Tonyfinch

The New Tayyab is only open after 5pm. The Old Tayyab-two doors along the road, is open every day for lunch, with the same staff serving the same food from the same kitchen.

Jeez. Tell me something, Bux. How much experience do you need to have before it is acceptable to voice the now apparently controversial opinion that the best fresh asparagus must always better than the best tinned asparagus? How much asparagus, both tinned and fresh, do you have to have eaten to qualify? It's very notable that the language of discourse is constantly being interpreted pejoratively on this board. Why is it when I dispute an opinion on another board I am disagreeing with it. But on this board I am "dismissing" it? This seems to be happenening a lot here. As for the "voice of inexperience" versus the "voice of experience", what on earth are you talking about? The voice of inexperience challenges the voice of experience throughout the history of mankind in all walks of life. It is perfectly reasonable for those of us who haven't been converted to the ecstatic joys of tinned asparagus to "challenge" those who say that some tinned asparagus is better than almost all fresh. What, we're just supposed to "defer" are we? Well I'll tell you something. I dont "do" deference. If the response of "the voice of experience" to a "challenge"( again, why is a disagreement suddenly a "challenge"?) is not to discuss, but to pick up his can and walk away then I'm afraid he can't have a great deal to offer to the "less experienced" amongst us.

Actually threads deterorate quickly when people find it difficult to distinguish between honest disagreement and personal attacks. Are we not able to have a discussion about canned v fresh vegetables without people getting defensively shirty about it? As for absolutes, Victor stated that this particular canned asparagus was better than almost all fresh asparagus. Now ,true I haven't had this canned asparagus. But by the same token I suspect that Victor hasn't had all the world's fresh asparagus. I imagine that in our time, though, we've both eaten a lot of asparagus, both canned and fresh, no? Look I'll put it this way,then: I find it hard to believe, given the amount of asparagus I have eaten, that even the best canned asparagus can be nearly as good as even very good fresh asparagus, let alone the best. I would imagine that 99% of people who have eaten both would believe the same. But allright, don't take it as a fact.

Why?

You guys are great ones for putting words in mouths. No-one used the term "ridiculous" or "awful" or "nasty" or criticised canned fish or Ferran Adria. A statement was made above that a certain kind of canned asparagus was better than almost all the world's fresh asparagus. I challenge that statement. Canned asparagus can never be as good as good fresh aparagus. Now of course their is a lot of no good fresh asparagus around-especially in the UK. And I'm sure that the best canned stuff is bettere than that. But get hold of the best fresh asparagus from around Europe and it knocks the canned stuff into a corner. And that's a fact.

The idea that the best examples of canned vegetables compare favourably with even good examples of fresh vegetables is laughable. I haven't had this paricular canned asparagus from but if it compares favourably with the best fresh white asparagus from France, Italy and Germany, I'll be a monkey's uncle. The canned asparagus I have had in Spain does have flavour, but is inevitably slimy and disintigrated in texture due to the processing and the vaccuum packing. I am not opposed to all canned foods. But the over reliance on canned vegetables in Spain is a peculiar feature of the cuisine and cannot be dressed up as a positive compared to the best of fresh vegetable dishes, whether in Spain or elsewhere.

I had a marvellous version of this dish at the El Hornu restaurant in Pancar near LLanes in Asturias this Summer. I don't know what type of Pimiento was used but it seemed to me that the Bacalao was silkened up by the inclusion of creamed, pureed potato, much like a French Brandade. The Pimientos were also surrounded by an intense Pimiento reduction, which could almost have been sun dried. Don't recall pine nuts though. This restaurant has a Michelin "Bib Gourmande" BTW, and is well worth seeking out if you're in the area for excellent examples of hearty regional cooking.

My local London butcher has Grouse for £7.50. However I'm sure they're smaller that the ones we had at Wilton's.

Why, do you have to eat him as well?

At Wilton's the "game chips" were just crisps. Macrosan might differ but I'm sure they were just plain crisps out of a packet.

No better place in London for a couple of old fuds like Macrosan and me to meet up to grouse and eat grouse than the long standing Wilton's on Jermyn St. Slightly less touristy than Rules, very similar to Green's nearby, it plays on all that old fashioned, middle aged, clubby British atmosphere to perfection. You either like that sort of thing or you don't. I'm a sucker for it but I have to say I don't think there was anyone there under forty the other night. Its formal (gentlemen must wear a "coat"-ie jacket, an American tourist giveaway there) and its expensive. Two whisky sours at the bar cost £17.50-which I thought was pushing it a bit. No wines under £20 on the list as far as I could see. And given that the grouse cost £28.50 each, charging £3.50 for each side order of veg. seemed bordering on the greedy (although a celeriac puree was delicious). But the grouse itself was a revelation to me. I'd only had it twice before, both at home, and had never got on with its high gaminess. I don't know whether its because I'm higher and gamier than I was, or if these were less high and gamey, but it was one of those food moments when you saw what everybody else who loves grouse is talking about. Roasted pink, it was rich, strong, juicy, lush. chocolatey-marvellous meat which had length like a good wine. What was also great was that the taste changes depending which part of the bird you're eating, or whether you're sucking the bones or crunching the carcass. Although it was perfectly OK I actually found the Bread Sauce accompaniement unneccessary, but the bacon provided a nice salty crispy note. So although it is expensive, those food moments when you see the light are pretty rare for me these days, so it was definitely worth it. I'm not sure where you could get Roast Grouse much cheaper in a restaurant anyway. If anyone knows please post.

