scott123

Iron frying pan (1/8" thick) heated to 600 deg. Distance from english muffin: 1" Duration: 4 minutes There you have it. Browning. And this was with just the heat of the 1/8" pan. No heat coming from the bottom oven burner OR heat coming from a pre-heated hearth. I was putting my hand above the frying pan every minute or so and noticed that it lost a lot of it's punch pretty quickly. That lost of heat won't happen as quickly with a 1/2" steel slab. With a 1/2" steel slab, a bottom burner at full blast and a stone hearth heated to the same temp, I expect more than enough browning/charring for my needs.

But doesn't heat impact temperature? A body's ability to emit radiation depends entirely on it's surface temperature. It's surface temperature, in turn, is 'fed' by the energy stored in it's core traveling to it's cooler exterior- it's heat capacity. If, for instance, you take a little piece of steel and a larger piece of steel, ten times it's weight (with about the same surface area), and heat both until glowing red, when the heat is turned off, the larger piece will glow longer. That longer glow relates to it's greater heat capacity, does it not? Even though, at 550 deg. f., the glow of the steel and brick isn't visible to the naked eye, it's still there. The steel should glow brighter for a shorter period of time than the firebrick, because it's surface temp will be bolstered by energy flowing faster from the core to the exterior. I know that as materials glow red, their radiative output increases dramatically, but I don't think it's that far fetched to theorize the possibility that sub glowing materials of sufficient heat and conductivity might put off enough radiation to brown bread. Let's say, for the sake of argument, I had a cube of aluminum weighing a ton that I was able to heat to 550. Could I toast a piece of bread 2" away? Being aluminum, it's going to lose heat very quickly, but, assuming I move incredibly fast to get the bread in place, would it toast? If one can store heat in thick materials for conductive purposes, can't one also store heat for radiative purposes as well?

Ray, the average oven shelf will support a 1/2" steel slab cut to allow for about 1/2" wall clearance on all sides. I know this because I put 1 1/4" soapstone slabs in ovens all the time and soapstone is a little less than half the density of steel. A peel will be used. Working with a peel with 5" of vertical space takes some getting used to, and is not without the threat of an unintended calzone or two, but there's no physical danger.

Okay, so if heat capacity doesn't make much difference, then you're telling me that I can take two 2" thick slabs, one of steel and one of brick, put them next to each other, preheat them to 550 deg., open the door quickly put a hand under each about 2" away, and both hands will get about the same heat? And, that, because neither item is 'red-hot' neither hand will burn? Is that what you're saying?

As I said before, it's a broiler-less main gas oven chamber- the broiler is in a separate compartment below. From top to bottom. Oven ceiling Steel slab on top shelf Firebrick on shelf 5" below that (with 1/2" to 1" clearance on all sides) Oven floor with vents Heating element Below that, of course, is the broiling chamber, but I'm not using that for pizza. I'm attempting to recreate the intense heat of a broiler without a broiler in the main chamber.

http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/special/2004/onfood/milk.html Do a search on the page for 'Whey Proteins.' It's that section where he talks about lactoglobulin, the most abundant whey protein, which happens to be denatured by heat at 172 deg. f. He also talks about acid coagulation and whey drainoff processing for a 'true' ricotta. White chocolate is made with whole milk powder. Whole milk powder, as far as I know, is made using a spray process and probably isn't exposed to lactoglobulin denaturing temps. You might want to pick up some powdered casein (bodybuilding site) and some powdered whey protein isolate and, under your doctor's supervision, test him for both. Again, like milk powder I believe they're a spray dried process. That might allow you to narrow it down to the whey.

