robyn
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Those "artisan purveyors" - well they're basically mass market for high end restaurants. E.g., when I ate at Per Se - it touted its duck from Stone Church Farm. This is the list of that "artisan producer's" clients:
Aix
Nice Matin
Orsay
Craft
Jean Georges
Jean Georges "Perry St."
W.D. 50
Prune
Tasting Room
Il Buco
5 Points
Savoy
Tabla
Gramercy Tavern
Veritas
Tocqueville
Picholine
Cafe des Artistes
La Grenouille
One By Land Two If By Sea
Sumile
Le Gigot
Cafe Loup
Blue Hill
Blue Hill at Stone Barns
Per Se
Cafe Grey
Daniel
Cafe Boloud
Le Bec Fin
Inn at Little Washington
Mas Farmhouse
Fiamma Osteria
Brasserie J.J. Rachaou
Brasserie Julien
Eli's
Vinegar Factory
L'Absinthe
Paris Commune
Wheatley Hotel
Cru
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I take back everything I've said about him. I NOW LOVE FRANK BRUNI
. My husband - who usually doesn't even read the Dining Out section - laughed out loud - and insisted I read the article before I even had my morning coffee.In particular - I appreciate his criticism of the ubiquitous "tasting menu" and the difficulty involved in dining at many places during what many think are normal dining hours. Guess he has to do it - it's his job. On my part - I don't think I'll ever eat a tasting menu at 5 pm again.
One thing I think he overlooked in the article is that it's much easier and cost-effective for a restaurant to prepare a smaller number of dishes (many of which can be made in advance) for a known number of diners than it is to give diners options. 100 diners - 100 identical meals - no waste. How will chefs ever learn to make soup or other interesting things with yesterday's leftovers?
Thank you thank you Frank Bruni for taking the bully pulpit and saying loudly what most of us can only whisper. I live in northeast Florida - and - if you're ever in this neck of the woods - email me and I will take you to dinner at a very good restaurant where you can dine at 8 and actually choose what you'd like to eat. Robyn
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OTOH - there are diners who would never go to a restaurant that serves a perfect poached dover sole with a perfect buerre blanc sauce - because it's "so terribly old fashioned". Not that they've ever had this dish before - or had it prepared perfectly - it's just not trendy. What's the point of having something terrific if you're not in the vanguard? This is a silly way to look at dining IMO. Much like saying that reading Dickens isn't worthwhile because so many people have already read his books.
Again, though, we're talking (sort of) about two different things.
Let me put it this way. I really love the Brasserie LCB Richou. Absolutely traditional food, usually superlatively prepared. Love it.
BUT if I were a professional reviewer charged with giving it stars under the NYT "star system", I couldn't say it was a four-star restaurant. I may love traditional French cuisine, and they may do it superbly, but for four NYT stars you've got to be at the culinary forefront.
If you think that's stupid, that just means you think the "star system" is stupid. I don't disagree with you. But again, the impetus of this discussion was a question why the critics aren't falling behind Ramsay at the London.
What's in the culinary forefront in New York - except perhaps for WD-50? And I say this in all seriousness. I've had newer cuisine in Miami (at Mosaico before it closed - it was in its "food noir" period then).
All those bars with all the little dishes - well they're a dime a dozen these days. Not only in New York and London - but even Atlanta
. Waste of money in my opinion - unless you're only in the mood for a small meal - or have to get in/out in a hurry. OTOH - it's a clever way for restaurants to maximize sales per square foot in expensive real estate markets.And New York has a chief restaurant reviewer whose idea of a good time is any Italian restaurant with a celebrity chef who knows him. How pedestrian.
I know the limitations of my general near-by dining area - the south. For example - I'll be in Atlanta this weekend and about the best I'm expecting is a nice "riff" on new southern cuisine. Could be very good - but it's hardly cutting edge.
So what restaurants have better food *and* are more cutting edge than The London in New York? Don't need a laundry list. 3 or 4 will do. Robyn
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Why do you think that I am less objective than Frank Bruni?
