Varmint

A little after 6, right after they replenished the oven. It was very, very good. A little heavier than a Patsy's pizza, which I still may have to try, but a wonderful experience nonetheless. Looking for a great breakfast today before the rain comes (of course, this is the day we have Yankees' tickets!).

We did Katz's in all its glory. Pastrami, turkey, hot dogs, knishes, latkes, and egg creams. The owner came by and thanked us for visiting. He thought we were locals because we ordered the knish and hot dogs. Very nice guy. Even better food! We hit Economy Candy afterwards, which was a bit much for me, let alone the children. We had plenty of snacks over the course of the afternoon while taking the Staten Island Ferry and visiting the South Street Seaport. From there we went to Grimaldi's in Brooklyn. Great, great pizza. We had the white pizza (actually, two of them), a pepperoni, and a sausage. All of it top notch. To follow, we got ice cream at the Brooklyn Ice Cream Factory (is that the right name) and looked at Manhattan in all its night-time glory. Wonderful ice cream and wonderful views. I have absolutely zero food plans tomorrow, which is great, as I may be broke soon!

We've hit a couple of diner-type places close to our accomodations (E&J's Luncheonette and Viand), had good bagels from Eli's Vinegar Factory, and had a fantastic dinner at Union Square Cafe. It was absolutely perfect for the children, and they all walked away full of great food with smiles on their faces. Amazingly, the children didn't ask for a single deviation from the menu! Today we may hit Katz's and Grimaldi's. And no, there probably won't be any pictures. Sorry!

Well, our "high end" meal has been set. It will be at Union Square Cafe, and it will be an early table (5:30) on a quiet night (Monday). I'll report back. I'll also report back on the other places that we chose. Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

From a Q&A with Danny Meyer in the Washington Post last month:

No, there wasn't a personal invitation, as I've only met him a couple of times. I just recall reading how he believes in restaurants (and his restaurants in particular) should welcome children. But if those same children are running around the restaurant and making a ruckus, I don't think he'd welcome them. I wouldn't welcome them anywhere other than a picnic table!

If you're talking about my trip to NY with my children, you're being a bit judgmental and uninformed. I agree wholeheartedly that parents who work like crazy to groom their children into mini-foodies are doing that more for themselves than for the children and are quite annoying. But when I plan on taking my children to Union Square Cafe, where the owner himself has said they want children to come, I view this as a fun experience for the children. I won't force them to eat anything in particular. Hell, they can just order mashed potatoes and dessert for all I care. But I want them to dress up and enjoy themselves for the first time (and remember, my oldest is 13). When it comes to eating at the other places I mentioned, they have one thing in common: they're places that we don't have around here. If this is not fun for the children, then it's a waste of time. If my children start to bother others in the restaurant, then it's a waste of their time as well as the customers around us. But this is not about grooming children to become foodies. It's not about me. It's about the one experience that best defines any society: the meal. Enjoy the traditions of a dim sum brunch. Try a pastrami sandwich or a big fat kosher dill. Why not get a hot dog from Gray's Papaya? Or some pizza from Grimaldi's? And I'm proud to say that my two oldest kids started cotillion because their friends did it (this cotillion included manners classes), and they both dropped out, saying it was stupid, overly formal, and had nothing to do with "being nice."

Yes, I've done many a pig, but I get it after the abbatoir has done its magic -- no offal remaining. I'm not thinking the kids would love tripe or chicken feet. Not yet, anyhow. And I won't be taking any back-up food to any of the restaurants. If they don't like it, there's always another meal to come!

I'm getting ready to spend a week in NYC with my 4 children (Mrs. Varmint will be there for only half the week). Although we've dined frequently in places that one would consider "quiet", we really haven't taken the children to a place that would be considered "high end." The youngest child is 6 and the oldest is 13. Our 11 year old daughter is quite picky, the two boys are willing to try new things, and the 6 year old is somewhere in between. So, what am I doing for food? Everything. I'm going to introduce them to new cuisines. We're going to a Danny Meyer restaurant and make it a dress-up affair. We'll go to a diner and a deli and a classic pizza joint and a Chinatown place and a kids' theme restaurant. They know that few, if any of the places, will have a kids' menu. The important thing is that I've discussed with them before hand that this trip is an adventure that gives them the opportunity to explore. They won't like everything they try, and my credit card will take a hit as a result. I'm paying for an experience-based education. In the end, they won't go hungry. And they won't complain, because we have had that discussion ahead of time regarding expectations. I'm confident they'll look back at this trip and recall several of the meals they had. The one important thing with all these meals is that they will be eaten when the children are not tired. Dinners will be very early. That also lessens the likelihood of a "scene." I'll report back on how things went.

Does anyone know how Danny Meyer's restaurants deal with kids? For example, would the children have to order the full menu at Gramercy Tavern or Tabla? And I'm talking about the main restaurants, not the tavern/bread bar parts.

Thanks, Susan. I know, I know, and when we get to the end of the week, it may be they totally forget about it. But if they don't, well, we will survive. I'll drink water and eat a small salad if necessary!

Actually, I went to a Red Sox -- Yankees game a couple of years ago -- the same day I was introduced to Patsy's pizza. Oh my God! And I'm just a sports fan. Was a huge Mets fan back in 73, but not since.

