danjou

Hello, Danjou, alias Ed Chung here, greetings to all :-) I can't believe it has been years since I have posted here....but life has been hectic indeed. I just want to add some brief thoughts to what I have already written in this post way back in 2005 here, that traditional Northern Chinese "hand pulled " noodles, or "lah mien " is made with high protein ( high gluten ) flour and water only. The artisanal way is to use good high protein ( gluten) flour, and water....no chemicals......The trick here is the kneading time, as well as the intensity of the kneading as well as the kneading technique. This is very similar to making wrappers for Northern Chinese dumplings ( think of Kuo tieh, Sueh jiao, jin jiao etc.....which have no lye water....wrappers for these Northern style dumplings are instead simply made from dough formed with cold or hot water combined with good quality high protein flour..... ). The longer you knead the dough made from this high gluten flour in Northern style lah mien, the more you "develop" the gluten, and the resulting noodles are firmer, more elastic and chewier......no need for chemicals. Ramen, tsukemen, Cantonese wonton mien....are all sub classes of Lye water, or kansui (Japanese , or gansueh ( Cantonese ) noodles. These noodles tend to be far firmer and chewier than Northern style noodles, and these qualities are achieved with using BOTH, chemical and mechanical means.....chemical means, being an alkaline solution to chemically change the protein, and mechanical.....being long kneading..... Dumpling skins used in Southern, or Cantonese sueh gao ( sueh jiao in the North ), and wonton are usually lye water treated to give elasticity and to give a bit of an "al dente " quality..... cheers :-D Ed

Hi no. 22 is So Mei in Cantonese, wrasse in English. When live, this is perhaps the most expensive fish in a Chinese seafood restaurant's tank. Naturally quite rare, the numbers have further declined due to overfishing and the taking of undersized juveniles, usually before they are able to reach reproductive age. This fish is now on the WWF list of threatened species, and is the target of a WWF conservation initiative. Here is a photo of immature Napoleon wrasse being kept in a fish tank (Photo from the WWF site): http://www.wwf.org.hk/images/conservation/..._spec_nw6_b.jpg cheers, Ed

ooops, pardon the typo. I meant hiyamugi udon.... Ed

Hello all, ahhhh noodles, my favorite food... Now about beef noodles.... beef noodles are staple fare in Taiwan and hong Kong, and while both the Taiwanese version and Hong Kong version share some similarity to Japanese ramen, there are many differences as well. In Hong Kong, the beef is cooked separately in a stewing sauce of soy sauce, some sugar,star anise, cinnamon, garlic, ginger and leeks . The cut is usually brisket and temdon. The noodles are thin kansui based egg noodles, also called Hong Kong style "won ton noodles'. They are at times made with potassium or ammonium carbonate so there is at times a far stronger chemical note, and are chewier and far thinner than Japanese ramen. The soup is usually a light chicken and pork stock to which chives and dried fish and shrimp have been added. The noodles are cooked al dente, rinsed, and blanched again, then placed in a bowl; soup (and wonton if one so wishes) is ladled into the bowl and a ladle full of the stewed beef brisket is placed into the bowl, the sauce of the beef mixing with the soup. and spring onions are sprinkled on top. This is called, in Cantonese "Ngow lam meen". A variation is the noodles, without soup with just the tender beef and sauce ladled over, called "ngow lam lo meen" In Taiwan, beef noodles are a sort of national dish, but it is different as usually only wheat flour and water are used to make the noodles, with no kansui or egg. They are similar in diameter to Hiyanumgi udon, and can be referrred to as "shanghai" noodles in Hong Kong. The dish supposedly has Szechuan and Hunanese origins, and some peiople think it came specifically from Nanking ( Hence "Nanking beef noodles"), regardless..... The recipes for the stewed beef are numerous, but they involve more aromatics like garlic, ginger, a Szechuanese caramel ( more on this later) to give a deep red, chilli sauce, and the beef is slow cooked till tender, The coolked noodles are places in a bowl, broth...which can be beef bone based, or chicken and pork based, is ladled in, and the spicy beef and some of its rich sauce are placed on top. This is the famous Taiwanese "Nieu roh mien". cheers... Ed

