TheFoodTutor

No harm done, and no ill feelings. I'm sure any misunderstandings will be cleared up shortly.

Correct. I meant to say that, generally, this is something we gripe about amongst ourselves only. In this case, winegeek vented frustrations after a long day, and I was apologizing for that fact, though I'm not actually acquainted with winegeek or anything. And I will do so again. I am sorry, very sorry, and I will personally not vent my frustrations about my own job, plus I will take care to alleviate any suffering caused by any servers who vent their frustrations here on eGullet. Anyone who feels this is not good enough may send me a request by PM for a personal, hand-written apology, in triplicate, notarized and signed in blood. May I only further apologize for any delays that travelling by land courier may cause. Yours, TheFoodTutor

Well, in the upscale restaurants where I have worked, of course we try to have as many sharp knives on hand as possible. And in restaurant world, there's usually a sort of "Christmas" time, right after inventory has been taken, when new items can be procured, broken out and used, and for a short time, there is enough for everyone. But after what seems like a terribly short time, certain items sprout legs and walk out, or they get broken, lost or accidentally thrown away. Steak knives and pepper mills tend to be items always in short supply. I can't speculate as to why, though I'm sure there are theories around. I didn't mean to be tell anyone how to act in company, but rather I'm more or less quoting from Judith Martin's columns on how servers should act, as she has addressed this issue several times. I didn't think you'd indicated that you're a server, so my comments were directed toward my behavior and winegeek's. And whether you're a server or not, you don't have to agree with Judith Martin or myself. Etiquette is hardly law, after all. I'm am sincerely sorry if you felt that I was telling you how to act.

It is not the place of the server to do such a thing, particularly if the knife is now covered in caesar dressing or butter for the bread, for several reasons. For one, it is usually obtrusive to suggest such a thing when trying to clear plates, which is an activity best done as quietly as possible, so as not to disturb conversation at the table. Also, most people don't like salad dressing on their steaks, so keeping the knife isn't an attractive option. And, of course, pointing out an etiquette gaff, which the server would be doing in this case, because he or she would be pointing out that the honored Ambassador did, indeed, use the wrong knife, is in itself the worst etiquette gaff of all. Even if that's the absolute last steak knife in the room, and taking it away means the server must hightail it back to the dish room, wash it by hand and polish it, bringing it, still steaming, on a marking tray to the waiting Ambassador, who at this point has a sad puppy-dog look on his face, because he's wondering how he'll cut his steak, that is what must be done. Removing a dirty knife from a salad plate and just placing it at the Ambassador's side is not ever an option. And this is why every fine dining server I've ever known has this sort of thing on their list of top pet peeves, and it's something we only gripe about to one another in private. I'm terribly sorry if hearing about this phenomenon has upset anyone. Carry on.

Someone seems to be missing the point here: The server doesn't actually care whether you use the right fork for the salad or the right knife for your entree. All things being equal, however, the server would prefer that, when he or she has hunted high and low to find a polished steak knife, brought out a marking tray and marked your place setting with said steak knife, that you not then use the steak knife before getting your steak, pile it on your salad plate with the rest of the silver and then insist it be taken away, so that said server must once again hunt high and low for a polished steak knife, bring it out on a marking tray and re-mark your place setting. And the reason why the server doesn't want you to do this is? Because this is exactly the sort of thing that will take him or her away from things of relative importance, such as pouring more wine. The server is not looking to snob you, but rather trying to do things in as efficient a manner as possible, so that he or she can be at your service for anything else you might need.

Don't you think this reaction seems a little harsh, ladyyoung? I looked back at winegeek's post, and she didn't imply that she thought these patrons were "stupid" as you assert. Being a regular patron of many types of restaurants and someone who has worked all manner of positions in a wide variety of restaurants, it does seem to be a clear trend that people do not pay attention to hardly any of the social norms around dining. In the city where I live, people routinely engage in behavior that is either mildly annoying to the server (using the wrong silver, necessitating extra trips to replace it) or disruptive to other guests (allowing small children to run through the dining room) while in a fine dining restaurant. Further, I think that your assumption that "high end establishments" that cater to "the monied set" who "could not be stupid and have the money that they do" is unwarranted. There are many places in my neighborhood that have the sort of service described by winegeek where the prices, particularly at lunchtime, are not prohibitive for virtually anyone to eat there. I can name a number of fine dining establishments that offer salads large enough to split for $7, half portions of pasta (which still turn out to be quite large) for $7 and entrees ranging as low as $10. To assume that the average, everyday worker making even a very modest income could never afford to dine in such a place would be to assume wrong. The tone of your post suggests to me that you have been snobbed at some point, so it's an issue to which you are sensitive. For that, I am sorry, but two wrongs do not make a right, and telling a server that she "seemingly doesn't deserve" the tips she earns is not any nicer than telling any other professional on these boards that they don't deserve whatever salary they make because they griped about someone who was seemingly clueless when they called a Tech Support line, for instance.

