jordyn

I frequently end up at restaurants late. Part of this is I'm bad at planning, so often end up with the 5:30/10:00 dilemma; part of this is that I often have things to do earlier in the evening; and part is that I'm young and like to pretend I can still stay out late. So, I appreciate the option of a 10 or 10:30 or 11:00 seating. I'll almost always opt for one of these over an early (anytime before about 7:00) seating. However, this can often be a frustrating experience: specials (and other dishes) are often not available; like Cabrales, I find myself reluctant to order multicourse tasting menus; and at some places I do feel like I'm being rushed out the door. If restaurants are going to bother to offer these late seatings, they ought to be able to adequately accomodate them.

Interesting. A friend of mine who usually has good judgement in these matters recommended Bofinger highly. So I too would be curious to hear what others think.

Okay. My itinerary is taking shape. It turns out I'll be moving a bit more than I had originally hoped, but it will be fun. I will see a lot of France. So far, here's what I know. June 15: Paris. Lunch probably at Brasserie Bofinger; dinner at L'Astrance. June 16: Fly to Geneva. Get car. Drive around, end up in Annecy. Dinner at L'Auberge de l'Eridan. Stay nearby. June 17: I was hoping to end up at Auberge et Clos des Cimes, but they seem to be full all week, at least according to the online booking engine. I will try to call them tomorrow and see if I have better luck that way. Any suggested alternatives? June 18: Maybe end up in Avignon. Or somewhere. I'm thinking lunch at Pic might be a good idea on the way South. June 19: No idea. June 20: End up in Laguiole. Eat/stay at Michel Bras. June 21: End up in Puymirol. Eat/stay at Les Loges de l'Aubergade. Maybe lunch at Le Vieux Pont. June 22: I have no idea. John Whiting's post today has me looking to some of his recommended places in Dordogne. June 23: Drive to Bordeaux. Drop off car. Fly to Paris and eventually home. So, clearly I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to Provence. If people have recommendations for things to do along the way, or what to do in Provence, or bad horrible ideas somewhere along the way, I'd appreciate feedback. And this is where I'd love to hear about any quaint, charming, or otherwise magical or good-to-visit but not particularly famous places along the way. Or non-food experiences that I ought not to miss.

Wow, I go away for the weekend, and come back to a controversy that I've inadvertantly created. Of course, never one to back away from a controversy, I'll confess that I find Freida's message to be a bit condescending and paternalistic. It goes withotu saying that there is more to France than food, and more to French food than three star restaurants. I asked for some thoughts on certain Michelin starred restaruants in particular for several reasons: 1) There aren't very many of them. Whereas there are probably hundreds or thousands of places serving authentic regional cuisine, there are twenty-whatever Michelin three star restaurants. So, while I feel confident that I can get some great suggestions for places to eat practically anywhere I go in France, I feel less confident in asking "hey, here is a list of random towns that my friends said were cute and had good cheese shops in them; please tell me where to find the closest three star restaurant". It may turn out that I've chosen towns not particularly close to any restaurant of the sort I'm after. Conversely, Cabrales has already pointed out things other than eating at Bras that I can do in 2) Reservations. They can be hard to get at some of these places; I would guess less so at local places. So, I need to plan farther in advance for the Michelin starred places. 3) This is a food board. There are many places where I can learn about the enormous variety of non-food related things in France, and I do appreciate it when I do pick up tips about how to get around France, or interesting activities near where I am going, but there are many places where I can pick up a lot of this information, but there is only one egullet. So, I ask my food/restaurant questions here, and ask my questions about pretty churches at prettychurchdiscussion.com. Other than that, I'd like to thank everyone for their helpful feedback. Cabrales in particular seems to have a frenetic style of travel that matches the sort of trips I often take, at least in terms of pacing, so it's good to see what she's capable of. (On this trip, I'm aiming for a slightly slower pace, but it's a good reference model at least.) Finally, to Steve's P. suggestion of staying in Paris. While I admire the utility of the suggestion, Paris is such an easy trip from New York that I can't see spending one of my rare week-long vacations there. I can return to Paris for countless three or four day weekends, and slowly sample its charms. Such an approach isn't nearly as practical in the provinces, I don't think.

