Sleepy_Dragon

Wouldn't know anything about different species of cow affecting the milk, though that seems very plausible, but as far as regular whole milk goes, it's 3.5% fat, 8.5% milk solids, and 88% water. So perhaps a fattier milk would lead to a richer cheese though not necessarily a noticeably higher yield? It's been awhile since I've made paneer, but I recall needing to go through a lot of milk in order to get a serviceable amount. The recipe I used (From Bengal to Punjab, by Smita Chandra) said 1 quart of Half 'n' Half -or- 2 quarts of milk for one patty of paneer 4 inches wide and 1/2 inch thick. (edited for typos) Pat

Hehehe, thanks for the kind words, Monica, but I don't think I'll be turning this into a Daily Gullet thing. I'm really wiped out, and need some distance and serenity from the whole ordeal. (Yes, there were a couple burst-into-tears moments. Christ I hate that... when all was said and done, I couldn't even eat any of it due to the stress.) No regrets though, and I did learn a lot and enjoyed it too when I wasn't just freaking out. And even managed to apologize to my team mates afterwards for snapping at them, albeit with a mental promise to always double check whether or not everyone has studied the recipes next time. Overall my entire class has done some nice student lunches this quarter, and it's good to set an example of sorts for the first quarter students, though I'd warn any of them who'd try to attempt something like this when they become second quarter next October. It all stemmed from wanting to make the most out of each opportunity, and also a vow I made awhile back after being served something which clearly had been prepared with apathetic uncaring hands, and I intend to stick with it as best as I can for the rest of my years: never, ever cook something without care for the staff meal. And of course its corollary: care does not equal 32 pounds of green beans! All of our cumin, mustard seeds, and garam masala is gone. I'm sure what we used up in a day would have typically served for two quarters, hehe. Pat

Well, it's over. We made many mistakes, and also encountered drama from another class which my instructor says he'll handle thankfully, but we got it all out, and for the most part people enjoyed it. It was nice to see. There was a mix-up with ingredients, where my batch of minced green chillies was added to the daal instead of the batch of de-seeded chillies, so it was way hot, but we improvised by cooking up extra plain daal to add to it, along with some sugar and cream to cut the heat. That ended up working ok, though it wasn't what Mrs. Rushdie originally said to do in her book. So to compromise, I omitted the chillies from the potatoes and cauliflower, and the black pepper from the murgh musallam, and the dried crushed red chillies from the Gujerati sem. I wasn't too thrilled about this but it seemed the best choice in light of cooking for a wide variety of people. So much for carefully calibrated plans! I also burned the first batch of daal, so had to remake it, and that pretty much torpedoed any chance of making chutney, so we took that off. But, there was kheer, made first thing in the morning and chilled by the time lunch rolled around, and all the other main dishes plus the raita came out on time, with the chicken being best IMO. The rest were good too, especially for a first time effort at cooking them in such a huge quantity in one shot, though there are plenty of things I'd do differently next time. We also followed episure's suggestion for doing the rice in rice cookers with caramelized onions, but my team mate couldn't get the onions to caramelize at all today (three attempts!), so they were just soft sauteed onions instead of browned ones. I don't think anyone noticed though. It sure is different cooking on a large scale. I sure learned a lot, like: -- make sure everyone has read and studied the recipes -- delegate, especially during times of trying to recover from a mistake. I went into major tunnel vision mode after burning the daal. And it doesn't help that I'm already heavily wired to be an independent loner. -- go over each and every item to ensure there is no confusion about what gets used where -- check over my math more carefully somehow, though I guess the mistakes have to be ours to make in order to learn anything... At any rate, it's over, and it was a success, we didn't even maim each other intentionally or otherwise, and the vegetarians were thrilled to have three whole items to choose, rather than being relegated to the "vegetarian entree" which the carnivores always pick over before they can get to it, and people liked having a dessert too, which is usually not done. The dish that went the fastest by far was the murgh musallam, and this was the item we'd made the largest quantity of. Could have used another 10 lbs of chicken I think. Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. Everything helped, I really appreciate it. Pat