That's a loaded question, though, since one of the two (related) main problems with Frank Bruni, IMO, is that he's insufficiently objective.
Somewhat OT - but I am curious. What do you think is Frank Bruni's other problem (don't want to read a 40 page thread on him to find out what you think). Robyn
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"I haven't been in France for a lot of years - but just because something is served in France doesn't make it French food (just like Robuchon's food in Tokyo can't properly be called "Japanese")."
Jean Georges and Ripert are very much in tune with what French chefs are cooking in France these days. Nuff said.
"I used to eat at the sister restaurant to LB in Miami at least once a week in the early 80's. Very similar (identical?) menu. Believe me - it's not French food."
Brassiere Le Coze never had a similar menu (other than being seafood oriented) to LB. Far from it. Both of the Brassieres were meant to be exactly that -- informal, scaled down and significantly cheaper food than LB. Any assumptions made about the menu at LB (which after all features food by a chef who was still learning how to cook in France during the early 80's) based upon what was served at an informal outpost in Miami 25 years ago are uninformed.
"And now we've thrown "geriatrics" (by which I assume you mean older people with money) into the same trash heap as the B&T crowd. Do you really care so much who's in the restaurants you're eating at? Guess you do. Who do you prefer to see?"
Not at all. The sole point was that practically no one under 70 eats at La Grenouille. Considering that contemporary gourmands tend to be much more demanding of food than people whose palates were set 50 years ago...that should say something about the relative quality of the meal. (I actually wouldn't mind eating at LG just to experience food of that era -- I have a healthy respect for it -- unfortunately, I'm not so enamoured of the idea that I'm going to pay that kind of tariff).
"3 reviews of the Bar. 3 thumbs up. One person who ate at the Bar also ate at the Restaurant."
Where do you get that? More like qualified thumbs up. It was decent, one course was extremely good. Unfortunately, to have a full meal at the London Bar one could spend less eating at RGR proper -- the difficulty is in making a reservation. Its not bad, it's just that there are better restaurants in the same milieu.
BLC wasn't informal. I think the owners spent about $3 million decorating the place. And - it was named one of America's best 25 restaurants by Esquire magazine. Maguy Le LeCoze spent most of her time there the first couple of years (don't know whether she liked watching over the restaurant - or just liked being in Miami). And although it is hard to compare a place now with a place 20 years ago (or a chef for that matter) - the cuisine was basically fish - prepared simply to highlight the nature/essence of the fish - which is what is served at LB today. I liked the concept (still do).
As for thumbs up/thumbs down - I read what people wrote here (they didn't give stars - so I essentially read the reviews as thumbs up/thumbs down). The reviews of the main restaurant were especially lavish in their praise. Robyn
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Here's the count.
8 reviews of the Restaurant (2 by the same person). 7 thumbs up - 1 thumbs down. Note that 2 people ate there during the "soft opening".
3 reviews of the Bar. 3 thumbs up. One person who ate at the Bar also ate at the Restaurant.
2 people mentioned meals - but didn't give details or opinions (positive or negative).
I think that's pretty good coming from this crowd. Robyn
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"Jean Georges isn't French. It is what I'd call "international fusion". Take a look at the first thing on its web site menu today (I just thought I'd list the first - seemed like the random thing to do): Black Sea Bass with Sicilian Pistachio Crust etc.
LB isn't French either. It's a fish restaurant. Fish is usually a preliminary course in a French meal - not the main. And - in any event - the first item on the LB menu today is Pan Roasted Red Snapper in Gingered Lemon Scallion Broth - Asian fusion - not French."
????
Have you eaten in France recently?
(for that matter, try telling the Parisians who were dining at the original LB in 1981 that it wasn't "French" because it was a seafood restaurant)
"If there is such a New York bias against places like La Grenouille - why has it been in business for 45 years now? Perhaps it isn't a New York bias - but a "reviewer" or a "foodie" bias? And not a New York (people with money) bias?"
