BertieWooster

To be fair ye olde 'Yorkie' gets a bit of coverage. I'm terribly, terribly shallow, so while I've heard of Ramsons, I was put off by their website. And particualrly by this line-- I'm wacky, me...

Its about an hour (maybe more, the roads aren't great) from the Yorke Arms, a bit more to the Angel at Hetton. However, there's some very nice places nearer in, especially at the pub with dining end of things. The Blue Lion at East Witton is lovely, as is the Bruce Arms at West Tanfield (just south of Masham), but both usually require booking (and might not be open Mondays). Masham also has the Black Sheep brewery which does fine fshnchps and more seriously Vennells, which I think has a bib--relaxed bistro-y place with high and inventive standards. Just outside Masham is also Swinton Park which is much posher, has two or three rosettes, and contains the Schrager Cookery School. Masham's just generally lovely on every level--excellent suasage butchers there. Northallerton is within range for Betty's and the best deli in the North (over the road from Betty's). Hawes is nice, well the Wensleydale cafe anyway. Bedale isn't very nice. everywhere else is pretty picture perfect. If you're sightseeing don't miss Castle Bolton, Jervaulx and Ripon Cathedral. Not been to the Heifer. A friend went and enjoyed it. Sure its fine.

Now be fair--it opened October 2005, thats over eighteen months. And everywhere needs a refurb after that long obviously. Especially if Z list celebs are regulars.

INteresting point about the sticks too Thom (and its the suburbs of Leeds so IS on-topic). My other home is in Ilkley, and apart from the Box Tree within walking distance and the increasingly excellent Ilkley Vaults pub, I've got the Dev Arms and the Angel at Hetton wihtin ten minute's drive, and the Sportsman's and the Yorke Arms within twenty. For very good food, if not actually fine dining, I'd say its better than either Manc city centre OR certainly Leeds. Why has good food moved to the country? EDIT: to comply with member agreement

Ha! Given that its all Manc places invading Leeds, I would have thought the red rose was winning quite comfortably. UNtil it comes to high-class dining. And, though I'm in Manc now, I'm actually from t'other side. You cut me, I bleed white roses. That's an interestingly gothic image ain't it?

Locally, if you head west, the Devonshire Arms at Bolton Abbey is cooking out of its collective skin at the moment. THe Angel in Hetton near Skipton has recovered from a poor-ish couple of years. And Betty's in Ilkley is still the best place to get a nice cup of tea and a sit down. [btw, assume 'Bebbis' is Bibi's?] And Mr MArshall should be along at any moment...

but did you still have your liver with you?

Oh, yes, the best little grocer in the world...

And, just to be slightly obnoxious, if you don't want to be treated like a tourist, avoid the Betty's in Haggogate and York and try the ones in either Ilkley (which is probably too far south for you) or Northallerton (which is a lovely little market town near to the beautiful Mount Grace Priory). Equally obnoxiously, I tend to rate the Magpie as one of the worst fshnchps shops in Whitby. But, honestly, its very very hard to go wrong if you buy from the front. And eating out of paper while watching the sea is part of the experience. The Star at Harome is a must, as is wandering around Helmsley the nearby town, which has a wonderful cake/biscuit maker amongst many other things. As Mr. Marshall says, there's a host of great pubs in North Yorkshire, and working your way round them will keep you happy and full.

Yeah, but the Leeds Red Chilli isn't a patch on its sibling/parent. Oops, talking about Leeds, I'll be deleted for being off-topic.

He took it over some months ago, though the refurb hasn't started yet. The rumour doing the rounds that he's intending to pitch the semi-underground restaurant at the Rossetti at Planet Michelin seems somewhat ludicrous though (though just being a 'nice' restaurant would, as you say, be good enough).

OOh, haven't tried that, will do soon as I can. We serve Brooklyn for the simple reason that I love it (we also serve fat rather than thin chips because I prefer them----the true nature of power!!)

Though the beer at the Hare and Hounds (my local if you don't count Bluu) is tosh. Why its on the CAMRA list is beyond me.

though what they'll do when the smoking ban comes in is anybody's guess... Likewise MattandPhred's. I mean, is it physically possible to listen to the saxamophone not through a cloud of tobacco smoke?

Have been to The Bridge since it re-opened. It's now good gastropub fare, rather than being exceptional as in the past. Beer's better kept though. But if you want beer, go to the Marble Arch, just outside town. Places in the N4 are great bars, but, the obvious Market (where you probably wouldn't no get in for Easter w/end evenings) excepted, aren't great for food. Odd's lovely, but food-wise? And I don't tend to think the chophouses are as good as their rep. food-wise or anywhere near as good as jay's review, but YMMV. And, again poisonally, I'd take Jem & I over t'Lime Tree anytime. But if you're going that far out, and fancy a curry, as Thom's pointed out in the past, the Nepalese restaurants in West Didsbury (the Great and Little Kathmandu) are supoib.

I was recently impressed by a meal at Carnevale in Whitecross St - near the Barbican centre: http://www.carnevalerestaurant.co.uk/ The reviews at http://www.carnevalerestaurant.co.uk/reviews.html agree with my experience ... David Stocks ← It is indeed a truly wonderful restaurant for veggies. Just very small and so hard to get into. The cafe style Indian next door (or two up, I forget) is also quite brilliant

ignore this, cos its a mistake

I love those conversations. Everyone says Manchester rains, but it doesn't. Well, only rarely. What it does is drizzle constantly between November and February. It almost never rains. For rain, you need to go to the Yorkshire moors. Preferably halfway up Pen Y Ghent (okay, that's the dales) as the black clouds sweep over... Sorry, homesick.

as someone who regularly has chips with fish pie, I shan't comment. I knew I was a powerful and important person when I got our chef to stop doing skipole and start making fat chips. Look, carbohydrates are important okay?

<mumbles to himself> it's like the Three Stooges </mumbles>

But surely its not about greed, rather about physical and emotional fulfillment. If a restaurant only gives intellectual fulfillment, one can never expect it to appeal to the vast majority of people simply because the core function of food is to, uhhr, feed. I might love eating at Anthony's, but it's intellectually interesting/satisfying, not physically. And, while I'm not a demander of extra veg, I don't really see why I should pay £100 for a meal and then need cheese on toast when I get home. There's a happy medium here (and the Fat Duck gets round it by fooling you into thinking you've eated a lot, of course...) FWIW, I was absolutely stuffed at the Blacksmiths. Couldn't move for days. But then I ate the veg.

But restaurant websites are notoriously awful. Sites for great places like Hibiscus fail to even have basic info like opening times on them. And there's always that slow flash upload which is just tedious. Why fancy restaurants have to have...*gibber, gibber* EDIT:

Shame, but can understand it. Didn't look like Sarah had much of a life outside the pub! And your liver would probably have exploded if you'd kept the place for too long. Congrats on all the two of you achieved though

<wanders in> Simon, you need to edit a bit, that gave me a headache---there's a sticky thread on how to use quotes at the top of the message board. <wanders out>

Yes, now I come to think of it I am---just over the border though innit. See, they both start with the letter 'R' and, uhhr, uhhr....geography was never a hot topic for me.