Since I don't celebrate Christmas, I really don't care about having to work the holiday if needed, but there are many times that it really doesn't translate into more money. Lately, at my current restaurant, more business has translated into less money, because we're right by an upscale mall and we're getting a crowd of shoppers who apparantly don't eat out very often. I've been waiting on the sorts of guests who haven't been into our restaurant in 10 years or so, and while they never seem to remember that we don't have sweet tea, they do remember that hot bacon dressing that we took off the menu years and years ago and we no longer serve. So tip percentage, on average, has been lower than normal. And New Year's Eve is just sheer hell to work. The last time I worked NYE, I made about $120, but it didn't really matter what I made. No amount of money would have been worth it. I can't wait for the holidays to be over. Bah humbug.

Hmm. Perverse consumerism? Perhaps if you are talking about a $5000 bottle of wine, but in the case of a $300 meal, there are many cases where one could charge that amount and only be making a, relatively, small profit. One of those cases being if one is paying for real estate in Manhattan, out of which you can serve the best fish available. Aside from the $1000 omelette and a few other things that are meant to be ridiculous by definition, the price of food in restaurants has a lot to do with realistic food costs. Foie gras really does cost quite a bit (retail $60-70/pound, wholesale about $40/pound), so if your goal is to keep your food cost under 35%, well, I'm sure you can do the math. So I really don't expect to see any "dollar sushi" nights at Masa anytime soon. But it would be nice to see a few of these SUV dealerships close up shop. There are much worse examples of conspicuous consumption than eating in restaurants.

Maybe not in the abridged edition, but here's the entry in The American Heritage Dictionary, 3rd edition: gul-li-ble adj. Easily decieved or duped. [From GULL(2).] At GULL(2) we find the following definition: n. "A person who is easily tricked or cheated; a dupe." tr.v. To decieve or cheat. BTW, in the etymology for this sense of "gull", it also says "See GULLET." ← Oh my God. I cannot believe it took less than 5 hours for someone to fall for that. Hook. Line. Sinker. Cool. I wonder if I could do it again on another section of eGullet.

Actually, I keep thinking the same thing when I see the line of "Pasta Anytime" dishes on the shelf at the grocery store. What, exactly, is hard about cooking spaghetti? Why would you have to have it partially pre-cooked, with a package of sauce, in microwavable form? I just don't really get it. I know that people want convenience foods that are quick to make, but some of this stuff is some marketing agent coming up with something, and then people are gullible enough to buy it. By the way, did you know that the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary?

Yeah, well I never said I wasn't a geek.

I think it has something to do with putting them in an actual toaster. So the toaster has coils that heat rapidly, and they are in close proximity to the bread circle, so that causes the moisture to turn to steam, which puffs the bread. Whereas, in the oven, the heating process is more gradual, and you will have lowered the temperature of your oven when you place the bread circle into it. By the time the moisture inside the bread circle has time to expand, the outer surface of the bread will already have cooked somewhat and hardened. You need a more direct heating source to do this, so it's possible that one could do this in a deep fryer, or possibly in a hot skillet as well. But it seems it won't work in an oven. What puzzles me is how he manages to get the little, flat circle to balance on the toaster platform without falling into the cracks and getting stuck down in the toaster. I've tried toasting very thin things before, and that tends to be an issue.

Grrrrrrr. I am a jack-booted grammar policewoman from way back. I've been known to carry a black sharpie and X out errant apostrophes whenever I see them on the street. And yes, the plural plural does bother bother me me. And I don't even speak Italian. On the other hand, I occasionally visit a restaurant called BBQ Corner, and their awning reads, "Chineses Restaurant." Similarly to a place called "Teh Pagoda," I think they commissioned the awning and then got ripped off and were unable to ask for their money back or have the error fixed, because they are immigrants who don't speak English well enough to make the proper fuss about it. I also feel deeply for the owners of Tongnan Fa, a restaurant supply store that is listed in the phone book as "Restaurant Surprise." Really, I should get around to making some phone calls on their behalf.

therese is right. We keep all of our nice people in her part of the city. I, however, live and work in the ghetto-fabulous part.

