drcocktail

My greetings too! I think there have been enough opinions of ingredient combos upthread for me to need to spout any more of my own. What MIGHT have value to all of us would be to list the ingredients in a really GOOD commercial brand of the past. I'm a huge fan of Scheiffelin's Old House Orange Bitters, last made in the late 60s or early 70s. No proportions are given, of course, but it's a launching pad. Some of you cooks may have commentary on some of these: Caffeine, oil (of) orange, tincture (of) orange peel & the extracts of cusparia, cascarilla, lemon peel, chiretta & ginger. Alcohol 30% (60 proof). Comments? Here's mine: Mmmmm, nummy num zippy! Caffeine right up front. What's THAT all about?! --Doc.

I can't speak to Wishniak. I've heard of, seen refs to... Mainly maraschino is a liqueur of the maraska cherry. Company adopted the name. Luxardo: Italy. Maraska (company): Eastern Europe. NO one knows how to make eaux de vie like those Eastern Europeans! Used to be this guy in Marina del Rey had a still in his basement. From Yugoslavia. Made cherry, grape, peach eaux die vie. Best I ever had. So I use the same critical faculties on maraschino liqueur brands. Honest, at least for my tastes, Maraska wins! --Doc.

I'm with Katie. I want free range olives. --Doc.

CDH is wise beyond his years, if his cocktail/Wired comments attest correctly. Matter of fact, in his testimony, it's the one thing I'd find fault with. Paul Harrington did a great service to the cocktail revival, but I am inclined to believe the rest of the site -and cocktail writing staff- spread every bit as much misinformation as truth. I too am fine with Beefeaters for the casual cocktail - or even the Martini. I really just wanted to illustrate the major difference in gins, there. One's choice can really inform one's drink! Even in something as rarified as rye whiskies, a drink made with Rittenhouse Rye and a drink made with van Winkle Rye are two entirely different animals. Both are good, just opposite ends of the spectrum. Vermouths. All kidding aside, you will benefit from a good sweet vermouth. Carpano is my first choice, Vya, my second. As for dry vermouth, CDH and I agree. Noilly and back up with a bottle of Lillet blanc. You won't regret it. One thing with which I must respectfully disagree is the maraschino liqueur. I much, much prefer the Maraska product to the Luxardo. here is a link. Finally, I must note that you are getting some PARTICULARLY thoughtful answers to your question. I think that I see that you are respecting the experience behind them. Seems like it. You strike me as a good guy. Be careful not to indulge too deeply all at once. Ironic coming from me? Ubetcha! As an aside - thanks, CDH, for the Homeskillet recipe. It sounds like a keeper! --Doc.

Some Euro bartenders do. With Plymouth gin, it was also known as a Marguerite at the beginning of the 20th century. --Doc.

Ooooh, and I hadn't even GOTTEN into the liqueurs - the bulk of my inventory! --Doc.

