PakePorkChop

Exemplary as always, SK! Quick note: The plates from Well Bento seem to be hovering on the edge of, if not in, the plate lunch universe rather than bento. The two features that raise the question are the wait for items to be cooked and the mac salad. What would Darwin say?

As usual, SK, your choice is excellent. I have nothing to add to your comments. Would you venture to establish a dictionary of Hawaiian Cuisine by distinguishing between the bento, plate lunch, and okazuya plate? or has Rachel already accomplished that?

Aloha, SK, pake, foodzealot, rachel, all you foodies out there! Sorry, I haven't had time to plung in for awhile and missed the miscommunication flap resulting from my posting on this thread. Pake, I certainly did not intend any disrespect to anyone and certainly not to you. I was referring to Sensei Yamada's personal history and cooking techniques. The reference to you, if you read the thread carefully, was to ask for your advice as a Okinawa resident and traveler. SK, you and Rachel correctly read my question about the perceived difference between Sensei Yamada's cooking and those of other restaurants in Hawaii. My uneducated guess is that Yamada explores Okinawan haute cuisine, on the one hand, and reflects Asian and/or New York tastes, on the other, while most of the other restaurants are content to serve "traditional" (Okinawan/Local?) dishes, on the other. I have been to Okinawa, Kariyushi, Hatsuneya, and the other dozen Okinawan places in Honolulu and I love 'em all. My next review will be Hanagasa Inn as soon as they bring the minyo band in (yes, Kiyoko "Sandy" Toya is back!). Food Zealot, I'm surprised that you haven't developed a sweet potato dough wrap for the Oki-dog! Take a look at the Anda-dog and see how they do it.

Aloha, SK! Don't forget that there is a Golden Coin in Kalihi and on Liliha Street near the original L & L Drive-in. Both chains tell of a wonderful ethnic mix both in Asia and Hawaii. The present L & L chain, including the growing L & L Hawaiian Barbecue group on the continental US of A, is a collaboration between the Hong Kong-born Johnson Kam and Eddie Flores. Eddie's familly obviously has roots in the Phillipines. The Golden Coin chain in Hawaii is driven by the Uy family, Chinese in the Phillipines. The Liliha location is a master stroke in marketing research. In addition to a growing residential market in the Liliha area, there are also the Filipino work centers at Maluhia, St. Francis, and Kuakini hospitals, as well as the Rehabilitation Center of the Pacific and other health and medical facilities scattered throughout the area. Sheer genius, in my opinion! For an air of authenticilty, I recommend the food stands in the Maunakea Marketplace. Good food at great prices, and you get to see Chinatown in its fullness. For an inexpensive guided walking tour, call the Chinese Chamber of Commerce, 533-3181.

SK, another great column and thanks for the kind words! I'm going to take a chance here and surface some issues that have been brewing for some time in the Okinawan food community. I raise them as a means of discovering food traditions and not to stir up rivalries or ill feelings. As you know, Hawaii has the oldest and largest Okinawan community in the United States of America. The immigrants brought early cooking traditions with them. Sensei Yamada, formerly of Kariyushi and now of Hatsune-ya, reportedly was born of Okinawan parents in Taiwan and received cooking instruction in New York and Okinawa. This personal history, in some minds, does not yield Okinawan dishes that suit traditional or local (Hawaiian) tastes. I would be very interested in hearing from knowledgable and experienced travelers, such as Pake, about their views and experiences in relation to these issues. If commentars and reviewers wish to abstain, I will understand.