Hi and warm greetings to Kristin, Hiroyuki and all.... When I make savoury rice dishes like sansai okuwa, or kamameshi style rice with assorted vegetables ( bamboo shoots, shimeji mushrooms, shitake strips, carrot shreds, etc. etc), I slice freshly made aburage into thin strips ( the aburage could also be pre simmered in usukuchi shoyou and mirin, then drained before slicing) and add them to the rice when it is just cooked and steaming, together with the simmered and drained mushrooms, meat and vegetables and etc. and then gently folded into the flavored rice. Fan the rice a bit, then serve oiishi desu... Ed Chung, alias Danjou

Hi hzrt8w, looking at your wonderful pictures I can't stop " loaw hao suey "... I just want to add that for many chefs, the reason for parboiling and rinsing in cold water, aside from precooking, is to remove a bit of the unpleasant kansui or lye water smell and residue from alkaline salts like potassium or ammonium Bicarbonate so commonly found in this type of fresh noodle. I know for a fact that because of stricter government regulations, the wonderful thin wonton noodles in the USA contain less lye water than in Asia, so the smell is not as marked. But out here, although the noodles are chewier and have more bite because of the higher amount of lye water, the smell is also stronger, therefore the precooking and rinsing is important. Nowadays, because of time limitations and the need to cook many dishes during the lunch and dinner hours, many chefs do not pan fry in this wonderful, classic manner you have described , which as you know is called "leung been wong", or "two sides golden". Instead, the noodles are merely thrown into hot oil and deep fried, which just does not taste as good as noodles cooked in the way you have shown above. There is something wonderful about the slightly charred, crispy and soft textures and flavor of noodles made in this pan frying method so sorely missing in deep fried noodles. cheers

Hi muichoi and Apicio Unlike borax, which is a health hazard, the occasional use of baking soda is fine, as it is not toxic. Many great Chinese chefs are not adverse to adding it to tenderize beef, and like you, I too use it occasionally for those typically Cantonese beef dishes which just do not taste right without its addition, namely classic stir fries involving sliced beef with oyster sauce, with or without vegetables, jung sik Ngow lao etc. With the gradual awareness of and ban on borax, I do notice that many chefs even in Chinese restaurants in several well known 5 star hotel chains in Asia have been resorting to treating their prawns with soda, which results in a chewy yet less crispy texture than borax treated prawns; however the natural taste of prawns are sadly missing in soda treated prawns. One chef and manager of the chinese restaurant of a major hotel chain here in Manila lamented to me that customers complain that the prawns they serve do not seem to be as crisp as those served outside; so he has to take great pains in explaining that the crispier the prawns the riskier the prawns, as they probably have been treated with borax. It is good to know that this Hotel chain is being extra careful about safe culinary practices. The use of borax and soda results in removing the natural flavor of prawns, this usually results in the heavier use of MSG, etc to restore flavor which I feel is also an unfortunate consequence. The safest way to marinate prawns which preserves natural flavor while still adding a more natural crispiness is with plain salt. My mother does marinate beef slices for stir frying, and they are simple marinades consisting of good quality light soy, yellow rice wine, the type for drinking, and not the soulless " cooking" wines; sesame oil, a pinch of sugar, egg white cornstarch....the beef marinates for about an hour, then it is passed through medium temp oil "Gwoh yiao", strained in a collander, then added to whatever stir fried vegetables and all of it then "bao" or blast flamed in the wok with wine and tossed with sauce at the last step. This is where one has to have excellent skill in handling the wok....but that is another long tale. you be careful now cheers,