New Tayyab only serves Batera (quails) as a special dish on Tuesdays. They have a special dish every night and they can't interchange them. Can't remember what it is on Saturdays.

Well there we do agree.Wine prices in restaurants in Spain are still half what they are generally in the UK. I don't know about this particular restaurant but at the Michelin one stars in Asturias coming from London all the prices seemed like bargains. In fact the price of all booze in Spain is cheap compared to the UK A friend of a friend who runs a restaurant in St Marti near Villafranca in Penedes and is also an avid wine collector told us when we were there two years ago that if he tried to charge anything like the wine prices that are charged in British restaurants not only would no-one order the wines, they would actively boycott his restaurant.

The seven course tasting menu at Gordon Ramsey at Royal Hospital Rd in London is £80, including VAT. Cheaper if not dirtier

Yup, you and Mr Peng should get on just fine Peter. I don't know about famous people needing "protecting" but I'm always remended of the time John Lennon, when he wasn't seeing things straight, was supposed to have walked into a New York restaurant with a Kotex on his head Waitress: Would you mind removing that Kotex from your head, sir Lennon: How dare you! Don't you know who I am? Waitess: Of course I do sir. You're some asshole with a Kotex on his head. I hope she got a pay rise but she was probably fired.

Speaking for myself I was not angry. But both Mogsob and John suggested that if you don't like Hunan the fault may lie with you. I fail to see why that should be the case in Hunan if it is not in any other restaurant. As for the Ivy, I've never been there but my impression is not so much that regulars get better treatment, but that famous people do. As a general principle I dislike favourable treatment based on who you are. Your money's the same colour isn't it? But at least The Ivy appears to make no secret of the fact that it wants to attract celebrities and I suppose people go there to see and be seen so at least its upfront about it.

Very acceptable ribs at Sticky Fingers on the Main St. The beer at the big downtown brewhouse was delicious and the food looked good, although I didn't have any.

No-one called anybody a "fool". Some of us have experienced Hunan as a con. For those who did not, fair enough. But my treatment there was shoddy and the food I received was poor. That had nothing to do with my ego or giving out bad vibes or anything else to do with me. I've already acknowledged that I'm in a minority in disliking this restaurant but I'm clearly not alone, so maybe there's some validity to what we're saying rather than the problem lying with us.

Don't talk claptrap John. That's the second time you've implied that if you don't like this restaurant than it must be your fault. Do you feel that way about restaurants you don't like? I am not interested in Mr Peng's responses to people. I know damn well when I've been badly treated and when I have been conned. My request to move tables was polite and perfectly reasonable. The food I was served up was second rate, overpriced, gracelessly served, bulk cooked and in total contrast to what the adjacent table was receiving. It is not incumbent on the diner to get into the good books of the restaurant owner in order to receive adequate and EQUAL food and service. If Mr Peng took it into his head to dislike me so much he could have asked me to leave instead of charging me top money for discriminatory service and take away standard food. All you're doing is trying to defend the indefensible.

I made it quite clear that El Corral Del Indianu was unlike any other restaurant we encountered in terms of portion size. And yes in that sense alone it was an amazing contrast to Casa Gerardo. Why do you see that in terms of negative criticism? It was this very contrast that made the restaurants so interesting in their different ways. I was fascinated by both meals. Maybe if one ordered from the carte at ECDI one would get more substantial portions. But the fact is this meal did not reflect that. And because the restaurant was virtually empty I couldn't get a glimpse of what others were ordering. That's why I would have liked to have talked to the chef (assuming we could have communicated). I had a lot of questions I would have liked to have asked him, but as I say he never emerged from the kitchen (assuming he was in there).

My sentiments exactly.

Definitely agree there. Didn't see a Macdonald's or any of the big fast food chains anywhere in the Asturias. They maybe there around Gijon or Oviedo but I never saw them. Also very few big supermarkets. And ham was one product where the quality was absolutely outstanding. In fact I thought that and the other pork products were every bit as good as in France, if not better.