I said "New York bias now" -- and yes there most certainly is. The uber-trend in NY is definitely toward "casual high end" -- think Atelier not La Grenouille -- where the clientele is entirely geriatric. (No I have not eaten there. I used to work on the same block and received a pretty comprehensive representation of who walks in the door.)
As for the London Bar -- it has nothing to do with it not being avant garde. Bar Room at the Modern is even less innovative. It does happen, however, to be better.
I like innovation but I don't require it. I do, however, require skill...especially when I'm paying a lot for it.
I once had a quite expensive meal at a restaurant in central Europe where the best course was grilled langoustines served over seared foie gras with truffles. Obviously the taste was extraordinarily good...how could it not? However, that course (as did the others) made no demonstration of actual skill on the chef's part. Anyone can throw luxe ingredients together. I don't want to exaggerate this -- but to some extent that would describe the state of American fine dining until not so long ago. Is there still a clientele for the old standards? Sure. But as they die off those restaurants close....the contemporary NY gourmands are far more demanding than the old guard.
I think another factor here is the distinction between those who live in a dining capital and those who visit them. When you can (and perhaps do) eat it every week you're going to need more differentiation and innovation then someone who as access a few times a year.
I haven't been in France for a lot of years - but just because something is served in France doesn't make it French food (just like Robuchon's food in Tokyo can't properly be called "Japanese").
I used to eat at the sister restaurant to LB in Miami at least once a week in the early 80's. Very similar (identical?) menu. Believe me - it's not French food.
I have never been sure what "casual high end" means. A place where you can spend a lot of money for dinner while wearing jeans? A place where you eat at a bar instead of a table? What does that phrase mean to you?
And now we've thrown "geriatrics" (by which I assume you mean older people with money) into the same trash heap as the B&T crowd. Do you really care so much who's in the restaurants you're eating at? Guess you do. Who do you prefer to see? I recall 2 meals at Cafe Boulud - one in Palm Beach - one in New York. In Palm Beach - we enjoyed some delightful conversation with an older couple. In New York - there are were 2 younger (Miami!) lawyers sitting next to us who managed to defame about a half dozen people we knew very well. They were really PO'd when we told them who we were (and who our friends were). FWIW - the food in Palm Beach was better too.
Anyway - I don't judge restaurants by their clients. I judge them by their food and service. Hope you do the same. And - since I don't eat things like foie gras these days - I think I am judging cooking skills more than most. But you know what - there is an art to procuring ingredients. And cooking them simply. Which is one reason I enjoy dining in California so much.
By the way - I haven't kept count. How many people in this thread have actually dined at Gordon Ramsay at the London as opposed to the London Bar? Think I'll go back in this thread and count. Robyn
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Also, for the purposes as to which this discussion originated, you have to distinguish between your subjective feelings (including "new to you") and more objective criteria. I say that because this discussion started from a question why critics aren't rallying behind Ramsay at the London.
Haven't you been following the news? Newspapers are irrelevant now. Ditto with restaurant critics. "You" - your blogs - your web posts are now the most important thing in everything. Except for mine
.Why do you think that I am less objective than Frank Bruni? Not to mention some half-assed critic from some half-assed magazine or newspaper? Quite frankly - I trust a lot of on line reviews written by "nobodies" more than I trust those written by restaurant critics. For a few reasons. First - most of the people who write on line are actually paying for their food. They know whether their meal was worth the money they paid. Second - they have no axe to grind. They'll usually tell you what their likes/dislikes are - they're not afraid to admit bias. Third - they usually don't have any "history" that can get in the way of an objective review. No one ever said nasty things about them behind their backs (or anything at all). They have no scores to even. Fourth - most are simply average customers. They will usually get the meal I'll be getting (as opposed to the meal a recognized critic will get - which in more than a few cases bears no resemblance to the meal I'm served).