Hi folks, I check egullet after several days...and what have you kids been up to...omigosh....playing with chemicals I don't have time for a more detailed reply, but I am alarmed. I am confused....and to quote my mom.."Aeeeyah " , muichoi, are you going to hydrate dried squid ? Don't add lye water to the dried squid The dried squid has already been processed with lye water and dried. You have to soak it in fresh water until soft. I think this might reqire a few changes of water. Dew peen or cured dried squid and most varieties of dried fish all over Asia, from hahm yue or kiam hee or salted fish in South China to Tuyo here in Manila were all developed as a result of the need to preserve seafood in the days when there was no refrigeration. Lye, soda and borax are bases which denature proteins; which means the protein is changed but not destroyed. I think the reason for the use of lye and borax was that they also kill bacteria and is therefore a preservative as well as possibly making the protein more easily digestable and as we have seen, firms up the texture. But borax poses a very signficant danger to health, which caused its apparent ban in Hong Kongas well as in many other countries, yet its use is still widespread in places where government is uninformed and enforcement is poor. Please read the following bulletin released last year by the Bureau of Food Safety and Consumer Protection in Canada: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/i...20040714e.shtml here is another warning, from Thailand: http://www.dmsc.moph.go.th/webroot/food/fi...este/borace.htm Muichoi, my mother tries to follow an artisanal approach to Chinese cooking and never uses any soda or chemicals in her beef dishes and prawns. From as long as I recall, she feels this trend toward treating food with all these chemicals is completely repulsive and poses a grave health risk. She is able to make her prawns wonderfully firm and crisp without ever having to add any chemicals. Prawns that are treated with borax or soda always lose their natural taste. I am certain these chemicals also alter things like the natural carbohydrates and vitamins aside from changing the proteins; which probably accounts for the drastic reduction in flavor of treated prawns. The taste or flavor has to be restored by seasoning the treated prawns . it is the same with soda treated beef, the natural flavors disappear when it is treated with soda. The flavor then has to be restored with the addition of marinade. Sorry for the long rambling post.... I'm getting sleepy let's cook, eat and stay healthy

Greetings and "magandang gabi" from Manila to all of you, Yikes, this is the first time I have heard of the use of pangsa on beef ....the horror....the horr... The addition of baking soda in Cantonese beef dishes is as you all probably know, an old tradition. Even the chewy springy consistency of steamed beef balls cannot be achieved without first treating the beef with soda or "Soh Dah Fun", and of course, water chestnut flour and pork fat. Used sparingly and carefully one can achieve that silky succulent texture " Waht" and "Chueh" so loved by the Cantonese. I try to be a purist too, but I concede dishes like "Jung sik Ngow lao" or Chinese style beef steak just does not taste right without first treating the beef. The texture can be a bit odd to Westerners however. There were also economical reasons why many restaurants tenderized their beef with soda; this was simply because they need not buy more tender but expensive tenderloin and instead use cheaper and tougher cuts which they would just slice up and tenderize with baking soda. Indeed baking soda is also used to treat prawns, and even though it is far safer, it is apparently less effective than borax, which is a much stronger base. The archetypal dish is the "Boh lei har kow" or Glassy prawn balls you mention, as well as "Ching chow ha yun" or stir fried shrimp as served in Shanghainese or Peking restaurants and frequently a lot of the shrimp based dim sum fillings like hargow even in upscale Chinese restaurants are treated with borax or soda. Another reason why borax was favored is that baking soda also leaves an unusual and rather odd odor and taste even after thorough rinsing and a lot more baking soda had to be used to achieve that chewy and truly unnatural texture. I always remember how my mother, herself a student of the Hong Kong chef Chan Wing long ago, would always frown when she tasted soda treated beef in restaurants. I completely avoid the use of any chemicals and much prefer the natural taste and texture of fresh prawns. Although it is possible other chemicals are sometimes used, lye water is usually the main ingredient used for making "dew peen" or dried and cured cuttlefish/ squid. It is essential and it gives the dried squid its characteristic appearance, texture and taste. Famous Singaporean dishes like "Jiu her eng chye" , which is cured cuttlefish dressed with a hoisin based sauce on top of blanched water convolvulus or "Kangkong" just does not taste right if fresh squid is used. One of the well loved Hakka dishes is 'dew peen' and fresh cuttlefish stir fried together with salted shrimp paste I do recall that Lye water is also used to treat dried jelly fish. And I also wish to add, as a warning to people who love salted fish, that the often exotic chemicals used in curing salted fish in some areas, like apparently ammonia containing chemicals has resulted in a product which has been linked to the high incidence of nasopharyngeal cancer in the coastal regions of South China and Southeast Asia....but that is another tale. cheers to all