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and advice. Tomorrow is the big day. Sadly I've decided to wimp out on dessert and go with the familiar kheer, and just arrive early to do it, just so people can have one thing that is familiar. The shrikand would have been perfect time and labor-wise if we had any mango puree on hand. Alas! Nonetheless they are all great ideas, and I'll be squirreling them away. The chutney is still up in the air because I need to see what we have available in the walk-in tomorrow. Bonus points for using things up. Though just from research and reading posts here, I think I've got a fairly good idea of how to make one on the fly, so thanks, all. *fingers crossed* As for richie's inquiry about prep, it was pretty exhausting. And I made requisition mistakes when scaling up the recipes. We ended up short on cauliflower by 10 pounds (curse forgetting As Purchased vs. Edible Portion quantities!), so have made up the shortfall with more potatoes, for a Phool Gobi aur Aloo ki Bhaji dish with a 2:1 ratio of potatoes to cauliflower. Should still be fine though, students like potatoes, and it inadverdently lowers our food cost! I also ordered way way way too much green beans. Had assumed a 4 oz. portion was reasonable per student, until I saw just how much 35 pounds of beans really was! So, we'll just be cooking half that, and the rest of the beans we will save for cooking during Friday buffet service to the public. Note to self: after lunch tomorrow, speak with team in charge of vegetables... Thankfully my team mates were fine with coming early and staying late to get everything done. And they're fast too, faster than me. I've been in two hours before school starts every day this week so far and will do the same tomorrow starting at 6am, and first on the agenda will be kheer, crazed improvisational chutney making, getting the chicken into the marinade, setting up the rice, onions for the rice (thank you so much, episure) and daal, raita, finding enough small dishes for the kheer, and reviewing the production schedule with the team to hopefully get everything out by 11am without too many hitches. We are in the classroom from 8 - 8:50am. The list of main ingredient quantities for those at all curious: 10 lbs cauliflower 20 lbs potatoes 35 lbs green beans (argh...) 35 lbs boneless chicken thighs (probably less since we trimmed them too) 1 gallon masoor daal (may bump this up to two depending on the final taste, glad masoor daal cooks fast) 1 gallon + 1 quart of yogurt 4 dozen jalapenos 175 cloves of garlic 2.5 gallons basmati rice 16 lbs onions ...plus the spices, and whatever else for kheer and chutneys. Which I'm going to calculate now before going to bed. Ack, lunch is in 14 hours! Pat

Wow. So is there a designated or socially accepted place of smashing, or just wherever not aimed at someone's head? Have to admit I'm a bit tickled by what's probably beyond mundane to you all, not just because I'd always thought drinking chai out of earthenware cups would taste so very good, but now it turns out it's also a chance to indulge one's inner 4 year old! Pat

Chef of the Day productions for spring quarter have begun. Pat

One thing I like at a local Japanese cafe is hanbaagu steak with ketchup spaghetti and salad, plus a ketchup and worcestershire sauce for dipping. As for Americans and beef burgers, I think it's just always been that way, plus people really love beef and many see it as something essential for making a meal complete. I would not like a mixed meat patty for a US style burger either. Would just taste wrong to me. But it would be ok for meatloaf. Pat

I have not tried any of those brands, but I love Mikawaya Mochi Ice Cream: http://www.mochiicecream.com I think this brand originated in the US, though by a Japanese family. There are eight pieces in a box, and I could easily polish off a box of the red bean flavor in an afternoon. I love red bean, ginger and black sesame ice creams. Not as fond of green tea ice cream. Pat

That reminds me, how are the earthenware cups dealt with? Do they get cleaned between customers, or are they ground up to make the next batch of clay, or just disposed of, or...? Been wondering about that for a few years ever since reading about it. Pat

Yes, it's only minced beef in the US. Occasionally people may add a little bread crumbs or beaten egg as a binding agent if the meat is very lean, but hamburger = beef here. There are also things like turkey burgers, made of ground turkey, but it's similar in that there is only one kind of meat in the patty. Also, it's just called hamburger, not hamburger steak. Though there is also Salisbury Steak, which is also minced ground beef with some chopped onion, and often served with a brown mushroom gravy. Pat

Ah. Ok. Well, I apologize for coming across like a condescending yammerhead here. And I agree about being skeptical as well, and hope your friends are finding other things to talk about aside from proselityzing about their diets. Can certainly understand being frustrated with it. If you do order your chicken like that, maybe borrow a line from Marge Simpson when she gets Homer some fried chicken just the way he likes it: "No meat. Extra skin." Pat

Hehehe. I spent a year working at Burger King, years ago. Our conveyor grill was positioned so that anybody who went up to the cash register could see the flames. I still remember my introductory tour where the manager showed it off to me with a "Yes, we really do flame broil our burgers." Anyway, to answer whoever mentioned seeing "grill" on their ticket, it's not a setting for a fresh off the grill item per se, but just the generic term for any kind of special request. So if you wanted your Whopper cut in half, without mayo, or whatever else, the ticket would say "grill" if the cashier punched it properly. Pat