The steel is rusted. There you have it. Same color I'm trying to remove emissivity from the equation. So, if I'm hearing you correctly, the surface temp IS responsible for emitted radiation. The higher the surface temp, the more energy is radiated. Since surface temp is directly related to conductivity, a material's ability to conduct heat is directly proportional to it's ability to radiate heat. So, although my steel slab ceiling will lose heat faster, for a brief time, it will radiate heat more intensely than my brick ceiling. I'm looking for a sprint, not a marathon. A quick payload release, not a slow one. I'm looking for 4 minutes of intense radiative heat from my ceiling. As long as the steel is thick enough (1/2" range) it should give me better browning during those 4 minutes than the fire brick will. In addition, the oven will be on during those 4 minutes. When I've tested the bottom burner in a single stone formation it gave me almost no browning on top of the pie, even with the hearth on the top shelf, so I don't expect it to feed the steel slab much during those 4 minutes, but I do expect it to help a little. Once the pie is out, the steel will need to recover before the next pie goes in, but, with it's conductivity, that wait shouldn't be very long. The problem I currently have with a two ceramic stone setup is that, not only does the bottom stone act as an insulator, delaying the top from reaching target temp (550 f), but the conductive heat I get from the hearth will burn the pie long before the radiative heat from the ceiling gives me the color I'm looking for. Reducing the vertical space between the two stones certainly helps, but I still have to have enough space to be able to launch the pie comfortably. That 'comfortable' distance (about 4 inches) from the ceiling to the hearth is giving me almost no color. Having a steel slab ceiling might even the tables. The steel slab will, for a short amount of time, radiate heat more intensely than the brick will, it will recover between pies relatively quickly, and it's superior conductivity will most likely allow it to preheat far more quickly than the hearth, regardless of the hearth's insulating properties.

Are more conductive materials, by nature, better radiators? I'm in the process of looking at ceiling materials for converting a home oven for pizza baking, that, when preheated sufficiently, will give me broiler-ish radiative transfer in a broiler free gas oven environment (where the broiler is in a separate compartment and the pizza is baked in the main oven chamber). For instance, for the sake of argument, if I take 1.25" thick firebrick and the identical heat capacity quantity of steel slab and heat the two to the same temp, will food the same distance beneath them brown in the same amount of time? Or will steel's superior conductivity cause it to radiate energy faster? Also, since color effects radiative transfer, let's assume the firebrick and steel are the same color.

Paul, when I say 'natural' I'm referring to 'natural fragrances.' The base detergent, is, as far as I know, pretty much the same for the natural stuff as it is for the major brands. It's just that the natural stuff tends to be a bit watered down. The natural fragrances are essential oils, and, because of their expense, usually appear in meager amounts. In other words, even though the dishwashing liquid may smell like real oranges, there's not enough scent to leave any residue on a rinsed dish.

The product is called "Dawn Pure Essentials." It's clear, though not totally unscented. I think it's more like lightly scented with citrus. It's good stuff, though, and has the advantage of being available in normal stores. Thanks, but I've smelled "Dawn Pure Essentials." It's better than most, but it's still way too chemical smelling for my schnoz. The really irritating thing is that the package and name both look like it's natural and/or fragrance free, and, unfortunately, it's neither. There are at least three other brands that are packaged in this same deceptive manner, and, collectively, they salt my unfulfilled fragrance free quest wound every time I happen by (which is often because I'm always looking). Here we are, four years after I began this thread, and I can't walk into a supermarket and buy a fragrance free version of a major brand of dishwashing soap, while, at the same time, the number of fragrance free laundry soaps has continued to grow. It's difficult to find a liquid laundry soap that doesn't come in a fragrance free version. Venting aside, Paul, if you're anywhere near a Pathmark, about a year back they started carrying a fragrance free brand called Greenway. Like all the natural dishwashing liquids, the sudsing power is abysmal, but it's a tiny bit better than Trader Joes and about half the price of Whole Paycheck. This is the second fragrance free brand that Pathmark has had in the last four years. The first one, I forget the name, was actually half decent, but I'm guessing demand wasn't strong enough and it was discontinued. I get the sinking feeling that Greenway doesn't have much of a following either, but hopefully they'll stand the test of time. If they don't, I'm really up the creek, because TJs has gone from bad to worse in recent years. I'm 99.9% certain they're playing the salt game. Salt will give you viscosity at minimal cost, but it won't create suds or really clean your dishes. It's classic cheap dishwashing liquid chicanery.