The last time I went to a Yankees' game was 9 years ago when my oldest was 4. It was his first ever game. David Wells pitched a perfect game. Not a bad start for him.

We'll survive at least one crappy meal in NY. I can eat lousy, Applebee's-like food as well as the next guy, but I like your thinking!

Is Mr. B.'s open yet? It wasn't a couple of weeks ago. Palace Cafe is a lovely room with fine food. I had a great lunch there recently. August is the best restaurant in town, an opinion that is shared by many.

Well, we have tickets to 2 matinee theater performances, so I guess we need to find places to eat in the general vicinity of the theater district. My kids are clamoring to go to -- hold your breath, please -- Mars 2112. (Must . . . remember . . . that . . . they're . . . children. Must . . . remember . . . this . . . is . . . their . . . trip, not mine)

The whole family recently went to dinner to a local restaurant that is a fairly nice place. Before we even took our seats, my 6-year old daughter realized that she wasn't going to sit beside her mother, and she let us know of her dissatisfaction. When we informed her that she was not going to get her way, she started crying -- whereupon I picked her up and took her outside, she screaming and kicking all the while. After she had her tantrum for 3 minutes (and this is the first tantrum she had in the past 2 years or so), I told her she had two choices, neither of which she'd like (I had walked out without getting the keys from my wife): She could walk back into the restaurant with me quietly to get the keys so I could take her home right then, and I would give her a peanut butter sandwich at home for dinner. If she started acting up or crying when we got the keys, I would feed her nothing for dinner. She was very quiet, we retrieved the keys, she had her sandwich, and went to her room. We then went and got the rest of the family when they finished their dinner. Of course, I missed out on dinner and we were fortunate to be eating dinner close to our house, but the point was made -- not only to the 6 year old, but all the children. We don't give multiple warnings. We give one warning and if ignored, we act swiftly. I can count on one hand the number of incidents we have had with our 4 children over the years, and I'm very proud of that.

Yeah, Allen & Son is really the only "real" barbecue joint in the Triangle. That's because they actually cook their Q over wood. Other places use commercial smokers (or, egad, gas/electric cookers without smoke), which can be good and still be referred to as "barbecue", but it's just not the same. Enjoy!

I was thinking about Landmarc, particularly if we're in that part of town. I'm definitely considering the Flay places. And I'll look at China Grill. I'm totally open to all suggestions and will try not to dismiss any out of hand. The one thing about this vacation is that for the most part, what we do won't be focused on food. My first priority is to maximize the cultural aspects of the city. Thus, there will be a couple of shows. There will be a Yankees' game. We'll go to MOMA and the Guggenheim and the Natural History museum. We'll take the Staten Island ferry (who doesn't love free stuff?). However, the kids do want to go to Grimaldi's. They want a Chinatown experience (including Chinatown Ice Cream). They want some bagels. And they NEED to go to a NY deli. Other than that, they don't really care. The older three went to Becco with their grandparents several months ago and have been raving about it ever since. We could go back, but I'm looking for alternatives. And y'all have been fantastic with your suggestions. Thanks!

For dim sum, I'd like to go to a place where they have the carts, where it would be more of a lunch-time event, and where the waitstaff MIGHT be able to tell us what they have. Although the mystery of it all could make it more exciting, of course.

Those type of "snack" places are always great. Thanks!

Have they ever had a meal like what they would have there? ← Absolutely not. We go out a lot, but I really can't think of a single time I've taken our family to a high end restaurant. Seriously. I'm just trying to be honest here, and I fear that something as fabulous as Jean Georges would be overwhelming. That's why I was focusing on something that would be considered to be more of a "baby steps" approach -- a place that would introduce the kids to a bit more formal service but where the food would be accessible. You have to realize that my children are EXTREMELY independent. Hell, only one of them actually likes barbecue, and even he doesn't love it!

It's ultimately a situation where I know the girls wouldn't care for it, but the boys would. Although there'd always be dessert, right?! I think I need to ponder it a bit more. I can be swayed, Doc!

Rodizio would be fun, but we have plenty of that here. My big problem with rodizio is whether it's really a good value for kids. Yes, all four love meat, but in the end, the 6 year old will eat about 5 bites of steak and declare herself full. Now my 13 year old son, that's another story . . .

I talked to my 13 year old son this morning, and he said that I'd be wasting my money on something like Jean-Georges. He's open-minded enough to enjoy it, and my 8 year old son would think it's cool, but my two daughters would feel a bit too overwhelmed, and in many ways, constrained. So, after actually talking to the kids, I'm re-evaluating our culinary priorities. We don't necessarily have to go to the restaurants or shops that have the "best" of a particular type of food. What I want is for them to be more dazzled by the experience. And even when I say "dazzled", I'm focusing more on that they'll remember the experience -- thus, hot dogs at Gray's Papaya or Papaya King (along with the papaya drink) could truly be memorable. Same with dim sum, which they've never done. I'm not afraid to go to a place that dumbs things down a bit, as I'd rather make a gentle introduction into different types of foods that serves as a stepping stone to greater things. Keep the suggestions coming, as I really appreciate them. And I'll look into the Flay joints.