Ok, seriously though, it's either do something non-food related if you genuinely like the people in question (), or accept that you're going to explore your masochistic side. I (heart) my relationship arrangement. People we both like we hang with together, people only one of us gets on with, the other is not made to hang with unless they choose to, in which case it's expected of them to be gracious, and best of all, she likes the tomato, onion and bell pepper globs and hates eggplant, so I pass her all my globs in trade for the eggplant. Bliss! Pat

Yeah, I can understand that, and agree about the attitude as well. I don't like it either. Even so, if a group was that dissimilar in dietary preferences or whatever, why not just do a potluck or go out to a restaurant, or do something not related to food? I mean, I guess I'm assuming you like these people, which to be honest, makes no sense to me at all given my own experiences with the interminably vocally fussy, but ok, I'm not you, don't have the whole picture, yadda... What is it the rest of the group does when someone else decides to do a dinner party? genuinely curious, Pat

There's a recipe for Murgh Makhani in 50 Great Curries of India, by Camellia Panjabi. The ingredient list for the sauce itself is tomatoes, dried fenugreek leaves, chilled butter (because the sauce is cooked briefly and the butter must not be allowed to turn into ghee, thus chilled to start with), paprika, a few drops of vinegar, garam masala, and single cream. In doing other research today, I read another recipe that calls for the addition of honey, but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it. edited for typos Pat

One time, my partner had never encountered bok choy before, and her first mouthful, she tried to chew and swallow, but it literally made her gag and run to the bathroom and throw up the rest of her meal. Would people be berating her for being rude? My only concern was her well-being that night, and making sure she had tea to drink. For the record, I agree about gradually teaching oneself to like things. I do this too, it took me four or five tries before I learned to enjoy uni (raw sea urchin) for example. But still, the first time I tasted it, there was just no way in hell I was going to be able to swallow it, and I didn't. Same for the second and third time. I'm still trying to teach myself to like big gloppy solid globs of tomato, bell pepper and onion, but it's been a few years now, and the texture really just isn't going to fly. I suspect I'm going to acquire a taste for natto (also an ongoing project) before acquiring one for those globs, and will probably just flat out give up on them at some point. It's a texture thing, and I might add just about the only thing I really cannot swallow. Other items I dislike and can still swallow, but not these. If you're able to control your body so strongly as to prevent that level of wretching and pull off a charming witty conversation on top of the facade, more power to you, I guess. But past a certain point, I just don't think it's very productive to take on a "If I can do it why can't you?" stance. I'll still try things I don't like when other people make them, but it's better to not find oneself in such a situation in the first place, which is easily done by turning down the first invitation, then later on expressing regret for missing it and inquiring how the event went, and details about the food. People generally love to talk about that kind of thing. "So what kind of a chop did you use for those tomatoes? Yeah? Then you simmered them and ate up each juicy chunk with a fork?" Voila. Info. As for dealing with non-foodies, I dunno... I still gotta ask, why bother with the torture in the first place? At the risk of sounding like that much maligned bumper sticker, life's too short to eat with non-foodies. It's easy enough to find out about someone's eating habits, for the sole and simple reason that people love to talk about themselves. Voila. Info. Before any thought of invitation even crosses one's mind, why not ask what they like to eat just as a matter of course in a conversation of getting to know each other? I mean, I just do that anyway because food tells so much about a person and it's endlessly interesting anyway. Family style dinner also helps, rather than insisting on teasing each individual's plate to spec. Let everyone scoop up what they want, watch, then decide if a more fancy production later on is warranted. Or go to a restaurant together -first-, and observe. Pat