Thanks, all, for the input so far. I'm certainly in agreement that I don't want to limit this trip to three star restaurants--both in terms of exploring the food and exploring the country, such an approach would be awfully limiting. My goal is to pick out a few excellent places to eat, and build the rest of a trip around them. I've taken a similar approach on several recent trips, and found the results to be quite satisfactory. As a general rule, I'm more worried about quality of food than luxury of appointments (either in the restaurant or the hotel), so please don't allow the relatively high end places I named to make you think I won't be satisfied staying at a charming country inn. One of my favorite places on a recent trip to South Africa was Roggeland, which was also (by far) the least luxurious accomodation of the vacation. It looks like there's a strong consensus here for the inclusion of Veyrat. As a result, I think I'll follow Bux's advice of taking the TGV to Bordeaux or Tolouse, and then driving east, eventually flying back from Lyon or possibly Geneva. As I expected, availability of reservations is going to play a role in dictating some of the itinerary. Rooms at Bras are gone for the entire week I'll be in France; I haven't called to see if there's still a chance at reservations for food yet, but I wonder about the practicality (of dinner at least) if there are no rooms available, given that everyone seems to indicate that it is a fairly remote location. Michelin lists several other places to stay, and I'm assuming that Laguiole is not all that big.

According to this thread, L'Astrance opens up at 9:30 A.M. France time. This matches my experience. I started calling just after 3:25 A.M. New York time; my first several attempts resulted in the phone ringing with no answer. At about 3:32 (9:32 in France), a nice man answered and took my reservation for dinner. Edited to fix grammar.

Robert, thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, according to Cabrales in another thread (and verified by a cursory look at viamichelin.com), the other three stars in Paris are all closed for Saturday lunch, so L'Ambroisie is the only option. Gagnaire is open the following night, but I am inclined to think that I'd rather be in the provinces on Sunday than waiting to have dinner at Gagnaire, unless it is so much better than L'Ambroisie and the consensus is that a three star in Paris is essential to my culinary education. Regarding your variant itinerary, I think we're getting around by car (new question: is that dumb? lots of people on the board seem to suggest they mostly get around by train) and it seems like a greater distance than the others. Do you think it is manageable in six days?

I am going to France from June 15 through the 22nd; one week to try and take in some of the food and feeling of Paris and the provinces. Clearly, I am only going to be able to attempt only the slightest glance at the country and the cuisine as a whole, but I'm hoping to put together an itinerary that will serve as a decent primer. Let's face it: I am dumb when it comes to French food. I've been eating around America for a while now, and I recognize that there is a heavy French influence in a lot of the food I eat. The meals I have enjoyed the most over the past few weeks have both been in places that are probably categorized as French restaurants: Masa's in San Francisco and Village in New York. But although I often enjoy food that would be characterized as French, I don't feel like I have much of a grip on what the French food experience is all about. So, I'm hoping to learn. Here's what I have figured out so far. I arrive into Paris on the morning of the 15th. At 3:20 this morning, I sleepily punched redial several times and managed to grab a reservation at L'Astrance for the evening of the 15th. I'm hoping to only spend the one day in Paris, largely because it's so easy to get to, and I assume I can go back whenever I want. For several years now, it's been tough for me to get more than a handful of days off from work at a time, so adventures out of cities with airports are often logistically difficult. Now that I've got a week, I want to take advantage of that freedom. So, here are my questions: 1) Do I need to eat at a three star restaurant in Paris? The only real option is lunch at L'Ambroisie if I'm going to get out of Paris by the 16th. If I stay an extra day, I could try Pierre Gagnaire. If I *do* need to eat at a three star restaurant in Paris, is it worth waiting a day for (what seems to be) the more favorably received Pierre Gagnaire? 2) Based mostly on what I've read on this board, I'm currently contemplating one of two "clusters" of restaurants in the provinces: 2a) The Michel route: Michel Bras, Les Pres d'Eugenie, and Les Loges de l'Aubergade. 2b) L'Auberge de l'Eridan, Troisgros, and Pic. Possibly Auberge et Clos des Cimes as well, but that seems like a lot in not very much time. Do either of these look particularly well-chosen for an "intro to fine French food"? Am I missing some other region where I could create a better cluster of restaurants? Will I be able to get reservations at these places with only about 30 days notice? Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

I suppose since I'm skinny this must make me an authority on weight loss. Here's what I do: sit in front of my computer all day and eat whatever I want when I'm hungry, especially concentrating on eating out at least once per day. I'm sure that if everyone follows my advice they will immediately reduce their BMI to under 20. Oh, and did I mention you need to have a fast metabolism for my plan to work? Definitely look into that. Obviously, people that have ever had a need to lose or maintain their weight are going to have better advice than people who are magically and naturally thin. Here's my one piece of advice, though: don't feel the need to clean your plate. When you feel like you're done eating, stop. So many people I eat with seem to feel compelled to finish every last bit on their plate regardless of whether or not they're still hungry. Listen to your body.

