lizziee

FG, You keep saying that taste is taste absolutely. Then, why is a Ducasse experience, for you, better than others of that same caliber? Is there an intangible quotient to the experience?

indiagirl, You are so right!!! FG, check the studies on senior citizens and they confirm what indiagirl says.

To revive this thread from a long time ago. I was researching a caviar allergy for a friend and came across this: Caviar Serious reactions can take place to any food. This study describes a case of anaphylaxis to Russian Beluga caviar. Anaphylaxis to Russian Beluga caviar. Untersmayr E, Focke M, Kinaciyan T, Poulsen LK, Boltz-Nitulescu G, et al. J Allergy Clin Immunol 2002, 109(6 Pt 1):1034-5. Fat Guy, It seems that southern girl was telling the truth.

Stone, That is an excellent example. When the Slanted Door was at their old location - funky, intimate, and quirky I loved the food and going there. Since they moved to their new location, the food just doesn't "taste" the same. Is it really different? Have they changed chefs? I can't answer those questions, but I can say that my perception of the food has changed.

For the best fried oyster loaf, Castamento's on upper Magazine. Bayona is one of my most favorite restaurants in NO.

"On the other hand, no matter how outrageously fantastic the food may taste--as good, say, as Alain Ducasse's truffled foie gras or Grandma's apple pie à la mode--if it's served to you on a dirty rimmed plate, you probably won't want to eat it." macrosan and FG, I think this implies that no matter how good something tastes, if it is presented poorly, it affects the way you experience the food and therefore your perception of it.

I find it extraordinary that we are arguing about food presentation and its effect on taste while every culinary school in the country spends time dealing exactly with this issue - what does the dish look like. In Cooking Primer: Plate Presentation 101:The food presentation equation by Marcela Broussard, she states; "Food presentation can make or break a dining experience (or break a restaurant, for that matter). It may be the secret to culinary success. The food has to taste good, of course, but a lot of mediocre cuisine gets by because it's offered to the diner in an appealing manner. On the other hand, no matter how outrageously fantastic the food may taste--as good, say, as Alain Ducasse's truffled foie gras or Grandma's apple pie à la mode--if it's served to you on a dirty rimmed plate, you probably won't want to eat it." She goes on to say, "Food presentation should be a symbiosis between taste and aesthetics." In the 1997 edition of Restaurants USA on line, there is a long article entitled "A Feast for the Eyes: Artful Plating" by Cheryl Ursin. (http://www.restaurant.org/rusa/magArticle.cfm?ArticleID=563) One of the interesting things she details is Dean Fearing's take on plate presentation. "You can give three different chefs the same five components and they'd each create a different presentation." My guess would be given that the taste and quality of the dish remained at the same level, there are individual preferences for one style over another. Obviously food presentation is a backdrop and the taste of the food is most important. But, I think it is a mistake to dismiss it as inconsequential. There is even an article that the color of a food can change how we perceive the taste. (http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/coltaste.html) Some years ago, I "worked" the Meals on Wheels event and was plating for Bradley Ogden. We were "serving" over 1,000 plates. I was getting a little sloppy as we were being slammed and Chef Ogden got furious when he saw my plates. He insisted that I plate carefully for each and every one as if I had only 4 to do.

Go to http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...T&f=27&t=19012& to see various member's reactions to Irene's review.

carpet bagger, If anything, Irene discourages those chefs who even attempt to create an exciting dining climate. In the case of David, he not only is attempting fine dining, but he is succeeding. Personally, I think it is a disgrace. I do have to remember that this is the city that threw away Thomas Keller, Michel Richard, Gilles Epie, Ken Frank, Andy Kistler and on and on. I just hope that those of us who truly care not only support these young, dynamic chefs but work hard to let others experience it as well. Otherwise, we are doomed to mediocrity. I , for one, am looking forward to trying Bistro 21 and I again thank you for your pointing me in the right direction.

The saddest part about the Los Angeles restaurant scene is that this was once a vibrant and exciting dining city. During the 80's, there were so many choices and LA was a trend-setting culinary leader. There was Jean Bertranou and his chef Michel Blanchet of L'Ermitage, Paul Bruggemans and his chef Camille Bardot of Le St Germaine, Bernard Jacoupy of Bernard's, Mauro Vincenti of Rex Il Ristorante, Michel Richard of Citrus, Susumu Fukui at La Petit Chaya, Patrick Healy of Colette, Elka Gilmore of Camelions, Roy Yamaguchi of 385 North, John Sedlar of St. Estephe and later Bikini to name a few. Of course, one of our biggest losses is Thomas Keller. Even our culinary stars of today are but shadows of what they once were. Remember restaurateur Patrick Terrail with his young chef Wolfgang Puck who introduced casual chic to the restaurant scene and those infamous pizzas. At Michael's, Michael McCarty actually had a chef in the kitchen - first with Ken Frank and then Waxman. Later Ken Frank opened La Toque and then gave up on LA to open La Toque in Napa. Susan Feniger and Mary Sue Milliken at City Cafe were experimenting with south of the border cuisine, but have now "left" the kitchen to become personalities. Piero Selvaggio at Valentino was once serving sumptuous Italian food, but now has dumbed down the restaurant and gets by. Joachim Splichal when he was at Max au Triangle and later in the early days of Patina showed off his pedigree as a protégé of Jacques Maximin. Now, he is rarely in the kitchen and has gone on to build a mini empire. I think it is deplorable that a city of this size and population can't support fine dining. I am thankful that David Meyers at Sona is "sticking" it out and only hope that he doesn't go the way of Michel Richard and Thomas Keller. Edit: I just saw the Sona review from Irene. With 2 1/2 stars, that is trouble. I do not understand her. She gave 3 stars to Whist for inedible food.