Ah, that's true, I forgot about the family ties thing. Not only in terms of increasing the Indian population base, but also the possibility that auntie or dad or whoever worked as a cook before (or just gets nostalgic about what they used to eat all the time) and wants to try opening a restaurant here with the help of their techie's financial backing, plus the pleadings of all the other Indian techies. Guess time will tell. One restaurant owner told me that 15 years ago, there were maybe 5 Indian restaurants in all of Seattle, and now there are 53 of them, as of two years ago. So perhaps the tastes of local folk will change too just by virtue of getting tired of the same menu. Neither am I, and it's all speculation on my part too based on trying to observe what's been sticking around, what hasn't, and what's changed. One comment the Pakistani owner of a local spice shop mentioned is that as far as street snacks go, it's also a social thing that has to be duplicated, because people go to chat and hang out while eating them, sometimes popping them in one after the other as the wallah makes them. Which means some kind of lively street scene with lots of Indian folks around, plus a food code amenable for hot made from scratch street snacks, which Seattle has neither of, and I suspect is probably too *ahem* genteel for the sight of people thronging around munching on food while chatting away. As for that place on Queen Anne, it was called Mayuri. I've bitched about this in another PNW thread, the gist being hating everybody on Queen Anne for the longest time for letting this closure happen. Maybe 2/3 of their menu was the standard mughal restaurant stuff, though it was well executed, and the other third was South Indian. The award I specifically recall was something about being ranked #1 for Best Korma, though there was another I forget, plus positive reviews. They're still around in (surprise...) Bellevue, and this is their website: http://www.mayuriseattle.com Pat

Good idea about a red chilli and garlic chutney. Mmmm! As far as the rice is concerned, mostly the biggest issue right now is we do not have a kitchen to ourselves. There are other teams who will be using the two 6 burner stations, though we'll probably have the wok station to ourselves. Ideally, what I'd like to do with the rice is see if I can do a nice flavorful dish using caramelized onions and spices added to rice done in rice cookers. Low maintenance, turn it on and forget about it until it goes *ding!*. Does that seem like something acceptable? And yes, there ought to be a dessert... I'm just worried there won't be enough time to make one. Teams generally aren't making 4 different entrees plus starch and raita for the student lunch, so I'm cognizant of piling more onto my team than would be usual. Kheer perhaps? That would be something cooling and familiar among a group of dishes that stretch what most have tasted, though it does require some babying to make sure it doesn't form a skin or boil over. What do you all do for quick desserts other than sliced fruit? And would also have a low food cost? Not asking for much am I! Pat

Yeah, agree with what CompassRose said. I also agree that it's rude and uncouth to make histrionics at the table, though I personally would not do this, and haven't encountered this with people I've cooked for just because there's something self-selecting about being into food in my experience: I generally don't get along too well with people who don't love food and also do the euuuw thing, it's behavior that crosses into many other areas aside from food. Which is why I'm also careful about who I'd invite over for a meal. I can't think of any Atkins folks I get along with. Not to say that it would never happen, but in my realm of acquaintances, it hasn't. Same same with people who I notice treat badly those in service related industries. Probably the easiest short-hand I can think of is "Yammerhead", where it's about a person with a very one way mirror outlook on life. On the other hand, a person whom I like and get on swimmingly with (especially as they're thoughtful, and not a yammerhead), it's not going to phase me in the least if they tell me they don't like such and such foods. I would have asked them beforehand, and would also sympathize with memories of being made to choke things down. This also includes vegetarians, which again, wouldn't be an issue because I'd know them well beforehand to know what sorts of vegetarians they are, and though I'm a carnivore, I enjoy vegetarian dishes and would be just as happy to think of a way to make them. So, maybe the best way to avoid all this in the first place is to select for people based on a broader set of values as well as overall likeability and congeniality. But, if one insists on being the social butterfly, I think a good host has to at least do some research beforehand about the people they're inviting. Pat

Only had Indian food once in Portland around 5 years ago, and don't especially remember it. But as far as the tech economy goes, kind of hard to say though it's an interesting thing to consider for me. My apologies in advance if it's too off-topic given that most of my post is going to be about Seattle, so feel free to delete or whatever. So in Seattle, or rather, on the east side just outside of Seattle in Bellevue and Redmond where Microsoft is located, in the last few years there have been some really good south Indian places which the Indian tech workers patronize. Whereas in Seattle, I think the Indian restaurants have been around longer, but haven't done much beyond the usual mughal restaurant thing. There was one attempt at bonafide Southern Indian food in the Queen Anne neighborhood but they couldn't attract enough customers to stay open, despite winning press awards. But then, we have fantastic Ethiopian and Eritrean food here, as well as Vietnamese. Less so for Chinese places but there are a few. Mostly run by people who near as I can tell, aren't big time chefs or anything like that, and are mostly running holes in the wall which cater to local immigrant populations, with zero fanfare. Especially the African places, where on a Friday or Saturday night there's a bank of empty taxi cabs just outside some of them. So tech wealth would bring money, and that one Indian place I mentioned was certainly located in a neighborhood with lots of tech money (people -mobbed- the more expensive pan-fusion places around it), but is money and a specifically Indian techie population enough I wonder. My gut feeling is no unless that population reached a pretty extreme critical mass, and it seems somewhere along the line, the immigration regulations would have to change in order to change this. Certainly for Seattle, it seems like Bellevue and Redmond have attracted most of the great cooks, what few of them there are. The tech workers themselves aren't going to be the ones slaving away in a restaurant, and there seem to be very few if any of the non-tech or professional locals around. And the few cooks who could get into the country probably aren't going to be able to afford to live in, let alone open up a place in an area with a high concentration of dot.commers. And I'd imagine it's only gotten much much worse since 9-11. I mean christ, the school I went to for evening Japanese classes was shut down for a time because of suspicion of harboring terrorist activity via their ESL classes, and they've also been hurting financially because so much of their business is teaching English to Japanese exchange students, who've had tons of trouble getting in, or just don't bother anymore because of what they have to be subjected to for background checks. Seems like a lot of other stuff needs to change if we're going to get uniformly good Indian food in the PNW. Either that, or all that's left is some type of gussied up fusiony thing which would attract non-Indian people with money. Not sure I like the sound of that, but oh well. Pat