There's Esca, which is very near where they will be parking (43rd and 9th). I found the crudo there to be exceptionally good. The rest of the menu is quite nice too, with an emphasis on seafood. I had lunch at Blue Fin last week, which is at Broadway/47th. It's very sceney, which may not be great for the parents, but the fish was quite good. Esca is the superior restaurant for food, but can be a tough reservation in my experience. I've not been to Marseille (9th/44th), but have heard good things. Same goes for hell's Kitchen, up 9th Avenue near 47th.

March is very likely my favorite restaurant in the world. Part of this undoubtedly has to do with the fact that there are many excellent places at which I have not yet eaten; and part is because it's a remarkable dining experience. Tommy has already pointed out the oddity of the menu, although I think that that there are more likely twenty dishes on the menu than twelve. I have generally avoided trying to figure out the right thing to do with the menu by simply asking for one of their multi course "dual tasting menus" (each of you will get a different dish per course) with the wine pairing. I've done this with the six and seven course dual tasting menus, and have found this to be the right amount of excellent food, with careful attention paid to the match between the wine and the food.

I think Fleur de Lys is still closed due to a fire last year. While I enjoyed my meal at Farollon, I felt like other places I've eaten in the area (notably Masa's, Charles Nob Hill, and Chez Pannise) were a notch higher in terms of food. I think I'd rather do Aqua this time if I go the fishy route. People on Citysearch (yeah, I know, not the greatest source of gastronomic insight, but what do you do when the California board here is so sparsely populated here) seemed to feel like the Fifth Floor had less than stellar service since Gras started, although opinions of the food everywhere seem to be reasonably high. Also, the Chronicle review seemed to indicate that everything was not quite right yet at Fifth Floor; once again while acknowledging a lot of potential with Gras in the kitchen. I'd love to hear what you think of the place if you end up going, though. It looks interesting, no doubt.

Patrice, thanks for the advice. I think that last time I ate at Masa's was at the start of the Ron Siegel era, although he had probably not had much time to settle into the kitchen yet. I was thinking about Fifth Floor, but people seem to have some pretty uneven experiences there, particularly on the service side, based on what I've read elsewhere.

I'm going to be in San Francisco 5/10-5/12, and am seeking some recommendations of where to eat. For dinner Friday and Saturday nights, I'm having a tough time choosing two of Masa's, Aqua, La Folie and possibly Elisabeth Daniel (not sure if I can get reservations there yet). I ate at Masa's right after they re-opened in February 2001, and liked it a lot. Am I going to do better at one of these other places? Is there somewhere that I should be thinking about that I'm not? For lunch on Saturday, we were thinking of doing something Chinese or Vietnamese. I've always liked House of Nanking, but either their standards have been slipping, or it's just not fun without a big enough party to tell Peter to just bring out whatever is good. I've not been to Slanted Door or Ana Mandara, and don't expect anyone to resolve the differences between the two for me, but any insight into good places that I don't know because I live far away would be helpful. Finally, we were thinking about brunch on Sunday. Only it's mother's day. Originally, we were going to try the Crown Room, just for fun, but I think that would be a disaster even if we could get in. Any thoughts on places that are good but not very Mommy-friendly? I'm vaguely considering heading out to Napa so I can try to secure my elusive French Laundry reservation by visiting them in person--if so, is there somewhere that I should think about for brunch out that way?

When I had brunch at Xaviar's in 1997, there was also an endless parade of fabulous dishes, and we were just there. Sadly, we didn't realize there would be an endless parade of fabulous dishes until we were half gorged on fairly fabulous brunch buffet food. I've not had a better brunch anywhere ever.

Wilfrid, I find your suggestion of Cafe Boulud surprising. Although I agree that the crowd there is usually shabbily dressed, it's never struck me as being particularly dressy. The website indicates "casual chic attire suggested; no tie required", and I actually remember reading an article at one point which indicated that Daniel Boulud actually wanted people to dress down when dining at Cafe Boulud. I vaguely recall some mention of management expressing their delight when the ocassional patron would wear jeans into the place. To address the topic more broadly, while I can appreciate the dismay that some may feel when they notice other diners in shorts, I also feel like a requirement of a suit or a jacket is rather old fashioned and fussy. If I wear an elegant shirt and trousers into a restaurant, I can't imagine that this is going to detract significantly from anyone else's dining experience. I personally find it much more practical and comfortable to dine without a jacket or tie, so while I appreciate the occasional opportunity to get dressed up and really "go out", I'm also a bit resentful of this rather artificial standard of dressed "well enough".

