MarketStEl

(emphasis added) Bars? You mean to tell me that Minnesotans are a bunch of alcoholics? BTW and FWIW, it's not a black gathering without macaroni and cheese.

Now this is interesting, I guess... I add my contribution and then go off to lunch in the dining hall (see my foodblog for a description of the place). Today's featured entrée was baked flounder. This was the first honest-to-God dud I've eaten in Widener's dining hall. The fish fillet came with a coating of Cor-Ten steel (okay, it wasn't really that dark rusty color distinctive to this pre-oxidized variety, but the breading was that hard and difficult to cut through) and had been baked until it was about as dry as Phoenix in the summer. Now, dining hall fare is not quite the same as banquet or business-event fare--it's usually a notch or two lower on the execution scale, or the quality-of-ingredients scale, or both; besides, it also has to be a lot more varied across time than standard banquet fare because the same people are going to eat this stuff day after day after day. But it does share with banquet fare a need to be inoffensive--that is, it must appeal to as wide a range of palates as possible. And both are produced in mass quantities during a narrow time window. I'd suggest, then, that this sort of institutional fare is a close cousin of the sort of food we're talking about here--maybe even more so because--as has been suggested about fish dishes already--the food itself tends to be either bland, or indifferently executed, or of only decent quality, or some combination of the foregoing. I know Aramark does catering as part of its business--it has to if it is going to be a total food service provider to its customers. Maybe someone out there who's sat down to an Aramark-catered business lunch can offer some data points for comparison?

I'll back up your recent transplant from Philadelphia by recalling what the menu options were when I attended the Delaware County Press Club's monthly luncheon for the first time this past Wednesday: Baked stuffed chicken breast with mushroom sauce, green beans and carrots*, whipped potatoes or Tossed salad for the non-meat-eaters *This was held at one of those Olde Maine Line-type establishments, D'Ignazio's Towne House in Media. Green Bean Casserole would have been gauche. Suffice it to say that if it's a banquet or business meeting, there will be chicken breast served.

That makes two of us, Brad, and I'm sure we're not alone, given that some have been calling this chain "Charbucks" for years. In Philly, Starbucks locations seem to follow the competition as much as they lead it. They were the first to open at 16th and Walnut (a bank, of all things--ING Direct Café--followed them one block west some years later), in the 1200 block of Market (I don't count Old City Coffee in the RTM as direct competition given the market's hours; Dunkin' Donuts one block down--right at the entrance to Market East Station--and one block up came later) and at 10th and Chestnut (no followers yet), but they were entering already colonized territory when they opened at Broad and Pine (the Last Drop Coffeehouse, a Gen-X shop popular with the art students, opened one block east some three years before), and they will do the same when they open up 12th Street from me at Walnut (catty-corner from a Così that's been in business for five years) within the next month or so. Coffee-wise, the big news locally is that Dunkin' Donuts plans to increase by more than a third the number of stores it has in the larger Philadelphia region (Atlantic City to Reading, Trenton to Dover, Del.), to about 670, or about as many stores per capita as they have in their home market of Greater Boston.

One more note: My recollection that the Apollo in Center City had been renamed is correct. The restaurant is now called La Scala's. However, the menu prominently states that they still serve Apollo Pizza, and the four "Best of Philly" awards Apollo has won hang right next to the entrance. See you at 2 on Sunday at La Scala's.

I can't remember the last time I saw imported P-R for only $8.99 a pound. Is this really what you pay at DiBruno's or Reading? Here in D.C. $14 is a good price and it's recently climbed again. Actually, now that you mention it, I think that $8.99/lb is what DiBruno's charges for its domestic house Parmesan, which comes from Wisconsin (Aurichio, I think). $12.99 is what I think they charge for a pound of Parmigiano-Reggiano. I'll double-check that against the small container of ready-grated P-R I have in the fridge right now. I may also be a little low with my $5.99/lb figure for the industrial-grade cheese in the cans. Thanks for tipping me off to Grana Padano. I generally use both Parmesan and Romano on pasta with sauce. Though I've made enough snide comments in my time about people who go to mediocre places when there's better stuff available nearby--especially when there's better stuff available that costs no more--count me in with you as disapproving of of the morally superior tone that creeps into such comments at times. We're talking about taste, fer Chrissakes, and as the Romans put it centuries ago, de gustibus non disputandum est. I don't like the results I get with my fine cheese grater (one of those four-sided jobbies with holes pierced through the surface on the fine-grating side) and want to get another. As for people complaining about American cheese producers calling their product "Parmesan," I suspect that this is like the bottlers of water from Saratoga Springs calling their product "Vichy water" back in the 19th century, with the only difference being that the cheese is made according to the same methods used in Reggiano. Which, come to think of it, would really be more like those sparkling wines that have the phrase "méthode champenoise" on their labels. But since there is no "generic" term for this style of cheese, the term "Parmesan" itself must serve as the generic, just as "Cheddar" describes a style of cheese that is made in thousands of locations worldwide.

