the world. Yet, salmon is a very special fish because of the colour, size and maybe the status among the first Americans. - and even maybe because of the taste, which I find milder than mackerel. On the other hand tuna isn't red. Is tuna generally approved?

In Norway a hot fish cake in the hand is a good traditional one. Today the producers try to make fish burgers to survive. In Japan there are a lot of surimi seafood varieties that could be reckoned as fast food(like chikuwa, surimi sausage and agemono) But acually there are fast food elements in the history and world of sushi as well.

I realize it's a little vague question. But I'm talking of well treated quality fish. And amazinlgy it seems that my point was taken. To give an example; In Northern Brazil they like salted, dried saithe which has a quite stingy taste that match the heat and the pepper that is also common. In USA I think they would prefer more bland species like pollock, haddock or tilapia. I just wanted to check if my observation is correct and to see if there is any possible explanation.

Fish is fished, sold and eaten all over the world, yet the preferences vary and lot. I get the impression that some cultures/regions/nations actually like the fish taste, while others stick to fish that actually doesn't taste fishy at all.(like pollock) If it is possible to say something general about USA, I have the impression that the Americans avoid the flavour. But I'm not sure if it counts for all of USA and what the reason could be. Any opinions about this?

I'm not sure if the kamaboko thread now has been stretched close to the limit. But I have heard there is a new book about surim-kamaboko history written by Tsuji Masaji in Suisan Times(in Japanese of course). Does anyone know this or where it is possible to get it?

Does that mean that you grew up with kamaboko? Or is this a new love?