Can I have the uni in a potato crust to go right now?

Wilfrid, I hope it was obvious to all that I found "dining in the dark" absurd. Paul Leibrandt experimented with the concept at Pavilion with the Twenty Mouthfuls tasting menu. I will repeat again Michel Trama's statement (he is the chef of the two-star Loges de l'Aubergade, in Puymirol. He says, "All my searching has one goal: to sharpen and satisfy our five senses. I try always to orchestrate elements for the satisfaction of our senses. For me, a dish should be beautiful: well-presented to attract the eye, aromatic to excite the sense of smell. The savor must satisfy the palate and the crispness between the teeth make pleasant music to the ear. Touch is also satisfied, because at my place one resorts to fingers for sucking a shellfish."

At Suba, they do a dinner in the dark. "The theory is that without the sense of sight, our senses of smell and taste are more astute. 'Studies have shown that directing your attention toward a weak stimulus makes it more likely you will detect it,' says Barry Green, a Yale University neuroscientist who specializes in taste research. 'Dining in the dark may therefore make it easier to notice subtleties of flavor that would otherwise be missed.' " The full article can be found at: http://eatdrink.timeoutny.com/articles/378...78.eat.feat.php I think it might be interesting to test the theory of just how much sight, visual clues and presentation influences the dining experience. For the interested go to: http://www.cosmoparty.com/ The event: Tuesday April 15th 7:30 PM The Dinner in the Dark @ Suba! - NYC's food craze! Type of Event: Cosmo Blind Theme: NYC's newest food craze Where: Suba Who: Food Gastronomes and all Curious New Yorkers Age Group: 25-45 The Venue Sign Up! Get Together!

Claude, I can't add to the above as my husband does the wine and I the food.

I posted this, without comment, to see how members felt. Personally, I feel this "best" list is a joke. Lucques' food was inedible and we left starved. Michael's used to be a good restaurant when he employed a chef, but now it is a shadow of what this once was. It is the prettiest outdoor garden setting in Los Angeles. We went to Whist as a VIP (we were with a manager from another of their restaurants) and still had poor food and service. This, from the rumors, is the place to go for a happening bar scene. I feel sorry for David Rosoff at Opaline because he truly has a unique wine program -- the food, however, was horrible and his version of cassoulet a disgrace. Alex tries to deliver, but manages to never fully deliver. We went for their truffle dinner and you needed a tweezers to find the 3 tiny slices of truffles. I wish I could say Drago was still good, but again, this is the case of a chef over-extended with no one in the kitchen who can cook. Valentino has one of the finest wine lists in the country, but the food, in no way, matches that excellence. I think I have vented enough at one sitting. I could go on and on, but I will leave that to other members or at least another time.

carpet bagger, Is it possible that the clam you mentioned is called razor clam? OK, you have convinced me. Bistro 21 will be our next outing for sure. I have not been to Cafe Blanc in ages so I honestly have no up-to-date information at all. But from times past, I did feel that cafe Blanc stinted on finesse. I am never one to complain about "slow" service. In fact, I am of the school, that great cuisine takes time and I rather enjoy a lengthy drawn-out meal. If anything, it lets me eat more. Thank you so much for putting this in my list of must tries.

The wines we chose were the 96 Puligny Montrachet, Jules Belin 350ml and the 95 Cornas, Durard. They were both good, but as I said earlier, nothing special or extraordinary. Given the state of the euro and the many, many days of 2 and 3 star lunches and dinners, we were trying to keep the cost in reason. The sommelier was not exactly thrilled with our choice of wine and attempted to nudge us into something 3 times the price. I can't judge if what we had was a seasonal issue as I have never had dinner at Ledoyen. From your description and Jonathan's the abats dish sounds almost like a signature one. Was your visit to Blanc a recent one or from years back?