← IMHO, this company's malt powder is better than Horlick's, Carnation, you name it. I tasted all of them in my quest to find the perfect malt powder for soda fountain "malteds." The Horlick company was founded in Wisconsin, with branches eventually opening in New York and England in the late 1800s. I have read that the malt powder made by CTL Foods, which is located in Wisconsin, is based on the original formula. I know this post was from 2 years ago, but, I've gotten fed up with Carnation and am looking for something better. In what way is CTL malt better? For the amount I plan on purchasing (2.5 lb.), CTL is $2/lb more than the retail Carnation I'm buying. If I did a little searching, I could probably find Carnation at half the price. Is CTL really worth twice as much?

You are forgetting about independent monitoring agencies which DO concentrate on the humane living conditions and treatment of the animals at the facilities they inspect. I'm familiar with the Humane Farm Animal Care (HFAC) organization [http://www.certifiedhumane.org/] but I know there are several others across the country including a program by American Humane http://americanhumane.org HFAC is "A national non-profit 501©3 organization created to improve the lives of farm animals by setting rigorous standards, conducting annual inspections, and certifying their humane treatment." They inspect farms, transporters and slaughter facilities and award their "Certified Humanely Raised and Handled" certification, labeling and branding assistance to places that meet their criteria. http://www.certifiedhumane.org/uploads/pdf/Fee%20Schedule.08.2A.pdf You call that independent?

Once again, a rather broad all-incompassing statement that's patently false. I don't need to "know someone." I don't need to "own a farm." I don't need to spend "vast sums of money." I just need to know how to shop properly. Okay, so you're shopping 'properly.' Which brands are you buying? How much do they cost per pound? Have you been to the farms where these chickens are raised, and, if not, have you either seen photos of the entire farm and/or have the conditions been verified by trusted third parties? The labels 'Organic' and 'Free Range,' thanks to meaningless USDA regulations, have no bearing on the humane treatment of the birds. Terms like 'Cage-Free' or 'Free-Roaming' are just euphemisms for 'high-density floor confinement.' 'Pastured Poultry' or 'Pasture Raised' can signify humane treatment, but even with that, there's no guarantee. High-density confinement, be it high-density cage or high-density floor, is inhumane, pure and simple. And, for the urban dweller, that's what the vast majority are eating, regardless of the little labeling games we play to try and make ourselves feel better. If you have a third party verified non confined brand of chicken that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, please, tell me. As far as I know, such a thing does not exist. Do you really view high-density floor confinement as a 'middle path?'

How does living in the city have anything to do with the quality of the chicken we're eating? Quality has nothing to do with it. A factory farm chicken raised in a small box could easily end up being tastier than a family farm raised chicken allowed to run around and develop more muscular tissue. In my comment above, 'Poorly raised' = 'inhumanely' raised. The only way to know for certain that the chicken you're eating has been treated humanely is to own a farm or know someone who does. In an urban environment, that's possible if you spend vast sums of money, but, for the vast majority, it's unrealistic. If a person is eating chicken in restaurants or shopping for it in Gristedes, Fairway or even Whole Foods, they're eating inhumanely treated chicken. If someone needs to kill a chicken in order to justify eating chicken that other people are killing for them, the chicken they kill should be identical to the inhumanely raised chicken they're eating.

If you live in the city, unless you're paying obscene amounts of money for poultry (and even that's no guarantee), you're eating poorly raised chicken. If you're willing to eat poorly raised chickens, you should be able to kill poorly raised chickens. The ethical exercise, in order to be viable, should mimic reality- not be some fantasy world construct.

First law of thermodynamics Seriously, though... I would say, yes, assuming we're referring to an electric element, the thermostat will cut off at a set (lower) temperature, regardless of whether the pan is on it or not.

