Kim WB

Boy, if I tried this with a buzz, the smoke alarm would be howling, I'm afraid!!

Well, I guess I see it from a Kim, the diner perspective..but I was trying to be more objective, listing the pro and cons...I mean, for some people saving money might not be a pro...it's all subjective. I just thought there might be additional pros and cons out there..such as yours, looking to "use up" your wine cellar...which is a very legitimate reason for preferring a BYO, in my opinion. There are different types of business entertaining, and Iassure you, the kind that the people I work with expect cannot be done in a BYO..unless I carted in bottles of Glen Livett, Vodka, little onions, etc. I know people think I hate BYO's, but that's not the case. There are a few I am quite fond of, and my husband and I enjoy regularly...there is an Italina strip mall place a few minutes away that makes great veal and pasta dishes, we go at least twice a month. And a new favorite sushi place in Princeton keeps the sake cups there for us, we just bring in the bottle. So when I point out something like glasses, I understand its not a major inconveneince, but it can be, for some people, a negative. I'm interested in learning more "PRO's", because I've always thought saving money was the primary reason people prefer them, and I am willing to be proven wrong!

thanks you..looking for an upscale, high end place..does this fit the bill? Thanks for your response.

From a diners perspective, this is how I see it: Pro: 1.save money 2. know that you'll have a bottle you like 3.opportunity to pair your best bottles with professionally prepared food Con: 1.cannot use in a business entertaining situation 2.without research, cannot be sure what you bring will match food 3.If interested in apperatifs, cocktails, brandy, etc, you need to bring scotch, grand marnier, etc. 4. Usually get lousy wine service and lousy glasses 5. Have to shlep the wine and trimmings with you ok, what did I miss?

I've gone to Fuji in that area, for sushi. (BYO) Good Fish, but not worth the haul..Asejhi in Princeton is equal.

I didn't mean to imply that it was in my order of favorites, because what makes one a favorite over another to me is that I am a regular visitor of one, due to proximity, so its my favorite. Not sure when you were last at Stage Left...it has gone up quite a few notches in the last year, including service, atmosphere and food. It was never on my list, but is a recent addition, after three fantastic meals, both as host to a party of eight, four and as a duo. I'll bend a bit on Washington Inn..it's always been visited whilst in the throes of a relaxing vacation, just my tanned, relaxed husband and myself, with champagne on the deck before hand..so perhaps my impression of that restaurant is a bit romanticized...otherwise, we're not too far apart it seems, Bunny. We can get into "second rung" places, but that would really be a list that's all over the place! Because there would be some places that are equal to the food of some of the top rung, but the environment doesn't reflect "high end"...such as Palace of Asia, or Karen and Rei's.

Mark, it's such a big store, and my WEgman's has the Chipoltes both by the chips, and by the pickles. Anyway, e-mail the website with any specific product inquiries, the local store manager will e-mail you back location, delivery, etc. For those of you considering going on opening day...DO! Yes, crowded, yes, overwhelming...but the party atmospherre is warranted..you've got a NEW Wegman's in town! REally, I almost wish for the first time I walked into Wegman's to be repeated..cause its been so long since I felt that "I'm in DISNEYLAND" feeling since being a real live adult, if you know what I mean.

thanks, Tom kaminskis sounds authentic ad right up our alley..and I'll print out your response for our next trip there. Thank you!! (Funny, my youngest son did competitive gymnastics for a season...I remember a few Cherry Hill meets...he had to decide between Gymnastics and Theatre..he was running me ragged...and its hard to find any kind of boys gymnastics after age 12...very few places have boys teams. So, theatre it was. Danny Zuko in the New Jersey Reperatory Theatre version of Kid's "Grease". Yes, I'm bragging. Summer lovin.....

There is a gay bar in New Hope, PA, whcih is called the Raven. While most of the other restaurants and bars in this gay dominated enclave are for anyone with greenbacks or platinum cards, the Raven stil maintains its exclusivity..generally an older, subdued crowd, couples mostly, I would hazard to guess the generation that have experienced ignorance and prejudice first hand, in their day, and so gravitate to this comfortable, local hang out. It's one of the few places I've felt uncomfortable in...not becasue they made me feel excluded, but rather that I felt intrusive. Great martinis, the bartender explained that they filter the ice two times.