Aloha! I have a few moments, so I wanted to "tweak" the timeline posed by Irwin. While I agree with the stature that Irwin has accorded to McCully Chop Suey, the credit for the modernization of Chinese Cuisine in Hawaii should be awarded to an earlier Mon Lui establishment, Mok Larn Chien. I should also note that Mon Lui recently passed away; his funeral services were held just last week and an institution has truly passed. Back then, new items were also being introduced in other restaurants. In 1954, Wah Duck Young opened King’s Garden in Kaimuki and offered a delicious suckling pig and spicy “fragrant” duck. Hong Yee “Blackie” Wong imported Alaskan king crab and served it with black bean sauce to eager customers at New Star Chop Suey. The restaurant sign (a giant crab) cost 800 dollars, a large expense at that time. Chinese food became widely popular in the local community. Wishing to prepare these dishes for themselves and their families at home, many sought recipes and took cooking classes. Gail Wong wrote “Authentic Chinese Recipes” in 1954, followed by YWCA cooking teacher Gail Li Sia’s publication in 1956. Preparing for a growth of tourism, the Hilton Hawaiian Village recruited chef Dai Hoy Chang, who had been cooking at Lau Yee Chai since 1938. He opened the Golden Dragon Room in 1958, and it subsequently became a full-scale restaurant. Statehood in 1959 brought larger commercial and social investments to Hawaii. The pace and quality of life was heightened, and Chinese culinary establishments expanded to meet this market. McCully Chop Suey was the first Chinese restaurant to offer air-conditioning. Along with Golden Duck and Diamond Chop Suey, it attracted University of Hawaii students for late night snacks after study hours in the new Sinclair Library. Yong Sing ventured into the downtown financial district in 1966 to offer business lunches. Patti’s Chinese Kitchen introduced Chinese fast food when they opened at Ala Moana Center in 1967, and the Wong Family offered a sit-down alternative to center shoppers with the Coral Reef. The beginning of dramatic culinary development followed the enactment by the Congress of the United States of the Immigration Act of 1965, which raised the quotas of immigrants from Taiwan, Hong Kong, and the Peoples Republic of China. When Moon Palace opened in 1965, (on the former site of Sun Yun Wo), it heralded the arrival of the Hong Kong style of presentation. The noodles and dumplings were smaller and more delicate than those offered at older Cantonese-style restaurants. By the late 1960’s, immigration from Taiwan and northern parts of China had increased significantly. There was growing interest in cuisine from regions in China other than the southern Cantonese and Hong Kong styles. The first “northern” Chinese restaurant in Honolulu, Winter Garden, opened at Kahala Mall in 1969. The owners were from Shanghai but served the Szechuan and Hunan styles as well. Paradise Garden followed in 1970 on Kalakaua Boulevard, serving Peking-style dishes. A five-table establishment operated by the wife of a University of Hawaii professor, the small shop offered pungently spiced dishes to crowds of diners. The novelty was such that customers happily stood in line waiting for an available table. Another early northern restaurant was Szechuan Mandarin Cuisine in Palama, opening in 1971. In 1973, James Liu introduced his version of the Shandong style at Beijing, which he managed, and then opened the Mandarin, where meat, fowl and fish were blast-fried or braised with heavier preparations of onion, garlic, and chili. In the restaurant’s private room, Professor Daniel Kwok and Honolulu Star-Bulletin editor Hobart Duncan began a new dining club called the West Lake Society. Normalization of relations with China and President Nixon’s historic trip to Beijing in 1972 elevated the prestige of Chinese cuisine and stimulated interest in this culinary art. Arline Hoe, after closing Dragon Pearl in 1969, developed the Asian and Chinese Culinary Arts program at the Pensacola campus of Kapiolani Community College. Many contemporary Chinese chefs, including Russell Siu, Sam Choy, and Harry Yim, received their early training in her program. Titus Chan, who had developed a popular cooking show for Hawaii public television, rode the crest of this interest when he was syndicated nation-wide in 1973. The companion book for the series, “Cooking the Chan-ese Way”, was released in 1975. More Hong Kong-style restaurants opened. The Oceania, a floating restaurant modeled after similar restaurants in Hong Kong’s Aberdeen area, was brought with great fanfare to Honolulu Harbor in 1972. Adjacent to Ala Moana Center, China House became the place for mall shoppers to rest and snack on noodles and dumplings. The western China style from Szechwan matured at the Maple Garden in 1975. In addition to the now ubiquitous mah po tofu, hot and sour soup, and smoked tea duck, owner Robert Hsu offered a northern-style breakfast menu based on soy milk, “dou jiang”. Accompanied by roast cakes, “shao bing”, deep-fried crullers “yu tiao”,and other pancakes, buns, and condiments, it is one of the more unusual Chinese dining experiences available in Honolulu. The southern Chiu Chao and Hakka styles were also brought here with varying success. Also in 1975, the Lau family adapted the San Francisco-style baked bun at Royal Kitchen. One of the original tenants at the Mun Fa Chinese Cultural Plaza, their new buns with varied fillings became popular inter-island gift items. Also at the plaza, the Empress became the largest Chinese restaurant in the state, offering a venue for large parties outside of Waikiki at reasonable prices and with free parking. For a more detailed timeline of the Hong Kong initiation to Honolulu cooking, go to http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...04_tmasters.htm Kai Lan attracted crowds to its tiny Liliha Street location in 1977 with its initiation of Hong Kong-style live seafood, such as clams in black bean sauce. Raymond Chau followed the next year with the opening of Won Kee and his Hong Kong-style crab and lobster. Chinese Menu offered similar items in 1979 to University area patrons. In 1980, the Great Wok of China opened in the Royal Hawaiian Shopping Center. It was the first and probably only Chinese restaurant in Hawaii to offer close-up wok cooking in a configuration similar to Japanese teppan-yaki. As the return of Hong Kong from the British Commonwealth to China loomed, in-migration from the Crown Colony increased and Honolulu restaurants positioned themselves to meet the new arrivals. Dim sum parlors proliferated. China House, Panda Cuisine, and Royal Garden formed one cluster near Ala Moana Shopping Center. Ting Yin, Sea Fortune and Cheung Kee competed for Chinatown customers while Empress was joined by Legend at the Chinese Cultural Plaza. Chan’s had the University area to itself and Hee Hing ruled in Kapahulu; Eastern Garden slipped in between them at lower Waialae Avenue. Eastern Garden then established a Pearl City branch and went after the Waikiki market with Beijing, Seafood Village, and Shanghai Garden. Similarly, Yong Sing faced downtown competition with Hong Kong Harbourview at the Aloha Tower Marketplace. Forum recruited a Hong Kong chef, Kwok Wah Chan, in 1992 and earned a reputation for fine Cantonese cuisine. With the acquisition of the only cabaret license in the down-town/ Chinatown area and the introduction of Chinese karaoke, it was poised as a unique food and entertainment location. Increasing in-migration from other regions in China prompted the emergence of different cooking styles in snack shops and food malls. Ja Ja, Fu Mei and Café Paulina were early purveyors of Taiwan food items, particularly the soup and noodles that are characteristic of the Fukienese style. These items are now offered at Dew Drop Inn and KC Kitchen. Cuisine from Singapore and Malaysia, including Straits Chinese or “Nonya” food, first appeared at Peter Germain’s I in Kapahulu in the early 1980’s, followed by Chet Chua’s Orient Fare, then Café 33, Fu Lu Shou, Shirley’s Pantry, Hannah’s Kitchen ,Tsuru Diner, Noodles Express. and New Century Restaurant Limited menus are now available at Triple One in the Maunakea Marketplace. I'd love to gossip about Singapore Bistro and HeiChinRou but that will await another column!

