susanna foo radnor

[the rod]

I walked in the other day to check out the menu. It's pretty nice in there. The prices looked reasonable and the food i saw go by looked pretty good. Chef Foo was there doing her thing. Has any one eaten there yet?

[jaredrakes]

I walked in the other day to check out the menu.  It's pretty nice in there.  The prices looked reasonable  and the food i saw go by looked pretty good.  Chef Foo was there doing her thing.  Has any one eaten there yet?

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Took the wife to Susanna Foo's Gourmet Kitchen for her birthday last week. It was a very slow night, before they publicly announced their opening (we've been keeping an eye on it for a while as it's in our 'hood).

Service was great--friendly, knowledgeable about the food, wine, and cocktails. Everyone on hosting and waitstaff had a smile and a hello.

Cocktails were generous pours--I had a martini and she had a (I know, I know) cosmopolitan. The cosmo seemed to be made from real ingredients rather than a mix or whatever that dreck is that comes out from the "red" button on the bar soda gun. Which was a welcome change.

Vegetable hot and sour soup was as much about veggies as about hot or sour. I'dve liked more kick, but wife thought it was just right.

Mini pork dumplings were really good, with that great fried-but-doughy dumpling texture, and a fantastically aromatic hoisin-y reduction sauce drizzled around (There could have been more sauce, but then I'd freebase the stuff if given a chance, so maybe my opinion is a bit skewed here). I had the five-spice short ribs with coconut polenta. Meat was well-flavored, beyond fork tender, and the polenta was a great pairing--more aromatic of coconut essence than thickly sweet. The meat seemed more like a crafty cut of chuck roast rather than short ribs (no rib bones, rather large pieces of meat) but I wouldn't change it.

My wife ordered the peking pork loin. This was OK, but not great. A little too sweet, not much depth. Along with our shared entrees, we ordered a (nine dollar) plate of pork fried rice. This was good, not as greasy as you'd expect from a typical takeout place, otherwise unremarkable. The entrees each came with small carb-sides, so the rice was overkill, in retrospect.

We had the apple tart and the panna cotta for desserts, sharing both. Both were absolutely wonderful, fresh, and each a bit unusual (big pieces of crystallized ginger softened in the panna cotta, gave it a bit of backround bite; the apple tart was a study in apply-ness, with layers of reduced apple compote and sliced baked apples on crispy pastry).

Our waiter selected a great white wine for us to drink with desserts (Viura Santana). Since we hadn't spared the cocktails, I said we'd just share one glass. He had them split the pour into two glasses. Nice.

Total damage with tip was about $150. We ordered too much food, and didn't spare the drinks either. Still, I was hoping this place would be more of a casual (read: inexpensive) noodle house or dumpling house as early reports described. We'll have to try some tapas or go the noodle/dumpling route next time, and see what the costs look like.

We're glad to have it in the neighborhood, and it will clearly do well on its own merits beyond the Foo name.

[Vadouvan]

$150 for chinese food seems a tad steep no ?

[the rod]

$150 for chinese food seems a tad steep no ?

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Ha! apparently I was looking at the lunch menu.

[KatieLoeb]

Wow. Really? $150 in what was supposed to be the casual "family style" dumpling/noodle house does seem a bit steep. Besides the glass of viura, how much did y'all drink and how much did it bump up the check?

[jaredrakes]

Wow.  Really?  $150 in what was supposed to be the casual "family style" dumpling/noodle house does seem a bit steep.  Besides the glass of viura, how much did y'all drink and how much did it bump up the check?

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Liquor--$44

Food--$81

plus tip = about $150.

[Capaneus]

Wow.  Really?  $150 in what was supposed to be the casual "family style" dumpling/noodle house does seem a bit steep.  Besides the glass of viura, how much did y'all drink and how much did it bump up the check?

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Liquor--$44

Food--$81

plus tip = about $150.

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Food seems not terribly out of line - about what I'd pay for three courses doubled, around town - but liquor... $15 a drink? Or did you have more than the one cocktail each and shared glass of wine?

[Vadouvan]

The problem with places like susanna foo and le colonial was that you could always go to chinatown to get much better food cheaper.

Sure it isnt "chinese food" per se but it ends up simply being dressed up to the detriment of flavor and authenticity such that the restaurant's perception of added value holds no added value for me, it's just overpriced. Much the same with restaurants in that ilk like China grill, Bhudda bar, Buddakan, Hakkasan.

[chowfun]

The problem with places like susanna foo and le colonial was that you could always go to chinatown to get much better food cheaper.

