Humane Society seeks foie gras ban in NY State

[Grub]

Yeah hay, Dave H -- kudos on that post. Excellent stuff. It's refreshing to see someone make such a well thought out, well researched statement, on a tough subject. Nice one. (Off to read Steingarten, now heheh).

Edit: Oh yeah, Steingarten rules:

"...I went out and bought a popular book called What Would Jesus Eat, by Don Colbert, M.D. It was in the Christian Inspiration section of my local Barnes & Noble. There's not a word in it on the foie gras issue. There's nothing about animal cruelty. Or about what Jesus did, in actual point of fact, eat. But I'll bet he never ate pork or lobster, because Jesus was a Jewish person. Colbert guesses that Jesus mostly ate manna. My corner bodega is plumb out of manna...

Edited November 18, 2006 by Grub (log)

[Peter Green]

Dave H.

Excellent, excellent work (plus, I've now got more Steingarten to read!).

I was at one of the WGF dinners in Bangkok this last September when the PETA crowd staged a "protest". These were not, by any means, local people, but "tourists" who had been conducting a number of events in the capitol. In this case, they were not violent, just noisy.

Michael Ginor was on hand in the kitchen, and came out to discuss the matter with them. As always, he is (obviously) very well informed on the matter, and very articulate, and put the case for foie gras and offered the protestors the opportunity to observe his operations at Hudson Valley.

They didn't seem too interested in listening.

I'm afraid that point is that, as with Michael's well-reasoned and presented arguements, research and facts won't have much impact upon these people.

As a related article, read Tony Bourdain's The Nasty Bits. On page 179 starts a four page piece on Food Terrorists, detailing Tony's reaction to the anti-foie gras crowd's attack on Sonoma Saveurs.

[srhcb]

"...I went out and bought a popular book called What Would Jesus Eat, by Don Colbert, M.D. It was in the Christian Inspiration section of my local Barnes & Noble. There's not a word in it on the foie gras issue. There's nothing about animal cruelty. Or about what Jesus did, in actual point of fact, eat. But I'll bet he never ate pork or lobster, because Jesus was a Jewish person. Colbert guesses that Jesus mostly ate manna. My corner bodega is plumb out of manna...

←

What Would Jesus Eat and "what did Jesus eat" are, of course mutually exclusive topics.

Historians can tell us what foods were generally available in the times and region Jesus inhabited, but aside from what fresh fruits, vegetables and dairy products were seasonally avialable, the seafood might be the only thing of interest to present day gourmands of any faith.

On the other hand, if we inject the historical Jesus in the current context it becomes a different matter altogether.

Jesus might very well eat Kosher today, but I suspect (ne: hope) he would respect the dietary customs of other religions, and be nonjudgemental about any food eaten by anybody, anywhere, in the World today?

SB (hopes he was able to skirt the prohibitions on religious subject matter by keeping this in historical conjecture mode?)

DISCLAIMER: SB was baptized in the Serbian Orthodox Church, (to please one Grandmother), and attended Sunday School in the Methodist Church, (to please the other Grandmother), but has not since then attended formal religious services, (save those associated with weddings and funerals), and trys to adhere to the one tenant common to most all faiths of "Do unto others...."

[Claudia Greco]

> Alan Gerson, NYC downtown councilman, is introducing a ban on foie

> gras this

> week. To contact Gerson - or to weigh in with your own Councilman - NYC residents can reach them below. The proposal gores before the NYC City TOMORROW, Tuesday 11/28:

> http://www.nyccouncil.info/constituent/

> (This site allows you to look up your personal district

> representatives and get

> their email addresses and phone numbers.)

>

> Contact Alan Gerson, email gerson@council.nyc.ny.us today!

> Legislative Office Address:

> 250 Broadway, 18th Floor

> NY, NY 10007

> Phone No.: (212) 788-7259

> Fax No.: (212) 788-7727

[Daniel]

Despite the arguement, I just bought a 4 lb block at 30 dollars a lb from Dartagnan.com in the freezer section.. I am so happy.. This will bring my supply up to 7 lbs.. Please talk amongst yourselves..

Does anyone know the process chickens go through to become Capons? Any worse then being over fed?

Edited November 27, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[Sneakeater]

Were you joking?

The process roosters go through to become capons is the same as the process men used to go through to become sopranos.

Considering their lives, it may not be worse than being overfed.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Daniel]

I know the process, I am asking how is it done.. Is there pain numbing medication involved.. I know they dont use stiches or bandages after the procedure...

I have seen what the do to bulls on a farm.. The just cut them off with out much warning or concern.. Or sometimes they wrap a rubber band around the testicles and wait for them to turn black and pretty much fall off..

I dont hear legislation banning Rocky Mountain Oysters..

[Sneakeater]

Give 'em time.

[ghostrider]

It seems that in order to be considered "diseased" the bird's liver would have to be malfunctioning.  Does anyone know it this is the case?

←

It is not. If, instead of being slaughtered, a foie gras bird is put back on a normal diet after the full two weeks of gavage, its liver will shrink back to normal and it will be none the worse for wear. There is no detectable permanent liver damage.

←

I'm not sure that this makes a good case that the bird isn't diseased. It seems easy to make the counter-argument that the bird was diseased during gavage and then returned to health, just as people fall ill and then get well again.

During normal foie gras production, measurements of stress hormones show no change from baseline levels, and measurement of pain signals are low enough to be inconclusive. (To the extent they are raised, they are hypothesized to come from aggravation of the crop following two weeks of frequent feeding.) Total mortality rates, while higher in the final two weeks than in the pre-gavage part of life, are well below those prevailing on typical poultry farms despite over twice as long a lifespan.

In 2004 the American Veterinary Medical Association convened a committee to study the available research on foie gras production, including a visit to an American producer. In 2005, based on the committee's findings, both the original resolution condemning foie gras production and a watered-down version were overwhelmingly voted down by the full membership. This seems a rather unambiguous statement that America's veterinary community does not consider foie gras production to result in disease.

←

These points, on the other hand, seem to be excellent indications that the birds are not diseased.

[johnder]

Everyone,

As we have seen from past threads about foie gras bans, the threads reach a point where it strays off topic -- both for the forum it is in, as well as eGullet in general. It seems this thread has reached that point.

Topics of this nature are always are risky as they evoke strong feelings on everyones side and it is a fine line of determining when a thread ceases being informative and turns into a conduit for off-topic comments.

That said, I am closing this topic as I think everything that needs to be said as of this date has. If someone has something specific they want to contribute to this forum, please PM a moderator and we can consider re-opening it. In the meantime, if you wish to vocalize your specific views for or against the ban, a good person to contact would be the person proposing the ban:

Alan Gerson

gerson@council.nyc.ny.us

Legislative Office Address:

250 Broadway, 18th Floor

NY, NY 10007

Phone No.: (212) 788-7259

Fax No.: (212) 788-7727

If there are specific news items related to this thread, we will periodically update it, such as upcoming votes, news or comments about the ban from representatives or industry experts. If you come across any news related items regarding this possible legislative action, please PM a NY host.

[johnder]

An update on this:

The New York Sun is running a story here saying the ban may be a non-issue, for now.

Council Member Puts Foie Gras Ban Aside For Now

On the verge of introducing legislation tomorrow that would ban foie gras from city restaurants and food markets, a city council member decided to pull in the reins and investigate the matter further. "I'm generally sympathetic to humane issues," the city council member who was proposing the ban, Alan Gerson, said, "but there are a lot of people on both sides of the issue." Mr. Gerson said that a phone call he received from a constituent aided in his decision not to introduce the legislation. ...