Hi..going to a wine tasting at Hyatt@Penns landing..a last minute schedule change allows us to dine out afterwards, rather than head back to Princeton. Tried to get into Vetri's, I'm on the wait list. Using the Zagat, I made a reservation at DiPalma's...its close by the Hyatt and the Manager at the Hyatt, a bus associate, reccommended it a while ago. Looking for Opinions...four people, 8:30 ish reservation, not ethnic or fish eaters, ( the men, at least), so while steakhouse is always an option, I thought an Italian place with a strong list of STuscan's might be anice finish...your input, please!

Yeah, my son's first year on the Crew tTeam, so I' m learning all the hot river spots! Along with terminology like "crab" "skull" and "coxswain". Schuykill is lovely, we dash out between races into Philly and grab a bite...Looking for a good pub/bar with good bar food. Serving dark ales and lagers a plus...not ethnic, and if it has both a good burger and decent salads, that's a plus, too. Thanks, Tom

I don't htink there are ten "high end" restaurants in NJ..by my personal definition only. There are certainly 10 restaruants with "excellent" food...but not the whole package... However, RN, Ryland, Rats, Stage Left, Stage House Inn, perhaps Wash Inn in Cape May...that's my list. I love, for example, Hamilton Grill Room in Lambertville..great food, great atmosphere, but a little too casual ( even though its not casual, if that makes sense) and no LL...but I just don't htink of it as a high end dining experience. I'm comparing these to Gramercy, Trotter's, Auereole, Le Bec Fin, Striped Bass..a few places that I think of as high end. Just my opinion, to reiterate!

Although I rarely find myself in disagreement with you, Kim, here's one. I think Scalini Fedeli in Chatham was an exceptionally fine place prior to the license, just as Il Mondo Vecchio still is. It's exceptionally difficult to win without wine and liquers, but the combination of a well stocked personal cellar and an advance peek at the menu / special offerings might do the trick. I know this was going to bring out all you BYO defenders! ( my smileys don't work, insert one here! LOL) I know I am a minority on this board about BYO's...and I know there are some wonderful ones, even some expensive ones, but no one will convince me that they can be considered a high end ( to me this means serious about food, service, wines, atmosphere, not price) dining expereince. And again, I respect how much you all like them, I've enjoyed a few as well, but high end to me means "special", and shlepping wines and ports and mini bottles of gran marnier is not high end anything! LOL! SCalini is on my list to visit, now that they have the LL, but talk about a shlep! ( insert smirky face here! ) I have two or three BYO's that I go to frequently, so I'm not saying there is not a place for them...indeed, a valid, valuable place...but not as part of what I consider high end dining. IMHO, of course!

I'm with ya compadre...ours is called Bolla Pasta...owned by the most affluent and well-respected Italian restaurant owning family in Memphis. And it too is located in the best part of town...and probably like your restaurant the mutherfucker flourishes...sheeps to slaughter...doesn't it taste nice...... I am of the opinion that there is a place in the restaurant hierarchy for a good, family pasta place..silly names aside. It does seem strange that a high end place cannot flourish as well in some of the communities you all have mentioned...I guess rents, LL, competition all come into play. And sorry, I will never consider a BYO to be a high end place...great food, yes..but a high end place, to me, is a full service, full liquor license establishment that encompasses the entire dining experience. Where I can dine for three hours, apperatif to port...without bringing a mini cellar with me.

Do you think there is a market for a high end restaurnat? I don't know N Jersey Real estate, but if a family/couple/individual has the resources to buy a 600k townhouse, plus maintenance, I would look to feed them!! ( Man, that's a lot of cash for not owning property! Gotta love NJ!!..Are the schools good? Sorry, the realtor in me coming out! LOL!) What I'm saying is that the highest end restaurants in the state, agreing with the RN, Rats, Ryland list..are near affluent areas of the state. And if you are looking to have a thriving business of that kind of plae, you should try to locate it near where the $$$ is. Regarding the bistro: I wonder if these more casual bistro type prices are mostly a reaction to the general national economy, and to providing a casual atmosphere, as much as being a result of a specific location..don't know. Seems strange that Ryland would skip lunch...all those Pharmaceutical companies up there, and that is one industry that is still doing well, I think???

