Fat Guy

I guess, looking at these first few comments, there are a lot of consumer products that are combinations of other products and the selling proposition is that if you buy this thing at more than the cost of the components you don't have to mix the two other things. I suppose in some cases, where the mixing is time-consuming or requires a lot of components, that can make sense. I wonder what percentage of people using, for example, self-rising flour realize that it's flour + baking powder + salt and are making an informed choice about saving the time and inconvenience of mixing and what percentage just use (and pay) for it without knowing.

I'll start: Those little plastic packets you put in the dishwasher instead of liquid or powder detergent. Self-rising flour.

This all reminds me that, in 2009, Benjamin Carlson writing in the Atlantic complained that blogging has become too professional: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/09/the-rise-of-the-professional-blogger/7696/

Bloggers are subject to the same laws as all journalists, with respect to issues like defamation, invasion of privacy, copyright, trademark and patent-law violations. One of the things I tell my students is that "Once you publish your work instantly to the entire world, you're a journalist whether you think you are or not." The blogger who says, "Oh, I'm not a journalist," is nonetheless on the hook for damages if he or she commits, for example, a serious act of defamation. Outside of the law, there are also plenty of codes of conduct for bloggers. We have one here, as do several online communities and organizations. Whether a given blogger follows one of these codes is up to the blogger. In that regard it's more like farming than medicine: anyone is automatically licensed to do it, and some do it better than others. Not that there's a license for journalists. I also think many of the professional organizations for journalists have bloggers as members. The profession, after all, is not "blogging." It's something like "sports writing," which includes those who write about sports in various media. It may also interest some to see just how many conferences there are about blogging and social media. This is a good list: http://www.blogconferenceguide.com/

Saw a big mountain of organic brown rice at Costco today.

Seth, I think at this point blogs are very much an established medium. If you talk to people at the traditional print publishers (whether publishers of newspapers, magazines, or books), you will find them devoting considerable effort and thought to blogs and social media. At the New York Times, for example, most every major writer for the paper is now a blogger for the Times online as well. Just one example that might shed some light: back in the day, there was a weekly "Diner's Journal" piece in the New York Times print edition. Today, "Diner's Journal" is a blog on the Times website. I should add that, in many blogging situations, you have layers of editorial oversight just as you would in print. Not that I think this counts for anything in terms of defining journalism. Sometimes, editorial layers can help quality and offer the benefit of multi-point input. Other times, editorial layers exert conservative (not in the political sense) forces. A slightly different point: while some may wax nostalgic about the good old days of Cronkite and the like, there are certainly some well-informed people who would argue that in the days of centralized, almost-monopoly media outlets you had too many gentlemen's agreements keeping information out of the public eye. Compare the news reporting on Clinton's philandering to the lack of reporting about JFK's. Remember that Matt Drudge, a blogger, was the major force behind the Clinton story going viral. Is food writing journalism? I think a lot of it is. Service-oriented recipe articles may not be if you define journalism in the hard-news sense, but certainly there is more and more food-media coverage of what would traditionally be considered news. There are many, many blogs in this area. It might be a worthwhile exercise to look at a few blogs and think about whether they represent journalism. Mark Bittman on Food, at NYTimes.com? Marion Nestle's Food Politics blog? The Huffington Post's food blog?

Possibly both. I think it's helpful to ask why we need to define journalism in the first place. The most important reason, I think, is for the purpose of shield laws, e.g., laws that protect journalists' sources. It may be that, for such a law to protect you, you need to be a journalist in the act of writing a piece of journalism.

One chapter of one of my books was once sent to the publisher's legal department for review, though it came back without comment. Ironically, I think it is the least reputable tabloid publishers that have the largest legal departments. In any event, I think the salary/compensation/revenue distinction does not get to questions of the definition of journalism or journalist. Rather, that issue seems more relevant to determining whether someone is a professional or amateur journalist -- though it is an imperfect test even for that. In my opinion what blogging has done, among other things, is create a class of amateur journalists that is many millions strong. I don't personally think laws protecting journalists should apply to professionals only. Amateur journalists have an important role to play, we can cite example upon example where amateur journalists have broken important stories,and what we're seeing more and more, as the large publishing entities hire from the ranks of bloggers, is that amateur online journalism is a gateway to professional journalism. I think it would be more sensible for laws to look to conduct to distinguish journalists from non-journalists.