Sure it isnt "chinese food" per se but it ends up simply being dressed up to the detriment of flavor and authenticity such that the restaurant's perception of added value holds no added value for me, it's just overpriced. Much the same with restaurants in that ilk like China grill, Bhudda bar, Buddakan, Hakkasan.

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I agree. I would add Cin Cin and Yang Ming to the list of not worth the extra money (and not even as good as Chinatown).

[Holly Moore]

Is it possible for a US Chinese restaurant to merit a food check average similar to the food charges at a top French or Italian restaurant? How about a Philadelphia Chinese restaurant?

[Vadouvan]

Is it possible for a US Chinese restaurant to merit a food check average similar to the food charges at a top French or Italian restaurant?

No way.

How about a Philadelphia Chinese restaurant?

Definitely not.

[Holly Moore]

Why not? Is not Chinese, along with French and Italian, considered one of the great classic cuisines?

[LurkerMcLurkey]

For my first post, I will chime in about my experience at the Foo:

After voting this past Tuesday, a friend and I went for dinner. The waiter told us their official opening wasn't until this weekend.

The menu is set up for sharing and we started off with the dumpling sampler: pork, veggie, scallop, lamb and mushroom. The dumpling were nicely presented accompanied by soy, hot mustard and duck sauces. Its hard for me not to love a dumpling but these dumplings were exceptional. The wild mushroom and traditional pork were the standouts.

Next. we had a dissapointing chopped salad. THe arugula and tofu were fine but the miso vinagrette was overpoweringly tart to the point of making some bites inedible. For something that is essentially a house salad, I was surprised that the dressing is so bad. Hopefully this will change as the kitchen gets its feet.

For our main course, we had the classic crispy duck and weren't dissapointed. The duck came as billed, crispy and cooked to pefection. It came over a bed of mashed sweet poatoes and mixed vegetables. Maybe if the mashed potatoes werent lukewarm, we would have enjoyed them.

For this, plus two pots of green tea, the bill came to a little under $60. While I enjoyed most of what we ate, I can't see myself running back. I agree with the other posters in that the new Foo outpost is like other Main Line overpriced. gloified "Chinese" resaturants (I might even add Nectar to the list). I'd much rather have a dumpling at Lakeside or peking duck at Sang Kee, for a lot less money too.

Side note: the restaurant space overcomes its office building setting for the most part except for the three flat screen tv's that hang above the open kitchen. Who really wants to watch Jim Cramer's Mad Money while eating out? and who chose to put on CNBC? Weird, if you ask me.

[Buckethead]

Why not?  Is not Chinese, along with French and Italian, considered one of the great classic cuisines?

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No way, definitely not.

[stephenc]

Is it possible for a US Chinese restaurant to merit a food check average similar to the food charges at a top French or Italian restaurant?  How about a Philadelphia Chinese restaurant?

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No. Because traditional Chinese food is served family-style. French food is served a la carte. The most expensive Chinese meals, with luxury ingredients like abalone, sharkfin soup, Peking duck, lobster/crab etc. top out at around $70 a head, which is a bargain in comparison to the most expensive French restaurants.

[herbacidal]

Is it possible for a US Chinese restaurant to merit a food check average similar to the food charges at a top French or Italian restaurant?  How about a Philadelphia Chinese restaurant?

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No. Because traditional Chinese food is served family-style. French food is served a la carte. The most expensive Chinese meals, with luxury ingredients like abalone, sharkfin soup, Peking duck, lobster/crab etc. top out at around $70 a head, which is a bargain in comparison to the most expensive French restaurants.

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That's not true.

The family style argument does make it harder to charge the same per person average, but it can be done, and be justified.

The most expensive Chinese meals can easily double that $70 per head average, based on the ingredients, with many far above abalone and shark fin.

However, the key factor in both cases is that because of the various ways that Chinese food is presented in the US, a Chinese restaurant that charged ingredients up at that amount would not work as a successful business,

which is something I've known and tried to explain to people for a decade or so now.

Both the service level and the food ingredients don't justify that expense level.

If the service level was upgraded to a comparable quality to a 3-star French restaurant, then that $100+ would be justified.

That said, the customer base would not be willing to pay that amount, because of the ubitiquity of Chinese restaurants, from takeouts to mall joints to corner Chinese food places, brings down the value proposition perceived by the US population.

One of the things that helps keep French food where it is price-wise, is its relative scarcity.