OK, you firmly want this, and you set the stage. If it is cocktails you want to be versatile with, getting past the base liquors will be easy. Everything everyone yet said is so, but here's an overview, then the zinger: Gin: You'll want 5: Dry and light of juniper (like Bombay Sapphire or Tanq 10) Dry and heavy of juniper (Boodles) Sweet(er) and heavy of juniper (Tanq) Genever, the Dutch gin. Be the first on your block. And Plymouth. In cocktails they all have their places. Once you determine you DON'T need one, you can drop it and sub one of the others. Vodka: Agreed with CheNiPenso. Maybe also a good harsh vodka for drinks requiring a kick. I don't use flavored vodkas so I can't advise about them. If you want to do other than historical cocktails, though, you'll need several varieties. Aquavit is also advised but optional. I like Linie but also have Aalborg for that drier character. Bourbon: Agreed with CheNiPenso, but those are both relatively delicate Bourbons. You might also want the equivalent of the bonded whiskies of old. Old Forrester bonded, or Wild Turkey 101 would fit the bill. Other good inexpensive Bourbons are Old Charter 12 year and Evan Williams. Rye Whiskey: Drier than Bourbon. Many early recipes (Old Fashioned, Sazerac spec rye) Old Overholt is a cheap, good rye. If I want to be REALLY dry about it, I also keep Rittenhouse Rye around. Brandy: Good to have a serious domestic brandy around, and a Cognac of no better than a VSOP grade (we ARE talking cocktails here and the better grades are certainly electives). Calvados: French apple brandy. great to have, many cocktails calling for it are quite tasty. It isn't wholly necessary unlike... Applejack: Pure American apple brandy spirit, kinda like an apple whiskey. I use it in lots of cocktails and it subs ok for Calvados in about 80% of cocktails calling the latter. Eau de vie: For cocktails you can limit yourself to a select few that are called for more often: Kirsch, Framboise, barack palinka, Poire William ought to hold you. Slivovitz for that little extra. Mirabelle is just overkill. Rum: In simplistic terms, you'll need 4: A white rum (take your pick), a "medium" or "gold" rum (Mount Gay or far better, Brugal), a dark rum (Myers's, Pampero, or Bacardi 8 - again, this is cocktails here), and Lemonhart 151 proof Demerara Rum. Tequila: 3 kinds, others better to advise you on the brands: 1 blanco, 1 reposado, 1 anejo. Mescal: Entirely elective. Can be great in cocktails but rarely used that way. Irish Whiskey: Only used in a few cocktails because of its dominant influence - which can get a bit skunky when mixed with other flavors - but you'll want to make Irish Coffees, right? I like John Power for straight and honest, but always have Black Bush around for the more cultured experience. (Said with a faint smile - as is the whole post). Scotch: Cocktails, right? Famous Grouse is a good, solid, inexpensive blended Scotch. If you want a larger selection move to the single malts. Others can advise on brands, but let's just say a range from light to smoky, Macallan to Laphroig. Cocktail wines: Vermouth: Dry vermouth: Noilly Pratt is fine. Sweet vermouth: I 2nd Vya and add Carpano. Local and easy: Cinzano. You'll also need Sherry. They make many different kinds, many different brands. Shades of E.A. Poe, I can make do with a single bottle of Amontillado. Creme Sherry if you INSIST on sweeter. Don't forget Port! A single bottle of Ruby Port will serve you well. For sipping save your $ and choose a better Madiera for less. And the jewel of your crown: Champagne. As it is used in mixed drinks, a poor one will show through. Better spend a little money on this one. Cliquot is great. Bitters: Angostura, Peychaud, orange bitters, Campari, Amer Picon (which you can't get so substitute Torani Amer) and Fernet Branca. You can make almost anything calling for bitters now. For the last 3%, peach bitters. Amer because not making Picon Punch in the summer would just be WRONG. And that also brings to mind Pimm's #1 which you certainly don't want to be without as the mercury climbs. Fernet, well maybe you can skip Fernet. It's in a number of cocktail recipes, but mainly with overdrinking/overeating stomach suffering through a shot of this is a miraculous cure. You could use Unicum too. OK. The above is the EASY part. What really give you cocktail versatility are the liqueurs and mixers. That's a MUCH bigger list. Or should I stop now? --Doc. (Edited because -go figure- I forgot the aquavit and the Pimms.)(And agin fur spulling)

Well, of course it is all a matter of taste, but I have a bottle of Creme Yvette and a bottle of Liqueur de Violette both at hand, and I think you'd agree with me if you sampled them side-by-side as I have. --Doc.

I briefly described the Creme Yvette flavor as reminicent of pastilles. The flavors for the violet liqueur as described by Beans and Audrey sound quite auspicious. I therefore want to hope one more thing...the Yvette had one other thing going for it. It was light. While sweet, it was not heavy and syrupy. This gave the cocktails containing it a certain bounce. A parallel would be maraschino liqueur. It tastes wonderfully fresh, but its body -- its viscosity, its Brix scale -- it's heavy. Well, many great cocktails resulted from its use, but it is, to me, a limitation. I hope the Monin violet liqueur takes a light touch. --Doc.

Oh man, we cocktail nuts are DEEP into the sweetening choices. Besides white sugar and simple syrup I also have on hand turbinado sugar, gum syrup (with gum arabic as an emulsifier) Lyle's Golden Syrup (an invert sugar) Black Treacle, Honey, a BIG ole tub of molasses. Robert, anyone - in 'cooking' sugar, have you experimented between white and brown? Just curious. --Doc.

That's what I meant! (See? It just takes an articulate sorta guy to say what I mean!) Thanks Robert! --Doc.

Drinkboy, I see you lurking! YOU are the king of burnt sugar in bitters in MY book. Why and how do they work for you? --Doc.