Your location in Syracuse would explain having a similar mindset to my own. There is absolutely nothing wrong with blue collar towns, and the people who live in them tend to be polite and friendly. Atlanta, on the other hand, has a lot of nouveau-riche going on. It's kind of hard to describe what it's like. Atlanta is generally perceived by its denizens to be a city where you come here for a few years, make lots of money and go somewhere more family-friendly to settle down. People do not care much about improving the quality of the city, keeping good relations with those around them, or pretty much anything long-term, since they don't plan on staying. What's really ironic is that most people aren't saving the money they make, which defeats the purpose of coming here for a few years and getting the heck out. The people here seem to react to a sudden increase in income by living to the full extent of their means, and sometimes living a good bit beyond their means. Bankruptcies are astronomical right now. Homes and cars are being lost everywhere. Many households structured their bills so that the minimum payments each month could be made only if both spouses work full time, so now that the economy has turned down a bit, one layoff means huge loss for the couple. Except for me, of course. I live well within my means and have no debt, even though I'm just a waitress. Realtors and mortgage lenders practically had a heart attack over me when I bought property recently, because good credit is so hard to come by in these parts lately. To complement this situation, we have way, way too many restaurants for an economy in this condition. And so we have plenty of upscale, white tablecloth establishments where people come in and ask for 5 baskets of bread before they'll order anything. Which reminds me that I was thinking of starting a topic about bread service in restaurants. At any rate, I've found it to be true in my personal life that I make more money working in upscale-casual than in fine dining, so that's why I work where I work. Hopefully, since my business is picking up, I can just chuck the whole waiting tables bit soon. So I'm not sure a place like Per Se would even go over well here. I'm just not sure there are enough people here who'd spend the $300 per person to have really good food. After all, there are quite a few very good restaurants here right now that are mostly empty many nights of the week. Glad you had a good meal here. Did you go to Shiraz? Or Persepolis? I love Persian food, and we have a few good choices for it around that area.

Well, I'm one of those people, too, but in my area of the country, we do seem to be the minority. After watching table after table come in and just order a small green salad, to split, I thought to myself, "I could do that too. I could go and eat in the nicest restaurants and leave with a tab of $8, including tax and tip, and I'd be cheating the system!" But no, it becomes obvious that you're not cheating the system. You can have a green salad for nearly nothing at home, and you can pour yourself water with lemon, and even mix a little sugar in it, so why go to someplace really nice and do that? But they do. There are actually huge numbers of people that go to an upscale place just to say they've been there, and they can make a reservation for 13 people, with a total tab that ends up to be less than $300, tip around 10%, and that tip will be split amongst a 3-person team, minus tipout to the bar and others. Think about that the next time you are deciding between a restaurant that mandates that everyone get the full, 5-course tasting, or a place that lets everyone order a la carte. And then think about what that means in terms of service in various areas of the country. How do you hire serious professionals to wait on your tables if you cannot guarantee them that they will make a decent amount of money? How do you keep good people on your team? And if people come in and order the cheapest item on the menu regularly, how large of a section do you allow your servers to take, so they can make money, without sacrificing standards of service? I feel exactly the same way. I love to eat in restaurants, but I don't feel bad at all that I can't eat at Seeger's once a month. I will eat in upscale establishments when it suits me, and other times I'll travel the ethnic areas of my city and find hidden treasures at very low prices. As Shalmanese states, it's a wonderful time to live in many areas of the U.S., because there are lots of great places to find terrific cuisine.

I really believe you're overstating your case. There are people who simply can't save $300 for a mere meal, period, because they're too busy trying to earn enough to not have to choose between food, rent, clothing, utilities, and medical bills. ← Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but aside from acknowledging that there are some people who truly are in dire poverty who couldn't possibly save up $300, the comment made by Shalmanese is also true, in that I've seen people in this exact status spend a few hundred dollars on drugs. But I really don't want to devolve into competing diatribes about how the poor spend their money. The reason I made the observation in the first place was because of a personal experience of mine: For a large part of my life, I didn't feel I could afford to spend a lot of money on high end dining, so I didn't even enter the types of restaurants where one would spend $2-300 for a couple to have dinner. I probably could have afforded one visit if I'd saved, but since it would be a rare visit and I wouldn't know how to act in such places, I avoided them altogether. However, when I became a server in a fine dining establishment, I became aware that a large segment of the population does not think the way that I do. It turns out that there are lots of people of modest means who do go to upscale restaurants, and it doesn't bother them in the slightest to ask for a blender drink that's featured on the laminated drink menu of a much more casual place. They don't even think twice about asking an accomplished chef to make them fried chicken or an extra-well-done steak with A1 sauce on the side. And they don't hesitate to forego all the expensive items on the menu and just have a $7 plate of calamari and nothing else, with lemons and a sugar caddy so that they can make lemonade with their water. The fact that I'm in the minority because I was daunted by the white tablecloths, the servers wearing ties, the sommelier and all the accoutrements of fine dining was a real shocker.

