PatrickT

Assume this is the recipe?

Looks good! Are you happy with it?

Not doing so with that perfect shape and pockety crumb would be a travesty indeed. 🤣 Thanks for sharing this!

Those are little art works. 😍 Beautiful!

@JoNorvelleWalker Thanks - I was certain I remembered something similar in one of the sources I read quite a while back, too. I’ll try to track that down. The situation occurred using the dough roller on the Ank and kneading the dough fairly vigorously (about the 5:00 position on the right dial) for maybe 15-20 minutes in all. Ironically, I stumbled across a YouTube video this afternoon that shows what my dough looked like at the point I thought I had ruined it. Take a look at the consistency of the dough at the 6:50 minute mark in the video below. That’s exactly the way mine was (after an earlier point in the kneading process of being MUCH firmer and ball shaped, but failing the windowpane test - hence my thought that I had simply gone too far). This is actually a really fascinating video that seems to debunk the “over-kneading” concept - at least for a high hydration dough. Either way, I should have hung in there a while longer to see what would develop after allowing the dough to rest or giving it an overnight fermentation, as @Ann_T suggested. Good learning opportunity for me! Thanks again, everyone, for your comments and discussion. Much appreciated. 🙏

Great resources @Ann_T and @lemniscate - thank you for that. I must have had this exactly backwards in my mind. The reason I thought I had overworked it was that it seemed to pass a state of “pretty well formed” before it seemed to come undone and lose its structure. I’ll keep a better eye on this process going forward and will stop more frequently to test the elasticity and extensibility when using my mixer for kneading. Thanks again for your responses!

Well - it was bound to happen sometime for this novice bread baker: I broke my first dough today by over-kneading it in my Ankarsrum mixer. Up to this point, if anything, I’ve erred on under-developing the gluten on some of my doughs, so this turn of events really took me by surprise. It was definitely educational to see what over-worked dough actually looks and feels like. Quite the sticky, stringy mess! On the one hand, I’m glad it happened. I’ll certainly be much more cautious and aware of what to watch for in the future. On the other hand, I really wish it hadn’t happened. The dough I was kneading included an 8-day starter/sponge… which actually required TWO attempts for me to successfully make it! Ugh. Third time’s the charm?? 🤣

SO awesome @Ann_T - thank you! 😃🙏 Love the pre-shape, final shape and scoring pics too. Definitely going to try this next time I make your recipe. I appreciate all the extra effort!

Awesome! Let me know if you have any questions about it. Having just finished this loaf, I think you could significantly enhance the flavor using a small amount of yeast and a more extended proof, a la @Ann_T’s baguette dough. That said, it’s hard to knock a nice loaf you can turn out in just a few hours. 😃

Over the weekend, we had dinner with my wife's former boss, Charlie, who is from Sicily. He was kind enough to share his family's recipe for Italian Country Bread, which is the simple and delicious yeasted bread he grew up on. I had a chance to bake it today and it turned out beautifully. It's a high hydration dough that required vigorous kneading, as well as 3 sets of stretches and folds over its 3-hour bulk fermentation. I did the final proof in a round cloche in the fridge for an hour and 15 minutes, scored it, then cold baked it covered in a 450 degree oven for 55 minutes. Ingredients appear below for anyone who would like to try it. I also included some pics of the initial dough at the beginning of bulk, a couple of pics after the 3 hour fermentation (!), the final loaf out of the oven, and the crumb. This is a pillowy, delicious, same day bread that I will definitely make again.

Appreciate the pics! Would love to see a pic of how much they rise in those containers over the time they’re in the fridge.

Mmmm… I could eat that all day. 🤣 And is Matt willing to share his process for making pizzas using your dough? Or perhaps he’s already done so elsewhere on eG? TIA!

@Ann_T And how much salt are you using again - 3%?

Amazing! 👍

Thank you! Definitely going to give this a try - and take another whack at scoring baguettes. 🤣 Really love the system you’ve landed on here. Sounds wonderfully simple and you always have something to bake when you want it. Genius! 😃

@Ann_T Just want to verify: After your last set of stretch and folds, you refrigerated your dough for basically 72 hrs, allowed it to rest on the counter for an additional 8 before preshaping, shaping, final proofing and baking. Do I have that right? Would love to try this next time I make your recipe and see what happens. Your results are obviously undeniable! 😃

King Arthur's Simple Rustic Loaf. I used 50g of sourdough starter in place of the yeast and a bottle of bagel topping for the mixed seeds. Delicious!