"stellar" and "associate taster"

I'm sorry, but I suspect that you might not be as aware of the surrounding areas of at least two of thsoe places. I went on my Realtor software, just to be sure I wasn't inventing stuff.....the average sale price of a home within 10 miles from Whitehouse, NJ, is 645k. Perhaps you only see the Ryland Inn, but just a hop skip and a jump away are extensive housing developments. And there have always been pharmaceutical companies ther with a strong lunch demand. Most likely, you go to Rat's via 295, through the industrial center of Hamilton by the train station...but take 295 to 195, and within 10 minutes you're in Hopewell township, where the newest development starts at 790k without upgrades...I know I'm using housing prices too much, but that's my point of reference...I stand by my theory that the 20mile radius population supports the restaurant, and the "destination diners" are cream on the coffee, so to say. I certainly agree that the places you mentions ARE destination places, just not that it is this clientele that supports them. ALSO, I then reiterate my origianl post, which is that even thought the folks in these homes have money, they don't necessarily have disposable income. My smileys do not work. or I would add one. Neither does my bold or underline, not sure what happened, on day they worked, next they did not.

Well, its not the SOLE reason a high end restaurant might make it or break it, but if you are looking to develop a place with a high end wine list, and upscale price points, let's agree that it makes sense to put it in an area where there is sufficient disposable income to support it. Yes, lots of other variables..but it seems to me, if this one variable is not in place, you're taking off from behind the starting line.

Yep, Mediterra is a nice lunch place.."American sized "tappas, a bit too much IMHO, but well prepared, fresh, strong flavors.

I know the Princeton Store, in the location on Palmer Square that closed, used to have a sign thatthe IC was made on premises. I am pretty darn sure about that..

Yes, its wonderful that a heavy population of groups brings such great, authenitc restaurnts to an area...but Rail Paul was wondering about high end places, and while the Iselin restaurants are succeeding, I don't see their clientle as the same market who might take Route 9 over to 35 and visit RN.

Ryland Inn is located in the county with the single biggest residential growth in NJ...over 8000 new homes within the last 24 months, , average asking price 440k. Rat's is located in the 4th largest municipality in the state, Hamilton Township, so while it is a shlep for N. Jersey folks, it is easily accessible to a densly packed area...295 is the most heavily travelled interstate, if I recall from something I read but I might be wrong. Amanda's is also in a densly populated area, but the dense population is in walking distance, so the parking issue is only relevant to some. Out of Rosie's list, RN seems to be succeeding despite its location...neither densly populated, nor is it in a pretty area that can be considered "destination dining"...like the Sculpture Gardens at Rats or the "Inn" feeling at Ryland. But, I second Rosie's bias of restaurants on Highways.

I'd like to also add, to Paul's list, that affluence, as defined by disposable income, matters. I am not sure that the general public realizes how many of these McMansions don't have living room furniture, and people are so cash-poor after their mortgage payment, that there is not a lot left for dining out. 50% of my closings in the Princeton area are for couples with young kids, who figure they will "grow" into the mortgage, often one income, they want the schools, the new construction, the nice car..but it doesn't leave a lot at the end of every month. I'd also like to add the impact of specific ethnic communities to an area. There are a number of towns in the Southern Middlesex, Mercer County area of Central NJ that are 33% Asian and Indian. These new residents tend to cook at home more, and dine out less. There are often mutli-generational families, and food preperation is always fresh...if a dual income family can come home to a home cooked healthy meal, specified to their preferred taste and diatary restrictions, then the need to dine out is reduced. Finally, the people I know have so little down time, and people with kids feel guilty if they hire a babysitter after not really having time with their kids all week. And despite what many restaurants say, and the vocal group that always proclaim that their children have been fine dining since age 2, the truth is chain restaurants are kid friendly, and a Red Bank Brassaire is not.

There are a few. Mauin Street in the Princeton Shoppping Center on Harrison. Ajeshi and Nassau sushi are both gems. Therese's is predictable, but has a handful of winners on the menu. Hogie Haven and Chuck's wings for downscale delicious. Masala grill is wonderful, too. Conte's pizza is hte best, IMHO. Those are in the borough..there are a few more in the township, and nearby towns.

Hi Mark..saw this today...we were planning to head over there after watching my son row in Camden...but the rower behind him lost control of hi oar, and it hit Connor on the upper shoulder...the bruising was immediate,and he was sore oall over, so instead of him taking the bus back to school and us heading to the Fest, we brought him home for some R and R. Great weather, I hope you had a good time.