When you decide where to eat - what input sources do you use to make your decisions? Robyn
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Robyn, you are correct that Sneakeater's and my definitions of "Wow" were not exactly the same, but they are also not mutually exclusive and both I think within Oakapple's use of the word. The key element is that for whatever reason the food is memorable for good reasons, similar to your use of "sing." I think the way I used the word, however, was a bit closer to the way you use "sing" as I have the impression that innovation is not really significant for you when dining. Innovation done well, however, is one of the things that floats my boat.
Really new and really delicious is great. And the kind of thing a lucky diner may run across about once every five or ten years. Robuchon's sea urchin with quail egg - new and great. David Burke's sea urchin with quail egg - not new but still great. More commonly - I find "new" simply for the sake of "new" (in terms of cuisines I know something about) - where the food isn't even as good as a home-grilled burger. The best I can say about most of it (not all - but most) is "interesting" - faint praise indeed. It's like watching figure skating IMO. I don't give extra credit to a skater who attempts a quadruple jump but misses it badly.
OTOH - there are diners who would never go to a restaurant that serves a perfect poached dover sole with a perfect buerre blanc sauce - because it's "so terribly old fashioned". Not that they've ever had this dish before - or had it prepared perfectly - it's just not trendy. What's the point of having something terrific if you're not in the vanguard? This is a silly way to look at dining IMO. Much like saying that reading Dickens isn't worthwhile because so many people have already read his books.
If indeed the food at the London is anywhere near as good as that at RHR - it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it isn't "avant garde".
That's why I've had much better luck recently defining "new" as something *I* don't know anything about - even if it's been around for a long time. That's one reason we really enjoyed our dining in Japan - and one reason I picked Germany for our next trip. What does it matter if tons of people have had a perfected delicious dish at a great restaurant before me - if it's my first time? Since there are many more cuisines I don't know about than ones I do - and many more excellent restaurants that I haven't been to than ones I've dined at - I suspect I won't run out of "new things" for a long time. Robyn
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He has actually worked with gordon from the beginning in the Aubergene days mid ninetys and was senior sous chef at Restaurant Gordon Ramsay RHR when i worked there, Hes one of gordons tp boys, Do you really think Gordon would be so stupid as to put a one star italian head chef in charge of a want to be 3star french restaurant??
Simon
This is the bio I was looking at. Everything you say is true - but it emphasized things differently than you did.
One thing I will never say about Gordon Ramsay is that he's stupid - and another is that he serves bad food. To the contrary - the meal I had at RHR a couple of years ago was one of the 2 or 3 best I've had in the last 5 years or so. That's one reason I'm interested in this thread - I want to see how he does in New York. I am more curious about his restaurants than I am about New York
.We hadn't traveled abroad much for a fair number of years - we had to stick close to home (London is close time-wise) due to problems with elderly parents. But now we only have one left - and he is healthy - and we are traveling again. Japan last year. Germany this year. We'll be dining in at least 2 3 star Michelin restaurants in Germany - and I'll be interested in seeing how they compare with the higher end places we've dined at recently in the US and London. Robyn
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It's pretty traditional for you to get a bunch of small dessert items (there are French terms for this that a barbarian like me doesn't know) along with your coffee at upper-level French restaurants. The only difference here is the cart.
You wouldn't say that if you were a true dessert lover
. I've had my share of "after meal dessert throwaways" - and 2 great dessert trolleys. One at Alain Ducasse - and one at the Dining Room at the Ritz Carlton (Buckhead). No comparison. At the latter - I felt like the proverbial kid in the candy store. RobynP.S. The word for those dessert "throwaways" is mignardises.
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"We all know Frank Bruni likes to take away at least one star for anything French and likes to add at least one star for anything Italian. BTW - I ate at Babbo too when Batali wasn't in the kitchen - and I was one of the first people here to say that the food was (overall) mediocre."
Babbo is not mediocre...and certainly deserving of its three stars.
Bruni does have an Italian bias (I ate at A Voce last night and couldn't make up my mind if it was a three star restaurant or not...it's close but maybe not quite). But he gave four stars to JG, which is contemporary French and four stars to LB, which is French. He also gave four stars to Per Se, which is definitely French-inspired. He's given three stars to Picholine and Atelier. Neither of those are four-star restaurants so he hardly knocked them down.
