Tonyfinch

Bux, I wasn't looking for English speaking people. Just someone who could translate a few items of menuspeak. I mean you don't have to be able to hold a conversation on thermodynamics to be able to translate a few ingredients and some cooking processes from Spanish to English. I mean how hard can it be to learn a few basic words, or to ensure that the menu is accurately translated? It IS a Michelin starred restaurant after all, they must expect some foriegn foodies to pitch up there.

Pedro, yes it was. But despite the spectacular mountain setting I was far less impressed. When we realised that none of the young servers spoke a SINGLE WORD of English (didn't they study it as a second language at school? at least enough to know a few basic menu words?) we relied on the English translation menu to order. Big mistake as too late we realised that this menu bore little relation to the up to date Spanish one.Items were different, missing etc. A dish of suckling pig with "truffled rice", for example, came minus the truffled rice. A starter with "black pudding" came without black pudding. When I finally looked at the Spanish menu-no mention of truffled rice and black pudding Partly my fault, you could argue, but if they're going to give you an English menu in the first place............ Service was also strangely rushed. Our starter plates were cleared away and maincourses bought to the table in literally seconds, before our bottle of red wine had arrived. I tried to discuss some of those issues but there was no communication and everything I tried was met with looks of blank incomprehension, so I gave up. I'm sure you could have a good meal here. Some of our food was OK. But some was way misconceived-an amuse of watermelon soup with fish. Watermelon and FISH? I don't think so. IMO this place cannot hold a candle to Casa Gerardo, but you'd obviously get more out of it if you spoke more Spanish, or went with someone who does.

It is nothing of the sort. It was downright poor treatment. I suspect it stemmed from when we asked to be moved from next to a group of six Chinese men ALL of whom were chainsmoking. We were told that we could not move and that all the tables were reserved, despite the fact that at that time half the restaurant was empty. I politely pointed out that there was another table for two vacant and we would be leaving one free and was told that this was "our" table and we couldn't be moved. I would have walked out then and there but we wanted to eat there. Our food was relentlessly mediocre, had no balance, no discernible order, was plonked down slapdashly by a po faced waitress. But what was worse was that this group of chainsmokers were getting completely different food. We were literally feet from them and I saw everything they had. they could have been dining in another restaurant. They had interesting and unusual dishes served steaming hot (ours were lukewarm) by a solicitous and charming waitress. Eventually I pointed out to the very unlovely Mr Peng that they were getting completely different food, and so were other people I had begun to notice. To which he said; "You had enough now. You go" I nearly punched the bastard. Don't give me cultural differences, Mog. He decided he didn't like me so treated us both like shit, while not forgetting to relieve me of money that would have been better spent down my local takeaway. So there!

Classical cooking at The Fat Duck ? Where do you consider ultra modern then?

Just back from three weeks and fifteen restaurants in the Asturias in Northern Spain. Three of the restaurants had Michelin stars and according to the very helpful egulleter Eric Malson this long established roadhouse on a scraggy stretch of road west of Gijon is, despite having "only" one star, one of Spain's best. Casa Gerardo has been in the same family for five generations. Current chef/owner is Pedro Moran but his son Marcos speaks some English and immediately came out of the kitchen to greet us, showed us to our table in the pleasant upstairs room which was buzzing with informally dressed families and couples, and offered to devise a lunch for us. A twelve course 3 and a half hour extravaganza followed: Spanish Omelette Ice Cream with Onion Galette Tomato and Asturian Cheese Soup with Toasted Almonds and Asparagus Duck Foie with two Fruit Coulis and Pine Nuts Mussels with a Parsley and Garlic Marinara Red Mullet with a Dessicated Tomato Salsa Sea Bass with Pineapple and Potato Cubes and Orange Sauce Baked Lamb with Honey Fabada Asturiana Orange and Papaya with Mango Ice Cream Chocolate Mousse with Almond, and Passion Fruit ice Cream Arroz Con Leche Cafe Creme with Juniper and Red Grapefruit. All this was washed down by a half bottle of Cava, a half bottle of Albarinho Rias Baxas, a bottle of Artadi Rioja and two huge glasses of Lustau PX sherry with the desserts. Coffee and Cognac were complimentary What a lunch! It took me two days to recover. These were by no means tiny tasting portions. In truth it was too much. Asturian Fabada (similar to Cassoulet) is filling enough on its own, let alone as the eighth course of a twelve course meal. Four desserts was probably two desserts too many. But overall it was a fabulous meal, steering a fine balance between traditional regional and modern progressive and some dishes (the amazingly concentrated Tomato soup with Toasted Almonds, the Spanish Omlette Ice Cream, the spankingly fresh fillet of Mullet with the dried salsa, the Arroz Con Leche-so intense-) truly had the wow how did they do that factor. The cost of this feast with a generous tip for the excellent service-170 Euros, about £120 for two. If you're anywhere near the region don't miss it.