Hi all apologies for the uncorrected posting above Anyway....here are some more thoughts about alkaline solutions. Food grade lye water is used extensively in the class of noodles in Southern China called "Gansueh Meen", or literally, "lye water noodles" When made well they are delicious; but in the fiercely competitive Hong Kong noodle restaurant business, some noodle restaurants, specifically the wonton noodle restaurants are resorting to more unusual basic alkaline solutions to make their noodles achieve an even more chewier texture which is so prized by the Cantonese. I have been quite alarmed at the strong whiff of ammonia I have encountered at several top notch wonton noodle restaurants in Hong Kong. A Japanese chef told me that many ramen lovers in Japan actually view the flavor of kansu or lye water as an intergral part of the flavor of ramen. Indeed, I have eaten in many ramen restaurants in Japan and have noticed that the taste of the kansu in the noodles will vary from restaurant to restaurant, ranging from strong to mild, and this correlates with the amount of kansu used, which I also observed, is proportional to the "springiness" and elasticity of the resulting ramen. Alkaline chemicals like lye water are also used in the Chinese rice dumpling called "kansueh jiong" in Cantonese, or Lye water dumpling, but if made properly and well, and eaten in sweet red bean soup or simply dusted with sugar or topped with a bit of syrup they are delicious. In Chinese restaurants all over, especially Cantonese restaurants, you will probably notice that at times the beef in classic dishes like "oyster sauce beef" or "Chinese style steak" and many other stir fried beef dishes, and especially in San Francisco's Chinatown, "Steak kow" are extraordinarily and almost unnaturally tender, chewy and succulent. It means that baking soda was used to tenderize it. Pang sa, or borax has been used for a long time, but exactly when it began I am not sure. It was only available from Chinese medicine shops and I recall it being mentioned by Cantonese chefs when I was a kid during the Sixties. I knew that the extraordinarily crunchy and delicious prawns we would eat at many reputable and famous Hong kong restaurants were in many cases, treated with a white powder called pang sa, but did not realize it was borax until much later, when many years ago, I noticed a huge sack of borax at a Chinese restaurant supplier's shop. I innocently remarked to the proprietor that I did not realize they also sold detergent, to which he replied, "Oh that is pang saH" Nowadays, most good Chinese chefs do frown on the use of pang sa, and there are many safe and natural techniques to achieve the prized crunchiness in prawns without using any chemical or additive. But I still encounter it in restaurants all over Asia where government regulations are lax. I suspect in many cases, unscrupulous restaurant owners and their line chefs use it to cut losses, especially when the prawns are no longer fresh, as it firms up the flesh; and although it is rinsed for hours literally, I doubt it is completely washed away. Pang sa was added to all sorts of things, especially commercial, mass produced fish cake, fish balls, and as i mentioned above dim sum restaurant items including at times radish cake, as well as fresh flat rice noodles and even some dried soy bean sticks "Foo Juk". Commercial, non artisanal and extraordinarily chewy fish cakes and fish balls were, and in some places are still are treated with pangsah. I think it is the fierce competition in the Chinese restaurant business and food industry all over Asia is only one of many reasons why many establishments used and still use borax, especially in countries where government regulations on its use are poorly enforced or non existent. But over the years, many genuinely good Chinese chefs, the ones who are purists and true artisans at heart, have tried to stop the use of this chemical, especially in recent years when the potential risk to health became apparent. I know for certain that many of these great chefs are trying to teach a higher standard of food safety to their students and to do things the more difficult but safe way rather than use these chemical short cuts. cheers,

