Levain - huh?

[gfron1]

This is one of those moments that I highlight my inexperience. I just made a brioche using the levain method. I'm not even sure if I'm using the term correctly. It was in Amernick's book. The idea is to take a yeast starter and drop it in warm water, let it sit and it will float and lighten, then add the glop to the dough. I have never made a brioche using that technique, but that was the best, lightest, flakiest brioche I've ever had. The baked dough pulled apart almost like a croissant .

Anyone want to tell me more about what I just did and what impact it had on my brioche? What's the CW on why you use a levain?

[tino27]

Quick question for you ... when did you add the butter to the dough? At the beginning when you were mixing the ingredients together? Or at the end, after the dough has had a chance to develop gluten?

[gfron1]

A typical recipe for me is:

1. make dough (flour, sugar, yeast, etc)

2. incorporate butter

3. chill overnight

This recipe:

1. make dough (flour, sugar milk, NO yeast) 30 min of mixing

2. make starter (flour, yeast, milk, sugar)

3. Levain technique described above 20 min of "soaking"

4. Strain levain mixture and incorporate into dough pinch by pinch

5. incorporate butter T by T

6. beat until pretty

7. chill overnight

[sanrensho]

Are we talking about a sourdough (wild yeast) starter? I thought "levain" traditionally refers to the use of a sourdough starter.

[tino27]

A baking instructor had us make the exact same brioche recipe, only adding the butter at different points. One way was to add it at the beginning, during mixing. This resulted in kind of a "cakey" crumb, presumably because the gluten strands were coated in fat and thus not allowed to develop into long chains. The other way was to add the butter at the end of the kneading process. This resulted in a more "layered" result, like a good croissant.

I also do the starter and the chilling overnight.

[tino27]

Are we talking about a sourdough (wild yeast) starter? I thought "levain" traditionally refers to the use of a sourdough starter.

←

I think you are right about that.

[rickster]

I thought levains or bigas were to aid in flavor development and while most levains use sourdough, I've seen recipes that try to achieve the same result with yeast. The odd thing is that all the ones I've seen use an extended fermentation, like overnight in a refrigerator to develop flavor, not 20 minutes. So this does not seem like a traditional levain, in fomulation or use.

[gfron1]

Interesting. This was yeast out of the jar. Not wild. It definitely gave me the flaky croissant texture.

[slkinsey]

I've never heard this usage of "levain" before -- and I'm not quite sure what you're describing.

You say you took a "yeast starter" and dropped it in warm water. What is your meaning of "yeast starter"? Is this (1) some kind of sourdough starter (aka natural leaven inoculum); (2) a pre-fermented batter of flour, water and commercial yeast; (3) a pre-fermented hunk of dough comprised of flour, water and commercial yeast; or (4) just some dry or fresh yeast that you are dumping into the warm water?

Anyway, this sounds a lot more like the poolish method than the levain method. "Levain" usually describes a natural leaven of a dough consistency that is built up over several stages before being used as the leavening agent for a larger amount of dough. I have heard of putting a small piece of the earliest levain stage into water in order to gauge when it is fully mature and ready for the next stage (when it floats to the top of the water), but nothing like what you describe.

[sanrensho]

When I read "brioche using a levain method," my first thought was a sourdough brioche.

Edited February 13, 2008 by sanrensho (log)

[gfron1]

Okay, let me back up. I made a lump of dough that included active yeast. It was the size of a baseball. I dropped it in a bowl of warm water (the instructions said do not exceed 100F). It sunk like a rock as per the instructions. After about 5 minutes it rose - it rose indeed! After about 10 more minutes it started to become light and porous. By the 20 minutes it was very light, but still handle-able. I then picked it up in my and, drained the water, and pinched it off into the other dough that was in my mixer.

I followed the recipe exactly. So, now I'm wondering if Amernick is using the term Levain accurately.

[slkinsey]

I would say that Amernick is not using the term levain in any way I've ever seen it used. . .

As far as I can tell, the warm water simply acted as a warm-temperature incubator to accelerate the activity of the yeast. I'd imagine you would get better results by pre-fermenting the baseball-shaped piece of dough at room temperature for around 12 hours, or even retarding it in the refrigerator overnight.

[Serj]

I agree with the idea that the texture of the brioche probably had more to do with the way the butter was incorporated than with the starter (=levain). Laminated croissant dough consists of layers of gluten and butter repeated. Same as puff pastry. But you can make Quick Puff Pastry, where are no laminated layers, just a minimally mixed combination of dough & butter. My guess is something similar happened with the brioche.

My impression is that the starter used to give the fermentation of the dough a jump start. The faster the fermentation happens, the less of a sour taste there will be.

In terms of the underwater aspect... since dough development is anaerobic, it will expand in the air or under water. One problem a lot of people have is not letting starters ferment enough to obtain maximum rising power. If you get the temperature of the water right, by letting the dough proof under water, you can tell when it is ready by when it rises to the top. That's my guess. I remember reading something about it once - along the lines of the water should be the temperature of a river in Russia in the summer. In the Whitley book maybe??

Anyways, just my thoughts.

edited to add:

Incidentally, one time I experimented with letting dough rise (from frozen) in Russian-summer-river-temperature water versus in a proofer (it happened to be brioche dough - all i had on hand). The dough in the water exploded in just a few minutes, whereas the dough in the proofer took much much much longer (i don't remember how long now).

Edited February 14, 2008 by Serj (log)

[djyee100]

This recipe:

1. make dough (flour, sugar milk, NO yeast) 30 min of mixing

2. make starter (flour, yeast, milk, sugar)

3. Levain technique described above 20 min of "soaking"

4. Strain levain mixture and incorporate into dough pinch by pinch

5. incorporate butter T by T

6. beat until pretty

7. chill overnight

←

I'm guessing that the key step was #1: beating the flour with sugar and milk for 30 mins. That must have developed the gluten. Then late in the game, step #5, you beat in the butter. To my mind, that accounts for the croissant-like texture.

I've made brioche-like breads with yeast starters (starters made of flour, water, yeast, and sugar; kept overnight in the fridge). As far as I can tell, the starter affects the flavor, not the texture. I never got a croissant-like texture in my breads, and the only difference between my method and yours is your 30 minutes of beating at the beginning.

Anyway, this recipe sounds fantastic and I will have to check it out.

P.S. I could not resist trying a Google search to find out the temperature of a Russian river in the summer. No definitive answer, but research indicates a large range of temperatures since some Russian rivers are mostly Arctic runoff and are very cold even in summer. Perhaps the recipe writer should specify which river or which region of the country he is talking about? ( )

Edited February 14, 2008 by djyee100 (log)

[alanamoana]

I think Amernick could have more accurately described her method as a 'sponge starter' method, rather than levain. Even with a sponge, overnight is pretty standard and the whole process is meant to develop flavor as much as texture.

[devlin]

A levain is simply one French version of a naturally leavened bread. The temperature of the water isn't its chief characteristic, it's the natural leavening and the relative water content (high). Typically, though, when you're working with a natural leaven (sourdough culture), you let it break up and distribute in water before you add the flour, which is why the instruction would have you drop a ball of it into water (warm or not), very much like the method used when dissolving commercial yeast in water.

If you're using commercial yeast, though, strictly speaking, it's not an authentic levain.

Edited February 14, 2008 by devlin (log)

[McDuff]

I think this is a very old fashioned way of making sure the yeast works. I made a dough once with this technique, much against my Interior Baker's advice, and he was right.