Jonathan, I am so glad that you liked Ledoyen. From both your description and Cabby's, I will have to try it for dinner as the "volaille" is not on the menu at lunch. I also found that the only service error was on the part of the sommelier who tried upselling us on wine, a rare occurrence in France.

pirate, Actually Pacaud's use of the word Sabayon is not a misnomer or an abuse of the language. Sabayon is most often referenced for a dessert sauce, but it is also used for savory dishes. Any mistake in my referencing hollandaise is mine not Pacaud's. For example in Michel Guerard's Cuisine Gourmande (1979) he gives a recipe for John Dory with a Sabayon Pepper Sauce. It is made by straining the cooking liquid from the fish, reducing it and then, after whisking the egg yolks with water until foamy, it is added to the simmering liquid which produces a light and foamy sauce. From the notes to the recipe: "The resulting sauce, a sabayon, is very different from sauces thickened with egg yolk in the ordinary way. Rather than becoming rich and creamy, it becomes light and foamy, as described." What is remarkable about this dish is that Pacaud is able to peel this fragile egg without a "scratch." I have tried this at home and I was able to achieve 1 perfect peel in 24 tries.

pirate, You are absolutely correct re eggs mollet. I was using soft boiled to indicate that the yolk was still runny and the white firm, much like in a hard boiled egg. Normally sabayon is the French word for Zabaglione in Italian. However, in Pacaud's hands it resembles a hollandaise more than a custard.

L'Ambrosie is one of the most elegant restaurants in Paris. The feel is like dining in a very elegant home. The service is formal, knowledgeable and precise. Pacaud's cuisine is not cutting edge -- it is all about the best ingredients handled with perfection. The prices are high and there is no tasting menu, only a la carte. One of my posts: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...203&hl=ambrosie I must add that some eGullet members do not have the same glowing reports, but I have never had anything but a perfect experience. I would go just to have his oeufs de poule mollets, sabayon a l'oscietre - soft-boiled eggs(egg mollet), perfectly peeled to resemble a hard boiled egg enrobed with sabayon sauce and on the side a "quenelle" of caviar and tiny asparagus spears.

I have to qualify my reaction to Astrance as it is based on only one meal in 2002. Unlike Cabby, I found the cuisine a poor mixture of jarring flavors plus ingredients that were handled from mediocre to poor. I am not exactly a purist when it comes to food as I have had 2 extraordinary meals at El Bulli and Pierre Gagnaire is a favorite restaurant in Paris. Other possibilities for Saturday dinner is Benoit - traditional bistro food handled well. It is not cheap, however, for bistro food. Other thoughts regarding restaurants open on Saturday are Aux Lyonnais (Ducasse's new venture into bistro food) and Hiramatsu. (http://www.hiramatsu.co.jp/lang_french/carte.html) I have not eaten at either one so I have no first hand experience.

boris, Check here for my post on Boyer:http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=11857&hl=boyer Dishes not to be missed: Oeufs brouille aux caviar oscietre Truffle en croute Salade du Pere Maurice Wild Roast Duck Many of their dishes can be ordered as half portions so ask if they will do a split - so much more for you to sample.

Angeleno Magazine has just come out with their 2003 restaurant awards. Restaurant of the Year: Bastide Italian restaurant of the year: Angelini Osteria Outstanding Power Dining: Mastro's Sona: Pastry Chef of the Year L'Orangerie: Chef of the Year Whist: Oustanding Outdoor Dining A.O.C.: Oustanding Innovation Opaline: Oustanding Wine Program Belvedere: Vanguard Award The best in a category: Best of Wolfgang Puck: Spago, Granita, Vert Modern Asian: Koi, Chaya Brasserie, Crustacean Hotel Dining: Restaurant at Hotel Bel Air, Dining Room at Ritz Carlton Huntington, Encore at St Regis The rest of the best: Alex Alto Palato Balboa Border Grill Drago Jar Josie La Cachette Campanile Casa Antigua Ciudad El Cholo JiRaffe Lucques Max Michael's Matsuhisa Mori Sushi Pammolli Patina Pinot Bistro Rockenwagner Saddle Peak Lodge The Spanish Kitchen The House Yujean Kang's Water Grill Xiomara Valentino Vida Zax

I definitely engage in gastrotourism. In fact, most of our trips are planned around what restaurant I want to try or go back to again. Two years in a row, we planned a trip around one goal -- eating at El Bulli. In fact, each year I pick a different region, most notably in France, based on the cuisine I want to explore. This year, thanks to eGullet members' suggestions, I have planned a trip with the purpose of "discovering" San Sebastian. It is hard for me to plan a trip with another goal in mind. That is not to say that I spend the time holed up in a hotel room pouring over menus and guide books. Most of the reading and pouring is done in advance at home. This actually makes the trip more exciting as this advance work allows months and weeks of pre-savory experiences. It is as if I have taken the trip many times in my mind before I step off the plane. In between, 2 to 3 hour lunches and 3 to 4 hour dinners, there is always time to explore the markets and specialty shops. I try for culture and art, but there never seems to be enough time! Although, we did get to the Dali museum in Figueras (worth it) and have planned to go the Guggenheim in Bilbao this year. And who said I don't do culture?