I see two potential reasons why your results are inconsistent with the other people making this: Compactible Drink Mix How are you measuring the cup of dry drink mix? Spooning? Scooping? I wouldn't necessarily press the mix into the measuring cup, but I'd tap the cup so the mix settles a bit, which will allow you to fit more. Chunky vs. Smooth PB Peanut butter is a dry solid in oil emulsion. When water is added, if the solids are small (smooth PB), they will absorb water and the mixture will thicken. With larger pieces (chunky), though, less water is absorbed. I'd go with smooth. Oh, and the recipe states "1 pkg. white chocolate sugar free pudding." Make sure you're using the same package size.

Gee, golly, they're just so gosh darn environmental, I want give em all a great big hug. iFlour

Mommy Dearest, you purchased canned San Marzano puree at Whole Foods? Any idea of the brand/size/cost? How was the quality? I've been making lots of pizza lately, and, each time I make the sauce, I pick up my bottle of Passata SMs, look it over a bit, then go with something else. I'm using less sauce on my pies these days, so, in theory, I could work with 24 oz., but... as I gaze at the bottle, the tomatoes look so dark. For the last couple years, I've been pretty gung ho about using bright red canned tomatoes for applications that require a fresh tomato flavor such as pizza, but, in the last month or so, I've shifted my obsession from bright red to bright reddish pink. All of my favorite canned tomatoes (cento puree, peeled SMs) have a pinkness to them. Wegmans puree was a factor in this realization. My prior excitement was a bit premature. I loved the fact that they list 'tomato pulp' as the single ingredient (as oppose to other brands that are reconstituted paste) and I also was head over heels about the thickness. The more I work with it, though, the more I find that it lacks that uncooked 'pink' quality that Cento has. Cento is far more watery, but I can live with that. I'm not totally trashing Wegmans puree. I would probably choose them over just about non Cento puree, but they don't top Cento's flavor.

Is it another topic? I think the two are, unfortunately, somewhat intertwined. Because of the limited shelf life of ww flour, unless you grind the berries yourself or know someone that does, it's almost impossible to find a batch that doesn't have rancid oils. Since humans are hard wired to avoid rotten food because it's bad for us, the only way to make ww flour palatable is by hiding the bitter rancidity with sugar- a LOT of sugar. Sure, you can make a whole wheat bread without any sweetener, but I wouldn't feed it to my dog. And, speaking of dogs... dogs, unlike humans, ARE able to process rotten food without ill effects. You know the nauseating feeling you get when you walk down the dog food aisle? That's nature's way of keeping you (and your ancestors) alive. You should listen to that same voice in your head when presented with 'supposedly' healthy whole wheat options. Healthy food shouldn't require sugar to make it less repulsive. If you're movement towards whole grains is for health reasons, I would definitely rethink the ww angle. Unless, as I said, you're planning on grinding the berries yourself. Freshly ground wheat- now THAT's healthy. Otherwise, reach for the oatmeal. Or, better yet, reach for the broccoli.

It's kind of hard to compare, because the BK burger has been so heavily doctored (glutamates, salt, sugar), but the beef, although somewhat mediocre has about 1000 times better quality control than locally ground supermarket beef (in my area). My local BK lounge (Morristown) has higher prices than other franchises and heinously bad hygiene. The burgers are cold and the buns taste like perfume- perfume from preparers that obviously don't wash their hands. Anyway, I won't step foot in the place. But a good BK in another town- prior to finding Wegmans, that was where I was getting my burger fix. I'm not ashamed to say it.

Morris Plains SR is my closest SR as well (I'm in Morristown). I won't step foot in the place, it's so dirty. Chatham has horrible parking, higher prices and an overall cramped feeling so I tend to avoid that as well. When Wharton first opened, I was head over heels in love, but, over the years, the luster has faded a bit. The prices are a bit lower than Parsippany, but with gas what it is, I really have to buy a lot of food in order to make it worthwhile. Have you been to Patels in Parsippany? I've been meaning to go, but haven't been able to fit it in my schedule. I've been to Patels in Edison and wasn't all that impressed, but I tend to get excited about new grocers and their (usual) inclination to go that extra mile. Re; the SMs... I bought the last bottle of crushed on the shelf. I noticed they contain salt. It's not the end of the world, but if I forget and add salt like it's regular puree, it's going to be a huge problem. I can't really say I'm hugely excited about it. The 24 oz. size is screwing with my heavily fine tuned 28 oz. recipe and the non sale price means that I'll probably rarely buy these again, if ever. I'll get to it, but, at the moment, it's not burning a hole in my pantry. Are the Costco SMs DOP? I remember reading somewhere that Costco sold the uncertified San Marzano 'Brand' tomatoes Btw, they're no SMs, but I'm really impressed with the Wegmans puree. Really impressed. Bright, thick, flavorful- not sweet, of course, but sugar compensates nicely. I would venture to say that they're a skitch better than Cento's regular puree. At 49 cents a can (sale price), that's pretty darn amazing.

