drcocktail

I was the brain behind Fee's peach bitters. It was a history thing. There were about 30 cocktails calling for peach bitters not made since the 1930s, and Jack Fee and I were talking about it. It had always been his dream, too, to reintroduce them, but he had no formula. I just happened to have a vintage bottle of peach bitters which I unhesitatingly sent right to him. Analyze it! I said. He did, and now we again have peach bitters. Some folks don't like 'em, but I think they're the Bee's Knees. Mint Bitters, I believe they have discontinued. They were especially compounded for julep-type drinks. It would have been sad to see them go if they weren't so gut-wrenchingly, gorge-risingly horrible. Hope I didn't put too fine a point on that. --Doc.

Ummm... ok, all of this seems to avoid and ignore the concept of the evoloution of the language, doesn't it? Thermos. Scotch tape. Triple Sec. Websters now recognises vodka martinis, so what's your point? Bring on the "posse". Whatever they presume to know about etymology or cocktails, it is evident that, they are behind the times if you are characterizing their position correctly. And of course all linguists know dictionaries, by their nature, lag behind the evolving language that drives them. Again, 'cocktail' consumed previous categories that were once its equals (and in the case of Slings, it's father). Now, as the "martini" in the popular Martini Cocktail consumes previous categories that once contained it...well, what IS your point? The typically revisionist stance is that the "Martini" is simply gin and vermouth. This is laughable. The martini in its history has embraced sweet vermouth, dry vermouth, old tom gin, genever gin, dry gin, vodka, olives, lemons, aromatic bitters, orange bitters... but now it's this thing that can't be changed, from its current incarnation, the last 40 years of its 140 year history?! Oh please, bring on the "posse." OR begin to understand what's really happening and put your energy into more relevant (cocktail) issues. Orange bitters. Fresh juices and ingredients, evolution. (Sorry to be so stern, but I've been at this -- in depth -- longer than you {or the posse} were alive) --Doc.

Ubetcha. No one feels more like Tana at the core of the issue than I. For me, even vodka is reserved for Moscow Mules and Bloody Marys. Nonetheless, there is no escaping the evolution of the... English language. It is clear that just as the term " cocktail " usurped and overwhelmed other categories - soon to be SUBcategories, so has the wildly popular word Martini. Yes, it once referred exclusively to a gin, vermouth and bitters (yes, bitters) concoction, and in its latter years gin OR vodka hinted with vermouth, it has come to supercede the term " cocktail ". Walk into any responsible bar and ask for a Martini - and you'll still be asked, "gin or vodka". Probably won't be enough vermouth put in, but it IS the basic drink you envision. Add any descriptor to the beginning of the term, and the gates swing wide open. That is because in popular parlance the word "martini" has become synonymous with the term " cocktail ". Don't fret! " Cocktail " consumed juleps, crustas, fizzes, fixes, shrubs, slings, swizzles, sangarees, corpse revivers, and MANY others. This is just the evolution of the language. Cocktails became the overall category embracing all of the above, many of which actually preceded it. So it remains today. If you aren't just posturing -- if you really appreciate Martinis -- after all, they were just one of MANY cocktails of the golden age of cocktails, and certainly other cocktails of equal value from that same period are still enjoyed, pristine, while others of value have been unduly forgotten, if you know all this and still appreciate and embrace the balance it presumes, then we agree and have recipes to share. These formulae will never go away, no matter what the new crop of drinkers call them. We can just hope they WILL call them! When you speak of "traditional Martinis", you open yourself up to queries about their brothers and sisters. It's hard to be HALF of a traditionalist. Whatever the terminology, and as Beans said, the umbrage is nothing new, you can still have your drink - just don't assume the slippery slope is, itself, anything BUT traditional! (edited, as always, for typos.) --Doc.

Amen to that! Whoever thinks washing glasses by hand is fun raise their hands. Hey! Is anybody here? I am unduly lucky because I actually live within driving distance of one of Libbey's rarified factory outlets. What fun it is going there! Because of my aforementioned proclivities (I live for the day someone comes over and challenges me to make drink X in the correct glass) I also poke my head in thrift stores every now and again. All I need are six of....everything. Eventually I get pretty close and even those for which I have only 1, well, that 1 is a gem! Now an aside: The challenge fantasy. Sometimes it happens. I always start my cocktail get togethers with knowledgable cocktail folk with the exhortation "Ask for any drink you've always wanted to try, couldn't find the ingredients for, or simply thought no particular ingredient still existed for." Usually they say, "Doc, it's your house - you're the Doctor" and I'll make 'em something. But ONE time, I had a string band over for a small party and one of the members got this gleam in his eye and said, "got anything do ya? How about a Newfoundland Screech neat?" I rushed inside and brought him the whole bottle to admire. He was flabbergasted and delighted (but not so much as I!) It's the little joys in life, and ok, I'm weird. --Doc.