So I disagree that "everyone knows", I certainly don't.
Now is there a general NY bias today against stodgy geriatric places like La Grenouille? Yes. Would Robuchon get slaughtered if he had opened the Mansion in NY instead of Vegas? Absolutely not. Well, maybe for the outlandish prices. Ditto for Guy Savoy.
I'm still trying to get a reservation at RGR so I can't speak to that. I've eaten at the London Bar (equivalent to Maze), and while good, it's no better than say Bar Room at the Modern. There's a lot of cooking in NY going on at that level.
But if you didn't especially like JG, we have fundamentally different palates...and that's ok
I've written up my dining experience at Babbo in the Babbo thread. Won't rehash those things here. In this thread - we will simply have to agree to disagree.
Jean Georges isn't French. It is what I'd call "international fusion". Take a look at the first thing on its web site menu today (I just thought I'd list the first - seemed like the random thing to do): Black Sea Bass with Sicilian Pistachio Crust etc.
LB isn't French either. It's a fish restaurant. Fish is usually a preliminary course in a French meal - not the main. And - in any event - the first item on the LB menu today is Pan Roasted Red Snapper in Gingered Lemon Scallion Broth - Asian fusion - not French.
Per Se is definitely the most French of the 3 (I couldn't find a menu on line - but I have a copy of the menu from when I dined there - and recall part of my meal). I wouldn't object to calling it a French restaurant - both in terms of the structure of the meal and the dishes (although Thomas Keller might).
If there is such a New York bias against places like La Grenouille - why has it been in business for 45 years now? Perhaps it isn't a New York bias - but a "reviewer" or a "foodie" bias? And not a New York (people with money) bias?
Regarding tastes - I was at Jean Georges quite a few years ago. Based on what I've heard - it's gotten better since I was there. Restaurants that are around for a fair amount of time can be moving targets in terms of what comes out of their kitchens - and how good it is. I'm sure the menu at La Grenouille has changed over the course of 45 years.
As for prices - who knows about prices? Next week I'm going to a good restaurant in Atlanta that has fixed menus at $72 and $95. And I think of Atlanta as a cheap place to travel in the US. Also - since I don't drink still wine (it doesn't agree with me) - my bills at nice restaurants tend to be smaller than those of people who love to drink fine wine with dinner. Robyn
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In a review today in The Long Island Newsday they mention that the Bon Bon trolley is an 8 dollar supplement. Is this true? Seems kinda tacky. Is it worth it?
The dinner menus are $80 and $110. So there are 2 choices - make it an option - or bump up the dinner prices by $8 or $10. I don't care which way they do it. Which would you prefer? Robyn
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I m not so sure anybody could tell wether the chef is there or not if there having a blind meal, you could maybe make a guess and maybe get lucke but thats about at, but saying that i know its nice to have the chef there and its obviously there concept, but for example the London, Neil Ferguson has worked for Gordon for over ten years!! Do people really think he would send something out of the kitchen that Gordon wouldnt??
Well there are 2 ways to know for sure. The first is to get a kitchen tour (we never ask but sometimes we're invited) - and the second is to ask the server (which I always do). A third way to find out sometimes is to go out in the alley and have a cigarette. That's where I meet a lot of chefs
.I hadn't really paid much attention to the chef at the London - but I looked up Neil Ferguson when you mentioned him. His Ramsay experience was at the Connaught - not at RHR. Having eaten at the Connaught - it's a Michelin 1 star - and I recall that the food was Mediterranean/Italian - not French. I'm not sure how he'd do as head chef at a French restraurant that aspires to 3 stars (although he has experience working at them in France - e.g., L'Esperance). I guess I'd have to try the restaurant and find out (which I won't be doing in the near future - since New York isn't my travel plans this year). Robyn
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SE and Doc pretty much explained what I meant by "Wow!"