Another wonderful column, SK! I had briefly mention Kit n' Kitchen in an artical I wrote in 2002. The owner-chef is Chun Kit Yiu, who had been the long-time sous chef for Angelo Pietro. Thus the similarity! Chun left Angelo Pietro, went to Hong Kong, and established his first Kit n'Kitchen there. He subesequently transplanted his concept in Honolulu. For the article and a picture of his signature gratin, go to http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...2_hkceewest.htm btw, Chun also trained Wai Leung "Dave" Wong, former part-owner of New Century restaurant on Nuuanu Avenue and probably still the sous chef at Arancino. For a bit on Wong's former restaurant, go to the end of http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...04_tmasters.htm

Aloha, everyone! Just got back from Zhu Sam Guo (Pearl River Delta), with eats in Hong Kong, Zhuhai, Sanxiang, Changan, Punyu, and Shenzhen. Gained five pounds in eleven days! With the Champon/Jampong history, I have to go with the narrative evidence and hypothesize that the dish originated in Nagasaki. This hypothesis projects that Koreans exposed to the dish in Japan then requested the mixed seafood noodle dish from Shandong restaurants in Korea and were provided with Sou Ma Men, a very similar dish, at that point then dubbed Jampong. For some exploration of the subject, go to: http://www.worldramen.net/Varietion/Champon.html

