jhlurie

Another vote for Kulfi. And what's that orangish-yellow pudding I've seen at a couple of Indian restaurants. It's sort of Tapioca, but not exactly. It's very very orange colored, actually, more so than yellow. And Rice pudding too, although I won't be surprised if that's not really Indian in nature but just winds up at a lot of Indian restaurants, the way it does in Asian restaurants of all types.

My Dad was from the South Bronx. Yous' better watch it buddy.

Man, have I heard that one argued through the years. "Pat O'Briens rules", "Pat O"Briens sucks" and every possible reaction in between. I'm curious. Are Hurricanes even served outside the Quarter in N.O.? Somehow, if so, I suspect that the best one is in some little bar elsewhere in the city.

Oh I have such memories of Bob & Edith's, from my time in D.C. a decade and change ago. Back then it was really something... and I'm hoping that it's out-of-the-way-ness kept it from getting touristy.

Play nice kiddies and agree to disagree. BTW: does the estate of Dr. Suess get to sue this place over the name?

Steve Klc, Putting food aside for just a microsecond (gasp), I'm curious if the Uptown Theater in D.C. is still operating.

I'll get off the religious issues (where at worst--at least here on eGullet--those who disagree can at least agree to disagree in peace) and focus on the much deeper issue of New Yorker friendliness raised by stellabella. Unlike religion, this one is complex. New Yorkers are both the friendliest and least friendly people in the world at the exact same time. Hold this concept in your mind--they are less class conscious and generally less race conscious (with a few notable exceptions) than most of the world, but at the same time have less patience for "nonsense". Offend a New Yorker and you'll get the worst treatment of your life. Ask a New Yorker for help in earnest, and in most cases you'll see something extraordinary. The list of contradictions goes on and on, but the pattern is pretty simple--with a New Yorker you'll get back what you give, but magnified, since that's the essential nature of the place. This is as oppossed to many parts of the midwest, where they are certainly very nice, but in a less conditional way. Sometimes, as A Balic said, it can be a bit irratating, because in my experience they don't always react in accordance with your own mood--and that difference may be the key to why so many people find New York surprisingly refreshing. In New York, as I said, they more often project back at you what you emote, so when you see the pleasantness, it's reactive and thus not as irratating.

I'm afraid Steven knows more about the formal "book" aspects than I do. I was raised in mid-state NY (in a community with a very, very small Jewish community) and mostly know what I do through my Paternal grandfather--who was a bit non-typical in his approach to Judiasm--and frequent visits to New York City. I went to religious school and had all of the proper religious ceremonies and rites of passage... but for my family Judiasm was more of a portion of our ethnicity as oppossed to a way of life. From what I've come to understand in later years, this is actually fairly common for Jews who grow up in rural towns with small (or no) Jewish population, and is a cause of great concern for a portion of the Jewish community who worry about some sort of "diluting" effect--even though the process I'm describing (of Jews mixing in with other communities) has gone on throughout most of recorded Jewish history in some form or other. I have no hatred of Hassidim, for example, but find the mindset of even the tolerent majority totally alien. I know Steven is NOT accusing ME of this, but it HAS led to some charges of "self-hatred" before from other quarters, since when asked about them I tend to answer along the lines of "frankly, I'm not even curious".

THIS REPLY TO STELLABELLA IS VERY FAR OFF TOPIC "Cities We Love, Cities We Hate". Take this as due warning... Stellabella: Target is actually a "Mart", of course. Target-Mart. :D BTW: You show a much greater understanding of the NY Jewish situation than most Southerners. In truth, many ultra-Orthodox (Hasidim is the term) are perfectly respectible. But other portions of that community do indeed have an attitude similar to what you've described. It's pretty similar to the attitude of some few extreme Christian sects, who believe that a diluted path is an even greater heresy than simply being an unbeliever. By far, the largest number of Jews take a more moderate path, and generally those folks (from the "Conservative" and "Reform" schools of thought) get along pretty well. It's a bit unintuitive, but "Conservative" is actually being used to describe a fairly moderate path, with Reform even further along the path of moderation. I'm actually not a great source, being a "lapsed" Jew (at least religiously). My being un-observant is really a matter of personal choice, but it still makes me a bit of an outsider on these issues. Then again, as an "ethnicity", I can't really be lapsed, now can I (although my family is somewhat ethnically mixed as well)? The only other thing of note, is that the further you get along the path to reform Judiasm, the more the person USUALLY identifies themselves as solely "American", whereas the more orthodox Jews frequently seem to still see themselves as having some inhert direct vesting in Israel. This is such a hot-button issue among Jews (and non-jews, I guess) that I suppose I should not be unburrying it--especially when current events over there paint everyone involved, on ALL sides, in such a horrible light. I suppose ultimately, it comes back to a unspoken feeling by many (although certainly not all) moderate American Jews that Israel is now increasingly controlled by religious (instead of secular) elements who are positioned as if they represent every Jew in the world, but certainly do not. It's actually shockingly similar to the situation in a country like Kuwait, where the moderate Muslim element is actually being "bred" out of a majority by an upcoming generation of more orthodox Muslim families with sometimes dozens of children. I know we aren't suppossed to be talking about stuff like this by some kind of silent agreement, but some think that the same thing is happening in Israel--and to even speak of it gets charges of being some kind of self-hating Jew label thrown at you (especially for someone un-religious like me). Of course, this has to co-exist with a belief that Israel, in general, can (and has been) a force for great good in that region in the past, and if they ARE going to be representing us in the minds of so many people, that's why so many Jews STILL hope and pray for continued pro-Israeli sentiment. That, and the fact that many of us have relatives who live there--although as generations pass they become more distant relatives. The main point is (and I know YOU get it) is that Jews have a pretty wide spectrum of beliefs, and yet the reason we are frequently hated or misunderstood is that there is some belief in some kind of global Jewish conspiracy where we all have shared goals. Obviously that's totally ridiculous. Someone else on the boards will likely disagree completely with me, even though I think I've gone out of my way to not generalize. See... the whole situation is REALLY simple!