Among the Michelin 3-star restaurants that I've visited, I rank them about the same as Robin: Ducasse the best, then Per Se, then Jean Georges. Right now, I put GR in approximately the Jean Georges class. Maybe it is slightly behind JG, but only slightly.
That comes with the caveat that I've been to most of those restaurants just once, except for Per Se, which I've visited twice. There can be sampling error with such a small data set.
I don't think they said the same thing. There's a difference between "WOW" because I've never seen it before -and "WOW" because it's wonderful (wonderful things can be new - but not all new things are wonderful). I subscribe to the latter view. The word I use instead of "WOW" is "SING" (as in this food really sings to me). And I have pretty high standards for that - food doesn't sing to me very often.
One way to tell if the food is "WOW" or "SINGS" is if you can remember a dish a year or two or ten later without looking at the menu - or pictures you took of the food (I don't take pictures but I do keep menus). I don't think I've eaten more than 10 meals that are "WOW" in the course of a lifetime - and perhaps there are a couple of dozen additional dishes - or even parts of dishes (like the lobster roll at David, Burke & Donatella) in meals where one dish or two was a lot than the rest. Robyn
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Ramsay came to New York with very high expectations. I can't find any precise quote where he's said this... But I've no doubt that, in his mind, he was opening a NYT 4-star, Michelin 3-star restaurant.
There are currently five restaurants carrying 4 stars from the Times. At every one of them, the principal chef spends more time in the kitchen than Ramsay spends, or is intending to spend, at GR. That's not to say all of them are full-time. We all know about Vongerichten's huge empire, but no one doubts that the restaurant Jean Georges is his main baby. Keller doesn't spend as much time at Per Se as at TFL, but his empire is smaller, and he isn't doing a TV show on the side.
With Ramsay, there's a sense that this guy has too much going on to really create anything "special" here. And for a restaurant with four-star aspirations, people want it to be special. When you wear your ego on your sleeves, the critics' knives are going to be out. We all know what happened to Alain Ducasse, and Ducasse came here with a better restaurant than GR.
Lastly, as SE mentioned above, there is a built-in critical bias against places that just replicate an existing standard, no matter how good a job they do. Based on my own meal there, I think GR is doing a very good job at it, but when there's no "Wow!" in the concept, the margin for error is very low indeed.
GR should have opened in Las Vegas. I swear - if Robuchon had opened a high end French restaurant in New York - his reputation would be in tatters.
I've eaten in 3 of the 4 restaurants in New York that have/had 3 Michelin stars: Alain Ducasse; Per Se and Jean Georges. All in different years. The "star chefs" were not in the kitchens when I dined at them. Of the 3 - I would rank them in the order stated in terms of what I thought of the meal - with Jean Georges a distant third. I've also dined at RHR (3 Michelin stars) - and Angela Hartnett at the Connaught (1 Michelin star but another GR restaurant). GR was not in the kitchen when I was at RHR - but Angela Hartnett was. My meal at RHR was better than any I've ever had in New York - or - indeed - the United States. The meal at the Connaught was better than Jean Georges - not as good as Alain Ducasse or Per Se.
So if the London is anywhere as good as RHR - then the food is really good. And if someone - like a restaurant critic - doesn't like contemporary French food - then why doesn't he/she just say so? And pass on anything resembling an objective review? We all know Frank Bruni likes to take away at least one star for anything French and likes to add at least one star for anything Italian. BTW - I ate at Babbo too when Batali wasn't in the kitchen - and I was one of the first people here to say that the food was (overall) mediocre.
BTW - could you please explain to me what you mean when you say "wow in the concept". I have no idea what that means. Robyn
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I could have misinterpreted, but I assumed he meant that GR has only one restaurant in "England" with 3 Michelin stars.
More telling, to me, was the cheeseburger comment.
That was regarding the food at the bar.