Aloha, gang! Thanks for the kind words! I'm off to China this morning, so I can't post as much as I would like to, as I haven't found a suitcase and have yet to pack. Irwin mentions McCully Chop Suey. As the footnote in the Waikiki Lau Yee Chai article noted, McCully Chop Suey was the innovation of restaurateur Mon Loui, who had started as a waiter for P.Y. Chong at Lau Yee Chai, helped to manage famous Mok Larn Chien, and went on to establish Hon Kung, Inn of the Sixth Happiness, and the Oceania, among others. McCully Chop Suey was the first air-conditioned Chinese restaurant in Hawaii, and in 1959 it was the special favorite of the new breed of U.H. students studying late at the bright brassy Sinclair Library. Imho, it went downhill after Mon Loui sold it and has only recently begun a revival. The second place that Irwin mentions as being on Hotel Street sounds like Mrs. Ho's Kitchen, famous for its soups and dumplings. China House was indeed a pioneer led by Wilfred Young and his partners. The airline hotel restaurant would be Mandarin Palace. The gentleman he refers to is probably Tony Ng, and that restaurant could possibly be the high water mark of Chinese cooking in Hawaii. That story would be found in this article: http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...04_tmasters.htm Master chef Wing Hui Pui, as the article notes, is now in Las Vegas. He is the Executive Chef for the Mansion at the MGM Grand, a 29 room facility built at the cost of $250 million. You do not register for a room; you can only be invited to stay. 50% of the clients are Asian whales. For a vision of that world, see: http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Ar...322,246,00.html Be sure to read the second article, which speaks of the great chef. Well, gotta start packing. I'll catch up when I get back. Good eating, gang, and thanks again!

KarenS, I think that we have a common meeting ground, and I want you to recognize that there is a huge population out there in Hawaii that just does not eat like the people that your work with. I don't contest that certain ethnic groups, younger people, and visitors (who fuel many of the fast food outlet openings) need to review their nutritional philosophies. Nevertheless, there's a lot going on here in Hawaii, in the Chinatown and ethnic markets, that contemporary writers are not acquainted with and attuned to. Glory, glory, to ethnic cuisines, which reach their culmination in Hawaii!

I guess this thread is re-examining the statistics indicating that Hawaii's people are the longest-lived in the nation. Before commenting about diet, we need to look at genetics and life-style. It seems to me that it takes a certain kind of human to end up here in the most isolated landfall in the world. The proto-polynesians came out of Southeast Asia on sailing canoes, skirted Australia, and ventured into into the east and central pacific. The europeans circumnavigated the globe on sailing ships to get here, as did the Boston traders. Asian, European, and American immigrants all ventured thousands of miles to this unknown land for opportunity. Without any scientific basis, I'm going to make a claim that some very tough and hardy people came to live in Hawaii. And how do they live? Whenever I return from a trip to Europe, America, or Asia, I'm always struck by the laughter and musicality of the society as soon as I emerge from the plane. Cool tradewinds, laughter and music... it's Aloha Friday! and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and so forth. Try that in Manhattan, where you work your secretary to midnight on weekdays, all day Saturday, and go in Sunday to clean up and prepare for the next week. Having a tough, hardy people living in balmy weather with laughter, sunshine, flowers, and music will do wonders for life expectancy, even with diet issues. But I won't concede the diet discussion. Hawaii eats three times the national average of seafood. Will you find tofu, bittermelon, and seaweed, all acknowledged restoratives, in Wisconsin, Kansas, and Missouri? We have 50,000 Okinawans in Hawaii, many eating what is postulated as the healthiest in the world, representing the largest Okinawan community in the United States. Chinese may not raise "local" crops, but their consumption of cabbages, root vegetables, and sprouts is huge. Ditto for Koreans, Filipinos, Vietnamese, and others. Hawaii is the soup noodle capitol of the U.S. of A, pound for pound, person for person. The balanced blend of protein, vegetable, and starch topping in a rich simmered broth is almost medicinal in effect. Don't be misled by the excesses of fast food and drive in offerings. They do exist, and Hawaii has large health issues (I intend to discuss the matter of "Polynesian Markets" in the future), but there is a lot going on here with just plain folks preparing their everyday meals. And all the while they are singing, humming, and laughing.