I guess the reason I think the financial criterion is so weak is that I, like many people, have done both free and paid writing and do not consider my paid work to be any more legitimate, or any more "journalistic," than my free work. Indeed, it is typical for freelancers to write for a range of outlets at different pay scales knowing that the higher-paying ones will subsidize the lower-paying and free work, which may in turn be of higher quality.

I'd love to read that article but the page asks for money to do so, and I haven't found a free archive of Dickinson Law Review articles anywhere.

No matter how trivial the example, it can't compete with the stuff I'm seeing on the local television news here in North Carolina. I think it might be helpful to try to define the term "journalism," though the US Constitution speaks in terms of "press" and the court decision mentioned above speaks of "media." Still, it might be helpful.

Jaymes: Why?

Right, what he said.

And there is no journalism equivalent of legal or medical licensing.

http://www.gq.com/food-travel/alan-richman/201204/best-restaurants-nyc-2012 The Ten Best Restaurants in New York, according to Richman, are: 1 The Chef’s Table at Brooklyn Fare 2 Le Bernardin 3 Corton 4 Eleven Madison Park 5 Del Posto 6 Jean Georges 7 Restaurant Daniel 8 The Salon at Per Se 9 Bouley 10 15 East Elaboration after the link. Any thoughts?

I'm not even sure it's a sensible question -- surely some are, and some aren't -- but there has been a lot of talk surrounding a December court decision where a particular blogger was found not to be a journalist. The New York Times report appears here: "Although the defendant is a self-proclaimed “investigative blogger” and defines herself as “media,” the record fails to show that she is affiliated with any newspaper, magazine, periodical, book, pamphlet, news service, wire service, news or feature syndicate, broadcast station or network, or cable television system. Thus, she is not entitled to the protections of the law" http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/in-2-5-million-judgment-court-finds-blogger-is-not-a-journalist/ An also a later clarification: http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/judge-clarifies-that-bloggers-can-be-journalists-just-not-one-in-particular/ As we concern ourselves with food journalism here, there may be some additional questions, such as what kinds of food writing qualify as journalism anyway.

I can't even keep track of all the twists and turns in the organic farmed fish debate.

I need to revise my assessment of the Trader Joe's dishwasher detergent powder. Only after using Cascade gel for a while did I realize how inferior the TJ's powder was, in terms of removing both tough food stains and persistent odors. I am still searching for an eco-friendly dishwasher detergent that works well.

Do you all test your yeast before using it in a recipe? It seems that every recipe in the universe recommends first putting your yeast in warm water and waiting for it to bubble to ensure its vitality. I have never done this. I just add the powdered yeast to the bowl with everything else. Yesterday I had a little scare because the dough wasn't rising, but when I moved it to a warmer spot it did its thing just fine. The incident gave me pause, but not enough to add this extra step to my baking routine.

Mitch, I would definitely encourage you to give Pomi another try. I've made several converts. It just takes some time to adapt to the reduced salt content and different behavior of the produce. I'll also note that I believe Muir Glen uses BPA-free packaging for its canned tomatoes. I'm eager to read some independent research on BPA in tomato packaging and whether it matters, and similar information on potatoes and apples.

I should add, one other virtuous thing I do is buy Murray's chicken exclusively. It is Certified Humane, though not organic. I also eat a lot of food where I'm not aware of the provenance, especially at restaurants but also if I get something like sopressata on Arthur Avenue I haven't got a clue where the ingredients came from and I probably don't want to know.