I like Monin syrups. Going slightly off topic here, two things: I've long had a fascination with syrups that were used as grenadine substitutes in certain places and in certain periods. One very prevalent one was raspberry syrup and it's a GREAT substitute. For that, I highly prefer Smucker's Raspberry Syrup. They call their syrup line truefruit syrups, and the raspberry especially lives up to that name. One of the other substitutes was called groseille syrup (red currants). Of course creme de cassis is made of black currants, and Monin makes a black currant syrup. I wonder if they (Monin) would consider making a red currant syrup? It seems, otherwise, quite unobtainable. (Back on track now,) Robert, Beans, Audrey, how would you describe the flavors of the violet syrup and/or liqueur? Thanks! --Doc.

No problem, there. I think Fish is right. You are not alone. There is a rich history of mistranscription of bitters in the cocktail world too. First cocktail guide ever published, Jerry Thomas, 1862. When recipes called for aromatic bitters, the text cited Bogart's Bitters. People had been searching them out for years. Problem was, they never existed. It wasn't 'til the new typeset in the 3rd edition of 1887 was it altered to read, correctly, Boker's Bitters. If the Father of the Cocktail can make that mistake, you're in good company! You folks ARE aware of Fee Bros. Orange Bitters are you not? Fee Bros. 1-800-961-3337 Rochester, N.Y. Their website is here. Warning. Theirs is not as complex flavor-wise as the Baker bitters (or, dare I presume, the Mrs. Knot's Naked Cat Orange Bitters) but they are proudly orange, proudly bitter, and can be adjusted with ease as the basis of other formulae. So between the availablity of Fees and the anticipation of Regan's, I'm pleased to say we don't live in a world that's gone totally mad. Gravely, --Doc. Edited for clarity in the face of early morning groggies. (and edited once more to make for a smooth transition to the new thread. Sorry Doc! -- JAZ)

I stand corrected. Many thanks for the clarification. --Doc.

FG, you be pullin' my leg, but I'll letcha. You need a measure that'll give ya measurements from 1/2 oz, 3/4 oz, 1 oz, 1.5 oz. All others you can do in multiples. They come in various styles, i bet you can ask for and locate 1 or maybe 2 little thingies that'll do all of the measurements you need. If not, give me the number of the place you checked and i'll sandpaper their ass with 100 grit paper. Sorry. It's the music again. --Doc.

I'm listening to some fabulous string music just now (and the music and the "just now" came to me from a Southern Belle girlfriend of mine a long time ago) - well I will pull myself back into the present here in California. Ah, it is luscious, though. Of the bitters, you are looking at, you can't get a one of them, sad to say. Some of the rarest orange bitters on the planet. Some just old, others like the Field's Orange Bitters considered to be the finest orange bitters EVER produced on earth. Gone since the 40s. Let's do a bottle dating: From lefty to righty: 1936, 1930s undated, circa 1960, 1930s-1950s, '40s-early '50s, 1947, 1939, 1936, circa 1931. Point is, we need more bitters, orange and aromatic. We used to have 'em, uncommon as hell now. Bravo Balma for making them. I think and hope we are moving back toward a revival of those tastes, but I admit, I am the far side of that argument. I hope you can relate. Blah blah woof woof, --Doc.

Steven, it would take a copy editor to know! For Gaz and my drinks you still need lemons and Pernod and white (that is to say clear not brown) creme de cacao. I think for both of those drinks, you'll have it all with those purchases. Do you have measuring apparatti? Jiggers? Maybe you need them too. We've just gone off on a bitters tangent, never mind us! Good Luck! --Doc. (Jigger edit)

Well they DO bring back memories, and you are so right about the lack of Virginia Dare bitterness. They were an odd product which did not contain alcohol, used mainly for cooking purposes. I loved the bottle, though, didn't you? Matter of fact, you've galvanized me! I'm goin' a-diggin'! (Back in a sec....) OK, back now. Thought you might like this: Note right in the middle, dear Miss Virginia Dare - found after these many years! And next to her, my oldest bottle of Old House. It's Orange Bitters heaven! --Doc.