I knew of only one Indian restaurant in the immediate vicinity of the Hilton Village. Zaffron Restaurant had an outpost on Ena Road but it is now closed. The other Indian restaurants (India Bazaar, Maharani, India House, India Cafe) are near the university area and two others (Zaffron, Govinda's) are in the downtown direction, so you may have to use your car if you want to eat Indian food. Maybe SK or kaukaulesa have a new one on Waikiki Island?

It appears that General Tso's Chicken emerged from the Hunan restaurants in America that are found primarily in the eastern U.S. of A. Hunan cuisine being a close cousin of Szechuan cooking, just go to Maple Garden, the Szechuan restaurant in Honolulu, and voila! General Tso's chicken! I am told that the dish is known by other names in China because General Tso's methods of quelling insurrection was not exactly p.c. and therefore not appropriate for culinary memorialization. As for the seafood soup, I've seen it spelled jampong for the Korean version and champon for the Nagasaki version. As far as I can tell, neither word has a meaning in either language other than as a reference to Chinese seafood-topped noodle soup. The Nagasaki version is said to have been invented by a Chinese restaurant owner for hungry students. The Japanese say that "champon" is derived from the Chinese word for "let's eat". The Fukienese Chinese dialect would pronounce "let's eat" as "chapon" or "japon", so that explanation is quite plausible. It would then seem that Koreans returning to Korea after eating Champon would ask for it in Chinese restaurants back home, the vast majority of which are owned and operated by Chinese from Shandong province. The Shandong people do not have any dish called Champon but they do have a dish call sou ma min, which is made by first stir-frying seafood, vegetalbles, and other ingredients before adding the mix to noodles and topping everything with a broth. That dish, Koreanized with, what else, chile is what is served as Korean Jampong. Thus, you can find this dish (sou ma mein) in Honolulu at the Mandarin Restaurant (with James Liu, the father of Shandong Cuisine in Honolulu), Eastern Paradise, and Wang's Garden. It is also found at the Peking Restaurant, which is Korean owned and operated, under its Korean name, jampong. And I don't believe you can find it at a Korean restaurant in Honolulu because, after all, champong is a Chinese dish invented in Japan! For another view of sou ma mein, see: http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...oownoodles2.htm

oops! Sorry, SK, I forgot about the Fodors registration procedure! Most of the threads on Fodors have to do with travel, destination accomodations, etc. Every so often an inquiry will be made about breakfast spots, honeymoon dinners, fish houses, and the like. btw, I will be emailing the El Charro pictures to you. If we wait for me to get educated in picture-posting, we may be old and gray!

Wow, that's a big one, Lopaka! Sorry, gang, I sent the wrong link. This should be it: http://www.fodors.com/forums/postreply.jsp...hText=loco+moco

Jason, you may be interested in this Fodor's link: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect....=100&dirtyBit=1 A classic discussion of Loco Moco and a dozen other related food issues!

I spent some time in KL, Ipoh and Melaka (for food, of course). Malaysia should be right up there, as chile is the country's biggest crop. How much it affects the cuisine, however, depends on the type of chile (different from the Thai preference) and how much is exported. Remember also that East Malaysia is on the island of Borneo, along with Brunei and parts of Indonesia. As with the other Malay cuisines of Indonesia and the Philippines, Malaysia can produce some spicy cuisine, but the really hot stuff is reserved for condiments, rather than added to the dish in large amounts while cooking. It's likely that the South Indian influence does not reach Borneo as strongly as it does Thailand. Also, Borneo is close to the Spice Islands in Eastern Indonesia, so the variety of flavoring was quite extensive. Thus, the cooking of Sarawak and Sabah would moderate Malaysian cuisine.