I sort of miss NY pizza, though not as hardcore as I used to miss it. Good bagels too. And having a bustling Chinatown. Definitely miss Australian fish 'n' chips. But, it's ok. Seattle's got plenty good going for it, so I try to focus on that. Much rather live here than there even though I was born and raised there. Sucks about the race to the bottom at agriculture and food worker expense has combined with increasingly crazy food handling regulations to ham-handedly mitigate the consequences of that race. Can't help but think those things have an effect on what we can do here. Pat

Hehe, to add to the kit-bashed names, there is a nail salon on a certain street in Seattle WA, and above the name of the salon is a black and white sign in a metal frame on the roof which says: FOOD DISCO So we called it just that: The Food Disco. "Yeah, the big Safeway by The Food Disco!" Also, outside of Spokane WA is (was? been awhile since last I've been in the area) a Chuck E Cheese type of establishment with an awning with type along the bottom of it that read: PIZZA FISH YOGHURT And the numerous bad Chinese places all in a row on Division St. in Spokane still crack me up, because each one advertises "Chinese and American Food". Need to cater to the locals, ya know! Another funny thing I passed by was a grocery store with one of those dot matrix electric lit signs advertising all the sale specials. One came up: "Chicken Beast: 2.99/lb". My partner at the time did not believe me, so dead in the middle of a Spokane winter I convinced her to go there with me and wait for Chicken Beast to flash up. It did. Soon after that we made it a habit just to wait for it whenever we were passing by: "Chicken Beast! Yay!" Pat

Thanks for that bit of info, Richie. Didn't realize the deal with black vs. brown mustard seeds. I'd send invites or something if I could, but maybe it's for the best that I can't. It really is the first time I'll be involved in cooking on this kind of scale, and I may be begging for a spectacular failure. Not a pretty sight to be confronted with 140 hungry or disgusted students! The chicken dish and the potato and cauliflower dish I've made many times before, so no worries there. I'll do a test run of the other two tomorrow, and see what the deal is with the mustard seeds, if any. Sadly, one thing I've had to do is halve the amount of green chilli and cayenne each recipe calls for so that people with more fragile palettes can eat it. Mrs. Jaffrey's recipes call for less heat than Ms. Rushdie's, so for the daal it'll be about 1/3 the amount called for. Might just go ahead and make a spicy green chilli chutney anyway just for the folks who might appreciate it. Pat

Guilty as charged. Especially when it comes to big and plentiful soggy chunks of tomato, onion and bell pepper. I think Chicken Cacciatore is a way to ruin a perfectly nice batch of chicken. Though I did have this one version where the tomatoes and onions were cut up small, and in lesser quantities where you could actually see that sauce espagnole comprised the majority of the sauce, and I enjoyed that, bits of tomato and onion and all. Usually though, people just chunkify the sauce into a tomato and onion glop, and it just induces my gag reflex. Pat

Hehehe, you could all come, you just have to be a student at my school! Thanks for the suggestion, behemoth. I'll ponder further which of the two rice recipes to pick, though am leaning towards Simple Buttery Rice with Onion because we'd have to make vegetable stock to replace the chicken stock for Spiced Basmati Rice. We'll see how prep goes. Another question for everyone: the Gujerati Sem recipe calls for black mustard seeds popped in oil, but I've only got access to brown. How would this change the taste of the dish, and should I worry about that? Pat