This bar - as well as others - are suposed to be like tapas restaurants. Tapas is the stuff people nibble on in Spain during our normal dinner hours because their dinner hour is so ridiculously late. It's "little plates" to tide you over until dinner (although in my case - I frequently made a meal of tapas in Spain because I didn't feel like eating dinner at 11).
Since we can eat dinner at a normal time in a restaurant in the US - there is no reason to go to a "tapas bar" unless you've had a large lunch - or aren't all that hungry for some other reason - and spend a relatively large amount of money for a relatively small amount of food (assuming you're worrying about spending money or having too little to eat).
One other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of these places are very trendy - and the cost of the drinks and the food is basically a "rental charge" for the "real estate" (your seat). It's like going to a cafe in Paris and paying a bunch for a cup of coffee (you're paying for the rent - not for the coffee).
Anyway - I thought the most important aspect of this part of the review is that the reviewer thought the food was good ---> very good. Robyn
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Haven't been to either of the restaurants you mentioned - but we've had good lunch at Eno - and it sounds like the kind of place you'd like. I suppose jeans would be ok - but we usually dress a little dressier than that in Atlanta when we visit (it's a casual city - but it is a big city).
FWIW - we'll be in Atlanta the following week - and we're dining at the restaurant in the Four Seasons - and Bacchanalia. The former is in midtown - and the latter is only a few minutes away. We have an event at the Georgia Dome on Saturday -will be over about 8 pm - and we might try Trois (a new place also in midtown - across the street from the Four Seasons) for drinks and some small plates after. Robyn
P.S. Don't know if you like contemporary design - but there's an excellent store - Retromodern - in midtown. Worth a browse. And across the street from Eno.
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actually,
the classic "Diabolo" is made with brandy.
the classic "Diablo" (which dates to at least the 40's) is made with tequila.
The Ramsay cocktail is not either but bears a very close resemblance to the "Diablo".
If they referred to it as a "whiskey diablo" or a "Ramsay Diablo" I wouldn't have a problem. instead they both claimed a classic as there own and altered it while still purporting it under the classic name.
This the bar menu at the London. It's called a Diablo Gordon Ramsay on the menu.
And at least one cocktail web site seems to think that both versions of the original are spelled "Diablo". Of course - the guy who writes that web site seems to be in Canada - and perhaps his English isn't so great
. Robyn -
Well that's pretty central. Good. I assume you're talking about non-chain places (no Morton's and the like - both Morton's and Ruth's Chris have downtown places).
My favorite places near downtown (they are across the river in San Marco) are 1) Bistro Aix and 2) bb's (in that order). bb's has a sister restaurant - Biscotti's - about the same level - but it is a somewhat longer drive. They are two of the best restaurants in Jacksonville (keep in mind that Jacksonville isn't exactly New York or London or Tokyo). Not walking distance - just a short drive or cab ride. Don't know if you'll be traveling alone - but - if you are - both have nice bars where you can order dinner. I'm pretty sure both have web sites so you can look them up. They are both pretty crowded a lot of the time. I know Bistro Aix doesn't take reservations for a party smaller than 6 and I'm not sure about bb's.
The Jacksonville Landing (walking distance from your hotel) has a bar I like - Twisted Martini. It's a popular bar for "happy hour" after work for lawyers and other people who work in the high rise buildings downtown. The Landing is supposed to get a new Fuddrucker's soon (I know it's a chain - but it's an uncommon chain and I recall their burgers as being excellent). The Landing is in general a kid's hangout with a good view. Not a dining destination for an adult.
If you're a beer drinker - there's a microbrewery/restaurant right across the river from the Landing. River City Brewing. The restaurant is no big deal (it's ok to good - nothing great - except for Sunday brunch - its homemade cold smoked salmon served at brunch is terrific) - but the brews are very good - and you can get appetizers/small plates to go with your beer. If there are fresh local fried shrimp - they're a must (we have a shrimp fleet here). You can take a "river taxi" from the Landing across the river to River City Brewing (the river taxi might also stop at the Hyatt - I don't know).