Chas Baker's is pretty good. They were the first I ever made too. I came to feel they lacked sufficient bitterness. Remember, if you pretend you're making them commercially, and that you are the Bureau of ATF testing them, they must be too bitter to drink straight. Baker's didn't make that cut, but it is easy to do with one of various bitter herbs. Easiest I find is gentian. Also, Schiefflin used to make my personal fave orange bitters from the 30s through the 60s (Old House Orange Bitters) and theirs had another bolstering ingredient of genius: ginger. It's not too hard to combine those ingredients into a recipe, but I am mainly all excited about Regan's Orange Bitters #6 which we all believe will be released by Sazerac before the end of the year. You'll love 'em - especially when you hear that the label will depict the noble visage of Lord Regan. -- The Royal Doctor.

One other note as concerns the U.S. Cuban embargo for your piece of mind: having Cuban GOODS is legal. Americans buying them (or spending ANY money in Cuba) is not. Therefore within duty limits, you need not worry about buying them in Spain or bringing them back with you. --Doc.

Oh Janet, the 20th Century definitely works. Truth is it pays to be a bit miserly with the cacao. If this drink is made right, the result tastes like a complex but refreshing lemonade and after the swallow, there is this unexpected blush of chocolate. Just a tiny bit tootsie roll-like, but very very clean! --Doc.

Yeah, Bols Parfait Amour used to be the most prevalent in this country, but now U.S. Bols liqueurs are all made here (though not their genever) and the parfait amour is one of their Dutch products. No question, parfait amour is neither creme de violette nor a good substitute for it. My point is that anyone that makes a parfait amour has the raw ingredients right at hand to compound a violet liqueur with ease if they are so inclined. The thing is, if they wanted to go one step further and make a product reminicent of the pinnacle of the art (Creme Yvette) they would need to make it a liqueur of candied violets - and the flavor is quite like that of pastilles. This is utterly superb in cocktails. Parfait amour (Bols -and Marie Brizard too with the orange undertone Beans noted-) is a very 19th century "Ladies" style liqueur which I describe as tasting like marshmallows and grape jellybeans. It attacks a drink with the tenacity of a pitbull. Here's an example. I once (as an experiment) made a drink of 1/2 sweet & pleasant parfait amour and half Laphroig. The parfait amour won. Quite amazing really. I only have one drink I can tolerate with parfait amour (that I have yet found) and it is the 1920s Jupiter Cocktail which is superb but difficult to make. Creme Yvette, I show off in the Blue Moon Cocktail and it is one of my favorites and not too tough once the ingredients are in hand. As to shipping, I'm a silver-tongued devil, and if the source ever ships at all, I can usually get them to ship to me. --Doc.

Well I call that ALL good news. Monin does violet under its own name - wonderful. Cartron does Parfait Amour, and it's only a hop skip and jump to a violet product from there. Can we get ANY of this stuff over here or via the web? --Doc.

[Moderator's note: This started out with a quick side question in the "Guide to the Perplexed" thread, but it took on a life of its own, so now it has a thread of its own.] The question (from Fat Guy): I was at Fairway this morning and noticed they had Angostura Bitters, so I bought some. Now would someone please tell me what bitters are? FG, bitters are a concentration infusion of one or several flavors in a tincture of alcohol with a bitter constituent. Used both to assuage irritable stomachs and to promote hunger a la aperitif. There are three basic varieties: Aromatic bitters - that's what you just got. It is herbal and spice-based flavor-wise, very very bitter, and usable only in dashes. They cannot be drunk straight, thus even containing much alcohol they could be produced sans license during Prohibition because they were considered non-potable alcohol. The second type are fruit bitters. Generally flavored witha single main fruit (like orange or peach) they are often backed up with hidden bolstering fruit or spice flavors merely meant to support the primary one. All other characteristics match those of aromatic bitters like Angostura. The third type are aperitif/digestive bitters. These can be spice and/or fruit/and/or herb-based, but you CAN drink them. Examples are Campari, Amer Picon, Fernet Branca, etc. Even to some extent Jager. These, either diluted or straight, are unto themselves - but of course can also be added to cocktails. Aren't you sorry you asked? --Doc.