Are there no sacred cows anymore, Fat Guy? Are there none? :D But seriously, I've only been to a single Indian restaurant with Beef. I found myself so disarmed by the experience that I'm not sure I processed it correctly--I don't rightfully recall which beef dish I tried. I can at least IMAGINE something like a Samosa being much improved by beef. A Beef Vindaloo maybe.

Fat Guy: plus in rural New England you have to put up with people telling you: "ya can't get theah from heah"... stellabella: people from NY love stores which end in "Mart"

I've seen Salmon Curry in NY.

BREAKING NEWS: (boy, I've always wanted to say that) Apparently today's NY Times has an article about the upcoming sale of PJ Clarke's.

Is that the one behind the huge Post office?

Simon, You do indeed meet an unusual class of American. The truth is, the general perception of the French is not good here. We recognize a definitive culinary excellence, and also that they led the arts for the first half of the last century, but there is almost always an undercurrent of resentment (let's call it what it is) and a feeling that the French are trying to hold on to a position as the center of the world which--it it ever was truly theirs--has long passed on. Now, I am NOT saying these are my opinions. I have several French acquaintainces and know from it that the French vary as much in outlook as anyone else. But I don't really think that many Americans (at least of the last two or three generations) are Francophiles any more. As for the numbers of American tourists... remember that that number is relatively small in comparison to the whole American demographic. You see the people who want to go to Paris, and not those who don't--and naturally there are still many who want to go.

A decade ago, when I briefly lived on the Upper East side, I loved EJ's Luncheonette. Even if it was a self-conscious moderately upscale recreation.

Fat Guy likes unwashed feet? Eeew.

Something which may not be obvious to all of our European friends (although I'm sure many do understand) is that America is essential so big, so varied, that the "sense of otherness" applies even here. To some extent--with the advent of strip malls and chain food--this is lessened in recent years... but it is still essentially true. Simon is basically making this same point, but I think he is mistaken that Americans think that they have to go to Europe for it. As for why some Americans enjoy Europe (and I really do believe its only "some"), I don't think there is a single reason. For many, its not actually for a sense of otherness, it's instead for a sense of belonging--at attempt to see how their own understanding of their ethnic and cultural history fits with the reality of the place most of it came from. (Obviously this most strongly applies to Americans of European ancestry.) For some, the sense of otherness does come into play--although these are far more likely to be the gawky annoying "ugly Americans" the rest of the world likes to stereotype. Strangely enough people seem to confuse these two seemingly opposite rationales. Steve Klc, for example, is focusing on the sense of otherness, when in fact his rationale seems much closer to an attempt to fit European values, culture and history into the context of his own experience. He may feel inadaquate, but the fact that he's even making the attempt to understand the place puts him firmly into the first category.

And those of us who live in Jersey, but work in NYC have divided loyalties!!! Heck, I even grew up in NY. The key to getting this done is for Steven to appoint the head of the dinner committee, or for him to approve a volunteer. Somebody has to be in the position to make a decision, so that arguments over scheduling and venue don't take over. This should be a rotating responsibility, and everyone except tommy should be eligible. I also exclude myself, because I've had too much input on the two NJ eGullet dinners. Plus, I'd route us to a spicy ethnic joint every single time. We need new blood. :D

Actually we're also big on cheaper Ethnic eats here at eGullet as well. NYC Diners. Hmmm. I haven't been to a good diner inside of NYC limits for years... no decades.

Wilfrid, Six months ago I'm sure that airlines could (and did) look the other way when people brough packages of food on a plane. In the current climate, I'll bet it's confiscated if it looks homemade. I know I had no problems bringing on an outside bottle of water in November, but perhaps that's not the same.

In many American stadiums the key to getting decent food (now remember that I DID NOT say "good", only decent) is to be a rich S.O.B., have season tickets, and be allowed into the "Stadium Club". It's like a secret cult. I wonder if someone (with connections obviously) has ever done a roundup of Stadium clubs.

I resemble that remark, Rachel! (besides how could I miss an opportunity to tweak tommy) But being serious for a moment, silkqin, (and its hard for me to do that) its my belief that eGulleteers won't get into food ordering squables for several reasons: 1.) We frequently try to get a set menu, for a set price, ahead of time, and its presented here. If you don't see anything you like you either speak up at that point and request it, or opt out of that particular gathering. 2.) We generally aren't the types to argue in that situation. I'm not saying people here don't argue (oh boy, do they), but not when sitting with each other in a restaurant. 3.) Yes, the food is shared at a Chinese restaurant. But that means that there is a large enough selection for everyone to fill themselves.

The more common model is apparently the Pub/Movie Theater combo, as oppossed to a straight restaurant. A two drink minimum is usually involved.

shame on you tommy. I don't know silkqin, and his or her English sounds good, but to throw stupid Americanisms into your note like R U? :D R U insensitive? R U crazy? I M.