There aren't large numbers of French immigrants (well, not the same large numbers as there are of Chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, etc.) in the US that need to make a living and support a family, and therefore decide to open a restaurant.

But ingredient-wise and culinary skill-wise and also level of floor service-wise, it is quite possible to bring out a Chinese restaurant offering a $200 pp menu.

[Sneakeater]

Not that anyone in or around Philadelphia ever wants to hear anything about anything in New York, but . . .

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...atown+brasserie

Edited November 15, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[herbacidal]

Not that anyone in or around Philadelphia ever wants to hear anything about anything in New York, but . . .

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...atown+brasserie

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Yea I know, that's one that definitely challenges the paradigm.

I've been following that somewhat when I have time.

It'll be interesting how that works out.

Are they busy enough to turn a profit regularly?

[stephenc]

Not that anyone in or around Philadelphia ever wants to hear anything about anything in New York, but . . .

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...atown+brasserie

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Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't pay 16 dollars for this, especially since I can make something similar at home in less than 10 minutes. Granted, flank or in this case flatiron, steak is pricey, but still.......

edit: wait, flatiron steak is the same as top blade? Not a very expensive cut, at least less expensive than flank.

I still think that the only Chinese place that can even think about charging more than a hundred US$ per head has to be Tokyo. My most expensive chinese meal (at a nice hotel) in Beijing cost 300 RMB per head, or between 40-50 a person. And it was extravagant.

Edited November 15, 2006 by stephenc (log)

[Sneakeater]

Not that anyone in or around Philadelphia ever wants to hear anything about anything in New York, but . . .

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...atown+brasserie

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Yea I know, that's one that definitely challenges the paradigm.

I've been following that somewhat when I have time.

It'll be interesting how that works out.

Are they busy enough to turn a profit regularly?

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Speaking for myself as one individual consumer, I don't think they DO successfully change the paradigm. I think the dim sum are amazingly good -- but I used to eat the same chef's dim sum at his last gig in Brooklyn, and while they were nowhere near as immaculately prepared, they were still great, there was a much greater variety, and they were, like, half the price. As for the main dishes, I think they're refined without tasting materially better than similar dishes at "normal" (and much cheaper) Chinese restaurants. So I now go to Chinatown Brasserie for the dim sum on occassion, but never, anymore, for the main menu.

As for how it's doing -- i.e., whether it changed the paradigm in reality, as opposed to my own personal response -- it was really crowded when it first opened. It seems to me, anecdotally, to be less crowded now. But, frankly, I honestly have no idea how it's doing these days.

(I should finally add that I linked that thread, not to demonstrate that the points you made above in this thread had been rebutted by this New York restaurant, but rather to show that the same points had been raised in that thread in the context of this other restaurant.)

Edited November 15, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

In New York, Alan Yau's new restaurant in the Gramercy Park Hotel will show what can be done in this field.

[Sneakeater]

Yeah, I don't know.  I wouldn't pay 16 dollars for this, especially since I can make something similar at home in less than 10 minutes.    Granted, flank or in this case flatiron, steak is pricey, but still.......

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Just to be clear, I linked that thread to show that WE DON'T THINK SO EITHER.

[Vadouvan]

In New York, Alan Yau's new restaurant in the Gramercy Park Hotel will show what can be done in this field.

Alan Yau I believe also owns Hakkasan and Yauatcha in London which I both have been to several times. Unless he plans to pull a new rabbit out of his hat, I dont see anything to rave about.You can talk it up and dress the room up as much as you want, it's still overpriced chinese food that isnt anywhere close to what you can get in the best of chinatown.

[Capaneus]

I may be missing something, but hasn't Susanna Foo been doing precisely this (charging French prices for haute Chinese) for several decades now?

The value may be open to debate, but the she does fit the model.

[johnb102]

It has been a year since the last post on Susanna Foo in Radnor, and perhaps it should be another year before anyone tries it again.

I had two lunches there over the last 2 weeks. The first was not terrible, just not particularly good. I had the Szechwan Tofu lunch box and it was very boring.

I happened to be near there again yesterday so gave it another try. My wife and I shared steamed vegetable dumplings which were not great but were the highlight of the meal. After that I had the Peking Duck Wrap which was full of hard pieces of dried out duck. And at least I was able to eat mine. My wife's Pad Thai was so salty that she couldn't eat it. They never came back to check on us after delivering the food, so she ended up just asking for it to be taken off the check.

I realized this is not set up to be the same dining experience as the downtown Susanna Foo, but I expected that the food would at least be good.