Mongo initially asked two questions: 1. Which is the spiciest cuisine ON THE WHOLE? 2. Which cuisine has the spiciest dish? The answer to the second question, as many have suggested, is entirely subjective and fosters the sharing of individuals' memories over different years and miles. The answer to the first question necessarily involves per capita comparison. Korean dishes, taken by themselves, may not be extremely spicy. When such dishes are eaten in complementary combination morning, noon, and night, however, they are exceeded only by the Thais and Indians, and followed by the Mexicans.

Excellent article and pictures! It will be interesting to see if anyone cares to elaborate on your humble opinion. Comparative remarks about the Indian restaurants in Hawaii have been a long time in coming.

Aloha, you'all. I don't dispute that there may be individual or regional dishes in different countries that may qualify as the spiciest dish ever. It would be very difficult to compare these dishes, as each one of us have followed different paths in our culinary adventures. I have traveled and eaten in Thailand, Malaysia, Szechuan, and Mexico, among other Lands of Fire, and it would be impossible for me to contend that a particular dish that I tasted was hotter than anything that someone else consumed in another country. What I was suggesting is that the evaluation of a national cuisine, an aggregation of all regional cuisines in that country, necessarily involves the gross product of powerful chiles used by all of the people. In that respect, China is low on the list, and I suggest that Mexico, with its variety of chiles and the influence of France and Spain upon its cuisine, would be lower than Thailand and Korea. Mongo, you are right about kim chee, and you probably know that kim chee is only the beginning in Korean cuisine. I've never seen redder soups than Korea's. Except for soups on the Red Planet, of course.

India is by far the largest producer of chile peppers in the world, but you need to consider its large population as a factor of this gross product. The people of Thailand consume an average of five grams of hot peppers per person per day, more than twice the average in India. Koreans are close behind the Thais, eating more than twelve ounces of chile-spiced kim chee every day. The cuisine of Szechuan and Hunan does not have as many spicy dishes, but some can be extremely hot. Mexican food is only occasionally spicy and, even then, moderately so. For some other features, see: http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...rhcpihawaii.htm

Fafaru. Put fish into clean seawater, let stand for days, strain the remains of fish and keep the SEAWATER. Soak seafood in water from ten minutes to eight hours, to taste. Slice and serve. Although a popular dish (the water is bottled and sold in stores), airline regulations forbid the substance aboard the craft because of the aroma. Fafaru was served to Survivor contestants and several were penalized because they refused to eat it. For delicious details, see: http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...fajatpphigh.htm

Well, it looks like I'm wandering into this discussion way late and I probably won't get any response, but you never know! First, I have some experience with the liquor industry and it seems to me that the Prohibition era has definetely left its mark on America. I don't know of any other country that cedes control of alcoholic beverages to individual states, resulting in my wandering in Pittsburgh to find a six-pack of beer in a supermarket (easy come, easy go in Hawaii) only to discover that the beverage is only sold in government establishments in Pitt, PA. In Japan, you can get a can of beer from a vending machine! But we're stuck with the system, constitutional amendment and all that My question is, anybody have an opinion about Flunch in France and Autogrille in Italy?

I don't know whether there was a standard traditional preparation for lomi oi'o. I have seen recipes that use inamona (ground roasted kukui nut kernel), limu kohu (a reddish-brown variety of seaweed used in Hawaiian cuisine), and dried opa'e (freshwater shrimp). As with ia nahu pu or poke, there may have been a sprinkling of pa'akai (sea salt). As other peoples came to Hawaii, I imagine that they added slices of round or green onion. You can find lomi oi'o at the Kekaulike open market or better yet, Haili's Hawaiian Foods at the Ward Farmer's Market, along with the delicacies ake (raw beef liver) and palu (shall we say... aged fish parts?). Now that's sooome Native eating!

Although lomi salmon (massaged spiced salmon) uses imported salmon, the technique would seem to be native, as with lomi oio. We cannot forget the older items, such as ia nahu pu, from which the more contemporary poke would seem to be derived, and the more exotic palu, and its South Pacific cousin, fafaru. For a more descriptive narrative, visit: http://www.hawaii.rr.com/leisure/reviews/a...fajatpphigh.htm