What constantly impresses me is how they keep the quality so high in the face of such crowds. Marvellous sizzling Seekh Kebabs last night, bursting with juice and flavour and what are they? 70p a stick?. Wonderful dahls and breads. Why isn't every Pakistani restaurant around there doing what they're doing? I've eaten in all of them and the only one that comes close for the food is the Lahore Kebeb House in Umberstone St, but that falls way down on ambience and service (and hygeine apparently-it was closed 3 times in 2002 by environmental inspectors-maybe they've put it right now). I've been into the kitchens at Tayyabs and they are spotless. The people are nice. I luuurrve the place.

I have to try and grit my teeth as Mogsob constantly sings the praises of Hunan as I realize I am in a minority of one in disliking this restaurant. But WONG KEI? I'm sorry. The place is crap. It serves relentlessly perfunctory food on plastic plates delivered by bad tempered and downright rude waiters in cramped and uncomfortable surroundings. The only good thing you can say about it is its cheap. If you're a student, or the sort of person who enjoys queuing up to be told to piss off by bouncers at nightclubs you might enjoy it.

I'm puzzled by the comparison with The Fat Duck. I can't say I noticed any similarity myself. Matthew what were the similarities you found? I plan to return to Hibiscus as soon as possible. I have to say I have no plans to return to The Fat Duck

The Savoy Grill was by no means full last night but it was a Monday. We had a really nice booth type table and the service was extremely solicitous throughout. I tried to convince my friend that this was because they knew the famous Tony Finch from egullet but she soon replied with "don't bullshit me, they're treating everyone the same" Actually when Matthew Fort described the food in The Guardian as "middle of the road", I know what he means. I don't necessarily mind middle of the road and it particularly suited my friend, who is a conservative eater (she ordered her lamb well done -the EMBARASSMENT. But then again she was born in Penge so what can you expect?) Amuses, ballotine of foie gras, smoked trout with caviar,canon of lamb Provencale style, roast Anjou pigeon with foie, the desserts (they have dispensed with the dessert trolley)-all were fine and correct. The pigeon was especially flavoursome. There was nothing wrong with the meal at all. But it did lack that zip, that excitement you get in a really top place. It was a bit production liney, lacking a chef's personal touch. Still it is "only" £40 per head for food which by London standards and given the superb quality of the room, the comfort, the service including a very helpful (female) sommelier, still represents good value for IMO and I would go again. Matthew Fort sneered that the place was full of middle aged people (how old is Matthew Fort?). And he's right. It was definitely spot the under 40s night last night. But the next table was Alan Coren, so we were mingling with the stars and besides, if I want to mix with young people I'll go and queue outside a club in the pissing rain for three hours so that I can be told to fuck off by the doorman

I wasn't trying to be harsh. I was trying to be vicious.

There's one coming up in October. I'll be posting details very soon.However, sorry but after that I will NOT count you in until and unless you specifically confirm and give a definite commitment. Saying I MIGHT come will not do I'm afraid. Goes for everyone BTW.

Ubon is in the Four Seasons Hotel at Canary Wharf. In the same hotel is Quadrato, an upscale Italian restaurant which never seems to get reviewed anywhere but is really very good. If you want to splash out it sells the best Italian white wine I´ve ever drunk-La Bernadina , a chardonnay from Ceretto in Piedmont. There is a branch of the Royal China chain of Chinese restaurants just in front of the hotel which does excellent Dim Sum and is packed with Chinese families at weekend lunchtimes.

You mean they DON´T think its crap? Sad, sad.....

Please report back on what he says.

This sounds like an extremely nastyand retrograde culinary development. At least in France you'd be sure that the cheese you put in your naan was good quality The idea of putting plastic processed cheese slices into naans, bread or burgers or anything should be discouraged at all costs and I think you should start a newspaper campaign to warn people off this non-food immediately. Plastic cheese in food in Malaysia? Whyowhyowhy?

Christ Robin, you never told me yesterday that you were with a VEGETARIAN when you partook of this grotesque feast. I mean how could you? All those grinning staring heads. Actually I think they should go one further with the transmitter and switch from tweeting to "Go ahead, motherfucker, make my day" just as you're about to pop them in your mouth. That way St. John might do the right thing and pay you to eat them, rather than expecting you to...er....cough up for this doubtful privilege.

Actually very little Indian everyday cooking is done in butter ghee these days, either in restaurants or in homes. It is considered to be just too rich. Most restaurants use either vegetable oil or the vegetable ghee that comes in those big yellow drum canisters. Some still finish with butter ghee but the several people I know who own/run Indian restaurants say that the demand is for less and less fat all round, and customers will often pour off the excess before starting on a dish. The home cooks I know also use butter ghee very sparingly, but I agree when it is used it does provide a unique dimension.

Well you appered to be having trouble grasping why the answer to your original question was "no".