Since I happen to be reading the Bernard Clayton book I mentioned above - and since he was such a big advocate of freezing bread - I thought I'd share what he has to say on the subject of bread storage. "Bread to be eaten within the next day or two should be kept in a paper bag, bread. box, or bread drawer. Don't wrap it in plastic unless you want an especially soft crust. If the bread is to be used for toast, it doesn't matter. The toaster will crisp the slice. Bread will not go stale as quickly at room temperature as it will in the refrigerator. Bread will freshen simply by heating it unwrapped in a 350 degree oven for 15 minutes. "If you are concerned that a whole loaf will stale before it can be eaten, freeze part of it to serve fresh at a later date. Frozen bread keeps and freshens so well that I freeze all bread to be held, even though I may plan to use it within the next few days. To freeze, allow the loaf to cool before placing it in two medium or heavy plastic bags, one inside the other. Close securely and freeze. After taking the bread out of the freezer, allow it to thaw inside the unopened bags. Frost particles and ice crystals inside the bag represent moisture from the bread and should be allowed to absorb back. Keep the bread in the plastic bag until the crystals have disappeared, then remove the bread from the bag, place on a baking sheet, and put it in a 350 degree oven for 15 minutes."

I've been trying some bakes from Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads - and my latest was his California Sourdough Whole Wheat Bread. Of this recipe, Clayton says: "When questioned about my very favorite bread from among the several thousand that I have baked, I hedge. It's like being asked which child you favor. However, if pressed to give two favorites, this bread is one of them. And for good reason. This loaf led me into writing about home baking. Many years ago while rafting down the Colorado River, through the Grand Canyon, I told the passengers in my boat about a wonderful bread I had developed. One of the passengers was an editor for Sunset , a magazine at home in the Bay Area, where devotees of sourdough French bread are legion (and vocal). The editor bought the recipe and I became a professional." The recipe is indeed delicious (@Dave R - I think you'd like this one), with a dense, tight crumb and a wonderfully dark crust. The only leavening comes from a 3-day whole wheat sponge that's simply stirred down daily. It gives the bread a very unique tang and flavor that is quite different from my customary sourdough starter. When it came to scoring to loaves, Clayton remarked: "With a sharp razor, slash each loaf down the center, then make several small diagonal cuts, as branches from a limb." I appear to have created something akin to a salamander and a roadside noxious weed. 🤣 If any of you have the book, this is a very tasty loaf you might enjoy. My recipe conversions from Clayton's original appear below, along with a few pics of my loaves.

Lovely - thank you! 😃

@lemniscate Recipe, perhaps? 😍🙏

@Ann_T Once again used your baguette dough recipe to make a 250g mini loaf today to enjoy with our dinner. To mix things up this time, I added 1/4 tsp each of basil, thyme and dried minced garlic. Absolutely delicious and so easy! Very versatile, as you’ve often said. 😃

Baked 4 loaves for a visit to see our daughter - 2 for her by request (cranberry walnut sourdough; cheddar rosemary sourdough with roasted garlic), 1 for us (honey lemon whole wheat bread, from Clayton's book) and a second loaf of the honey lemon whole wheat to share with our neighbor who volunteered to water our flowers in our absence. Our daughter loved her loaves. Our neighbor ate half of theirs before we even left. 😂 We used our loaf to make chicken salad sandwiches for our picnic lunches. Delightful flavor! Will definitely bake that one again.

Thanks @Ann_T! Your loaves, as always, are perfection. 😃

Pumpkin cinnamon sourdough with raisins, courtesy of Maurizio at The Perfect Loaf. I substituted pumpkin pie spice for the cinnamon, as well as honey for the sugar in the dough. The aroma of this loaf baking was only surpassed by its subtle and lovely flavors. Very moist and tender crumb. This one is going to become a family favorite for sure!