So we now have two lists. I think these form a useful basis for discussion, even if there are big holes. The list of 8 things the iVillage people say you should buy organic: 1 beef 2 eggs 3 rice 4 wheat 5 ketchup 6 peanut butter 7 apples 8 strawberries The list of 7 things the FOX people say you should avoid: 1 Canned Tomatoes 2 Corn-Fed Beef 3 Microwave Popcorn 4 Nonorganic Potatoes 5 Farmed Salmon 6 Milk Produced With Artificial Hormones 7 Conventional Apples I thought it might be interesting to get some notes from this group, which I think is full of educated people struggling to make balanced food choices. Here's where I fall on some of these: beef - I have been buying mostly a brand of beef called OBE, primarily because I like it better than the standard beef next to it on the rack and it is not that much more expensive. That being said, if I buy beef once every month, it's a lot. My family does most of its meat eating out, and some places have better sources than others. That being said, OBE beef is from Australia, which raises questions of efficiency. I believe the beef is grass fed, which to me is nice when you're talking brisket and other braising cuts or grinding cuts, but when it comes to steak I think corn-fed conventional just tastes better. Not that I cook much steak at home anyway. I am also continually moving more in the direction of vegetarianism, because it's very hard for me to see the argument for 21st Century adult humans to eat animals, but I don't see a full transition any time soon in my future. Still, I just don't eat much meat anymore. eggs - I was buying organic for a while, then I stopped. I've done a bunch of taste tests including with organic, conventional, and eggs from local farms. I think the conventional supermarket eggs I get are better-tasting than the organic (which cost double) primarily because they're invariably fresher due to high turnover and, ironically, shorter distance of transport. The eggs from farms don't really taste better to me and are as or more expensive than the organic, harder to get, and less predictable when used in baking and such. Farm market eggs tend to be more orange in color and have more yolk to white ratio, but do not to me taste different. The one thing I've really noticed tastewise is that the eggs I get at supermarkets in the US Southeast are better than in the Northeast. rice - I like a brand called Lundberg, which is "Eco-Farmed," in other words not organic but using enlightened practices. I buy it because of the brands where I shop it tastes the best. I pretty much only cook brown rice. I'm happy to eat whatever crap white rice they serve me at Asian restaurants, though. wheat - I just bought Pillsbury flour on sale; I never bother choosing better flour, though I have been incorporating a percentage of Trader Joe's "White Whole Wheat" flour into my pizza and focaccia dough and my wife, Ellen, has been doing the same in baking. ketchup - the organic thing doesn't matter to me, however we did switch from Heinz to Hunt's a while back, in part because we like the taste a little better and in part because Hunt's is made without HFCS -- for whatever that's worth (as a parent I reserve the right to do stupid, unscientific things that make me feel I'm feeding my child better). peanut butter - this imperative has not registered. Our favorite peanut butter, by the way, is Trader Joe's Valencia peanut butter with roasted flax seeds. Amazing product. apples - I pretty much only buy local Northeast apples, and I'm not sure any are grown organically. I've never looked into it and don't really care. strawberries - I buy them for a dollar a box when they're on sale at the green cart on the corner of 68th and Columbus. They are definitely not organic. Canned Tomatoes - I almost exclusively use Pomi crushed tomatoes in the aseptic packaging, not canned, when I use packaged tomatoes. This product has the freshest taste to me. Some people don't like the Pomi tomatoes, I think because of the absence of salt. You have to add a bunch more salt than with canned in order to complete a recipe. Corn-Fed Beef - Discussed above. Microwave Popcorn - I never buy it. I pop popcorn in a pot. Nonorganic Potatoes - We eat a lot of them, both white and sweet varieties. Farmed Salmon - I love the farmed Atlantic salmon from Costco and would eat more of it if I went to Costco more often. Milk Produced With Artificial Hormones - A lot of the brands in this region are made without. I mostly get Farmland at my local store, which says no antibiotics and no hormones. It is not organic and I don't care. I'm not sure I care about the antibiotics or hormones either. Conventional Apples - As mentioned above, I think all the apples I get are conventional, though local. How about you?

Organic rice I see pretty widely in US upper-end supermarkets. For example there's a brand, Lundberg, that does some certified organic rice and some "Eco Farmed," which is their alternative system. In terms of wheat, I see plenty of organic wheat products, like bread. Actual organic wheat is a little less common, but there are brands of it like Bob's Red Mill that I've seen around at a few stores.

As I understand it, organic does not equal pesticide-free. It just equals synthetic-pesticide-free. Organic farmers are allowed to use organic pesticides, which I'm not necessarily convinced are safer than the synthetic ones (which I'm not convinced are problematic in the first place). But more importantly it seems that the organic label has been coopted by big agriculture anyway, and that at this point the best bet for natural stuff is just to buy from reputable, local farmers -- which in turn probably uses an inordinate amount of energy. It's complicated.

I've seen various lists of this sort, arguing that it's more important to eat the organic versions of some foods than others on the theory that some fruits absorb more pesticides than others etc. I remain unconvinced that it's important to eat organic anything, but thought this piece on iVillage was interesting enough to discuss. It lists "8 Foods You Must Eat Organic" and argues for why. They are beef, eggs, rice, wheat, ketchup, peanut butter, apples, and strawberries.