Ah Curlz, all we did was cover the "cook" first. That was the zen approach - to feel your way through based on an immediate knowledge of the flavors and characters of the ingredients - the essence of non-recipe cheflyness! Here we are taking what I characterize more as the French sauce approach. Metaphoric baking works too, certainly. As with either parallel, we are now moving in the direction of a tried-and-true formula. I do the zen approach fine, and I think so did Steven. That said, in drinks even more than in food (where I am the essence of zen), I love producing a great recipe! --Doc.

Beans' you are quick, quick, quick! That is also what had my interest up. If Monin produces alcohol-containing versions of their products at least we have another option -- and another company to convince of the burgeoning U.S. market! Next step Forbidden Fruit? No! Pimento Dram! Yes! --Doc.

Well, that's GREAT news, Aud! How much alcohol does it contain? I want some! --Doc.

Too late. WAYYYY too late! --Doc.

I'd like to take this a different direction, here, based partially on Steven's professed instinct that specific instruction may work better for him. Hey, that's the way -I- learned. I'd STILL make undrinkable coffee if I didn't use lab equipment to measure it. We all have these blocks, they are just different places on the map. OK, first of all - I want to show you that while disliking gin is fine (everyone dislikes something) that even things you dislike in their full plumage can make for delight if well integrated. I've made cocktails with gin for people who don't like gin and had them love them. You may not, but then, the cocktail we created for you did sort of "showcase" the gin - as opposed to simply utilizing it in an ensemble piece. I always thought it was way cooler to figure out how to like a bit of everything - in opposition to the connoisseur's stance of rejecting all but the pinnacle of a taste sensibility. OK, premise stated. The following is the best of ensemble gin use, it is a real recipe - meaning you will measure and you will buy ingredients, just like with a food recipe. Laziness aside, this is the alternate approach to the zen of cocktail preparation. The drink: the Corpse Reviver #2. Date: probably late Prohibition. Name derivation: Originally envisioned as a morning-after drink to "revive the corpse again", get it? No longer consumed that way, it makes an exquisite pre-dinner aperitif, and it is delicious The ingedients: Gin. You have it, use your choice. Cointreau. You've got it, perfect. Lillet blanc. You live in NYC, an easy find at a better liquor store. Call first. Pernod (or Herbsaint, or Ricard, or Absente) also generally available. And the deal breaker... fresh lemon juice. The recipe. Not too difficult. 1 oz gin 1 oz Cointreau 1 oz Lillet 1 oz fresh lemon juice. Combine in an iced cocktail shaker. Now the slightly harder part. Take the pastis (Pernod or equiv.) and pour just a tiny bit into its own cap. Take the cap and dribble 1-2-or 3 drops into the shaker. NO more. Cap it, shake like hell, strain into a cocktail (Martini) glass. Taste it. Did this work better you you? --Doc. (eidited for spelllink)

I want to thank everyone who made me feel so at home over with Gary & Mardee's Q&A. The pace of these boards is perfection. The people - you are wonderful. I came to post aquestion for Gary & Mardee, but then was drawn in to the high levels of discourse there, here, and on other boards. eGullet is a gem. I mean, cocktails aside, you have a rum forum hosted by Ed Hamillton! How could I NOT hang around? So I imagine you'll see a bit more of me - until you call last call or 86 me! Again, my thanks. Ted "Dr Cocktail" Haigh

Interest of full disclosure: I didn't match FG with the gin drink (I knew I liked it) or the vodka one (since then I'd ONLY taste the mixers) but was interested in his reaction to the rum version. I, using my seasoned time-tested sensibilities mixed in that zen-like fashion and... got the same reaction FG did. *DOH*. I substituted falernum for the Rose's and all was blissssssss. I'm drinking one now. I know, no falernum at your house. Fee Bros. 1-800-961-3337 Rochester, N.Y. THEY make it. I gave 'em the recipe. Marvelous, thought I WOULD think so. I toast you all! (Did you realise that the Duke of Earl perfectly describes the sort of delusions of grandeur that such drinking as ours is wont to bring on? Z' lovely!) --Doc.

Is this like civil war or something? I love gin (and Bourbon, and rye, and calvados, and marc, and clairin, and mescal, and rye, and rum, and cognac, and armagnac, and scotch, and tequila) but I hate vodka. Nah. We are all drinking. Drink what you will. We love. We are in bliss. OOHm shallamahn! --Doc.