The quality of supermarket ground beef here in northern NJ has plummeted in recent years. Sure, for the most part, it's ground locally, but... from what? Ground beef has a tendency to be the butchers garbage disposal. It usually has some cryovaced round, but it almost always contains old roasts that have been sitting in the case and that never sold. The only thing that varies from store to store is how long they leave the roasts in the case before they grind them. Over the course of about a year, in a quest to get a half decent hamburger, I tried ground beef from every single supermarket in a 20 mile radius- on multiple occasions. 3 different Shop Rites, 2 Pathmarks, 2 Kings, A&P, Acme and Foodtown. Kings was the worst. Considering their upscale clientele, I found it surprising, but on a few occasions, I couldn't even eat the meat it was so bad. A&P was second to last. I've actually stopped buying A&P meat in it's entirety. Pathmark, Acme and Foodtown were all barely tolerable. And, just a skitch above that, was Parsippany SR. It's not like Parsippany SR was good, just not quite as foul as the other places. It's a bit of a distance, but when I was down in Bridgewater Wegmans buying rennet for mozzarella, I decided to give their family pack ground beef a shot and was amazed by the quality. It was the best hamburger I've had in years. I've since returned to buy another two 6 lb packages and those seem to be winners as well. With ground beef, it's always a crap shoot depending on who's working that day, but, so far, Wegmans has done right by me. I don't know how far 'north' you are in 'north Jersey,' but if you can take a trip down 287/202, I don't think you'll be disappointed. I'm sure Whole Paycheck would give you something pretty good, if you're near one of those, although I have, firsthand, witnessed the assistant butcher asking the butcher what to do with the roasts he was pulling from the case. Without a pause, the butcher replied "grind them." The roasts were pretty fresh, though, and from the times I've had ground beef from WF, it's been good. But pricey. There are some supermarkets that will grind meat for you (SR, mostly), but then you have to wait until bottom round goes on sale, and you have to get there at the time of the day when they still have some beef fat on hand. I've also run into SR butchers who will grind the round, but not the fat ("The fat clogs up our machines"). Jerks I haven't completely given up on this route, but, I have to admit, I'd much rather take a 25 minute drive to Wegmans than go through the hassle of having a butcher grind meat for me. I really hope that the economy is at fault for the crummy ground beef (less roasts being sold? tighter butcher budgets? Corner cutting on cryovac meat processing?). This is just way too much trouble to get a half decent cheeseburger.

Finding Science in Ice Cream In other words, both glucose and fructose are counterproductive in regards to achieving a firmer sorbet.

Parsippany SR?! That's where I shop! Well there and Wharton. Small world, huh? That's a great find, thanks. The price tag, even on sale, leaves a little to be desired, though. It's a 24 oz. rather than the traditional 28 oz. container, so $3/24 oz. translates into $3.50/28. I just got finished buying 8 cans of Wegmans puree for 49 cents a can, so I'm not really in the right mindset to spend 7 times that for a SM equivalent, but... it doesn't look like I have any other choice if I want SM puree. I do hope that it's not too amazingly wonderful as it'll be a cold day in hell when I spend $5/28 oz. on puree (the non sale price). Btw, I was just at Corrados (Clifton) and they had peeled SMs for $2.50 a can or a 90 oz. can for $5 (in the warehouse). Should I ever perfect my pureeing technique, that should be quite competitive.