I pulled out a map to see if I was misremembering the distance between the country club and the town, and although it's closer than I thought, it still appears to be a bit more than a mile. This is probably a fine distance for some people to walk, and not so fine for others. It's almost certainly possible to organize taxis between the train station and the restaurant, but on a Sunday it might be wise to plan this in advance.

Zagat lists a bunch of place where it claims jackets are required. Sadly, it appears to be rather inaccurate. In addition to your list, I'd add the following places where formality reins. I'm pretty sure all of the following still require jackets for men: Alain Ducasse Aureole Cafe Des Artistes Cello Four Seasons La Caravelle La Cote Basque La Grenouille Lespinasse One If By Land, Two If By Sea I'm sure there are others.

I have no idea what sort of deal you could cut with a taxi driver, but based on the distance travelled, you would expect to pay around $100 in each direction between Washington and Washington. If your goal was to get the best possible deal, I'd imagine the smartest way would be to rent a car in Washington, stay in Front Royal, VA, and take taxis between Front Royal and Washington. Not only would rental car+shorter taxi rides be cheaper than the long taxi rides, but hotel rooms in Front Royal have got to be cheaper than those in the District.

Xaviar's is in the Highalnd Country Club, which is indeed on 9D. Unfortunately, this is a bit out of the Garrison town center, so it's not practical to use public transportation all the way. Apparently inflation hasn't hit Putnam County very hard, as the brunch is currently priced at $40.

The Xavier's in Garrison is the right choice for Brunch; the Piermont incarnation has brunch-time service, but it's really just lunch. Especially now that it's warm, the Garrison space is wonderful: beautiful to start with, spring and summer light streaming in through the open doors make the place a real treat just to sit in. And of course, the food is bountiful and excellent!

Unfortunately, because Ouest is a unique oasis on the UWS, it can be difficult to get reservations on short notice. Other nearby options: Compass (formerly Marika) is a bit uneven, but I've had some satisfying meals there. It's on 70th between Broadway and Amsterdam. Josie's is very close to the Beacon on 74th and Amsterdam, and has a reliable, dairy-free menu. This is not fine dining by any stretch of the imagination, but it's reasonably good value. A few decent Asian places nearby: Rain, pan-Asian, and Haru, reasonably good sushi. Monsoon, mostly Vietnamese, is not as good as the previously mentioned places, but it's closer to the Beacon and cheaper.

jordyn -- If you don't tend to feel full from a restaurant meal, what do you do (e.g., eat less interesting things at home afterwards)? I make a distinction between "full", meaning "can't fit any more", and "satisfied". I often feel satisfied after a meal, but full is as often an uncomfortable feeling as a good one. If the food is both particularly good and plentiful, I do occasionally eat until I can eat no more, but this is an exceptional case rather than a typical one.

I eat very slowly most of the time. So slowly that it's rare for me to actually get full--I generally give up on eating food because it's become cold or I've had enough of that particular dish or I'm sick of everyone else at the table staring at me wondering when I might actually get done. Much of my slowness has to do with the inability to multitask. I can't or don't talk while eating, and I like to talk. Others have noticed that I have the bad habit of setting down my utensils while chewing, which prevents me from preparing the next bite as others here have indicated that they do. Setting down the utensils also tempers any sense of urgency to consume the next bite. Some people who I dine with that generally eat quickly have made an effort to slow down to something closer to my pace. They generally report that this is a highly satisfactory experience--they enjoy the food more, don't have digestive problems, and liked the relaxed air this approach gives the meal. I can eat quite quickly when pressed to do so.

I have no idea whether or not Congress passed a law allowing states to do this, but even if they did, there's no guarantee that the state laws pass Constitutional muster. Congress cannot necessarily give away powers that are guaranteed to the Federal government, short of an amendment to the Constitution. As an analogy, the Line Item Veto was struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional because Congress was trying to transfer a legislative power to the executive branch; the fact that the legislative branch initiated this transfer of a Constitutional power still did not make it acceptable.