It's a big lie. NOTHING doesn't affect flavor. Taste the burnt sugar by itself. Pretty wonderful, eh? Great to tame bitters. "They" add caramel coloring to Cognac. No one will tell ME no flavor shift results! (Hey, maybe a GOOD one!) That said, the section about the burnt sugar was not about flavor -- it was about controling the bitterness, get it? But it all works part-in-parcel! I'm a fan of pith AND skin maceration because I'd add the oils in later even if I WAS only using pith! I'm a MAJOR sucker for using orange oils in almost everything. If you can taste it, I added too much, if not it's like heavily restrained vanilla -- it has a fleshing out action that tends to render 2d flavors in 3d. --Doc.

I am laughing! No, limoncello is something that guy wanted you to MAKE. He wasn't paying attention to the title of the thread. (Unlike ME who always...er, nevermind). Anyway, USE some pith. You WANT bitter! Sure, use that raw and wonderful potato vodka! The molasses you mention will probably have a few members here knocking upon your door too. But do this: go to the grocery store and buy some of at least one of the booster ingredients because, you may get bitter, but you may wonder why you messed with it unless you civilize it with some balancing flavor! --Doc.

I dunno...seems to me that a bit of the pith would, if anything increase the bitterness, and since bitters are what we are discussing... Trick is to make the FLAVOR of an equal footing with the bitterness - and something you can see benefiting, in dashes, an aperitif or a cocktail. I'd think about some small additions of bolstering ingredients to fill out the flavor. Still grapefruity, but perhaps a bit richer. Mint, anis, coriander, orange oil, lemon balm, ginger all have been used as background flavors in bitters. Lemon balm sounds pretty good, and to control the bitterness, perhaps burnt sugar, molasses or invert sugar? You could even do the infusion in rum or brandy for a rounder flavor. Mmmm. Sounding better all the time! --Doc. Edit for spelllink

May I suggest laudanum? That's a LOVELY cocktail of neutral spirits and tincture of opium. And flavoring. It's a little bitter. --Doc.

Well, safest is to order it from them - unless you live in Los Angeles - in which case I can advise you, or NYC in which case I bet someone else can. Otherwise try Fee Bros. 1-800-961-3337 Rochester, N.Y. http://www.feebrothers.com/ In the interests of full disclosure, MY only problem with the peach bitters is lack of bitterness. I've heard from others that they seem more almondy than peachy... but I think they're PERFECTLY peachy! Good Luck! --Doc.

So FG, is this a weekend project, now? We are still interested! Thanks! --Doc.

No replies yet. Couple of things: I am convinced that, in some eastern Euro language Rohol means crude oil. I've narrowed the timeline down to 2000/2001. Then I found this which might explain a lot: Rohol: Sparkling wine aromatized with hemp, traditional method. Curiouser and curiouser! --Doc.

Oh, you mean that rodent/grain alcohol/molasses infusion from a few years ago? Now why wasn't that more POPULAR??? Actually, I am sorry to say I can't find any record. I've kept my Pattersons through the 90s and nothing. But now you have ME fixated on it! *DOH*! It's a little out of my era, but there was one like that for me too - 7 Fruits Liqueur. Finally after YEARS I found a single pamphlet on it but STILL don't know what's in it. I've got two fellas I can ask about Rohol. Let me get to it. --Doc.

Unfortunately, Charbay isn't available everywhere. Right, and that would be a difference. I don't think Morton's uses it - some other citrus spirit - they aren't saying. They DID specify Licor 43, though. Personally I use Scope, T.J. Swann Easy Nights, and Kaopectate. It tastes like hell, but the color's right! --Doc.

I know. I've since perused your website with interest. It was a particularly boneheaded thing for me to say. It's the curmugeonly way. I wear a button that says "Ask me about this button" and when they do, I club 'em and drag 'em off to the cave. Is that so WRONG? Nice design work, by the way. That's my regular paycheck too. --Doc.

Oh, g'wan. You need a bottle of mint bitters just to say you have them! You may be the first to make a palatable cocktail with them! --Doc.

Nope, I'm done, or as we used to like to say in the early days, [/rant]. --Doc. Edit: Oh, one other thing, as far as I can tell, Morton's Key Lime Martini is a LOT like Katie's recipe, but it adds half & half (the dairy kind). --D.

Created IN Mexico, but not Mexican. Actually it was invented by an Italian in Tijuana for the Hollywood resort crowd down there in 1924, or so it is said. --Doc.