Neither here nor there, but: Was in Media's attractive-without-being-precious downtown yesterday at lunchtime to attend a Delaware County Press Club luncheon, and happened to walk past Apollo while killing time waiting for a Route 118 bus back to Chester. This place is also takeout only, so when we do schedule a Delaware County swing, (1) we will need to pay attention to the weather and (2) we will need to scout out a nearby place we can eat our pies. (The nearby grounds of Media Elementary School, perhaps?) In the meantime, as the one phone number I could find for La Cipolla is disconnected, I will assume that Herb is right about this place having closed. Our tour will kick off at the Center City Apollo (7th and Chestnut) at 2 and proceed as described upthread. Oh, and Happy New Year, Katie!

Since the Delaware Newark is in New Castle County, it definitely ought to be in the Philadelphia regiona guide. The New Jersey one is clearly too close to New York. Are there any Mercer County establishments in the Philadelphia Zagat guide? (Actually, I can probably answer that question myself when I get home by looking through my partner's copy of the 2006 guide.)

Oh, I think they went way past 57 varieties many, many moons ago. And even after selling their canned-soup business to Del Monte, I think they're still comfortably over the threshold.

Given that my plate of spaghetti resembles the Sierra Nevada no matter whether I use genuine Parmesan or an inferior product, I suspect that the savings might actually be more real than you might imagine given similar behavior. After all, a liberal application of $8.99/lb Parmigiano-Reggiano will cost about twice as much as an equally liberal application of $5.99/lb American industrial grade Parmesan-style cheese. For those watching their pennies, the savings may be large enough to trump the flavor considerations. BTW, as for Kraft Macaroni and Cheese, let me state that I didn't grow up eating the stuff and do not buy it now. (Edited to add: Pardon me for tossing the race card onto the table, but if I could do it with Green Bean Casserole, why not here? I can't think of a self-respecting African-American cook who would do anything other than make their own mac 'n' cheese from scratch, though use of Velveeta is OK.) But if a houseguest brings five boxes in with him as a contribution to the pantry, I would consider it an insult to the guest not to make use of his offer.

First Miracle Whip, now this. I'll own up to loving Miracle Whip--next to salt, it's the best thing to put on a fresh ripe tomato--and if you go over to the "Dinner!" thread and go back about 30 pages or so, you will see that I can turn Kraft Macaroni and Cheese Dinner into a thing of beauty. My partner loves Hamburger Helper, too, and it's certainly convenient when I'm feeling very lazy. But even though I grew up with it, too, I draw the line at Kraft Parmesan ever since discovering real grated Parmesan cheese. No, I won't refuse to use it if that's all that's available, and if my wallet's depleted, then I'll buy 4C in the glass jar. But if I can afford it, I much prefer the genuine article that melts when it hits the sauce. On popcorn, you all should try Cabot Cheddar Shake sometime.

While some of it was sophomoric, some of the stuff Klein couldn't use was even better than some of the quotelets that do get in. Anyone wanna wager whether or not the two following comments refer to the same place? And as for these diners: Maybe we could swing a reservation at Le Cirque for them?

There is an art to writing a negative review that is elegant in its contempt. This is one such review. Craig LaBan's trashing of Trust about two months after it opened (a review from which the place never recovered, leaving Stephen Starr to revive its ghost) is another.

YM "Hence the reason 'restaurant insiders who know' say 'when it comes to useful reviews,' 'you'd do better throwing darts at the Dining Guide in Philadelphia Style' than you would 'blindly following' the 'pasted-together' summaries in this 'fundamentally flawed' 'alleged guide to fine dining'..." HTH. Edited to add: That said, did anyone around here read Michael Klein's 9/7 Inquirer article describing his experiences as the local Zagat editor/assembler?