Hello all, Lye water "Gan sueh" in Cantonese, or Kansu in Japanese is an essential ingredient in making ramen noodles in Japan. It is what gives japanese Ramen noodles as well as many Southern Chinese style egg based noodles their chewy springiness. For many years, the use of lye water and similar alkaline and even toxic chemicals like borax, "Pang sah" has been a controversial subject in Chinese cooking. Lye water and relatively weaker alkaline ammonia based solutions and potentially toxic Pang sah, or borax is used to give prawns in Chinese restaurants springy almost elastic texture. and are added extensively to Wonton noodles especially in Hong Kong and Southern China. I had a patient who was a Cantonese chef who told me years ago about how borax was used. In a nutshell, the prawns are treated with the borax, and rinsed at times for over two hours in restaurants to remove as much of the chemical. In recent years, health authorities in Hong Kong have tried to prohibit the use of pang sah, and from what I hear, all these other related alkaline solutions, but its use is still prevalent all over Chinese restaurants in countries where the health authorities are not vigilant, or simply unaware. Pang sah is sometimes even added to rice sheets or cheung fun and as a chef once admitted to me, radish cake. When you encounter prawns in dishes like hargow or Crystal or "Emerald prawns" and the texture is extraordinarily chewy and elastic, chances are it has been treated with borax or a similar alkaline chemical. Danjou

Hello all, what a wonderful thread ! Well, here's my 2 bits..... Torakris wrote: "I think the hot rice vs cold rice has to with the the type of rice you are using. In my experience the non-sticky rice has a tendency to clump up when hot but sticky rice (Japanese style) can be very difficult to break apart when it is cold, thus you end up with clumps." Kristin has an important point here. My mother, who teaches Chinese cooking on occasion, and was a student of the eminent Hong Kong chef Chan Wing ages ago, says it has to do with the type of rice. I will attempt to explain....with my run on sentences....... In Hong Kong, one of the most popular dishes during the winter time is stir fried glutenous rice, " Chow loh mai fan" in Cantonese, and in Japanese, this translates as stir fried okuwa ( cooked mochi gome). This is one of the most difficult Chinese dishes to do well, as there are myriad ingredients, and if done poorly, it becomes too oily and the rice might become mush. A digression..... There are many ways of cooking Mochi gome or glutenous rice in this Cantonese style, many Chinese chefs use California grown pure mochi gome ( called "sweet rice") or the long grain mochi gome from Thailand. Some chefs use the rice cooker, or a pot with "superior stock"( a stock made with pork, chicken, Chinese ham etc) to flavour the rice, and then the other ingredients like preserved pork ( a fragrant pork belly cured with wine and soy), shiitake mushrooms, sliced, Chinese sausage ( the type that is like chorizo de Bilbao), chicken thigh cubes, dried scallops etc. are added. Or a simple way is to place the washed and strained mochi gome on a muslin, and place it in a large steamer and steam it until it is shiny and al dente. No stock involved, just all the above ingredients, each one prepared separately and then gently mixed with the hot rice with high quality soy sauce and other seasonings. This hot "loh mai fan" or okuwa can now be served as is, or.... stir fried. This sticky Cantonese style Okuwa has to be stir fried while hot and it is next to impossible to do it when it is cold. The other varieties of rice common in Southern Chinese cooking, are long grain varieties like Thai Jasmine; these varieties are best stir fried when cold.** The point is, if the variety of rice is sticky, it is better to stir fry while the rice is hot as it is easier to separate and toss the grains in the wok , which is why Japanese style chahan and Cantonese style stir fried okuwa is made while the rice is hot. The hot sticky grains are easier to separate in a hot wok when it comes in contact with the hot oil. Jasmine rice used for chahan in many restaurants in Hong Kong are cooked first with less water than usual, to produce a more al dente rice. This Jasmine rice is further cooled in the fridge. The reason is that the best Chinese chefs try to make a chahan where each INDIVIDUAL grain is seared and flavored. Each grain must literally stands on its own. To achieve this, and there are many ways, many Chinese chefs (one can just use the back of a large spatula or spoon so the grains are not cut or fractured ) gently press on the cooled and clumped Jasmine rice so it separates easily into individual grains before it is thrown into the hot wok (in which oil has been swirled and aromatics added). When this cooled Jasmine/long grain rice is tossed in the hot, aromatics infused oil, all the grains separate further, and becomes individually coated with the aromatic oil being used, and each individual grain is seared by the tossing (which is very hard to do) at high heat ( then the other items are added, Cantonese Charsiu, shrimp ( precooked) vegetables, egg, etc. The stickier nature of the Japonica rice( and mochi gome, Chinese" loh mai"), thus requires different approach and techniques compared to long grain / Jasmine rice when it comes to chahan. For example, emulsifying cooled al dente long grain rice with the beaten egg will not work, and only works deliciously with hot Japanese rice. I am becoming too verbose.... cheers **: A brief note:In Northern China ( where wheat products are more commonly eaten than rice ) Japonica rice( similar to Hinohikari) is the main rice variety grown and eaten, and this is true in the large areas in the Shanghai region( trivia:Japonica rice grown in China is called "Shanghai mai").