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Yes but I think you'll find that malai in this case is a kind of paneer-which I've already cited as an exception. It was the use of European style cheese I was talking about. You see I don't have a problem with chefs using local ingredients,. Cafe Spice Namaste in London has Tandoori Duck, and marinated Venison and is one of my favourite upscale Indian restaurants. Salmon is fish plentifully available and can be used in place of another fish. It is when an ingredient is introduced which goes against the fundamental tenets of the cuisine that I question it. Would you expect to find pork on the menu in a Jewish restaurant? Would you expect to find cheese in a Japanese or Chinese restaurant? What about fermented fish paste in an Italian restaurant? How about dog in an English restaurant? Or if that's too extreme-donkey, or horse? Its not about being reluctant to experiment, its about experimenting while still respecting the integrity of the cuisine's cultural framework. But I admit I've laboured the point now. Tell me more about these chefs you know.

SC, I'm talking about CHEESE here. Not other ingredients. The French produce tonnes and tonnes of the stuff. A lot of people make a living from it. They need restaurants to sell it. They wish to see it incorporated into menus. It is an economic imperative that it is marketed. it has nothing to do with being "creative". No creative Indian chef in the UK or anywhere else in the world gets creative with CHEESE. Apart from your chap, apparently (could you elaborate on him?) Why then in France? Cheese is an irrelevancy to Indian cuisine (apart from Paneer, as we've said, which probably merits a separate discussion) And the Blanc example sort of proves my point. French chefs before have tinkered with Asian flavours and spices. Normally it comes down to a tentative sprinkle of curry in the cream sauce for the scallops. The dish is then called "Coquilles al la creme avec Epices Orientale" or some such. In other words, Indian food Frenchified. The truth is French chefs don't have a clue about how spicing really works, and what indian food is all about, and in fairness they do not pretend to. But I'm not going to pretend that putting cheese in a Naan is an advance or a development on Naan whatsoever either. It is a detraction from the beauty of great Indian bread to put cheese in it and that is why the great majority of Indian chefs would never dream of doing it. if it enhanced the cuisine, they would.

I'm aware that pork is used in India. Indeed most Indian cookbooks have recipes for it. However, as i've said, it rarely shows up on restaurant menus either there or here (the UK). My point is that there is no demand from the British to have it on menus. Or beef which also rarely shows up. So why not? i can only conclude that there is a greater respect for the dietry laws of most Hindus and Muslims to the point where we realise that pork and beef would be offensive to large sections of those working in the restaurants and we are prepared to accept lamb and chicken as the meats in Indian restaurants because we accept that that is what most Indians who eat meat eat. It is clear that the Austrians and Germans (pork is also commonplace in German Indian restaurants) do not have that same degree of respect or cultural consciousness and are not willing to contemplate giving business to restaurants unless they serve pork, regardless of what the restaurant workers feel.

fresh_a. I have pointed out to you that putting cheese in naan does not happen outside of France. I have no experience of it in the UK despite having eaten in Indian restaurants all over the country (though Scottish Chef says he's had it, so it apparently does happen) Cheese (of the European kind) has no place in thousands of years of great traditional Indian cuisine. To include cheese is to fundamentally misunderstand how the cuisine operates. Its the equivalent of putting, say, soy sauce into French food. It just has no place. You can slop it in if you like and say it tastes better but that's only because you can't eat food without soy sauce and you're not willing to try. You can put anything with anything and say its "justified", you can slop ketchup over everything if you wish, but if we're interested in learning about and respecting the traditions of cuisine we will refrain from chucking in ingredients which are completely outside that cuisin'e normal parameters.

SC.It is an absolute fact that over 90% of High St curry houses in the UK are run by Bangladeshis. If its not the same in Scotland then indeed it must be that the demographics are different but its certainly the case in England and Wales. Most of these do not have original chefs as such. They have jobbing cooks who have no particular skill at cooking and who do it because its as good a job as any. Hence the cheap curry house formula seved up daily in restaurants around the land. Most of the exceptions to this rule are in London (again can't speak for Scotland). These are either in enclaves with a high Asian population- Whitechapel, Southall, Wembley, Tooting-serving genuine regional food-or in very upmarket Central London restaurants such as Zaika and Tamarind, which do have skillful and original chefs and which aim for Michelin stars.

Fresh-a we seem to have a communication difficulty here. What you don't seem to be getting is that ONLY in France do Indian restaurants serve Naan with cheese. This is NOT because the Indian owners like it that way. It is because their French customers demand it. And that is because they are French, and the French like to eat cheese. Even in Indian restaurants. Austrians demand pork all the time. So Indian restaurants have to serve it. The market in this type of restaurant is not driven by what the owners wish to cook but what customers demand to eat. The British diner does not demand pork or beef or cheese from its Indian restaurants and therefore these ingredients are totally absent in virtually all of them. In the UK the important selling point for Indian restaurants is that they serve cold lager and that they are cheap. This is because customers will traditionally visit after the pub and demand more cold beer. There is a sub demand that the food is chilli hot, because amongst a certain type of diner eating hot curry equates to being macho. In the UK its not the ingredients themselves that are compromised but the quality of those ingredients, which are often pre-prepared and mass produced out of packets and jars to keep down costs.