The best restaurant in the metro area in my opinion is Opus 39 in St. Augustine - about an hour south of downtown. It is a different class of restaurant than those mentioned above - and worth the drive. You can take a look at the web site - and I've written it up here in another thread. If you have a couple of free hours - St. Augustine has some good sightseeing (it really is "The Oldest City"). The Ritz Carlton at Amelia Island has a new restaurant (Salt) with a famous chef (Jordi Valles). Haven't tried it yet. So if I had to pick one destination restaurant for one dinner - I'd pick Opus 39.
I assume that you are coming here for a convention or a business trip - because you're staying downtown. If you were playing golf - you'd be staying somewhere else. If you have some nights free - check out what's going on downtown in terms of entertainment. We are one of the last smaller cities in the US to have a symphony orchestra (and it's good) - and we get plenty of big name acts/shows in our downtown entertainment venues (which are relatively new and very attractive). You will be too late for football season but April is baseball season. We have a great minor league team (Jacksonville Suns) with a beautiful new ballpark downtown. There are worse ways to spend an evening in April in Jacksonville than seeing a game - eating a hot dog - and washing it down with a beer. Apart from these entertainment venues - there isn't a heck of a lot to do or see downtown - and the streets can be dangerous at night. It's not exactly a place to stroll around most evenings. If you'd like to get together for dinner - or a round of golf - PM or email me. Robyn
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Where will you be staying (the metro area is very large - some places are worth a long drive - some - although ok - aren't)? Robyn (I live out at the beaches)
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a quote from Platt's summary at the end:
" you have a taste for bracing whiskey cocktails, take note of Ramsay’s signature drink, the Diablo"
this ticks me off on two levels.
The Diablo, of course, has been around for many years...back when Ramsay was in diapers, if not before.
a. it's disturbing because it only evinces a growing trend that I've been noticing -- restaurants and bars passing off classic cocktails as "signature" or "house-created"....at least they didn't change the name the way many restaurants or bars do!
b. that a professional reviewer would be ignorant of this. (if he doesn't mention cocktails then he doesn't have to know anything about them....but if he does then he should)
I'm not a bartender - but I think this may be a bum rap all around. I did a quick google of Diablo. The classic one seems to be made with brandy - the newer version with tequila. The "Ramsay" Diablo is made with scotch (at least that's what the review says). I think he's from Scotland - and that's why his Diablo contains scotch. Robyn
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You can buy/import stuff like epoisses - it just has to be "aged" 90 days (? about the exact time) or more. Not bad - but not as good as "unaged" IMO. Robyn
Yes, I occasionally can get epoisse (Berthaut) here in Kansas City, so I'm sure that restaurants, like GR can certainly get it in NY - although you're right in noting that they'd (legally) have to have been aged more 60 days.
Another cheese that I always enjoy, but can never find state-side is Vacherin Mont d'Or. Might anyone know if GRNYC or any other high-end establishements has that on their cheese carts?
u.e.
I buy Vacherin Mont d'Or from fromages.com (from France). Had a couple this winter - and they were excellent. Robyn
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P.S. With regard to cheese - I think US restaurants have a problem these days since customs started to enforce the laws against importing raw cheeses. It is very hard to get something like an Epoisses where I live - so I order cheese from France. But I can't get the raw cheeses these days - and restaurants can't either (legally).
It doesn't necessarily have to be an import for me to find it novel/interesting... but yes, if all they had were Roquefort and Parmesan, I'd be disappointed too.
Daniel, I take it you didn't try the "hot dog" one? I'm curious what it was - do you remember the milk/origin?
u.e.
You can buy/import stuff like epoisses - it just has to be "aged" 90 days (? about the exact time) or more. Not bad - but not as good as "unaged" IMO. Robyn
Bruni and Beyond: NYC Reviewing (2007)
in New York: Dining
Posted
Found something funny along the lines of the Bruni article going through a pile of menus. From the David Burke & Donatella dessert menu - at the bottom:
T-shirts 21, Hats 15, Cookbooks 35, Cheesecake Pops 15
Robyn