This is an excellent point, and it reminds me of what I think is so democratic about eating in restaurants. I've had the pleasure of knowing a number of people who are very wealthy, and many of the things that they can afford to enjoy are beyond the reach of the average person. I, personally, may never have the amount of money it takes to own a million dollar home, a yacht or even some of the very high end cars that exist. But, I can set aside enough money to eat a wonderful meal at the Dining Room at the Ritz-Carlton here in town, and the food will be just as good for me as it is for the millionaire to my right. Even if one lived in Manhattan, there are ways that those of meager incomes could set aside enough money to have the experience of eating at Per Se. A teenager living with her parents in Queens, working at Burger King, could set aside the money it would take to eat at Per Se. A Mexican immigrant, washing dishes for a living and sharing an apartment with relatives and friends, could set aside enough money to eat at Per Se. It's just a matter of whether they would want to or feel it was worth it. Personally, dining out is something I do really enjoy, but I don't find room in my budget to dine at such high end restaurants often. I ate at Seeger's once with my boyfriend, and while I felt it was worth the $300 we spent, because I enjoyed it very much, I won't be eating there again any time soon. I'm saving up for something even more special.

Marvelous choice for a blog. The cheesemaking process is fascinating, and I love the Pike Place Market. My significant other and I have similarly made transitions from other careers into restaurant work, and then to our own small business over a period of 4 years or so. We know how hard it can be to make such a radical change, and we applaud you. Not to mention that I really, really love cheese. Thank you for blogging.

That one got me laughing. I can just picture some things I'm interested in pitching off the balcony right now. Just on the cusp at this moment, and I had to have a big roast beef sandwich with mayo, mustard, horseradish, lettuce, tomato (winter tomato ), pickles, sprouts, red onion, dash of vinegar and oil, salt and pepper, all on a big-ass piece of crusty bread. Washed down with a berry Honest Tea - not too sweet, just right. OK, I'm ready now.

Hooters? Bleh. I do remember from the one time I had their wings that theirs are breaded, though. But if you want to try breaded wings with better scenery, you can try Woofs on Piedmont, across from where the Gold Club used to be. It's a gay sports bar that caters to men with a "bear" body type. The wings are breaded and then drenched in sauce and butter, and the breading starts to fall off a bit so it can wallow in the pools of butter and hot sauce. They're not bad, especially if you're drinking.

Corn chips in barbecue sauce. Popcorn in honey mustard (a little hard to do, but tasty). Carrots in ranch dressing. French fries in chocolate shakes. I'm sure I can think of a few others.

You are correct, Tryska, regarding fries/hog. To everyone else, this is a reference to knowing us from elsewhere in virtual space. Anyway, higher temp oil might be a good suggestion, but my fryer only goes up to 375, and that's how hot I set it for wings. I have a small-batch deep fryer, so cold or frozen wings considerably reduce the temperature of the oil, even if I close the lid immediately. I may experiment with a flour-dredged batch and see what it takes to crisp them. I have had breaded wings with Buffalo-style hot sauce, and they can be good sometimes. Very different from Anchor Bar wings, but tasty.

lambfries is from Buffalo, and therefore is a purist. When we do wings we simply fry them until the skin becomes crisp, which happens when the fat is rendered out of the skin, and then toss them in Frank's and melted butter. Dredging the wings first means that the oil will penetrate the flour, rather than render the skin, and you may get crisp flour bits but not crisp skin. And then the crisp flour bits will just get soggy when you toss them in the sauce. I really don't prefer to flour my hot wings, since the flour technique adds both carbs and fat to the finished product, but you don't get a flavor benefit in exchange, so I don't think it's worth it. But you can try batches both ways and see which you prefer.

Nice looking sandwich, Jason. I really like those pickles.