This Michelin starred restaurant on the main street of a non-descript town (Arriondas) which acts as a gateway to the Picos de Europa was a total contrast to every other restaurant we ate at in the Asturias. It was only here that you could see the influence of French nouvelle cuisine and presumably that also of Ferran Adria-a 50 Euro tasting menu of ten highly wrought miniscule portions all trying to convey the essence of the ingredients via a tiny mouthful. Its a very pleasant restaurant, quite a formal atmosphere with a burnished wooden floor, one wall a beautifully deep turquoise with modern art, and a garden area for outside eating. A young Venuzuelan chap spoke a little English and French and along with my menuspeak Spanish we were able to communicate adequately enough for the purpose. However, the English menu again bore no relation to the Spanish one. Even the prices were completely different Luckily we realised in time to discard it as useless. However after a while I began to wonder about the mind of the chef-one J.A. Campoviejo. I mean I don't want huge portions in a tasting menu but here it would have been impossible to put less food on the plate if you tried.For example "Marinated Sardine with a Tomato and Orange Soup and Apple ice Cream" presented with HALF a Sardine I mean what sort of person serves up half a sardine? Similarly "Tuna in a Cider Cream Sauce with Crispy Pork" had six tiny breadcrumb size lardons counted out on each plate. I mean you couldn't make lardons smaller. And then to count out exactly six? The whole meal was like this. Tiny little jewels on a plate. It looked exquisite, but it looked like doll's food. There were lots of ice creams and gelees-oyster ice cream, onoin ice cream, Asturian cheese ice cream, apple ice cream, gellees of lettuce, tomato, pimiento, all in teaspoon sized amounts. There wasn't much chewing going on. You could have eaten this meal with no teeth. Some of the tastes were amazingly intense. The onion ice cream sang of roasted onion. The chorizo oil in the Pote Asturiano (the only vaguely regional dish but totally deconstructed) was all the chorizo flavour you could want. The green vegatable gellee was incredible-an aspic distillation of fresh green vegetable. The chocolate mousse with-yes you guessed it-orange ice cream, was a peerless version. This chef has got to be ploughing a lonely furrow. The restaurant was three quarters empty on a Saturday night. In a scrubby provincial town in the middle of this rural mountainous region where most restaurants serve up hearty portions of hearty food, who wants to eat this stuff? I wouldn't have minded a chat with the chef but s/he never emerged. An interesting restaurant, but definitely a fish out of water and into ice cream.

I agree that they don't "owe" anybody anything. I saw it as more as a reflection on their education system. Why aren't they being taught some basic English? It has got to be to the advantage of people in today's world to have at least a smattering of another languge. What are they being taught at school as another language? Ancient Asturian? Nearly all the French who have been to school in the last forty years have some basic knowledge of English. Its just that they've been too grumpy about the hegemony of English as the world's lingua franca to reveal it, although I sense that's changing now. And if the Asturian youngsters DO have some English (which I suspect they do) but lack the confidence to allow it to be known, then that is a matter of management and staff training of IMPARTING that confidence to your staff, of encouraging them and giving them incentives to develop. Anyway. We chose our fifteen restaurants based on recommendations. Most were based on basic regional ingredients and actually were very similar in what they had to offer-good fish and seafood, roasted and grilled meats-mostly veal and pork- fabadas and potes, cheese and cider. I have to say it struck me once again how conservative and relentlessly monocultural the regional Spanish are in their eating, in restaurants at least. They eat the same thing from the same narrow range of options again and again. I'm not saying its not good and sometimes excellent. But it's very samey. Even at Casa Gerardo, with lots more creative dishes on offer, loads of them came in to eat nothing but Fabada. I mean you can get Fabada in every single restaurant in the region bar none . I know it was good Fabada because I had some myself, but when you go to a restaurant with a Michelin star and awards for gastronomy and creative cuisine covering the walls why not try something other than Fabada for once? It has to be said that for everyday eating the Spanish are still way behind the French in every way. Ordinary restaurants and food shops-charcuteries, supermarkets etc.do not compare for variety, quality, presentation, service etc. I just didn't feel the same passion for quality that you get in France. I know you have those very high end restaurants in Catalonia and San Sebastian etc and Barcelona is an exceptional foodie town, but there seems much more of a disconnect between high level and everyday eating than you get in France, as if in Spain the two might as well be in different countries.

Bux, no I can manage in basic Spanish menuspeak quite well but when you go to Michelin restaurant, where the chef is more likely to be using non-standard ingredients, and, more importantly, non standard techniques and preparations, then standard menuspeak is less helpful and his individual creations may need some explaining. There was no-one there who had a clue. And I find that surprising. And I say its poor service. I mean haven't all these young boy and girl servers being studying any English at school? Its the world's lingua franca whether we like it or not. They didn't know the words like egg, beef , pork, tuna, let alone be able to inform me how they may be prepared. Casa Gerardo and El Corral Del Indianu (the third Michelin star we visited) had someone who could make themselves understood (although the latter also had a completely irrelevant and outdated translation. Wierd And yes. If I ran a Michelin restaurant and I knew i was going to get a substantial number of customers where Japanese was going to be a language they could communicate in then I would have one or two people on my staff trained up in some basic Japanese restaurant speak. Pedro, I'll report on some other restaurants soon.