What a wonderful, well written article Torakris ! Not only do the kids eat a balanced, nutritious lunch, they also learn good hygiene, good manners, and to be responsible. Who says education has to stop during lunchtime ? Truly, these lunches provide far more than mere nourishment ! cheers

Hi Hiroyuki, thank you for posting the wonderful pictures !!! Now I have got to find some nigari at the loxal Japanese grocery. I cannot wait to try it myself. Just last month, I managed to catch this Japanese cooking show on JET TV, I do not know the name of the show, as my japanese is awful, but it was hosted by a fuunny chef with a mustache and he was walking around what looked like a part of Tokyo( wearing chef's whites and a chef's toque) with his co hosts, and trying different places . He walked into what looked like a side walk restaurant run by a woman. The woman showed a bowl of green soybeans ( ?) from which she made green soymilk. She then added nigari, and placed the resulting tofu in a steamer. After steaming she presented the green tofu and called it "Midori Tofu " She then placed a few scoops of this gorgeous green tofu om a large bowl of rice, and added a saucy ground meat topping and the result was an incredible looking Mabotofu donburi, using this "midori tofu, which is probably the same as the yosedofu...... They are truly doing some wonderful, truly incredible things with tofu in Japan !!!!! Hiroyuki, how much nigari should one add ? Will it be creanier and more custard like if one increases the Nigari, or will it become hard ? The one at that restaurant long ago looked like a creamy custard. I am getting hungry looking at your pictures, as well as recalling that mabotofu don. cheers

Hello Torakris, here is my favorite example of Japanese style Chinese cuisine. Many years ago, I remember going to a restaurant in Yokohama run by a very popular Chinese chef, Tomiteru Shu( or was it Tomitoku?). He has a knack for reinterpreting Chinese dishes into Japanese/ Chinese versions; while some of these dishes tasted fine, other Chinese dishes were just "Lost in Translation". The most delicious of Shu's dishes was an incredible "Sake Chahan" ( salted salmon fried rice). This was Shu's take on the classic Cantonese / Hakka specia;ty "Hahm yu chow fan" or salted fish fried rice. Of all the Japanese style Chinese dishes I have tried in Japan, Tomiteru Shu's sake chahan was simply the best ever. He took a classic Chinese dish and simply substituted wonderful shio sake for the extremely pungent Chinese salted fish and used Japanese rice in place of the usual long grain or Jasmine rice, and created one of the best fried rice I have ever tasted. Part of the incredible flavor was from the way the rice must have been tossed in the wok, as all of us at the table remarked that the dish had that wonderful seared quality of a well stir fried dish, a quality called "wok hey" in Cantonese, which translates as " the breath of the wok"; wok hey is something very difficult for home cooks like us to achieve without the massive propane gas stoves used in Chinese restaurants. Deceptively simple, fried rice is something very difficult to do well. It requires a good wok technique and arm strength, and a friend of mine who is in the Chinese restaurant business in Hong Kong actually interviews chef applicants by seeing how they do fried rice, among other dishes. I still get hunger pangs thinking of Shu's amazing chahan . cheers