Neat trick, producing the first nearly empty fridge shot in eGullet Foodblog history! I like the "starting with a clean slate" message that sends. I also like fish sauce as a seasoning but cannot use it much any more. Partner's high blood pressure pretty much rules out anything but very sparing use of this sodium-laden condiment. Looking forward to seeing your water-filled landscape after a week spent amidst very little of it.

Following myself up to throw a question out to the multitudes: Would a walk from Old City to Independence Mall to Wash West be beyond anyone's capacity to handle? I ask this because when I put up the original itinerary, I thought that La Cipolla--the third "Best of Philly" east-of-Broad pizzeria--would be too far for some to walk. But with Apollo (615 Chestnut) as a midpoint, I think that it might be possible to walk from 132 Market Street to 140 South 11th. Your thoughts?

Saw one of the TV ads yesterday and immediately recognized the ending shot through the window of Steve's Prince of Steaks. Which episode is airing first?

<music bed="Hail to the Victor Valiant"> Bumping this back up because it's football season! Magus: Where do things stand with your permanent facility? Is it open yet, or on track to open? And if it's not, are you still doing the game-day operation? Let us hear from you, please! Comments from any Michiganders who have tried his product are also welcome. </music bed>

Well, I got three votes total, representing five diners. Three of them could handle Sunday, though one of these preferred a weekday. One can't do weekends. I'm sorry, Steve, and to make it up to you, I pledge the next tour will be on a weeknight. But Sunday the 24th it is. As I suspect that this date will work well with some non-voters, and I think the Pizza Club should really pay a call on NYPD, this will be an East of Broad swing, starting at the in-town Apollo and proceeding to NYPD from there. If there are enough hungry people on board, we can add off-list Paolo's, which is also a local fave of mine that the club has visited once, to the itinerary. L(a)unch time will be 2 p.m. See you at 7th and Chestnut. If you want to come, all you have to do is show up, but I'd appreciate it if you could also drop me a line via PM. Holly or Katie: Can you put this on the calendar?

New members now have to wait a while before they can post? My, how large this place has become! Anyway, just wanted to add my compliments on your blog and gratitude for showing us around a lovely little chunk of the Intermountain West. That house of yours looks like it stays real cool in summer, and I'll bet you don't need air conditioning either!

Sunshine Biscuits used to have a major plant in the Fairfax industrial district of Kansas City, Kansas, on (natch) Sunshine Road. The company began as the Loose-Wiles Biscuit Company of Kansas City, whose owners had been part of the National Biscuit Company syndicate. They built a bakery in Kansas City in 1902 that had lots of windows to let in light and named the crackers they produced "Sunshine Biscuits" in honor of the plant. Loose-Wiles changed its name to Sunshine Biscuits in 1946. I don't know why Keebler discontinued Hydrox after it acquired Sunshine in 1998 or thereabouts. After all, Keebler didn't--and doesn't--have a chocolate creme sandwich cookie of its own (I believe Vienna Fingers were also a Sunshine product).

Dude, that's like...whoa. Random. You know you're an eGulleter when you wake up late, put on your workout clothes, make some coffee and sit down to just QUICKLY check eG... two hours later you still haven't exercised, although you have put a serious dent in the plate of peanut butter cookies. ← Have you been hovering over my shoulder as I surf eG? It's made me late for work on more than one occasion. Speak for yourself, Bub.

If Paul needs more ammo to show reluctant merchants that the RTM does indeed have competition, I'd be glad to supply this data point for him. If the merchants were to follow the Iovines' advice and stay open later on weekdays, I wouldn't have to route my trip home past the H-Mart in Upper Darby in order to pick up a little fresh produce or something special to fix that night--I could just come on back into town as I normally would and let the train drop me off right under the RTM. (Now, I might still go via Upper Darby if I was looking for Asian ingredients, but that's another story.) I think Paul (and the Iovines) have a better idea of how much money the RTM is leaving on the table for others to pick up than some of the merchants do. Just because the Reading Terminal Market Corporation is a not-for-profit organization doesn't mean it can just lose money without consequences.

It sure looks it. But what does elk taste like? Did you hunt the animal yourself, or is there a butcher in Moab that carries unusual meats?

A&P launched Woman's Day in the 1930s to help drive sales at its stores.